"Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior" lol

ugh stereotypes.

the article is true, but it takes it to kind of an extreme. most asian parents are more strict than other parents, but they aren't evil jeez. the part that bugs me is that she doesn't properly explain the thought process that goes behind the actions. yes asian parents are more strict, but there are reasons for it that are dependent on culture... and even then it's not that ridiculously extreme. all it's doing is reinforcing Asians as this stoic, emotionless evil/backwards group of people that have no fun or something. it also makes it sound like our parents are abusive(which is not true). :|

Insulting your children counts as emotional abuse, and children were beaten in Asia. Asian parents believe it is their right to discipline their children any way they see fit, even if such methods are frowned upon. My grandma used to hit me with a feather duster before she died. Thankfully, my parents discontinued the practice.

@Sparky: You could always get a free online NYT subscription, if you like.

As far as the article, I also agree with Brooks' critique, despite the fact that I often disagree with his views on other topics. Social interaction is a really hard thing to learn, although I'm kind of a recluse (or at least quite introverted) and so reflecting on that fact makes me feel kinda awkward.

@On The Other Handle - Yeah, my mom is really really competitive and pressures me into exploiting every loophole possible just so my college resume looks good. Meanwhile, she conveniently projects this obvious flaw onto every mother who isn't her, leading to her belief that everyone is just a Machiavellian hack with no real talent (except me, because I'm wasting my talent), and that Chinese people are automatically successful because their parents make them focus only on academics from the second they're born and take advantage of Affirmative Action.

No, seriously. That's what she believes. Being a hypocritical, obnoxious, arrogant monster isn't just for Asian-American mothers.

There's an article about this mound of stupid i'n the Weekend Australian for Christ sakes!

This really is a mound of stupid.

Seriously why is my country's main paper paying attention to this? It's not as if it's affecting the global community.

Because Yellow Journalism.

Is that a bad joke about it regarding a Chinese mother?

...uh, no.

Yellow journalism. Colloquially it refers to pretty much any pandering to customers in journalism, as a criticism when conversational shitstorms are given more attention than actually important pieces of news.

Trying to be humorous. Don't mind me.

We probably should have a page on Yellow Journalism, I just think if it were a trope page, it would get a lot of Complaining About News Channels You Don't Like.

I remember a week ago when I got the shock of my life where I heard my mum and her friend talking about the "Chinese mothering article"

Stop saying fucking Western. Many European parents are just as demanding of their kids, especially if they are from a former communist country. It's North American parents she's ripping on.

I have to agree with the sentiments in this thread that with strict parents like her, their kids will fail horribly when finally free.

Because that's happening to me right now.

But if by "former communist country" you mean Russia, then it's not quite "Western". The way our textbook talks about the West, at least, is that it's Britain and the US, and Western continental Europe. Eastern Europe isn't always included in "The West". Russia especially seems like a hybrid of East and West.

I'm actually more surprised at how much attention this goofy article has gotten than anything in it.

The problem is, it's not goofy. When I was reading this, I thought it was a brilliant parody on crazy Asian mothering, intentionally exaggerated for the fun of the spoof. But it's not. And that's why it's gotten so much attention.

edited 28th Jan '11 4:56:16 PM by OnTheOtherHandle

Howdy guys, first-time post on the tvtropes forums. Anyways, this is going to be a quick reply to most of the objections raised by others to Chua's style. For background, I am technically Chinese-born, though I grew up in the US and am for all intents and purposes ABC. Some of my 2 cents will come from follow-up pieces. Anyways -

"Her kids are going to hate her/emotionally stunted/unsocialized" Except they clearly don't, as seen in the various follow-up pieces. In fact, her oldest daughter (i think) was interviewed about it. No resentment. In addition, Time did a cover story about it at well, which feature, among other things, psychologists basically coming out and saying that Chua's methods do work. The "Little White Donkey" example that seems to result in collective RAEG is notable in that 1. Chua herself is sharing in her daughter's supposed suffering and 2. It worked. I have to agree with the notion that subpar performance should not be accepted - because everyone (even/especially your kids) are generally looking for the best way to get away with doing less work, and if you accept subpar performance, then that is what you will get later on. This brings me to the next point-

"Kids should not be pushed to do stuff they don't want to/allowed to do the things they want to/what Chua did is abuse" Good in theory, but this falls apart if the kid wants to do something that is not so useful or does not want to do things that are useful. Did anyone want to do their chores when they were a kid? Or their homework? Though I am loathe to place my personal experience and use it as a representative sample of why a general principle is wrong, I will say this: left to my own devices, I would have become a slacker and played video games/watched TV all the time, as well as still being overweight. It is a *good thing* that my parents wouldn't take my crap and made me study/exercise until I internalized the beliefs that 1. I should be a high-achiever and 2. I can achieve highly if I apply myself. On the whole, i would say the focal point isn't "will this make the child feel bad" but "is this something the child should feel bad about." Should I feel bad if I take home a B? Absolutely, if it's something on which I could have gotten an A.

"Model minority" The Model Minority myth does hurt Asians as well as other minority races. That said, the struggle for excellence that the myth encourages is a good thing. You hate Hitler for the Holocaust, not for rebuilding Germany's economy; similarily, the discrimination that comes with Model Minority Myth is to be detested, but the drive for achievement ought to be encouraged. If you have a hard time getting the mainstream society's respect by going above and beyond, you sure won't get any respect by being average.

Overall, I would say it is the results that matter. Chua's kids are clearly not mal-developed, or resentful (barring the occasional outburst that AFAIK occurs at the end of the book that eventually results in compromise), and they clearly are successful individuals. Are they happy? Well, assume a certain degree of happiness derived from yuppy-WASP-success, it follows that total happiness would be less if that yuppy-WASP-success wasn't there. Chua's implementation leaves much to be desired (for one thing, she is overly restrictive in defining which extracurriculars are of use and which activities are of use), but her thought process is on the right track. IRL, "losers" are not "special in their own special way," and the more you can get your kids to think like this http://fuckyeahcouragewolf.tumblr.com/post/143891121/winnig-is-my-habit-whats-yours, the better

Addendum: I too am surprised by the absolute shitstorm this article have kicked up, but this is mostly because I think a lot of what Chua says ought to be common sense - or at least, contain sufficient amounts of recognizable useful stuff that the natural response should be "huh, as a parent, what can I take from this?" Instead all I see is a fixation on less relevant and more sensationalized pieces of the article, as well as soccer-mom-outrage.

Hooo boy. I was wondering when someone raised on this model would come along to defend it. All right, let me get one quick clarification where I'm objectively right, not just subjectively. Hitler's rebuilding Germany's economy is invalid, since he ran it back into the ground again. You're just wrong there, not holding a different opinion.

That said, welcome to the forum.

^^^, ^^ In response, I will post a blog post that I made about topic a while back. Also, I was raised the same way you were, by the way.

NOTICE: I WAS PEEVED WHEN I MADE THIS POST. THEREFORE, IT FEELS LIKE A RANT AND HAS ROUGH EDGES. BUT IT STILL GETS THE POINT ACROSS. SO YEAH.

Anyway, welcome to the forums.

@PRC: The problem is, I get the feeling you weren't raised quite the way Chua claims to have raised her kids. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you weren't, for example, not allowed to have playdates, right? You weren't never, ever allowed to watch TV, right? You had a broader range of choices in what you do with your free time than "violin or piano", right? Your parents pushed you to be the best you could be, but they didn't force you to practice a piece without going to the bathroom, drinking water, or eating, did they?

Because if that's the case, then I was raised the same way. My parents got disappointed when I got a B, but they weren't psychotic about it - and they made sure to tell me they still loved me. They expect me to go above and beyond in math and science, but they don't consider the arts and humanities useless - in fact, they support and encourage me writing stories and painting. And they certainly were never as overwhelmingly and infuriatingly arrogant as Chua is.

I believe the parenting style my parents use is "Sane Asian Parenting". That's not what Chua did. Good for her kids if they don't resent her, but I certainly would have, if she essentially never allowed me to have a friend.

On that note, have you considered that Chua's daughter might not have wanted to tell the press she resents her mom?

Are we still complaining about this stuff? Seriously; she's not that harsh.