Puella Magi Madoka Magica

Multiverse? Since when has there been a multiverse? Homura's time travel seems to prove that Multiverse Theory isn't in play in this series so that can't be it.

I don't think Mental Time Travel is exclusive with Multiple universes. In fact the whole reason Madoka became Godoka is that Homura creature multiple universe all in an attempt to save her IIRC.

Nope. Homura's time travel basically doomed those time lines to having never existed. Since Homura was time travelling for Madoka's sake,this meant that Madoka was responsible for the fate of every single person in the world almost 100 times over. That's what made her karmic destiny so massive.

It's also what made Homura's karmic destiny massive enough to lead to the events of The Rebellion Story (you'll noticed that the same imagery that was used to depict Madoka's karmic destiny was also used to depict Homura at least once).

What basis do you have on the timelines retroactively not existing. I know the manga is dubiously canon but Oriko showed otherwise, and nothing suggests this is the case in the anime at all.

If the manga wasn't made by or confirmed to be canon by the Magia Quartet then it isn't canon.

Also, while it has been a while since I watched the anime, I seem to recall Kyubey stating as much after he had finally figured out what was going on. After all, if Homura was just creating alternate time lines then Madoka's karmic destiny would never increase (at least not as greatly as it did) since only Homura's fate was in her hands.

From the wiki.

"The episode opens with Kyubey talking to Homura in her apartment. He has guessed everything about the nature of Homura's magic and wish, and comments that Madoka's great magical power developed precisely because of that wish. By repeatedly going back in time, Homura inadvertently caused the creation of several parallel universes centered around Madoka; the accumulation of karma from each timeline manifested itself as Madoka's magical power. In this manner, Kyubey says, Homura has created an "ultimate witch."

So it was the creation NOT the destruction of the timelines that had that effect on Madoka.

Madoka in her wish wants to erase witches from all "universes". Madoka's power comes the connection all those timelines into hers and there are shown to be difference at the starting point in some timelines.

They even show a visual of several bits of string (representing timelines) wound up around Homura and Madoka, string that wouldn't still exist by your logic.

...

Maybe I should just stick to character analysis since I'm always wrong about everything else.

So did Madoka unite all the parallel universes? Did she fix them all, but keep them separate? Or was she only able to save her own universe, leaving the others to go about their business? Questions questions.

So I recently watched Fate Zero. Now I have a strange desire to cross it over with Madoka. Both are Urobuchi works, so I'm sure it would all work out.

We actually discussed such a crossover in the Nasuverse fanfiction thread a while ago. If I recall correctly (which I probably don't since I'm almost always wrong about these things), it was decided that the Puellaverse magic simply couldn't work in Nasuverse terms. We debated having the girls be the summoners and even having them be Servants but nothing really seemed to work unless you were willing to make drastic changes.

Unless you wanted to just take the characters and drop them into the other setting without any rhyme or reason in which case... okay.

Give the girls the Servants and explain it via time travel/reality warping/magic shenanigans/the Grail is a dick/etc. Trying to stay consistent with Nasuverse rules is an effort in futility.

But then you'd have to explain how the girls managed to summons Servants in the first place if this is using MadoMagi's setting. If you're using the Nasuverse as a setting then both Homura's and Kyouko's entire personalities will be changed since they're tied to the rules of the setting.

Even if you did just yoink the girls out of their world, you'll need to come up with a reason for them to summon the Servants which requires them getting catalysts. They can't just accidentally summon them since the ritual is too complicated without extenuating circumstances (like the one Shirou was in when he summoned Saber). You'd also have to give them a reason to fight each other. While Kyouko and Homura would likely go for the Grail on their own without care; Sayaka, Mami, and especially Madoka would never fight the other girls (assuming they even wanted the Holy Grail in the first place).

And this is all assuming that they could even summon a Servant in the first place. Nasuverse magic works in a manner that's extremely different from MadoMagi magic and while you probably could power a summoning circle with a Soul Gem if you had the right know how, none of the girls posses that. Even if they did manage to summon a Servant using their Soul Gems, there's no guarantee that the Servant would be getting prana from them (that depends on whether the Grail considers the Soul Gem to be the Master or the body the Soul Gem is manipulating). Even if the Soul Gem does provide prana to the Servant then the girls are doomed since they'll have a constant drain on their magic with no Grief Seeds to counteract the effect. They'd turn into Witches eventually and then their Servants would just curb stomp them.

edited 30th Apr '15 7:49:16 PM by Zelenal

I'm never going to write this, but if we're going this route...

It would be set in the Puella verse, with the Grail and Servants being summoned in Mitakihara because reasons. Maybe Madoka's wish in the last cycle caused it? In which case the rules are screwed anyway. Servants get summoned to the girls near Madoka with magic potential because magic and Madoka breaks rules. The MadoSayaMami trio are of course heroic good guys who would never harm an innocent soul (at least at first), but the other four not so much.

As for maintaining the Servants, my idea was that the Servants feed off the accumulating despair in the Grief Seeds (since that's magic too, and the Grail likes depressing stuff), which makes the magical girls immune to witchification. Which would make everyone really happy and frees them to go all out more. As for who gets who:

• Saber: Homura. Completely incompatible, which is the norm for Saber.
• Archer: Madoka. Guy with the god complex meets the goddess herself. Simultaneously the strongest and weakest team.
• Lancer: Mami. Leftovers mostly, plus they'd probably enjoy each other's company.
• Rider: Sayaka. In a twist of fate, Sayaka gets someone who can knock some sense into her.
• Berserker: Nagisa. They go best with the cuties.
• Caster: Kyoko. Religious connections.
• Assassin: Oriko. Work well in the shadows, and Kirika would blend in relatively well with them.

Not particularly well defined, but it's fun as a thought experiment. And after reading a Yuru Yuri and Fate/Zero crossover of all things, I'm convinced nothing is impossible if you put in the effort.

Nasuverse mage society is sufficiently a ball of dicks that if you wanted to have meguca show up as mages you could plausibly give them backstories that keep their crippling mental issues intact.

Madoka characters who don't start out as mages could find a spellbook and do one of the rituals on a lark, a la Ryuunosuke but with less "blood of your victims." Since Madoka, Sayaka, and Hitomi are friends you could have them all get involved through the same book.

(I tend to take "That premise wouldn't work" as a challenge.)

Or that.

Except none of those are good reasons. "This happens just because it does" is a terrible excuse for any sort of story element and this is especially true when tackling works like the Nasuverse were there's an insane amount of detail in regards to basically everything. There's absolutely no reason I can see for Madoka's wish to suddenly result in the Holy Grail and the Throne of Heroes to appear in the Puellaverse. Even if they did, pulling the Throne of Heroes means pulling The Root and pulling The Root means pulling all of the Nasuverse rules so we're back to square one.

Seeing as how Grief Seeds should just be souls, Servants could certainly feed off them. It's not like most Witches would ever even begin to challenge a Servant in the first place (Walpurgisnaght would have no hope of killing a Servant but it would likely take an Anti-Fortress Noble Phantasm for them to kill her). The girls wouldn't become immune to turning into Witches but it would certainly drastically slow the process down since they'd have no reason to use magic (although despair could still do them in).

As for your Servant choices, ignoring how they got the catalysts in the first place and assuming you're referring to the Fate/stay night Servants:

• Saber: Not true. Saber was a perfect match for Shirou. Sure, they clashed sometimes but the compatibility boost was basically the only boost Saber got from her summoning.
• Archer: Maybe. He'd certainly handle the Mitakihara Grail War much differently then he would the Fuyuki Grail War. I'm not entirely sure if their interactions would be interesting or not, though. However, having Madoka be in her goddess form wouldn't be a good idea, I think.
• Lancer: Hmm... Maybe? Lancer could likely get along with most people but nothing about Mami stands out as making him particularly compatible with her.

I don't really have anything to say about the other except Oriko and that's because there's just something about the Oriko manga that rubs me the wrong way.

Oh, keeping their mental issues in the Nasuverse wouldn't be too hard. We actually spent a while discussing how Kyouko's backstory would play out and we came up with the idea that she'd become a Church Executor. Sayaka's is actually almost completely removed for the inner workings of the 'Verse so getting her problems to work would be child's play. Mami is basically a female and friendless Shirou so something could be worked out for her. The only real problem is Homura since her entire personality came about due to her magic and time travel is a Sorcery. I'd be hesitant to give Homura the Second Magic. Kyuubey would have to just disappear but we could replace him with Kotomine easily enough.

Getting the girls to work in the Nasuverse wouldn't be too hard. The only thing is that you'd have to make massive changes to their backstories, some changes to their personalities, and come up with a reason for them to find out about and participate in the Holy Grail War.

I never said it was impossible, I just said that it'd be really difficult. If done well, it would actually be rather interesting.

Also, I believe that the best way to get this to work is to move the MadoMagi characters to the Nasuverse.

EDIT: Actually, Sayaka is basically a female Shirou in terms of her Hero Complex but Mami's is closer in regards to backstory.

As for who would get what Servant, we actually did a lot of discussion about that. I'm tempted to go thread diving for it. I think we decided these pairings:

• Madoka - Archer or Saber
• Homura - Archer, Caster, or Avenger
• Mami - Archer or Rider (can't remember why)
• Kyouko - Lancer (this one is obvious)
• Sayaka - Archer (he just goes with everyone) or Saber. Maybe Caster.
• Nagisa - Berserker

We also decided that Caster would likely summon Assassin again.

Personally, I'd use the following:

• Madoka - Archer
• Homura - Caster
• Mami - Rider
• Kyouko - Lancer
• Sayaka - Saber
• Nagisa - Berserker

edited 30th Apr '15 9:15:16 PM by Zelenal

Crossover with Zero, not stay Night. It's the Urobuchi connection that got me thinking after all. And again, I'm not writing anything. If I were I'd actually put in effort and be making up something that looked alright on paper. Though considering Nasuverse complexity I'd likely be ignoring most of the finer details as long as the general lore stays intact. Stuff like the Root just goes over my head.

Gil/Madoka interactions actually interest me the most of my proposal. Assuming he takes interest in her (which would be its own challenge), would he influence her the same way he did Kotomine?

Lancer/Mami were just the last ones left after everyone else was paired up. He doesn't need to go with anyone in particular. Whereas Homura/Saber would probably just be funny.

Most of all, the important thing is making things interesting. I see more potential in interesting story potential with say, Kyoko/Gilles Caster than Diarmuid. The justification comes later.

Now if we're looking at what classes the girls would be, Homura is definitely Assassin (yes I know there's complicated lore stuff with that class, don't care). She's a sneaky one after all.

I know you're not planning on writing this but I like working these details out anyway.

Going off of the Zero Servants, Gilgamesh wouldn't give two shits about Madoka. Or anyone in the cast, for that matter. The best Madoka could hope to do would be avoid getting herself killed. He might be mildly interesting in Homura. Maybe.

Likewise, Caster wouldn't work well with anyone. None of the girls would keep him around for very long and he wouldn't like them, either. Whoever summons him is likely to die.

Saber is still Saber, even if she's acting as a Knight rather than herself like in FSN. I still think Sayaka would likely be her best bet.

I'd pair Rider with either Madoka or Moemura since that'd get the most interesting results.

I couldn't really imagine this Lancer being too terribly interesting with anyone.

Assassin can just be summoned by Kotomine again.

Heh, the Nasuverse is often crossed with Madoka, probably due to Gen writing Fate Zero and all that.

Though, I always saw Sayaka as being what he would've done to Saber had canon not dictated otherwise.

Word of God is that when Homura leaves a timeline, it keeps existing without her. Also, Madoka's wish said that she wanted to erase every witch is every Universe. Also, Madokami said that she was in every Universe, even ones that don't actually exist.

As such, she is not merely Unversal, she is omniversal.

Yes, yes, I was wrong. I got it.

Anyway, going back to the crossover, I think that it'd be better to use the Servants from the 5th Holy Grail War (FSN) rather than the 4th. Aside from being a lot easier to place the Servants, I think their personalities would make for much better character dynamics. Caster would likely take interest in Homura's single-minded determination and I could see her mentoring the young girl but who would be affected the most by their relationship remains to be seen. Mami with Rider I honestly can't say much about due to having not read Heaven's Feel but something tells me that there's great potential there. Kyouko with Lancer would be fantastic since I could see them getting along fantastically and making an excellent team.

I'm also tempted to switch out Madoka and Sayaka. If Sayaka summoned Archer, not only would Archer sympathize with Sayaka's desires, he may also be able to temper her in such a way as to avoid her fate. Meanwhile, Madoka stands a good chance of getting Saber to see the value in herself, I think. If it were the way I originally stated, I don't think too much would be gotten out of it.

Also, Nagisa will either have to summon Assassin or be made into a secondary character like Issei or Fujimura. An Einzbern homunculus is needed and it may as well be Illya.

All these Madoka/Fate series crossover is making my head ache. Honestly, Magic in the Fate series is weird and complicated.

Complicated? Yes. Very much so. Weird? Not really.

Okay, less weird. Then again, I'm not really well-versed in the Fateverse, having only watched FSN, so yeah.

That would certainly be a problem, especially if it was only the original anime rather than the recent one. In the time it takes to fully learn and understand Magecraft, you could probably learn, or at least make good headway on learning, a real life craft.