I don't think Kyouko even indicates that she thinks all Witches come from Familiars. Witches come from Curses. And sometimes Familiars can kill things and become a Witch.
edited 28th Jan '15 4:12:43 PM by unnoun
Kyubey tells a part of the truth and relies on them to fill in the wrong details. Kyubey compares witches being being born from curses to how magical girls are born from a wish. A witch is born after all when a girl falls into despair and starts to curse the world.
edited 28th Jan '15 6:42:44 PM by higurashimerlin
When life gives you lemons, burn life's house down with the lemons.
World's Cutest Direwolf
Magical girls born from witches? I don't understand what you mean.
Typo. Wishes and witches sound very similar in my head.
When life gives you lemons, burn life's house down with the lemons.
World's Cutest Direwolf
Oh god that makes so much more sense now. I racked my poor brain trying to figure out where you were you getting witch-spawned meguca from.
Hm. I could certainly see Kyubey saying that, but I'm not clear on why Kyouko would make the jump from "witches come from curses" to "witches come from familiars."
edited 28th Jan '15 7:45:42 PM by rikalous
To answer an earlier question, I actually got into this series a couple of weeks after it had finished airing, since I had heard all the acclaim it received, read multiple peoples analysis of the themes and symbolism, and followed the episode coverage that bloggers were giving it.
I finally decided to give it a whirl, and if it wasn't for my computer's monitor glitching out, I would have marathoned the entire show in one afternoon. Needless to say, it gave me the same experience I had watching (what else? XD) The Matrix for the first time; it hooked me right from the beginning and made me a fan immediately. That, and it made me start analyzing it almost immediately after the first episode.
In short, it was one heck of an experience.
So now that it's been over a year since Rebellion was released, and with the dub coming out for it, how well do you think it has fared? Is it still a good film in retrospect, or do you fall more in lines of this guy:
"This is one of the worst films I have ever seen. It not only has the worst pacing I've seen in a long time, it was devoid of any emotional impact and was far too much of a cluster-fuck for a majority of the film to give any proper stakes. The info-dumping to justify its existence was laughable and the ending literally one of the most inconsistent nonsensical things I have ever seen. Just HOW did it happen? Don't pretend the ending makes sense because they never explain/infer. It's pretentious as well because despite including those themes, it doesn't build upon it or say anything meaningful. It's sequel bait designed for money."
Why do you keep throwing scathing reviews by idiots who don't understand anything at us?
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
...That's a little harsh.
I don't mind critique. Even harsh, perhaps slightly unfair critique. So long as it comes from a position of knowing what the hell you're talking about.
For instance, things not from anyone who ever uses the word "pretentious" as an insult or criticism.
Everything needs to be more pretentious.
Maximum pretension.
By default, I tend not to like people who say things don't make sense. It reminds me of climate change deniers or creationists.
What it's actually saying is "I'm too thick to understand it". Or, "I'm too stubborn to try to understand it".
It always seems like the blame for not understanding is being placed on the people who do understand it.
Case in point.
Rebellion defies analysis.
Can anyone tell me a good synonym for defiance?
edited 30th Jan '15 5:47:39 AM by unnoun
L Dragon keeps showing us these "reviews" and asking us what we think. We continually reply that they are really stupid and explain why. The process repeats ad nauseum. I want to know what the point of this process is.
Just trying to show the more critical viewpoint of the series, and to not just show one side of the spectrum.
edited 30th Jan '15 6:08:43 AM by LDragon2
You're not, though.
You're showing angry nerds on the internet who don't actually understand the basics of narrative or discourse.
There are plenty of actual criticisms that could be made.
This is a more valid criticism than anything you've shown us. I still don't agree with it, but it comes from someone that has seemingly actually put some thought and reflection into their viewpoint.
If you want random stream-of-consciousness thoughts, try something more like a liveblog or frame by frame analysis of a single scene but not just people ranting about how x "doesn't make sense".
I mean, the assumption that things have to make sense to be of value is a vile one. It's one of the major problems with the Incubators.
The fact that we can explain a sunset isn't what makes it pretty. And our continued lack of understanding of various aspects of the world says a lot more about us than it does it.
I'm a scientist. I think trying to learn or understand things is valuable.
Saying something "doesn't make sense" is the opposite of that. It's giving up.
You were better off posting Metal Gear Rising videos.
edited 30th Jan '15 6:23:21 AM by unnoun
Very well then. It's just that online, those sorts of comments are apparently viewed as being "objective".
On a more upbeat note, here's a much more entertaining and positive review.
Claims of things not making sense mean a lot more when they're explained and when they're coming from an actual expert in the field.
Like, the University of Florida's PhD program is home to one of the world's foremost experts in Scrooge Mc Duck comics. The fact that there's such a thing is part of the reason I admire humanities scholars so much, and feel really bad that they get such a bad rap. But anyway. If he says something in a Ducktales comic doesn't make sense it means a lot more and has a heck of a lot more weight behind it than if it came from some guy on the internet.
And, of course, there's varying levels of expertise. I've watched shows with people with more training in biology than I do and when I didn't think something made sense they were sometimes able to come up with explanations.
edited 30th Jan '15 7:56:31 AM by unnoun
That's because negativity is interpreted as intelligence. They're trying to sound smart, and the easiest way to do that is to act like an Insufferable Genius. If they do it aggressively enough, most people won't notice how shallow their criticism actually is.
edited 30th Jan '15 1:37:17 PM by Kotomikun
What they said. I'm perfectly capable of accepting criticism, as long as it's intelligent criticism (note, this requires people to point out examples, justify their points, compare and contrast, be specific etc. rather than making broad, general, sweeping statements without real meaning). I'm even capable of supplying criticism of the show myself. I respect the show enough to do that.
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
Okay, part of me is wondering, would this be a good theme for Homura, if not now, then at some point in her future?
I know that someone set Homura's Homulilly transformation to Komm, Susser todd, but I can't find the video.
Regarding Madoka criticism, the thing that stands out to me is that the characters are all kind of dumb. Any 14 year old I know would have questioned Kyubey's motive before deciding to trust him. I would think Homura would have change her methods long before reaching the ten year mark on her time loops.
When life gives you lemons, burn life's house down with the lemons.
That's a pretty common one (enough that I got deja vu writing the rest of this), but it strikes me as the typical "but I'd never be that dumb, therefore, this is dumb" reaction to characters making bad decisions.
Real people make dumb or shortsighted decisions all the time. Especially when they're dying (Mami), living in poverty (Kyouko), in love with someone who needs help they can't provide (Sayaka), or just watched all their friends die (Homura), and someone waltzes in with a seemingly perfect solution.
Madoka is the most naive by far, but even she's reluctant to make a contract for something as silly as, say, cake. She and Sayaka, lacking an urgent reason to do anything, actually do ask a lot of questions... to Mami, because they trust her more than Kyubey, but unfortunately she's not as knowledgeable as she seems.
Homura does change her tactics a few times, but none of it works, and she kinda gets into a rut. She's not powerful enough to stop Walpurgis and lacks the charisma to get everyone else to team up to fight it. (Plus she accidentally turned Madoka into a time bomb, so, one less team member.) You can do the latter in the Visual Novel, I think.
Madoka is the daughter of a business woman and never thought to question what Kyubey gains from her killing witches. Homura's change in tactics are mostly more weapons and fight by myself. If she had the time to gain millions of dollars worth of weapons, she could have gain more charisma or learn more information then what she learned just from trying something a little different.
People make mistakes but not things kinds of mistakes. It wasn't a mistake for Mami to contract since she had no other options but she had no reason to trust Kyubey. Neither did Kyouko who would likely think about deals with the devil.
I would ask these questions and so would you.
When life gives you lemons, burn life's house down with the lemons.
Kyubey is cute. Madoka seems to like cute things. Sayaka definitely does, with how she goes on and on about "moe".
Sayaka and Mami seem like they've actually watched Magical Girl shows before. Madoka probably has too, frankly. If only because she was with Sayaka.
Kyouko was starving.
Don't make assumptions.
And the characters aren't us.
edited 5th Feb '15 6:34:00 AM by unnoun
Contracted given this? Yes. Trust? Probably not.
No one would look at Kyubey and just trust it. I mean he is clearly not human and there is no reason to think he is trust worthy. No one I know would. If they had made an actual misstep in judging him and incorrectly thought he could be trusted then that is something that could actually happen. But they just trust him.
On another issue. Why didn't Madoka ever bring her dream up again? She saw Kyubey, Homura and Walpurgisnaught and then magic turns out to be real the next day.
When life gives you lemons, burn life's house down with the lemons.
Kyubey is a rather harmless looking critter who's also quite cute. The only strange thing about it is that it speaks without opening its mouth, but that's neither here or there.
Anyway, Madoka and Sayaka took Kyubey's word as it was because Mami was backing it up. Mami didn't have much of a choice when she made a contract, so she essentially made a gamble on Kyubey. Kyoko wanted to have a better life for her family, and though she was probably aware of making a deal with a devil, she thought that her wish would help her family and spread her father's teachings to the world, so again, another gamble.
In a way, Sayaka was right about her and Madoka not being worthy of being given the chance to have their wishes granted. Heck, I'd say only Sayaka was the unworthy one, since aside from wanting Kyosuke's injuries healed, she had nothing worthwhile to wish for.
@higurashi: Coobie is not known to speak untruths. What true thing could he have said to deceive Kyouko into thinking familiars grew into witches if they did not?