Philosophy aaah keep it away from my face
But yeah. Is a tricky one. On the one hand, lie. On the other hand, comfort.
Song of the Sirens
Madoka's world is great. No witches and magical girls who's soul gems run out don't even die but go to Madoka's world. Serious if you still exist then you really aren't dead and Nagisa applied that they can still die.
When life gives you lemons, burn life's house down with the lemons.
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![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
And don't forget, Homura knows full well the illusion can't last forever.
But, don't forget life expectancy for a magical girl is still only a few years. It's loads better than what came before, but being a meguca even after Madoka's reforms still means a relatively short life.
edited 25th Jul '14 4:40:04 PM by SabresEdge
Charlie Stross's cheerful, optimistic predictions for 2017, part one of three.
Revy Gonna Give It To Ya
Yeah I really think people who go "Homura's world is objectively a better place than Madoka's" are full of shit, frankly.
These are the words that shall come from my mouth. I shall be known for speaking them.
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
Madoka's world wasn't perfect, but nothing is.
At the least, I believe that if there was anything that could be done to make things better, she would have worked towards it.
Homura's world is more comforting on the surface, but it's been flat out said it can't last.
So I ask all of you: Which do you prefer?
An imperfect world that can be improved upon, or a perfect world that will completely fall apart eventually?
......The answer is the first one.
I'd like to see someone argue against me now. Mwa ha ha ha ha!!!!
One Strip! One Strip!
Subjectively it's a better world
Objectively it is not.
It's easy enough to say that you'd choose the harsh world over the peaceful world, but if one actually had to make that choice, it would not be easy at all.
edited 25th Jul '14 4:44:35 PM by asterism
Song of the Sirens
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Counterpoint: Kyubey gets to do whatever he wants in Madoka's world. In Homura's world, he is screwed.
Yes, I maaaay be enjoying Kyubey's fate a bit too much. What of it?
Charlie Stross's cheerful, optimistic predictions for 2017, part one of three.
It's funny how people keep insisting Homura's world isn't sustainable, when Madoka's world is the one that got upended and sealed inside a giant dream-bubble.
It probably won't last forever, because nothing does, but Homura doesn't plan on giving up; "I will continue to wish for a world where you can be happy." Madoka isn't going to stay powerless forever, either, so anything could happen.
The coober may be a manipulative sociopath, but he was trying to save the universe. Who cares if the pawns get sacrificed? As long as you win the game; cus that's all that counts.
Song of the Sirens
Revy Gonna Give It To Ya
Madoka's world was based around preserving hope for the entire world. Homura's world is based on her own skewed interpretation of what Madoka wants. That everyone is is happy is merely Cosmological Reaganomics.
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
Now, nobody hates Kyuubey as much as me. I was literally frothing with rage whenever anybody defended him, so believe me, I know where you are coming from.
But if your revenge requires you to completely fuck everyone else in the ass, then maybe your kinda sorta doing it wrong.
Now, admittedly, there's no evidence that this will happen to Homura's world, but considering that Madoka's world didn't last, I refuse to believe that anyone involved with this series would end it with Madoka sucks! So lets just let Homura turn everything tits up without any consequences.
If there is one thing I've learned about Urobuchi, it's that he tears down everything. Not just idealism.
....well, ok, he didn't really do anything to indicate that Kyouko's Survival of the Fittest philosophy was wrong.....and she only died when she started caring for others again........
Shit.
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Actually I suspect that Kyubey's not telling the whole truth there. The stars will be burning for a long, long time, after all; the universe has trillions of years to go before entropy levels everything. Plus, Kyubey seems rather picky about his targets, and he does have a quota.
All of which makes me think that Kyubey is only telling half the truth about using the energy gained to patch the walls in reality. My theory is this: he's actually an infovore, an ice giant: those who have read the Laundry Files have a good idea what I'm thinking of. Imagine a creature so vast that it can reach out and touch any part of the universe, vast enough to suck the energy out of stars and to change the physical laws of a universe simply by existing, godlike in its scale and its power. Now...such a creature must feed. Snacking on the universe, increasing entropy as the infovore drains the energy out of it, speeding its decay, would be one way, but then it'd starve when maximum entropy is reached.
But...what if there were an alternate, renewable source? Kyubey already seems to imply the magic generated by wishes and then by turning into a witch is incredibly vast; it'd have to be, to be worthwhile in a universal context. There's no shortage of humans to generate wishes, so many that the infovore can afford to be picky and target only a specific demographic. (That it doesn't seem to fully understand emotions and how they work is irrelevant against the fact that it's getting a lot of nice, juicy energy out of it.) If it drained the energy out of the universe, that's only one meal before everything undergoes heat death; but as long as it cultivates a planet of humans, it gets a nearly inexhaustable supply of meals.
So, under this scenario, Kyubey would only be telling half the truth when he says he uses the energy gained to stave off entropy. The other half of the truth is that he's using it to feed himself. If he doesn't have that source of wishes, he'd be forced to consume more and more of reality to maintain himself, and that'd really speed up the heat death of the universe. But, under this arrangement, he stays fed, and the universe gets to live out its normal lifespan.
Of course, under the Madoka reforms, Kyubey still gets his share of the energy; humans/megucas just have it a little easier. What arrangements there are to feed him under Homura's 'verse are left unanswered...but I wouldn't be surprised if Homura decides that sucking the energy out of a few cubic lightyears to maintain her barrier would be an acceptable trade.
Supporting evidence: pretty much none, except that the mathematics for energy output and input according to Kyubey seems somewhat suspect. Also, Kyubey claiming to act altruistically is automatically suspect in my book.
edited 25th Jul '14 5:06:04 PM by SabresEdge
Charlie Stross's cheerful, optimistic predictions for 2017, part one of three.
Consider the magical girls in where ever it is they go when their souls gem become corrupted. They don't have to worry about witchdom. They have the power of their witch and can probably sustain themselves forever as long as they don't go on dangerous missions like Sayaka and Nagisa. So in others words for most of them they have become immortal. I say that makes Madoka's world a million times better than the original.
When life gives you lemons, burn life's house down with the lemons.
And her highly accurate pictures of what everyone else wants. Actually, she seems to have a very good idea of what Madoka wants for herself, but doesn't understand that she's happier giving up what she wants for herself in order to help others. Ironic, really.
Both worlds are nice in some ways and depressing in others, but Madoka's is much closer to reality, so people feel justified in saying it's "objectively better," whatever that means. It's realistic, but completely rejects individual happiness, favoring self-sacrifice... so, naturally, Homura's world shows up to bring unrealistic happiness.
It feels fake. But what does that mean? Emotions aren't real to begin with. They're... magic. Literally, in this case. The world is what it is. I don't think Homura's world is any more of an illusion than Madoka's. "Who has dreamt?"
edited 25th Jul '14 5:10:24 PM by Kotomikun
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Pretty much. I'm refraining from answering the "which is better?" question; that's down to personal preference. Both 'verses have their weaknesses; both are an improvement over Kyubey's energy racket. As it is, though, the current configuration is not sustainable for perpetuity. Something's going to change, and it'll be interesting to see what comes of it. (Actually, based on history, less 'hm, that's interesting', and more 'oh god Shaft why'. But interesting nonetheless.)
Charlie Stross's cheerful, optimistic predictions for 2017, part one of three.
Revy Gonna Give It To Ya
It's because I feel Homura's actions were outright wrong. I don't think she had the right to say Madoka's sacrifice wasn't worth it.
These are the words that shall come from my mouth. I shall be known for speaking them.
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
True dat.
Yeah....but her way of living was never really proved wrong. It was working for her pretty damned well. And it only failed when she stopped only caring about herself, and started caring for others again.
One Strip! One Strip!
Queen of Good Things, Honest
That she latched onto Sayaka so quickly could be considered the flaw in her philosophy. Living your life going, "Only I matter, screw everyone else!" eventually gets lonely. Humans are social creatures; we crave companionship, and when that desire gets pent up, it can explode in a variety of ways.
In Sayaka's case, it took her, like, a day to go from, "I intend to kill Sayaka," to "Sayaka's my BFF forever, I will die for her!" How quickly and how thoroughly Kyoko became devoted to Sayaka suggests that, like Mami, she is intensely lonely.
For a social creature, Survival of the Fittest is far easier said than done. Kyoko's lifestyle wound up being unmade by the human desire for a fulfilling life over a long, empty, and miserable one.
edited 25th Jul '14 6:02:41 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
I didn't really get the impression that Homu's world was an illusion, so much as it is that her familiars are monitoring the place. I saw it more like Homura simply switched places with Madoka.
Queen of Good Things, Honest
Homura's world is inside her Witch Barrier. We see her Barrier expand to encompass the universe. It's still a labyrinth, it's just a larger one than has ever been recorded.
At the end of Rebellion, everyone is effectively where they were at the beginning of Rebellion, except now Homura is in conscious control.
edited 25th Jul '14 6:05:27 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
Sounds pretty badass
Er- I mean...bad Homu! Bad!
It seems more like a patch on the world than a rewrite. Everything has already "happened" - Sayaka has Oktavia and Madoka is a goddess, still.
She's got an array of powerful beings against her, so I doubt it'll last a significant amount of time.
World's Cutest Direwolf
I don't see it lasting, not because it's necessarily unstable so much as the sequels must flow!
In Sayaka's case, it took her, like, a day to go from, "I intend to kill Sayaka, " to "Sayaka's my BFF forever, I will die for her!" How quickly and how thoroughly Kyoko became devoted to Sayaka suggests that, like Mami, she is intensely lonely.
For a social creature, Survival of the Fittest is far easier said than done. Kyoko's lifestyle wound up being unmade by the human desire for a fulfilling life over a long, empty, and miserable one.
Though, the fact that the new world is basically an illusion kind of makes it all pointless.
It does raise a good question though; is it better to live in blissful denial or to suffer through reality?