If an image that actually illustrates the trope can't be found, I would rather have Wesley as an image than nothing. I won't shoot down an image that somehow demonstrates the trope but I have no idea how that would even work without the image containing a ton of text in it.
Lost in Space
After all this is done, it would probably be a good idea to start an Image Pickin' thread for Creator's Pet. I have a feeling that Wesley will still win easily, but I could be wrong.
Any objections to the new description in the Sandbox?
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Lost in Space
Okay, well, I am going to assume, absent further comment on this, that my new definition is good and start moving stuff.
Again, Sandbox.Creators Pet.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
I don't think it needs the scrappy element to qualify. We can do this with "creator really liked this character". The last three criteria are objective, but the first one, scrappy, isn't.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Hi
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
It looks good to me, nice job.
edited 26th Oct '11 12:34:50 PM by Willbyr
Lost in Space
@crazysamaritan: This is a subjective trope, and always has been. The character has to be disliked (The Scrappy) otherwise it falls under different tropes. We did not have a vote to change the definition.
edited 26th Oct '11 12:39:42 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Lost in Space
Okay, this one is going to take a lot of work. I have completed the following:
- Description pasted from Sandbox to main Creator's Pet article.
- Examples list moved from The Wesley, although it isn't actually a list; it's an index of subpages (more later).
- Discussion moved from The Wesley.
- Trope Namer section moved to Live Action TV, as it's no longer applicable.
- The Wesley redirected.
- Playing With and Laconics moved and the originals cutlisted.
- All indexes listing The Wesley updated.
What's left to do:
- Renaming the The Wesley namespace and transplanting all the subpages.
- Merging Shilling the Wesley into the various Creator's Pet subpages.
- Wick cleanup for both tropes.
This is more than I can handle myself. Help please! 
edited 28th Oct '11 9:57:16 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Can I just make a little suggestion for the sandpox page? The compare/contrast paragraph is kind of hard to read, could there be a space between the compared tropes and the contrased tropes? Just so there's not such a condensed list of links that sorta run together.
Other than that, I think it's great! :> And yeah, keep The Scrappy in there. With YMMV it shouldn't cause an issue.
[The rest was unintelligible.]
Lost in Space
I'll fix that.
Update:
- I did the first two subpages; the rest will have to wait for the afternoon.
- Shilling the Wesley has been redirected, indexes are updated, and subpages moved or cut as appropriate.
- The examples in Shilling the Wesley are now in Sandbox.Shilling The Wesley. They need to be merged.
Lost in Space
Okay, subpages done. Whew. Need wick cleanup now and that examples merge.
Oh, yes, and there's that "character shilling" trope to YKTTW. Need a volunteer to do that.
edited 28th Oct '11 1:08:58 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Well, I guess I can get that. What are we generally going for on that? When Informed Attribute is used to establish someone quickly and the characters are all generally highly impressed with the person before we see why?
Lost in Space
I was thinking more along the lines of any time characters talk up how great another character is, without necessarily having said greatness be apparent in the work. So it is related to Informed Attribute, but not entirely that. It is generally caused by the writers wanting the audience to like the character.
In fact, that may be the trope we're aiming for: the writers having characters talk up another character as a means of persuading the audience to like them. One of the reasons that Shilling the Wesley entered TRS in the first place was that it was getting Trope Decayed into this broader definition.
edited 28th Oct '11 2:21:15 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
I want to keep it an objective trope if possible, so having something in the description about the writers doing it so people will like them seems like a bit of a bad idea. I was thinking I could write the YKTTW to focus around the of 'Characters frequently talk about how great character or do so at length X is at Y whether or not X is actually seen to perform better than characters A, B and C.' And maybe something about how it can be used to quickly establish a character.
I see the Awesomeness.
Yeah, basing things on authorial intent is a fast track to YMMV or Word of God only examples. While you can define Shilling A Character as a subtrope of Informed Attribute and violating Show, Don't Tell, trying to get anything related to authorial intent is going to destroy any objectivity.
Fight smart, not fair.
Lost in Space
Alright, per consultation with the other moderators, I'm going to close this thread and make a Special Efforts for getting all the wicks cleaned up. Go ahead and start that YKTTW for Shilling A Character. Thanks, all!
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Crown Description:
Shilling The Wesley is supposed to be about shilling characters that are reviled by the fanbase (hence the trope's name containing a reference to The Wesley), but it is misused to mean shilling any character, hated or not. Related: The term "The Wesley" is character-based and is not in common use as we define it. TV Tropes is, in fact, the originator of the term as we use it. Note: The TRS thread and crowner for The Wesley are here
.
Okay on the quote. The image was selected by Image Pickin', but it applied to The Wesley. I suppose we can see if a better one works, but it's hard to imagine how one can get anything other than JAFAAC out of this trope.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"