Extra Credits

I just can't believe the Japanese kept falling into the exact same trap. They might not have had the same amount of experience at naval warfare that the Koreans did, but luring and ambushing aren't exactly tactics that are exclusive to the sea.

But it is different at the sea. I don't know exactly how the Koreans pulled it off, but it is much harder, for example, to hid ships in open sea. Maybe because of that, the Japanese simply didn't see the harm in pursuing for a bit, figuring they could just turn around as soon as they saw the enemy in the horizon, but then got caught in the currents or something. I know little to nothing about naval warfare, but sailing is not that easy, so just a small mistake could take the Japanese farther then they expected with a hard time to double back.

Also, it is important to remember that the Japanese did not necessarily fall to the same trap more than once. After all, each small navy was commanded by a different person, who might simply not have heard in details(or at all) how Yi caught the previous ones. Communication was a big problem back in that time. It was just much latter that Hideyoshi realized what was happening and relied the appropriate orders.

A new chapter in Yi's story:

I think the take away from all of this is that Yi should have staged a coup and took control of the country for himself. Everyone would be better for it.

Yi managed to get that island of his productive enough to supply his forces, without the government giving significant help. I can almost imagine that playing out like the opening minutes of just about any RTS.

"You there, get to work on that gold mine! You there, start building a dock! Town Center, start training more Villagers!"

It's certainly fascinating to see this laid out; as it was alluded to before, I'm mostly familiar with this through the Ao EII campaign, also the Civ5 scenario.

I think it's worth noting though that the reason that the Japanese kept falling for the traps is that every time I can think of that they fall for this trap?

They have a drastic advantage in terms of fleet numbers. Yi's actual command of the Korean navy was sporadic, at best. Business as usual would probably involve chasing down small Korean smugglers or pirates (it was mentioned previously that Korea had a fairly significant pirate problem) so most were willing to take the chance and pursue a small band of brigands rather than risk being called a coward or lazy by their subordinates. By the time they realized that it wasn't just a handful of raiders, it was too late.

I'm actually really curious about how things would have gone down if either Yi wasn't able to assume command of the Korean forces; contrary to what the thread said, I think Japan might have at least had a chance. As the first video emphasized, Japan had very little tangible naval experience while the Koreans, even if their commanders sucked, actually did have a lot of experienced sailors. Once they were on land with a decent supply line? They completely Curb Stomped the Korean forces. Like, it seemed pretty effortless.

It was only once their rations became sparse and their supplyline strained when their enemies suddenly came back with huge numbers and they've been dealing with guerrillas for a long time that the China army actually begins to look scary. After all, Korea kept unified.

The Chinese Navy meanwhile seemed reasonably scared of the Japanese; they kept to their own ports until they were really confident that a Korean fleet of 100ish were doing well. So, I wouldn't gamble on the Ming having a Yi.

Meanwhile, where the Japanese managed to steam roll Korea so quickly that there wasn't much point in internal squabbling, a Japanese army a quick march through to Beijing and along the coast could see some. China has collapsed a few times in the past and if the Japanese were able to cripple the Emperor's personal army and prestige and take a few key strategic points? I wouldn't gamble on Southern China or the internal territories keeping loyal to the Ming banner.

In my mind the question really would be; What would Japan do with the territory? I don't think Hideyoshi would be able to rule it as a Japanese colony necessarily. In that case there would be resistance and China would simply be too large to subdue. Or would it have gone down like the Manchu and Yuan dynasties where China assimilated the nobility and Japan ended up as a territory of a larger Empire?

The war comes to an end.

Yi's death mirror Admiral Nelson's, who was also killed by a bullet and told his men to hide the truth that he felled in battle.

Like a boss.

The real tragedy is that the death was completely avoidable. The Japanese were in retreat at that point, and it is unlikely they would ever comeback. But Yi (and the others) got blinded by the desire to revenge and got themselves into a last battle which was, ultimately, unnecessary.

But it was worth it! From then on, the Japanese learned their lesson and would never ever attempt such a stunt again.

COUGH.

Eh, what's with everyone's obsession with empire-building anyway? Bismarck and Ieyasu had it right: stick to your guns and you'll prosper. Over-reach and you'll rot.

edited 24th Oct '15 4:35:12 PM by TheHandle

Hideyoshi totally had the right idea though; the entire nation was filled with well trained killing machines who were trained to turn and murder each other a soon as the Shogun turned his back.

What better purpose could he put them towards then sending them all on boats and shipping them off somewhere else to go kill people somewhere else?

Best case, you have a shiny new Korea. Worst case? The guys who'd be fighting a brutal civil war to depose you and/or just grab a bit more land for themselves are all dead in Korea.

To be fair, it did take 300 years until Japan tried again.

Well, no. The worst case was dying in a lost war and losing your empire in the process, which is exactly what happened. Hideyoshi died in Korea and his successor failed to keep his "throne". The ultimate outcome was excellent to Tokugawa, though. That was the guy who knows how to make the best out of what he had.

edited 24th Oct '15 8:37:01 PM by Heatth

He died of illness in Japan; not exactly in a lost war. You could still make the argument that he invested too much of his military in Korea for his own good, or that he rushed in or the sake of legacy building when it there was inevitably going to be a succession crisis.

On the other hand, he had survived just a few years longer, his soldiers would have been back from Korea with a chance to rebuild a little and his heir might have been old enough to be more than a pawn.

Still, as you stated, his actions definitely laid the ground out to allow the Tokugawa Shogunate to become what they were.

A side note here; Looking into this myself; Extra Credit makes a big note of Japan's numerical superiority but doesn't break down the build of any ship except the Turtleship. It's worth noting that Yi always had at least a few Panokseon under his belt. These were expertly made seacraft which could handle 20+ cannons and had sturdier hulls, as they used wooden pegs where the iron nails that the Japanese used for fastening would rust and weaken the hulls. Even the best Japanese warships would only have a handful of cannons (I can't find exact numbers, but I'd sat 1-4 cannons on most things classified as "warships") while the Extra History count also include "Logistical ships" in these battles which were basically repurposed merchant ships with no cannons but carrying supplies and/or Soldiers.

So when Yi was left with 12 ships, it was less a case of 12 desperate fishingboats charging headlong into an Armada and like more 12 jetfighters charging headlong into a thick cloud of WWII era fighters. I mean, the Japanese had a chance based on pure number but holy shit, even 12 to 300, they were pretty substantially outgunned.

edited 25th Oct '15 6:28:52 AM by Fauxlosophe

Remember Shaka Zulu? Turns out he was gay.

edited 25th Oct '15 6:39:49 AM by TheHandle

So on non extra history episodes, hah, Sans halloween costume :D

OH I missed that. I did see the Peridot and Sapphire cameos though.

And a Napstablook cameo.

Video:

Yay Peridot.

a stand-alone Extra History this week.

That video also has a followup:

ISIS is a scourge to humanity.

It's kinda nice to know that the British, Chinese and even their former enemy, Japan, have great respect for Yi.

Unlike another Snow, this Snow knows something.

I feel like the went for this one solely for the Go T puns

Well regardless it's a fascinating and different topic for this Extra History.

I mean, The South Sea Bubble is probably my favorite series to date for all the hair brained shenaniganary and the Walpoleiness of it all. So I really have high hopes for this series.

Another weird, non war related subject I would like to see them tackle is the Burke and Wills Expedition. AKA: Murphey's Law, the Expedition Version.

edited 15th Nov '15 4:14:01 PM by PippingFool