Siiiiiiiiiiiip
...His point is Smash shouldn't get a port because it's not Mario Kart. That's why it made little sense. Great example as a reason to get another port, poor example if it's the opposite. Look at the context closely, and you'll see why it really shouldn't have been brought up(at least not without any real elaboration, since as it stands, the example makes zero logical sense to bother with).
And yeah, Brawl is just bad competitively. It was not designed to be very competitive, to be casual, so that makes sense anyway. Melee has a stronger competitive scene because it works better for players, with less bullshit design issues(not to say it doesn't have issues, of course) like lots of broken stages(making it hard to get a strong stage list with tons of balance that still allows for some hazards) and extreme character inbalance(Melee is not perfect either, but nobody is so beyond severe in comparison like Meta Knight to Ganondorf. Even the worst characters have something going for them and can win, it's just not likely).
Smash 64 sadly doesn't have a large competitive scene, but it's also understandably lacking in a lot of stuff. Not so much characters as really good course options. It has some nice ones, but not having a Battlefield/Final Destination actually does hurt, since those stages have helped push the competitive scene by having some more reasonable neutral stages. FD isn't perfect, of course, but it still can be far better a choice, than, say, Mushroom Kingdom(any of the versions).
edited 4th Jul '17 12:49:15 AM by Irene
...It's weird having so many websites and no way to properly display now, lol.
drunk bunny
Oh my bad, I wasn't thinking in context of the original post.
Yeah- the thing holding Smash 64 back is the game design imbalance (not necessarily character imbalance, but the fact that there's so much ending lag and no air dodging means you're in the air forever) and the complete lack of stage choices. If I recall correctly the only legal stage is dreamland.
"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
Snow Ghost
Something leads Randomness to believe they aren't gonna get the Smash 4 Staff back together just for a port.
Sakurai may just want start on a new game...but not from scratch like the last 4.
Which may lead to bigger things.
YO. Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie.
drunk bunny
Please explain what leads you to believe this when the pattern consistently shows that Nintendo is investing time and money towards creating better ports of the best selling Wii U games?
"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
Siiiiiiiiiiiip
Well, for one thing, we've only heard two things related to Smash Switch; a rumor than Namco-Bandai is making it(Sakurai has no known involvement to our knowledge) and Reggie nonchalantly mentioning of how the series will be on Switch at some point. The second point is likely just a slip of the tongue. I doubt we won't get one.
We don't really know who's behind it, and it's safe to say a Smash Switch is being worked on at this point due to how severely popular the series is. Port or not, we will see a Smash Switch anyway.
Porting is easy. First, the fact that they have all they need to do so. Second, as I mentioned, it's the most popular competitively not named Melee for the Wii U version. Porting that over(with changes to justify buying it, especially since they can't re-sell the regular Gamecube adapters) will easily sell the console. We can't assume this has jack to do with Sakurai at this time. Don't forget that Sakurai can't just "make the game". He was hired to do so each time by Nintendo. They choose who makes it. I definitely think he will be involved as long as he's interested, due to how Japan has a form of loyalty/respect for various Developers(not to say some aren't thrown out. Poor Kojima...).
Anyway, no worries, Bleye. Easy misunderstanding. I didn't really specify the context well enough.
...It's weird having so many websites and no way to properly display now, lol.
Red Spade, Black Heart
I can't really explain my reasoning, but a port of Smash for Wii U plus an adventure mode, about five new characters, and the exclusive stages from the 3DS version sounds more appealing to me than a brand new game. I don't feel like I got as much mileage out of Smash 4 as I did out of Melee and Brawl. I think there is untapped potential.
Is that a Wocket in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?
The Unknown
I'd just be happy if a hypothetical port would unfuck Wii U's existing singleplayer and/or add an Adventure Mode.
edited 4th Jul '17 9:56:58 PM by Karxrida
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
If they made a single player made with even half the effort of Brawl's and put it into a Switch port I think that alone would give it value.
Naturally the 3DS stages and such would come along for the ride, and with the Switch blazing hot right now I really doubt they'd have too much trouble getting all the guests and their extra content as part of the core package.
Siiiiiiiiiiiip
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I mean, I like the idea of Wii U's Classic Mode in a way. But they need to remove 8-Player Smash.
It's created in a way where it doesn't need mini-games but each experience has enough differences. That's fine. 3DS' Classic Mode should have mini-games since it's pretty much a slightly different Melee style.
As for Adventure Mode, yes, please. I think both versions have tons of potential, but need more polish in some areas.
That said, even if we get a port, let's be real; we'll get another Smash sequel anyway. No way the series will end this soon. The only question is how Sakurai will be involved. The man is tired and has bad hands now. It'd make sense for Nintendo to hire him as a consultant, but not a game tester, for health concerns and respect for his work on the series.
I can't say this applies to a port though, since so far, as noted, we have a rumor that Namco-Bandai is working on it and that Reggie effectively said the Switch will get the game itself. In the sense of "it'll come up soon enough". It wasn't exactly an announcement so much as a "just be patient, you know we'll have one" at best. It was either that or he spoke incorrectly.
edited 4th Jul '17 10:03:54 PM by Irene
...It's weird having so many websites and no way to properly display now, lol.
Not every 3DS stage would work; Pac-Maze hinges on everyone having their own screen.
But regardless, if we got "Smash Wii U with most of 3DS's content, plus a better Classic Mode and a new Adventure Mode of some kind", that would be ideal for me. Even if we got no new characters I'd be fine, though I'd expect at least one or two, plus the return of Ice Climbers.
edited 4th Jul '17 10:54:29 PM by Anomalocaris20
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Siiiiiiiiiiiip
Eh, Brawl's Classic was pretty poor as well. It would've been fine if it had more than one kind of mini-game and had way more variety than nearly the same type of matches over and over. That's over 30 characters doing almost the same thing over and over and over again. I can understand why Classic in 3DS was downsized, and Wii U's Classic doesn't take that long. There's too many characters.
I'd honestly say Wii U Classic is basically "half as much effort as Brawl", really. There was almost nothing put into it. No real specific match order beyond the last two at best. There's no "pattern" to it. Brawl's is lackluster and long, but you clearly see effort and an actual design philosophy here. Wii U and 3DS' Classics aren't the same thing to any real degree. It's just "whatever works". Best I can think of is the rivals are preset.
I think the best move would to go the 3DS design route, but just add a few mini-games too(besides just Target Smash/Target Test/Target Blast). Like, I can understand Race to the Finish being gone(let's be honest, trying to make it plausible for over 50 characters to beat it is pretty difficult. The idea is anyone could potentially get through it all the way to the very end, but it was difficult. 26 possible in Melee. 25 technically, but you don't have time to switch between Zelda and Sheik, so you gotta do one or the other). Grab The Trophies was a good one, but it's not needed with the new roulette system. Maybe a remake of board the platforms, but 5 levels like Target Smash was. This could make it interesting. As long as they don't pull what Brawl did(you have to beat it with everyone for those challenges), it's no problem.
edited 4th Jul '17 11:16:30 PM by Irene
...It's weird having so many websites and no way to properly display now, lol.
Red Spade, Black Heart
Here's how I'd make Classic mode: there are nine fights (eight "regular" fights plus a boss fight) and a mini-game. You get a prize (a trophy, sticker, a large amount of coins, a CD, etc.) for each fight you win. The fights work like this:
- You VS. A single opponent
- You and a partner VS. A two-opponent team
- You VS. Three opponents; free-for-all
- You VS. A team of ten weak, identical opponents
- Mini-game!
- You VS. A single opponent
- You and a partner VS. A two-opponent team
- You VS. Three opponents; free-for-all
- You VS. An opponent with a status effect
- Boss fight!
But here's the thing: all the variables—your opponents, the stage, the status effect, the prize, the mini-game, and the boss—are determined randomly, right there and then, by a slot machine mechanic. Each slot has like five possible choices and you have to hit the button at the right time to try and get the best possible outcome (for example, to make the status effect "tiny").
The only thing that doesn't change is your prize for beating the boss, which is your character's trophy.
Is that a Wocket in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?
Snow Ghost
In random order...
YO. Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie.
Red Spade, Black Heart
Maybe, but I think it'd be nicer if it kinda-sorta emulated the order of Smash 64 and Melee's Classic modes. The boss should always come last, though.
Is that a Wocket in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?
Role Model
Haven't been watching this thread for a while, but I was out for a bike ride, had some ideas for Eevee, so I decided to revisit an old post of mine
and update it, for how I'd like to see certain characters added or changed in the Smash series. This post is pretty much just for my own record.
Desired characters:
Group A:
- Ridley (consider this mod)
- Eevee:
- B - Swift: Homing projectile.
- Down+B - Evolution/Evolution attack:
- Cycles through symbols, like Pac-Man's Bonus Fruit. Once stopped, one of the different eeveelutions will trigger. Evolutions last for the remainder of the stock. note
- Upon evolving, each eeveelution will replace this with its own move.note
- Side+B - Tackle/Evolution attack: Upon evolving, each eeveelution will replace this with its own move. note
- Up+B - Quick Attack: Same as Pikachu's
- Dash attack: Sand Attack: A weak tackle, which kicks up dust for a weak hitbox ahead of the point that Eevee/the evolved form stops moving at.
- Stat changes upon evolution (Eevee is default):
- Flareon - does most damage on all physical attacks
- Jolteon - fastest, fast faller
- Vaporeon - heaviest (least knockback), slower, does more damage on projectiles
- Espeon - does most damage on projectiles, faster
- Umbreon - takes least damage from all attacks
- Leafeon - does more damage on physical attacks, some physical attacks have armor
- Glaceon - does most damage on projectiles, takes less damage
- Sylveon - slowest, does more damage on projectiles
- Viridi (Despite my desire for Viridi and Dark Pit to be implemented well, I don't know enough about either for how to do it).
- Dark Samus (consider this same mod video as above)
- Impa(Down+B Weapon Switch, which changes most of her moveset)
Group B:
- Paper Mario
- Ray Mk. Whatever
- Dixie Kong
- Isaac
- Mach Rider (also, this series should have some Arc Welding into F Zero)
Group C:
Changes and tweaks to existing characters:
Mewtwo: Change moves to fit the inspiration
- Add "Pressure" mechanic, doubling the Stale Moves penalty on all other fighters, making it slightly harder to rack up damage on him with repetitive combos.
- Add a wall cling.
- Z Grab: Extend reach, pulling opponents in when outside of arm's physical reach via telekinesis.
- Side+B Disable:
- If used on an airborne opponent, it functions as a meteor move.
- Increase vertical and horizontal range.
Jigglypuff: Change moves to fit the inspiration
- Neutral+B Rollout: No stale moves negation (in the original series, it gets more powerful the more it's used)
- Down+B Rest: add a heal 10% effect. Rename "Rest + Snore".
Charizard: Change moves to fit the inspiration
- Add "Blaze" (Ability) mechanic, increasing attack power of fire type moves when Charizard is above 100% damage.
- Side+B Flare Blitz: only causes recoil damage if it hits something.
Zelda: more powerful defensively and with keep away.
- Down+B Phantom Slash:
- can't be broken or reflected, and always lasts for the full duration
- can be used in midair at her same fall speed, serving as a frontal shield in midair, slashes once it hits the ground
- Zelda can't use another action while it's out, and if used in midair, it puts her in the helpless state
- Side+B Din's Fire:
- Return to its Brawl incarnation
- It no longer makes her helpless when used in midair.
- Dair: Each step functions as an effective spike.
- Increase knockback, on smash attacks and throws.
Ganondorf: completing Divergent Character Evolution (for purists, Melee Ganondorf could be repurposed as F-Zero's Black Shadow)
- Hover: Same as Peach's.
- Sword: uses it instead of his body parts for his U+Tilt, U+Smash, U+Air, and F+Air
- Warlock's Punch becomes his new F+Smash.
- Neutral+B Change to "Dead Man's Volley": keeping his arm straight out, he charges a magical explosion. When initiated, there is a pop of dark energy, which functions as a reflector and pushes away opponents. Then, he fires a ball of dark energy. Thus, if the reflector actually reflects, he returns the initial attack, following it with a projectile of his own. The shot part of the attack can still be reversed like the Falcon Punch, and can be reflected, absorbed, etc.
Palutena: turning her variability into a feature of her gameplay instead of working against her.
- Each special move is instead two, a Primary and Secondary; the secondary is triggered by holding B.
- Primaries & Secondaries would be divided as follows:
- Neutral B: default Autoreticle & Explosive Flame, custom 1 Autoreticle & Heavenly Light, custom 2 Explosive Flame & Heavenly Light.
- Side B: default Reflect Barrier & Superspeed, custom 1 Reflect Barrier & Angelic Missile, custom 2 Angelic Missile & Superspeed .
- Up B: default Warp & Rocket Jump, custom 1 Warp & Jump Glide, custom 2 Jump Glide & Rocket Jump.
- Down B: default Counter & Lightweight, custom 1 Counter & Celestial Firework, custom 2 Celestial Firework & Lightweight.
- Heavenly Light can be held while moving, as long as B is held down. Other attacks, shielding, etc. can't be used.
Dark Pit: Divergent Character Evolution based on Enlong's ideas.
- Neutral+B Dark Pit Staff: He holds out the staff in firing position and charges a shot. You can aim in 8 directions, and fire out a quick-shooting beam with launch power.
- Side+B Violet Palm: An advancing or retreating attack. Forward B has him leap forward while firing four rapid shots from a magic tattoo on his hand. Backward B has him leap backwards, but still fire forward.
- Down+B Ogre Club: He pulls out a huge club and swings it in front of him. It does damage, and smacking a projectile with the club reflects it, but only reflects in one direction.
- Up+B Wings of Calamity: To differentiate with Pit's power of flight, maybe this one could just be Pit's Brawl Up B, to emphasize his greater freedom of flight.
- Final Smash Silver Arrow Rain: He takes to the sky, and targets an area on the ground, as seen by a targeting ring that the player can move. He then fires the Silver bow into the air, raining countless arrows down. Based on the Bow type special air move in KIU, which Dark Pit uses as a super move in his boss fight.
- Use Silver Bow for Up Smash and Side Smash attacks, with hitboxes stopping at midrange.
Samus: buff keep-away/spacing game
- Enable crawling, which turns her into her Morph Ball form.
- Grapple: after firing, can be briefly angled up to 90 degrees
- Neutral+B Charge Shot:
- Automatically charges over time, like ROB's laser
- Holding B draws it out, then you can tilt the control stick to choose the direction to shoot in, for full 360 degree range.
- Releasing B fires it. Simply tapping B fires it straight ahead.
- Side+B Missiles:
- Increase all missile speed.
- Homing Missile actually homes in better, capable of making sharp turns similar to Mii Gunner's.
- Down+B Bombs:
- When in midair, up to three bombs can be used before landing on the ground.
- When in midair, double-tapping B detonates a bomb and sends Samus upwards quickly.
- Greatly increase damage and knockback.
- Increase falling speed unless bomb jumping.
Luigi: Emphasize spin-off game abilities.
- Change Dair: Luigi Cyclone
- Down+B: Poltergust from Luigis Mansion
- Functions similarly to Rosalina's Gravitational Pull
- Side+B Green Missile: add additional electric effects to the not fully charged variation, keeping in tune with the Mario And Luigi series abilities.
Doctor Mario: Emphasize the "Doctor", not the "Mario"
- Change Side+B, where he gives out a virus that poisons over time.
- Change Up+B to a downwards pill shot, similar to Robin's Elwind.
Marth/Lucina: "Enhance."
- Neutral+B Shield Breaker: Can't be perfect shielded.
- Side+B Dancing Blade: Pressing Side+B in the opposite direction of current movement will have the player turn around and continue the move in that direction.
- Change all throws to implement swordplay.
- Lucina is a genderswapped alt of Marth, like Corrin, Robin, etc.
Roy: Divergent Character Evolution, emphasize fire abilities.
- Neutral B: Uncharged variant emits a short projectile fireball.
- Side+B Change to "Double Edge Stance":
- Remove the second stage, changing it to a three stage move.
- Final stage true combos into Up+B or Down+B.
- Up+B Blazer: can be arced using the control stick after the move has started.
edited 15th Apr '18 12:08:04 PM by wanderlustwarrior
The sad, REAL American dichotomy
Arashi Shigehito
I'm kind of confused on what Ridley's Down B is supposed to do.
Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Role Model
Probably a status buff of some sort. I like the video, but it's definitely not perfect
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Especially in the head/neck area.
I honestly wouldn't mind if Ridley became the game's new largest playable character. His air speed and mobility, and large hitboxes, would be balanced by his clumsiness on the ground and large hurt-boxes. It's just a matter of making him larger than the others while not excessively so.
edited 7th Jul '17 12:06:52 AM by wanderlustwarrior
The sad, REAL American dichotomy
He's a little too small there.
Ridley is too small.
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Arashi Shigehito
I mean, Olimar is also like a hundred times larger than he is in his games, but you don't see anyone complain about the accuracy of his size.
Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
I wouldn't mind if they retooled Olimar to be three pixels tall, with an army of 50 or so two pixel tall Pikmin.
Role Model
Anybody have thoughts on Eevee?
The sad, REAL American dichotomy
loafing about
And Dedede, one of the largest in the cast, is presumably 16 inches. Fucking 40 centimeters.
That's like a quarter the size of an average/short-ish person.
edited 7th Jul '17 12:39:13 AM by Geist-Fox
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
That reminds me, anyone else bothered by how Meta Knight is smaller than Kirby in Smash?
Prim, proper, and yet so socially awkward
I like the idea of having Eevee being able to become all of its different Eeveelutions as part of its moveset. Now I actually kind of want that to be official if Eevee ever became playable in Smash.
"I shall not be foolish again, my dear Gwendolyn!"
The difference here is that Brawl was an incredibly poor fighting game, while Smash 4 is one of the best balanced fighting games period.
It's also not very common for a fighting game to lose it's scene just because a new game in the series came out- it's actually more strange that Smash Bros only has two games in the series that are actually played at high enough levels and I don't see why it'll be different from any other fighting game scene.
Because they're both incredibly popular Nintendo series' that were the biggest sellers on the failed wii u? They're similar from a marketing standpoint, not a gameplay one.
edited 4th Jul '17 12:40:43 AM by EpicBleye
"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae