Super Smash Bros.

I remember my first time playing Injustice on PS 4, I treated it like Smash Bros. I think I picked Zatanna, but all I did was space and block, and I eventually beat the other guy by Death of a Thousand Cuts.

edited 10th Jan '17 2:25:55 PM by SalFishFin

I did button mash when I initially played Injustice, but now I actually look up the command inputs to do the special moves.

My friends don't seem to be interested in doing that so they opt to button mash. It's funnier with Marvel vs. Capcom 3 because they'll activate X-factor too early for it to be of any use.

This probably emphasizes the difference between Smash and traditional fighters in that Smash doesn't require much skill whereas it's a good idea to improv your skill in a traditional fighter.

That said, Smash is still one of my favorite fighting games.

There is a skill factor in Smash, but the cieling is somewhat lower, performing the flashier moves don't require "confusing" inputs and comboes don't go on for 15 hits.

Still would be a good idea to add more official mechanics and tweaks that promote and encourage technical play, though.

Reduced or even no landing lag on aerials alone would be a massive improvement as that would promote air-to-ground combos.

Conversely, though, it means you can't accidentally do something cool in Smash.

Accidentally throwing out a Shoryuken is Street fighter by button mashing isn't that cool.

Though button mashing leading to super moves that became increasingly more common in fighting games is cool for newbies.

Smash doesn't have super moves. Yet. We got them "ultimate moves" with Final Smashes, but not something in between that can be executed through a power bar up to three times a round.

...

Power Meters ("POW Meter?") and super moves for Smash 5?

I mean, Final Smashes absolutely fill that niche in terms of being showstoppers. They're too potent to be kept as-is to be made a metered thing, at least outside of a dedicated special mode, but I also can't see them ever being dialed back, since- Well, they're showstoppers.

Final Smashes are really unbalanced but something that is as a middle ground could be cool, yeah.

I don't think Smash really needs any more cool stuff for newbies though. The whole game is already that with the items on on gimmicky stages.

You can totally do cool stuff accidentally in smash. It's called converting off a missed input.

That doesn't look cool, though. Unless you're into the competitive side of the game you wouldn't even recognize it as anything.

Tell me this doesn't look cool.

Flat: it does not cool

Geist: That's what I meant in regards to Smash vs. traditional fighters in that it doesn't require much skill to play whereas you do need skill in order to master a traditional fighter like, say, Blazblue.

I think it's less that Smash Bros has a lower skill ceiling, but more that it has a higher entry floor. You can pick up any character in Smash Bros and learn all of their moves in a few minutes, but you need to devote yourself to learning even the basics of a single character in most other traditional fighting games.

I'm with . Having to learn a bunch of different combinations of buttons and stick movements to even begin to understand how a character plays doesn't strike as "skill". It's more like "busy work".

Having the complicated stick and button inputs in Smash would kill it with the general public. There's a reason Ryu's special input moves aren't very complicated and there are only 3.

Smash is popular because of how easy it is to pick up and play compared to SF or Mortal Kombat.

All that half-circle, quarter-circle stuff drives me nuts, too. It's the reason Smash is the only fighter I play. I can't even pull off Ryu's simplified Smash attacks consistently.

I can pull off the quarter-and-semi circles just fine in stuff like Street Fighter, Ryu's commands in Sm4sh, Marvel vs. Capcom, and even Injustice.

So, it's just that Smash takes no time in learning how to master a character compared to other fighting games?

To learn the basics for a Smash character? Minutes.

To master? Just as long as any other fighting game. There are a lot more factors to winning in Smash than just hitting the opponent enough many times.

Hell, most traditional fighting games don't have the strange weight, damage and knockback mechancis Smash has;

• The big burly guys in traditional fighting games just have more HP.
• Smash has no HP and the big guys are instead harder to knock off stage, but their weight in turn makes them combo fodder as well.
  • Said knockback increasing means you can't spam the same combo forever either.

Honestly, I wish the heavyweight characters actually got some more reliable fast attacks to compensate for their overall slower speed. Most fighting games do that.

Portrayal aside, Ganondorf in Melee is probably the best designed Mighty Glacier in the series since even though he was slow, he had a mix of slow attacks and fast attacks.

Even then, their neutral attacks, which are fast "enough", come out a bit slower than the first attack of the other characters.

Still on Street Fighter, Zangief has a slower weak punch than Ryu, whose jab is slower still than Cammy's.

New players to Street Fighter tend to try mastering the flashy special moves motions first, which is not a good way to learn the game, IMO. If they learned spacing and poking with normal moves first, then the learning curve would be similar to Smash's learning curve.

The problem with that, though, is that spacing isn't really fun for the layman. Seeing the big, flashy attacks is.

Are we actually arguing about whether Super "totally just a button-masher party game" Smash Bros is not fun enough for casual players?

Well, it started as me noting how I usually lose to a friend when playing SSB yet hold my own just fine in something like Marvel Vs Capcom, and thinking it's likely due to SSB being balanced more for entry level than other fighters.

Which is definitely true! I always enjoyed Smash Bros far more than traditional fighters because it's essentially more of a platformer than a fighter, and part of that is that, as raocow put it, it's a game that gives you a simple set of controls that allow you to do complex tasks. Which is very much in line with how my ADHD mind works anyway.

... also, you know, the fact that Smash Bros was considered a party game rather than a fighter for the longest time. Likely by people who feel proud of having mastered a game with a very high barrier of entry.