Game of Thrones [Potential Book Spoilers]

In fairness to Clarke and Harrington, the writing doesn't do them any service. Tyrion's may have been neutered, but Dany is a vehicle for cool, bad ass one-liners (and otherwise irrational and inconsistent), and Jon is The Hero. Not much you can with either of those 'characters'.

Fewer original characters

I largely agree. First, definitely with your original post in the other thread about having (more) female writers as a good thing and less nudity. I'd also add that my personal pet peeve is the lack of diverse casting.

Regarding Stannis and Renly, I'm a believer in the idea that Stannis will burn Shireen in the books and that colored the presentation of him in the show (I guess we'll know when the books come out). In any case, although I tend toward a darker view of Stannis, I would have liked to see more of his reformist tendencies and while I like atheist!Davos in the show, it overall would have been good to keep that aspect of Stannis.

I'm less sure with Renly. Renly is a pretty shallow (both in personality and depth given), unsympathetic character in the books, so I can understand the motivation for some degree of Adaptational Heroism.

That's a good point with Tyrion. In earlier seasons, he was mean at least on occasion and there should be more of that. I have to say that I liked the interaction between Tyrion and the sex slave/prostitute, but there's obvious issues with the scene.

Disagree about Harrington and Clarke. I just can't see anyone else in the roles. I do agree though that with both Robb and Jon, they kind of went from a precocious teen in the books to a naive adult in the show. With Clarke, my feeling is basically that I don't really like Dany as a person, and she captures Dany really well. IMO, you are doing Dany right if you get "a vehicle for cool, bad ass one-liners (and otherwise irrational and inconsistent)".

Agree with the direwolves. My understanding (not sure where I'm getting this) is that it's easier to do realistic CGI for scales than it is for fur. I think it's an instance where technology/budget inherently changes an element of the story, since the direwoves are really important in the books.

edited 19th Feb '16 7:52:34 PM by Hodor2

So difficult to do cgi fur, in fact, that we have had no cgi direwolves yet. ALL the wolves so far have been digitally rescaled actors.

I think the only thing they should have changed is plan things better...its clear from how the seasons cohere that there isn't a lot of long-term planning, and often what happens ends up becoming an Indy Ploy, partly because of how TV works where a single bad season can potentially kill the whole show, and the showrunners are under pressure to deliver the stuff that made it so popular...elaborate speeches on power, extreme violence and sex, shocking deaths.

Like Tysha is a case in point. There is no reason to bring that up if they weren't going to follow up on it. They introduced it in Season 1, made references to it in Seasons 2 and 3...and then dropped it in Season 4, mostly because, "Shae...I guess!".

Aside from that, I don't see many changes that will make the show better than what it is. I mean for the budget requirements, the limitations of the TV medium, Game of Thrones is probably as good as it can concievably get and the showrunners deserve a lot of credit for making ASOIAF accessible while preserving its ensemble nature. Fundamentally all adaptations involve a set of choices made by the people who adapt them. Now some might say that someone other Benioff and Weiss should have adapted them, which would put a question mark on if the show would have gotten past Pilot, would have gotten the cast that it got and been as successful as it is now. So I think that the showrunners deserve a lot of respect, and more than what they might have got from some corners (myself included).

My main issues are with the recent seasons where even with all the caveats and excuses made for TV and the like, its still pretty bad and unnecessary and it seems geared towards Season 9 syndrome. Manufacturing shocks just for the sake of it...

Better long-term planning for sure. Even season-to-season planning looks pretty bad. Why move Jaime and Brienne's plot this season if they're going to adapt the Riverlands next? Why include the Asha season 4 filler if they were going to do the Kingsmoot? Why include Dorne at all beyond as a set up for killing off Myrcella (who had, perhaps, two-lines before this season. And, what, five by the end of it?)?

Honestly, as an aside, the best Dornish plot to include would have been Quentyn's (or Arriane acting as Quentyn, maybe traveling with the Sand Snakes, if you're really set on adapting them)—only requires one more prominent actor, re-establishes Martell antagonism to the current regime and thus acts as a loose follow up to Oberyn, and is easily integrated into the other plot line. He could just be a guy that shows up in Dany's story for a few episodes, tbh, tempting her away from her duty as Queen of Mereen. But I guess that would hog Tyrion's spotlight?

You know what would have been hilarious? If, with his dying breath, Robert legitimized all his bastards at once. Just fuck everything up, complete chaos. Why have a war of five kings when you could have fifty?

You can only have a war of fifty if you have an army for each one. Without an army behind you, it's open season for Bastard-hunting, as it did indeed happen in the books and the TV show.

And even then having all those bastards and legitimizing them is not a problem unless of course Robert has a bastard who is older than Joffrey. First born still counts a lot. And if that was a girl...well she gets nothing anyway. If you are a girl, first your brothers have to die, then your cousins, then your uncles...and then maybe you might have a chance of taking the crown.

Well, Gendry. I think?

To paraphrase Uncle Joe Stalin, "How many divisions has Gendry got?"

"Hey. Stannis. Turns out that I'm the rightful heir to the Seven Kingdoms."

"*Grumbles something about "by rights" and calls his banners and kills his brother*"

Well Stannis would be the only one who would back Gendry...that's for sure, if legally Gendry had a claim.

I don't think Renly's that shallow and it's pretty easy to make him more sympathetic without changing his character or needing to villainize Stannis. Just cut the parts where he insults Shireen and Brienne as well remove Renly making a grab for the kingship with Ned and make it more like the book where he gives a decent plan to Ned.

It sometimes feel like they made TV Renly a straight case of The Good King so it'd hurt more when they pulled the rug from under us.

Stannis' should've kept all his speeches from the books. Not only are they cool and quote-worthy and so end up for good TV but they're revealing about his character like the Proudwing speech, Renly's peach, burning one child to save millions from the dark, cart before the horse speech, the speech about pardoned lords etc.

I'll give them this. Tyrion and Jorah's interactions were good. And that poem they both recite was solid writing.

Well maybe you'd change your mind if you saw someone else as Jon and Daenerys. Alas unless we get another adaptation it won't happen anytime soon.

To paraphrase Uncle Joe Stalin, "How many divisions has Gendry got?"

That sounds similar to:

“How many swords will the Lord of Light put into my hand?” Stannis demanded again.

In lighter news, Melisandre appeared on Late Night with Seth Meyers for a Baby Shower Skit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5C6kG57J7Q

This is fucking hilarious and I love it.

This is great stuff:

"I looked for you, at Barnes and Noble," I said to them.

"We were not there," TWOW answered.

"Woe to D&D if we had been," said The She-Wolves of Winterfell.

“When Sansa's Agency fell, Alex Graves slew your subverted tropes with a golden fanfic sword, and I wondered where you were.”

“Far away,” TWOW said, “or GRRM's Masterpiece would yet sit the New York Times Bestseller List, and Bad Poosey would burn in seven hells.”

“I came down on the Public Library to find a release date,” I told them, “and GOT through ADWD and the first three Tales of Dunk and Egg were on the shelf, and all their graphic novelizations were on display. I was certain you would be among them.”

“Our release dates do not bend so easily,” said ADOS.

“Bryan Cogman is fled to Hollywood, with a screenplay for Robert's Rebellion. I thought you might have been adapted by him.”

“Bryan Cogman is a good man and true,” said The She-Wolves of

“But not of the Books,” TWOW pointed out. “The Books do not come out.”

“Then or now,” said ADOS. He donned his Nice Catch.

“We swore a vow,” explained TWOW.

The book wraiths moved up beside me, with Morally Gray Characterization in hand. They were seven against three.

“And now it begins,” said ADOS, the Conclusion to the Greatest Book Series Ever. He unsheathed his Bittersweet Ending and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with subtle nuance.

“No,” I said with sadness in my voice. “Now it ends.”

-turns on HBO-

-bookshelfstud

edited 2nd Mar '16 10:59:44 AM by MadSkillz

Well done keeping the spoiler lid on, HBO. Your biggest new actor for this season just dropped a spoiler on something probably no show only viewer saw coming. It might be the Hound coming back, is the worst way to answer that question.

edited 3rd Mar '16 3:00:36 PM by LordofLore

Since wouldn't be right to bring up in the spoiler free thread, I don't really get the assumption by a lot of people that the casting means that Clegane bowl (get hype!) is happening- or if it is, it will be happening this season.

Seems like most obviously that the show is adapting scenes from AFFC (presumably compositing the Elder Brother and Meribald- which makes sense) and revealing that Sandor is alive, and at peace.

Yeah I got the sense that it's just Quiet aisle Hound that we're seeing.

But I'm not sure who Septon Meribald will monologue to? Brienne? She's met the Hound. Would be kinda weird if she doesn't recognize him.

I actually would watch Season 6 just to hear the Broken Men monologue from Ian Mc Shane, I hope they don't shortchange that. It's an incredible moment in the books and it would be cool if the show includes it, for one thing it is one of GRRM's favorite moments in his own books and probably his most moving prose. As to why he would monologue to there are options, maybe Jaime can take that role...who knows.

Compositing Septon Meribald into the Elder Brother is a change I am okay with, there are differences between them yes, but I think it's not as drastic a combination as other changes made by the show. On a scale of acceptable Adaptation Distillation where (Bronn-Jacelyn Bywater) is decent, (Jorah/Jon-Con) is average and (Sansa/Jeyne) is intolerably stupid hellspawn, I'd place it between Bronn-JB and Jorah-JC.

edited 4th Mar '16 6:49:13 AM by JulianLapostat

There is no way the show can adapt the Broken Men speech fully. Septon Meribald's speech is a couple pages long. You're just going to lose the audience after the first minute of it.

You either have to have truncate it or remove it.

Valkyrist, a youtuber who does ASOIAF speeches, did it in under five minutes. Wasn't the Orson beetle speech at least just as long?

I don't see why they would feature Meribald/Elder Brother and not include the speech, that speech is the whole thread around those characters. Ian Mc Shane implies that he's a "peacenik" which suggests they will be faithful to that aspect of the story. But then you know, this is Post-Season 5 GOT, where the lunatics are quite literally Running the Asylum and anything goes.

Game of Thrones is actually a very preachy, talky TV Show, because it is ultimately a very conventional TV show. It very rarely does the Show, Don't Tell thing, but long monologues about Contemplating The Navels are actually quite common in the show. Think of that Valyrian interlude where Jorah and Tyrion sing a poem together (which is not there in the books) and it's all about how empires crumble and some shit like that. Also how High Sparrow preaches the Sparrow Theory of History with Olenna Tyrell, really long and preachy. Then there's Petyr Baelish the Monologue Machine. They also kept Varys' Riddle.

Where the show gets wrong is that it doesn't include the short, succinct and perfect dialogue from the books. Like "Only Cat" becomes "your sister" (three syllables but far longer and elaborate than needed). The number of scenes that deal with Tysha in the books is far shorter than the original moments in the show which tries, really tries, to convince us these two really are in love. That might be the reason why they don't like Stannis. He's not a man who gives big speeches, but he has the best dialogue in the books. The biggest "World of Cardboard" Speech in the books, are really short and to the point:

"There is much I do not understand, I have never pretended elsewise. I know the seas and rivers, the shapes of the coast, where the rocks and shoals lie. I know hidden coves where a boat can land unseen and I know a king protects his people or he is no king at all."

— Ser Davos Seaworth

"Lord Seaworth is a man of humble birth, but he reminded me of my duty, when all I could think of was my rights. I had the cart before the horse, Davos said. I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne."

— King Stannis Baratheon

Can't figure out embedding (help please?) but season 6 trailer- here.

edited 8th Mar '16 12:45:40 PM by Hodor2

I'm so goddamn thirsty

In the sense of eagerness or the sense of being "salty"?