Harry Potter: Wizards vs. Muggles

Everyone knows that you can't affect the future when you time travel. Besides...humanity will always be ready and willing to use violence against a threat.

Yeah, time turners seem on par with Alternian chat clients in terms of stable time-loopiness. If they do change the past, your own timeline is still set.

I'm not talking about changing the future, I'm talking about going into the past before anyone in Muggle governments (except for the heads of state) knows magic exists, when they're not going to be on their guard against Imperious Curses and the like, and bringing important information gained from the past back to the future.

What's stopping the leaders of countries of telling people? Chances are, if a head of state knows that there's a community of individuals with abnormal abilities, it's likely his subordinates know as well. As much as we like to criticize our leaders; it's highly unlikely anyone would keep such info to themselves.

And then get impeached/overthrown/assassinated because he's having hallucinations.

What the hell kind of country are you living in? Over here we take every threat to national security-no matter how ridiculous- very seriously.

Terrorists are one thing. Magic, though?

I can just see it now:

"What's that sir? You know for a fact that there's a secret community of individuals with powers we can't understand? Wait..they have a head of state and a government similar to our own? He contacted you in person? You want to create a contingency plan in case we have to go to war?"

"GTFO dude, somebody arrest this madman!"

I can tell you this: if word got out that Barack Obama was spending taxpayer money to train U.S. military personnel how to fight wizards, the media would chew him up and spit him out.

Of course, this is working on the assumption that there isn't a wizard stationed in the White House who will wipe Obama's memory if he starts blabbing about magic.

edited 4th Dec '10 8:09:57 PM by RavenWilder

But i fit was sych a big isues why tell him?

Of course, this is working on the assumption that there isn't a wizard stationed in the White House who will wipe Obama's memory if he starts blabbing about magic.

I've read that fanfic.

I assumed that was the case - probably the only surefire way the masquerade could be broken is if someone (or someones) on the Wizarding side breaks it - Muggles by the way non-magical people regard magic would be disbelieved and, by the way Wizards infiltrate things with people powerful in memory charms, anyone high up who tries to do so would probably be wiped.

I've never really liked the Neuralyzer concept myself. From a moral standpoint, anyway.

^ How about this: During the second book, Harry and Ron are flying over London in their car. Suddenly the Invisibility Booster fails. In the novel itself, the two pummel the device with their fingers and manage to get it working again. In this world however, their attempts fail to reactivate it. Several hundred muggles see the car.

To add to this, a muggle company is shooting a commercial in downtown London. Although they do not realize it at the time, they manage to catch the car clearly on their cameras. Later, the commerical airs during a major sporting event.

The Obliviators would probably be able to deal with most of the witnesses, but I am unsure if they would do anything about the video camera. They have already displayed ignorance on muggle technology before, so they might disregard it.

edited 6th Dec '10 1:08:47 PM by Pentadragon

It might be similar enough to their own cameras that they'd realize its significance. In fact, a video camera is a little bit more like a wizarding camera, isn't it?

Also, if the Obliviators have managed to maintain the masquerade at all up this point, they probably know to watch out for this stuff.

^^ Yeah, it would take a Wizard messing with the masquerade, intentionally or, like Ron and Harry, accidentally, to set things in motion.

Given that I'm guessing Wizarding photography probably basically involves enchanting regular cameras or photos, I think wizards probably know how to deal with video cameras.

Also, I think of the Department Of Mysteries and such as sort of like the CIA, in that they know a lot (even more than you would imagine), and they have a frankly scary ability to take control of and suppress things.

edited 6th Dec '10 11:58:38 AM by KnownUnknown

if word got out that Barack Obama was spending taxpayer money to train U.S. military personnel how to fight wizards, the media would chew him up and spit him out.

Haha...that made my day.

[[quoteblock]]What the hell kind of country are you living in? Over here we take every threat to national security-no matter how ridiculous- very seriously. [[quoteblock]]

"The U.S. threat level is High, or Orange, for all domestic and international flights..."

I don't know about that one, not even Speedo Guy could raise it:

edited 7th Dec '10 2:20:23 PM by toiletbomber

I think a lot of fans understate how powerful wizards could be against Muggles. I expect a strong Shield Charm could stop bullets - it was likely used against arrows during the Middle Ages, it's just that it would need to be stronger because bullets move faster. There's no reason there couldn't be a potion that would guard someone against physical harm. Magical proximity causes Muggle technology to malfunction, so Muggles couldn't send tanks against Hogwarts or the Ministry. And wizards mainly live among the Muggle population - their government is underneath London, for goodness sakes! So the fact that Muggles have the A-bomb really wouldn't be of any use.

Then there's the fact that Muggles know even less about wizards that wizards do about Muggles. It's easier for a wizard to work out how to defend against a gun, once he's seen one used, than it is for a Muggle to block a silently-cast Memory Charm or Stunning Spell or Imperius Curse.

Word of God has stated in the past that Guns > Wands.

A Shield Charm, accordig to Miss Rowling herself, will not stop a bullet.

As for your tank theory; they could just use older technology. On WW 2 era yanks the most advanced piece of technology was the radio.

This somehow seems relevant.

Really, I think wizards' abilities are just too versatile for Muggles to go up against. Mind control, mind reading, transformation spells, invisibility powers, teleportation, and a whole mess of others would make Muggle governments keeping any secrets from the wizards nigh-impossible. Secrets like the locations and launch codes for nuclear missiles, for instance.

That's assuming a strictly divided war between Muggles and wizards could occur, though. I'd imagine that there would actually be many wizards who would side with the Muggles (or at least not participate in their conquest). Plus, we can't assume that all the nations on either side will just play ball with each other. We might end up with situations where Wizard India is at war with Muggle India, but Muggle India forges an alliance with Wizard China, while Wizard China maintains an uneasy peace with Muggle China because of pressure from Wizard Canada.

The scenario we had decided up until now was Muggle U.S. vs. wizards.

No idea what other Muggles were in play.

I thought it was muggle UK vs UK wizards?

They attacked Los Angeles, did they not?

Los Angeles = America.

Or am I remembering wrong?

Hmmm, sucks for them.