Code Geass

The UFN, like the Black Knights itself, is an artifice of Lulu's ego. I don't think they'd feel much responsibility to it than they would any of his other mandates. Trusting Schniezel is a fair complaint, but I think its sort of established that he's seen as a 'Good Britannian' (however pragmatic he is) and in this case it'd probably be a 'better the devil you know' situation.

The Villeta/Ohgi romance thing is totally dumb though, I'll agree with you there. I actually thought it was 'cute' once but when I rewatched it Amnesia!Villeta comes off as too much of a creepy, idealized Stepford wife.

Also seriously considering doing a Geass Reboot again. I'm on the fence over excising Nunally, I think she'd end up being too distracting from what I'd want to do.

edited 3rd Mar '14 3:54:05 AM by Scherzo09

In a sense I do agree about "Lulu's ego", but on the other, there's a reason why typically you need the kind of structure the UFN provided. Xing-ke, Tianzi and Kaguya were competent figureheads, Ohgi was anything but; not to mention that the rest of the B Ks for the most part were a military/resistance force, and striking a deal with Schneizel that arbited things so heavily with no input even from their higher ups who weren't Zero overstepped their boundaries, big time. As far as Schneizel goes, he was already known for his campaign on the EU, and almost drove the B Ks out of China and practically annexed the area if not for Zero/Diethard pulling one over the Eunuchs.

Agreed on amnesiac Villetta. I will admit though that the gag with Ohgi as a boring husband in the Nunnally in Wonderland PD was pretty funny.

I think a better ending with the idea of separating Lelouch from Nunnally would be for the latter to actually die and the former forced into accepting C. C.'s code and accepting his responsibility as Zero, in other words, what Suzaku ended up with instead, only indefinitely.

I think a lot of it is about finding out how the cause has been a sham. And Lulu had been making several erratic, questionable command decisions over the last few episodes. I don't think they're blameless but I think it stems from Lulu's lack of trust.

By cause, what are you referring to?

edited 3rd Mar '14 11:40:46 AM by azul120

Well their perception of it, I mean.

Hmm, you mean framing Lelouch's mission as partially based on Revenge? That might be a good way to have Lulu internalize Nunnally as a motivator without the baggage she would bring still being alive.

edited 3rd Mar '14 12:18:53 PM by Scherzo09

Been reading your last few posts, thought I give an opinion

You could say if you want to interpret from a certain view. That the Japanese Black Knights only ever wanted Japan back, they never really brought into the whole knights of justice thing (well Kallen did and one or two others like Urabe and Kaguya). They mainly sided with Zero because they knew he was their best chance of getting their country back.

Even after he had abandoned them to save Nunnally (course they didn't know that). Thanks to Tohdoh and Ohgi saying he was their best chance despite lulu not apologizing for the abandonment (lulu's pride was in effect at times).

It's also why they went along with the UFN thing really, the japs never seem to really care too much about the whole idea I feel.

Along with why the four holy swords came to them for help, because they knew that the black knights were their only hope of getting Tohdoh free. As Chiba and Asahina always seemed to have a low view of the Black knights, as I remember them saying they aren't true resistance fighters, since they felt the BK's were stealing the rebellion form under them. Of course the JLF was pretty rubbish overall.

Even in season one some of the BK didn't trust zero, I remember when Ohgi and his men discuss how they didn't like how he kept secrets from them in episode 12 of R1.

And as the series went on, that mistrust of him and the secrets he was holding cause more resentment and when it got to r2 episode 19, they in a way reached their breaking point, with Schneizel coming in and giving them some answers (even though they are half truths at best and some lies as well) about their leader.

Doesn't excuse the fact they were very gullible in believing their enemy so easily, nor the fact the betrayal ended up bringing a lot of damage. But that's how the jap bk's were really overall, they only really cared about getting their country back, without seeming to care too much about how they aren't the only ones who Britannia have made suffer.

Plus that Lelouch's pride wouldn't let him actually share the burden with anyone else, or putting trust in more than just a few people who weren't in the positions that could influence choices, keeping Rolo, Viletta close to him blowing up in his face big time thanks to their actions. Finally showing too much restraint in dealing with Suzaku.

Helped to overall caused what happened in episode 19 of r2. That and the fact the writers were rushing trying to get the series done due to the timeslot change somewhat as well.

Also another thing I'm considering is getting rid of Bismark and giving his Geass power to Charles. I'm also getting rid of the State Atheism and make it Quasi-Christian, ala Columbia.

Personally, for the Geass fanfic I've had on the backburner for a while, I I was going to deliberately underline how the history of the Code Geass setting makes no sense whatsoever by having Norse mythology as the state religion and Christianity as a weird little cult that never quite got off the ground (and was dealt a terminal blow when one of its later prophets turned out to be some sort of immortal, mind-controlling demon who, for some reason, is always depicted in medieval illustrations as having green hair).

That doesn't make any sense since the Po D of Geass history (leaving aside Eowyn stuff) was that the Tudors produce an heir, so the Stuart line never takes the throne and thus the English Civil War never happens. Which results in a much more tyrannical and unchecked British monarch.

edited 5th Mar '14 11:52:51 PM by Scherzo09

... no, I'm pretty sure the point of divergence was way before then. There's the gunpowder thing, for a start, and the existence of sakuradite. Also Eowyn the Celtic 'super-king'.

edited 6th Mar '14 12:59:48 AM by Iaculus

I uh, just kinda ignore the stuff that doesn't make sense. No Gunpowder in particular sounds dumb.

Fuck that - if you're writing Geass fanfic, you either embrace this shit or you aren't writing Geass fanfic.

I dunno, the trope of Fix Fic exists for a reason.

Like it has the capacity to be legit Alternate History of some things are retconned.

Have to agree that some of Code Geass's history makes no sense at times. Though i do believe that it got mentioned by C.C in the DVD box-set on the special stuff that most of Britannia's history is a load of propaganda and mostly likely false, considering how they lost Britain. So they would want to make their history look great for the most part, and that it goes back generations. Code Geass wiki has some background as well. Whether they makes sense is another matter.

Another annoyance i found was that if Napoleon won at battle of Trafalgar, then how did he still lose at Waterloo. Plus how is it that the EU Countries are the same as today's, know they seem to hint a war happening in C.C's past that involved trenches, but this is something that should have been explained properly i feel.

But i put it down to Sunrise writers not doing the research that would make divergence believable, just picking out stuff that they thought was interesting. I mean come on if your going to do an alternative world, at least make some effort towards showing how your world came to be what it was.

@ laculus

Where was it mentioned C.C. was Christian in the first place?

What do you mean by that? IRC, there's usage of firearms in the show.

Wouldn't the war have something to do with the political situation prior to Britania invading Japan. Since we never heard what happened to the Emperor of Japan, I like to believe Japan was a battlefield in that war, and that the Emperor got overthrown afterwards.

they didn't mention the emperor as jap TV never mention him ever, not a law, but they just do not mention the emperor or any of his relatives on Japanese TV, unlike us English who constantly take the mick out of our monarchy.

Yeah Japan would definitely have been a battlefield at some point, as according to Code Geass wiki in the history section. There was a first pacific war at some point. Plus they mention japan became a democracy in 1945 a.t.b round the time the meji secured their power and the samurai became extinct as a social class.

I had a fic that was there to explore a bit of Japan's history in Code Geass and explore Kyoto house more, since I felt these were interesting elements that I think could have been fun to learn more of.

edited 6th Mar '14 6:09:03 AM by romancechina88

Well, she got her Geass from a nun, so there is some sort of connection there.

As for the guns, they're all Magnetic Weapons using sakuradite. It's why they're so bulky.

edited 6th Mar '14 7:18:11 AM by Iaculus

It's true that the alternate history of Code Geass was underdeveloped, but the fact it is rarely mentioned in the TV show, aside from just a couple of glances at a textbook and so forth, allows future works to retcon and/or expand on this sort of thing.

Like what they're doing with Akito the Exiled right now, changing stuff about the E.U. and Napoleon that had only ever been mentioned in the written DVD history lessons and never brought up during the actual show. According to that, Napoleon was a successful general but he was put to the guillotine, so presumably there never was a Waterloo in the first place.

edited 6th Mar '14 7:47:42 AM by Souther

C.C. getting her Geass from a nun, forgot about that. Thanks

In regards to those weapons, do small arms used by infantrymen count too?

Yup, right down to those gigantic handguns everyone uses. As alluded to above, it's why they're so gigantic.

Actually according to Code Geass wiki's history timeline, waterloo did happen, and for some reason Napoleon lost that.

maybe the European Britannians had a role in that in some way, we might get some details on that in the future. Since apparently Britannia had Napoleon assassinated at some point in revenge.

The big difference if the EU page is anything to go by (I treat it with caution due to it's sources not being stated much). The revolution's that got put down in real life against the monarchies in places like Austria seemed to happen there and it led to the EU being formed to bring a social revolution. Which if episode one of Akito is to go by seems to have not worked in the long term.

Akito the Exiled... to be honest I feel so far it's been a bit of a let down, liked the idea of exploring how the EU fell, but the execution has been not been done well so far.

Too much focus on Japanese characters and what the japs are going through in the EU, when I wanted to see more of the eu people, how they view their superpowers decline, how they view the council of forty etc. how the leaders of the eu, populism hampers the eu. It's told about often, but not shown I feel in Akito.

The whole Japanese ghetto thing is overall not interesting and too much of a rehash of the main series. Know it's a Japanese anime and jap audiences want to relate to something. But would have been nice to have European characters in the lead really.

Akito I feel just isn't interesting as a character, he feels bland, boring and not sure why his story is worth telling at the moment, his background doesn't seem all that interesting either, so far he seems to just want to die. Not seeming to care too much about things. with two episodes to go, it looks like he's heading towards a Downer Ending. But who knows.

The other jap characters, again they aren't terrible, just not interesting really to hold much interest so far.

His brother so far also I feel isn't interesting as a villain, though he hasn't done much yet so maybe that will change. His gold knightmare is certainly stands out, Manfredi felt more interesting as a character, kinda of a shame he got killed of so quickly.

Leila is I feel a character that is interesting, she's idealistic, feels relatable. is nice in a good way, she's the main reason I keep watching Akito. Where her fate lies will be interesting to see. plus what her Geass will be will be interesting to find out, as well as her contract with C.C, has been confirmed it was C.C that gave her Geass.

Akito overall falls into the meh territory for me so far, it's not very good, but it ain't very bad, just doesn't really stand out as a OVA so far overall. Shame as the idea was good, just the execution that feels a bit of a let-down, but who knows maybe the next two episodes might change that with Suzaku and C.C appearing. And yes Not Lelouch thing going on, that issue I feel is overshadowing Akito.

What do you guys think of Akito? I'm sure some have enjoyed it so far, so look forward to finding out other's view, as maybe I'm being too hard on Akito.

Iaculus what was the code Geass fic you had in mind, wouldn't mind hearing more about it.

edited 6th Mar '14 9:22:06 AM by romancechina88

@:romancechina 88

The Code Geass Wiki is a fan resource and an imperfect one at that, to be honest, but even there you can see a lot of the Napoleon/Waterloo stuff was implicitly or explicitly retconned with the information provided by Akito, both in-show and on the official web page.

The defeat at Waterloo was only ever brought up as part of some history lesson extras the TV series folks wrote for the DVD booklets, where Lelouch tries to explain stuff to Suzaku in a semi-humorous manner. The same thing goes for the story of a Britannian Empress having Napoleon poisoned, which is also presented as some sort of foul rumor or at least as part of an unofficial record.

The thing is, the first episode of Akito the Exiled has an on-screen character explicitly say that Napoleon was executed by the E.U. which overrides what had been previously described back in those older DVD booklets. Animated materials usually have more weight than printed materials, so we can safely assume it's an authorized retcon that has become part of the Code Geass background history from this point onward.

As for Akito the Exiled in general, I actually really like it. I'll admit that there's more gradual build-up than any significant payoff so far, but I think there are quite a few interesting parts.

The new director and co-writer, Kazuki Akane, is the guy who chose to focus on the Japanese and their homeland being lost. It wasn't something that Sunrise asked him to do. In fact, apparently he originally wanted to set the new OVA in Japan, not Europe. He liked that whole Japanese plight theme from the original series and wanted to use it once again.

Yet, curiously enough, he's also the same person who chose to expand on the E.U. as a setting, once it had been suggested to him, so clearly the guy's various personal interests are driving a lot of what this spin-off is like.

You can argue Leila is the true lead, considering her point of view is a framing device of sorts, despite Akito being the titular character. I agree that he's not a very interesting person per se, but I do think the circumstances of his past and the Geass mystery could make things more compelling in the future. Perhaps the same thing goes for his brother, when they properly explain their feud, although I do think he'll be overshadowed by Suzaku & co. since they're more high profile than Shin.

edited 6th Mar '14 11:19:09 AM by Souther

True that, recton tend to be a common thing in Sunrise's series. SO yeah it probably has been, considering there are rectons in Oz the reflection as well.

Very true the Code Geass wiki is a fan resource and not perfect, it is updating all the time. I still consider it a good place to get data on the series.

Yeah heard it was the directors decision to make the main character Japanese and focus on the japs, maybe he should have put it in japan, would have been more appropriate really. Maybe might have worked better overall than placing Akito in Europe.

Plus as I have said, I was hoping for something different than seeing the plight of the Japanese again since it had been done in the main series. Felt the show didn't show a lot of other people's and countries plight, mostly japans, China's was told more than shown really.

Though personally r2 I felt spent too much time on Ashford stuff rather than other stuff was the cause of some of this, that and the rushed pacing they ended up doing thanks to the timeslot change as well.

Though with OZ the reflection going to China soon that might change. Plus both sides show stuff happening aboard and in Britannia, so more exploration there is something I like about them.

Same with the EU's in ways I feel, We're told that the people hate the war, that the leaders are screwing over each other in places, but not shown, so it makes some of the drama not come off in the way the director wants it to I feel.

But the last two episodes might prove to be great, I hope so as there is some good potential with Suzaku appearing on the scene and C.C appearing at some point. Maybe we might get some answers on Geass the show didn't give. But remaining cautious for now.

But you make some good points Southner

In regards to the series' Alternate History, where was it mentioned the Chinese Federation exists because Cao Cao won the Battle of Red Cliffs/Chi Bi?

So wait, Akito takes place between seasons, not after R2? So Lelouch didn't randomly come back to life as Julius or whoever? I'm almost disappointed.