Doctor Who

The BBC should just buy the Nation estate.

I think I'd sorta like it if Doctor Who lost the rights to the Daleks and somehow Faction Paradox got them for a bit.

It'd be funny if nothing else.

Yay iconic!

I think it's a competition between writers. 'You made people cry for the Daleks? Well I'll make them cry harder.'

In 2009 the Daleks didn't even get a line.

Soren Bowie says "It's Time to Retire Doctor Who."

I got as far as him saying "science fiction" before I realized what the problem was.

Don't ever tell me the rules.

edited 29th Aug '14 2:32:36 PM by unnoun

Oh please.

Continuity is not the be all end all of good writing. Yeah, some shows do need it. A lot.

But Doctor Who really doesn't.

Pretty much.

edited 29th Aug '14 2:35:02 PM by Mukora

Soren did not disappoint

edited 29th Aug '14 2:43:43 PM by Whowho

Did you mention the rules? Now, listen. Bit of advice. Tell me the truth if you think you know it. Lay down the law if you're feeling brave. But, Daleks, never, ever tell me the rules!

Some good points from Verity on Clara's reaction to the regeneration:

Pro:

• Theory that Clara thinks she knows how it works, but she's never actually seen the process before. She thinks they all start young, and Twelve starting old and being confused is a sign that something is wrong

• If something is wrong, it may be her fault, since she's the one who requested the Time Lords give him another cycle.

• While we the fans have had eight months to look forward to Capaldi (my own point: and we had months before that to get used to the idea of Matt leaving), it's no later than Boxing Day for her. She's still wearing the same clothes she wore at Christmas dinner.

• There are lots of points where the Doctor acts in ways that lose her trust, including right at the beginning forgetting who she is.

Con:

• Clara gets scolded for being shallow about his age, which is in turn scolding the fans for being shallow, which does both a disservice. (My point: Vastra is usually shown to be 100% right at things, which gives extra credence to the scolding, even if it was refuted)

• Even after Clara refutes this, we still get shallow stuff about his age in the phone call, further sledgehammering the idea.

• There's hardly anything outside of Clara's speech that contradicts the idea, leaving us to pull all those pros out of headcanon-ry.

• It's a wasted opportunity to have an inverted dynamic where the companion knows what's going on and the Doctor is confused.

Well, I mean, there is the "who frowned me this face" bit.

Somehow Ten's quote infuriates me the most. I blame this thread for turning me against Ten.

edited 29th Aug '14 3:43:24 PM by ZeroPotential

That was the Doctor, not Clara, so it doesn't count toward her reaction. I guess.

I get the impression it's part of her thought process as well.

When Clara mentions him looking older, I don't get the impression that it's specifically about his attractiveness. The lines, as written, and as delivered, are more ambiguous.

Vastra's assumption seems more than a little unfounded.

She does point out, in the scene where she gives her rant, that it's odd that this could be a "renewal" when he's now old, asking why his hair is now grey and his face wrinkled. But that's one line of that scene, and doesn't apparently count.

She also, by the bed, asks Jenny how she'd react if Vastra "changed", which isn't directly talking about his apparent age, but is open to let you think that.

And it was a Secret Test of Character anyway (if a douchey one) to get Clara's temper out/prove she didn't care about pretty boys.

I wonder how accurate Vastra was about the Doctor using young faces as a disguise, when that scene shows her to be wrong about Clara's shallowness. She seems to be projecting a lot of her own experience onto what she's seeing between Clara and the Doctor.

...You know, I was about to say that that's a legitimate question, but then I remembered: Eleven was really old when he regenerated, except at the last moments, just before the end. Twelve is, by comparison, definitely newer.

"I DON'T LIKE THIS SHOW, CLEARLY SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH IT"

Is that about it?

I mean, I'd have to rewatch to check Jenna's delivery, but. The lines themselves don't lend as well towards the "shallow" interpretation.

I think there's some credence for the idea that Vastra's projecting though.

I wonder how the actors feel about all the scripts making fun of their appearances.

Noses. Ears. Chins. Eyebrows.

Daleks.

edited 29th Aug '14 4:11:00 PM by unnoun

I think Vastra was definitely projecting, and also I think she came across as a total cow.

edited 29th Aug '14 4:36:40 PM by tparadox

Vastra is an arse. She's probably the most self insert of all Moffat's characters in my eyes. (Where as Moffat's protagonists often resemble himself back before he found security in his current marriage, Vastra reads like a Moffat who's realised she's a prick but it doesn't stop her from being caring, ie, current Moffat) Sure that's just my interpretation, but considering Vastra spends a lot of time apologizing for being insensitive I don't think it's correct to say it's safe to assume she is a character the narrative treats as being correct.

Also I see nothing wrong with Clara freaking out that her flirty buddy is now significantly different; I think it's perfectly fair for a character to struggle with it.

The phone call scene by the way; I just rewatched it; that's really top notch brilliant writing and explores identity in an elegance that is sublime. It realise in universe the narrative desire to show a character's thoughts and juxtapose them with the character's appearance. We see Capaldi's cold visage, but hear Smith's vulnerable voice and it brilliantly solidifies the fact these are the same character. "I wasn't eavesdropping, that was me speaking on the phone, but I'm not in that phone, I'm standing right here now."

EDIT: @Zero's link. Oh for fucks sake Six don't make me loathe you again.

edited 29th Aug '14 4:53:35 PM by Whowho

I don't remember Matt saying what he thought of all the "chin" jokes.

I'm generally surprised he only received one eyebrow joke in his entire run, I always thought Matt's brow was the more distinctive part of his face.

Well, two jokes if you count the Easter Island Heads joke.