Doctor Who

Wait, if you wanted the timeline to change, doesn't that mean you agree with the Doctor's actions? Then why did you want him to get shot too?

edited 15th Nov '09 8:02:13 PM by MarcRS

Hmm, so either my mom never saw any commercials for them, or they haven't come to Canada yet.

Hmm. Do they put these things on the BBC website? Also: Can people outside Britain watch things there?

No, only people in Britain can watch them I think.

Damn.

That's right.

There is an airdate for this in the US, Australia and New Zealand, but not Canada, yet.

BBC America will be broadcasting Waters of Mars on... December 19th. -_-

@ Marc RS, His "winner by default" attitude was kind of sickening, not his "I am not bound by archaic laws, theories and traditions" shtick. On an unrelated note, did anyone else notice that he was talking to himself at the beginning of the episode? The writers are probably trying to reestablish that he's been alone for too long seen too many people die and lost his grip on what used to be important to him. Who knows how long it's been since "Planet of the Dead". That's cool. I could do with a swing back towards a humbler-and-crazier Nine attitude.

Ok... Ten is scaring me a little now. Don't get me wrong, there was something awesome with his entire I'm the last one left-speech but as you prod his rationale further, it becomes... kinda scary. Probably the first time the Monster of the Week, although it was by no means unscary, was less scary than the protagonist himself... except Family of Blood, that is. Oh, and the preview: Flipping between "awesome" "The Master?" and WTF.

@Dae Brayk: More or less what I was thinking; that the Doctor really needs to be called out on his actions and apparent moral superiority. It seems to me like its been running throughout the series in the Tenth Doctor's lifetime, and is coming to a head right here. I kind of suspect that on some level, the Doctor is actually glad that the Time Lords are now dead. He was disgusted by thier non-interference, and now he is free to perform his own one-sided narcissistic justice. And on the whole talking to himself thing, I noticed that too. Maybe its a sign of his growing detatchment from humanity. I don't think he would describe ordinary humans as "little people" in that condescending tone if he were around Rose or Donna, do you? But Apparently the Fourth Doctor did the same in the one serial when he was alone, but I'm not sure.

edited 16th Nov '09 5:48:17 PM by MarcRS

So will this be the Tenth Doctor's Moral Event Horizon? Indicative of a Face–Heel Turn or at least something to muddle up his self-righteous rants that feel so right, even if Fridge Logic kicks their reasoning apart? Here's looking forward to the Time Lords returning to balance out the potential for a god complex. Also, five bucks or a really good smoothie says that the Ood are latent Time Lords, Chamelion Arch'd into camouflage to escape the Dalek extermination units.

Question: Why do you think the flashback Dalek spared Adelaide?

Because as far as the Dalek was concerned, she was going to die anyway when the Reality Bomb was activated.

Well this thread is rapidly becoming a wall of white.

@Sneeb I'm betting that this is more of gradual 180 piroette ending in a true face-heel turn, but by then, he'll be facing the other direction, and actually be spinning back to the side of justice and decency and all that.

^ Language and math and morality are never again to be so shoddily blended.

The ood: I'm going to have to take you up on that one... I like strawberry .

The Dalek didn't—perhaps couldn't— kill Adelaide because her death was a fixed point in time, and it was fixed to happen in 2056. Killing her would have caused all sorts of nasty, unspecified time-unraveling.

edited 18th Nov '09 11:51:19 AM by DaeBrayk

But... detonating the Reality Bomb would change a lot of fixed points in time...

^Aye, but what's a timeline worth, once the reality bomb's gone off? The point is that the Dalek wouldn't want to take an unnecessary risk like that. Or maybe there's some unconscious impulse in all living creatures, including Daleks, not to change fixed points in time, but it only really kicked in close up and in person.

@Tangent 128: But the Dalek wouldn't know that.

@Dae Brayk: Well maybe the Dalek didn't need some personal subconsious knowledge of time - remember Dalek Caan? Since he could see all of time, maybe he ordered that Dalek to spare her, knowing that history would play out after the Daleks inevitably fail. That being the case, we really ought to thank the Daleks for history turning out so well, not Adelaide.

Should that still be spoiler marked?

Dae Brayk you should probably spoiler mark properly the post a few number above us. For sake of the yankees who will probably be watching this when we're on Doctor #12.

Concerning Daleks- they're time travellers too, recognising where a fixed timeline point is is presumably something they have to do too. It could have known and then, since buggering up the timeline before you really want to can have effects that don't exactly limit themselves to the future, decided to leave it be for the time being.

That Ood made me go WTF but then I saw Donna Noble in the trailer at the end and I'm thinking maybe they are going to have some, possibly just philosophical, importance in the next one.

I dunno, I kinda thought "Oh hey, it's the ood of Christmas Yet To Come" As for ten's going all A God Am I, I'm chalking that up for a Moral Event Horizon. Sure, his intentions were good(ish?) but the implications are frightening

Due to his self-awareness on the matter, I'm seeing Heroic Sacrifice on the horizon with The Doctor embracing the change of personality that comes with regeneration.

The Doctor talks to himself a lot anyway. As for the Reapers not showing up, this is too serious for them, I'd say. Something worse is coming...

edited 18th Nov '09 9:32:41 AM by Silent Hunter

I never liked the Reapers.

I wasn't a huge fan, but I liked "Father's Day", and I'm unhappy with the way they seem to be pretending that episode never happened, like it's somehow OK to start creating time paradoxes left, right and centre.

Hm, yeah. The justification why the reapers came around in Fathers Day was because the Doctor and Rose were there twice, and that weakened the time... something. Of course, why WW 2 London isn't a Reapers Nest by now, given how many Captain Jack Harknesses there is running about there, is beyond me.

I wonder why they weren't spawned in "Blink", or "The Doctor's Daughter", or "The Sound of Drums", or "Smith and Jones". It's like they never existed.

^ "Blink" and "Smith and Jones" were stable time loops, which, in all of time's wibbley wobbleyness, probably happen from time to time. "Sound of Drums" had the Paradox machine specifically to warp the timeline without causing reaper-bait holes in it, and "The Doctor's Daughter" doesn't, as far as I can remember, actually have a time-fuck in it.

Yes it does. The Doctor outright states that there was a paradox. The reason they came to Messaline was the existance of Jenny, but they got there a minute early and created her.