The Order of the Stick

Will Miko have an ability that gives her advantage on charisma saves is she deludes herself in the process?

"Roll Deception contested by your own Insight."

Nat 20 on the former, Nat 1 on the latter.

"You truly live in your own little world."

It would be hilarious to have to make a Bluff check against your own Sense Motive.

This actually gives me an idea for something in the campaign I'm running currently. One of the players came up with the idea of a character with split personally (and corresponding split class) where one side is a rogue and the other is a cleric, and which one he is depends on whether his hood is up.

He wants to have the swap as outside his control as possible, and this may be the way to do it. Maybe start each turn with a Dex Save vs a Religion check (the cleric's god wants the hood off, the rogue wants it kept off)

You probably don't want it to change constantly, so either don't make the check so often, or weigh it heavily in favor of whichever personality is currently active.

edited 22nd Sep '17 1:36:43 PM by Aetol

He wants it to occur often, or at least out of his control. I'll run it by him and refine as needed. Favoring the dominant personally is definitely in the cards. The rogue half of aware of the swapping and doesn't like it.

Current idea is Rogue half is Dex Save vs Religion check, and Cleric half Wisdom or Perception vs Sleight of Hand or Dex

Both halves have the same ability scores but with the exception of Constitution are rearranged based on which version is in control, so that would help favor the dominant side.

edited 22nd Sep '17 1:58:56 PM by sgamer82

x5 So she was actually a Marauder from Mage: The Ascension?

Alright, so picking up from where I left off yesterday, Roy's skill ranks are in Heal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge: Arcane, Knowledge: Architecture and Engineering, Knowledge: Geography, Profession: Goatherd, and Spellcraft. He also has low ranks in Spot, Listen, and Ride.

Intimidate is straight forward: it's also Intimidate in 5e. Heal translates to Medicine, and Knowledge: Arcane and Spellcraft will both translate to Arcana. Jump becomes Athletics. Roy's other Knowledge ranks don't have direct translations, but Investigation seems like a good stand-in for how he used K:A&E in his fight with Thog. Low ranks in Spot and Listen would translate into not being proficient in Perception, and low Ride into not being proficient in Animal Handling.

So our target proficiencies are Intimidate, Medicine, Arcana, Athletics, and Investigation. As a Fighter, Roy gets to choose 2 proficiencies from Acrobatics, Animal Handling, Athletics, History, Insight, Intimidation, Perception, and Survival. We'll go with Athletics and Intimidation, which leaves us short a few skills. The next place to look at picking those up is in Roy's Background, for which I think the closest match comes from the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide: the Inheritor. This background gives Roy proficiency in Survival, and his choice of Arcana, History, and Religion, so we'll take Arcana, reflecting his history with originally training to be a wizard. It also gives him proficiency with a gaming set or musical instrument of his choice, and an additional language. I see Roy being a member of the Dragonchess Club back in school, so we'll go with that. I don't recall Roy ever indicating that he could speak any languages besides Common, so we'll leave that choice up in the air right now. Roy also has a skill proficiency of choice from being a human, so we'll use that for Investigation. I'd also forgotten that the Battle Master grants a tool proficiency when you choose it, so we'll use that for Cartographer's Tools. Gotta use that sextant, bro.

The Inheritor's background feature is what really drew me to it for Roy, though, as the Inheritor starts the game with an inherited item or idea, which may be used for story hooks, and may grow in power over time. Roy's inheritance in this case are his family sword, which ties nicely in with it becoming a Weapon of Legacy later on, and the Blood Feud with Xykon which set the whole story in motion.

That covers about everything but skill ranks in Medicine, which has never been an exactly defining trait for Roy, and his solid Wisdom score means he would have a bonus to those checks anyway even without proficiency, so we'll leave it at that.

Normally I'd stop there and not dig into equipment, but in this case, Roy's sword is a significantly more important item than most, so let's see how we might modify it, too. First off, the +5 is out. Magic weapons top out at +3 in 5e, with most weapons that have additional effects and bonuses only coming in at +2, so we'll go with that, and give it an additional +2d6 damage against undead creatures. As its power as Roy's inheritance increases, it will also start manifesting the Weapon of Legacy powers it has thus far displayed, including the ability to summon the sword to his hand as a bonus action, ala the Eldritch Knight's Weapon Bond.

Ladies and gentlemen: Roy.

The Aura from Roy's Ancestral Weapon seems to be a full heal at cast plus damage and damage resistance buff and speed buff, and not just a break Charm effect as all seen damage on Roy is gone and he's much faster.

Miko: (GITP: "Feats: Cleave, Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Katana, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (two off-hand attacks per round), Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, Quick Draw, Stunning Fist, Track, Two-Weapon Fighting")

Monk (Way of the Open Hand) all the way up to level 6 for Evasion. That also gives her Stunning Strike and Extra Attack. First two levels are kind of a waste because of the bonuses to unarmored combat, but I think it's explained in story that she was a monk first and then retrained. Paladin (Oath of Devotion) level 8ish, to get her up to where the Order are, though none of the Paladin class features above 3 are particularly evident. For the Fighting Style, Paladins unfortunately don't get access to Two-Weapon Fighting (unless she also takes a level of Fighter, but maybe Great Weapon fighting for when she uses the katana one-handed)

Feats: Martial Adept (Sweeping Attack for Cleave, Goading Attack because it's Miko), Great Weapon Master (for Power Attack), Dual Wielder (for Two-Weapon Fighting)

These two classes synergize really badly, from the wasted Monk features to the Extra Attacks that don't stack to the worst MAD imaginable (Wis and Dex for Monk abilities, Cha and Str for Paladin, leaving nothing to put into Con). From the looks of things she can't use any of her Martial Arts features if she's even holding a katana (not a "monk weapon"), and I can't for the life of me find a way to get her up from "Armour proficiency: none" to wearing the kind of stuff we see her wearing without spending 6 feats on it..

Funnily enough if she took her first level in Fighter, picked Two-Weapon Fighting, and fought with two wakizashis (shortswords = monk weapons), that would fix a lot of problems. OR you could just play her without any armour, relying on her Unarmored Defense (and, er, her abysmal Con...)

Miko, huh? Alright, so we start with human and monk, since that's canonically what she started out as. the GITP thread clocks her at Monk 2+ and Paladin 10-14. Let's call her level 14 total to match Roy. We'll need 5th level Monk, minimum, to match Stunning Fist with Stunning Strike, which leaves 9 levels for Paladin, but I'm actually going to go one level further to Monk 6/Paladin 8 for the next monk tradition feature. We'll come back to that.

Starting as a monk gives Miko precisely 0 armor proficiencies and only simple weapons and shortswords, but multiclassing to paladin grants her light and medium armor, shields, and all martial weapons, as well. She also has a tool proficiency as a monk, which we'll come back to. As a human she gets a feat at character creation, which she'll use on Martial Adept to get two Maneuvers from the Battle Master archetype. She'll take Sweeping Attack in place of Cleave, and Disarming Attack because that seems appropriate for a paladin in lieu of any more specific feats to match.

Miko's known skills are Knowledge: Planes, and Survival. Knowledge: Plains doesn't have a direct translation in 5e, but could be considered an Arcana or Religion check depending on which planes are in question. As a monk, Miko chooses 2 from Acrobatics, Athletics, History, Insight, Religion, and Stealth. We'll have her take Religion, being A) fanatically devout, and B) having just established that it's one of our options for approximating Knowledge: Planes. Insight and Stealth are both right out with her, which leaves us with Acrobatics, Athletics, or History. We'll probably go with Athletics here. She can use her bonus skill as a human to pick up Survival, so let's move on to her background.

I'm seeing a few options here at first blush. Acolyte, Soldier, Urchin, Faction Agent, or Knight of the Order. Knight of the Order seems like the best fit for her, being a member of the Sapphire Guard, and it grants her proficiency in Persuasion, plus one from Arcana, History, Nature, or Religion, depending on the nature of her order. We'll take Religion here and swap the Religion we took as a monk to... Acrobatics, I think. Persuasion isn't really her style, but maybe she got the DM to let her trade it for Intimidation. Her background feature, Knightly Regard, means that she can receive aid from other members of her order and its allies.

So back to class levels. Being a 6th level monk means she gets:

• Unarmored Defense: AC = 10 + Dex + Wis when not wearing armor or wielding a shield
• Martial Arts: 1d6 unarmed/monk weapon attacks using choice of Str or Dex for attack and damage rolls, and able to make an unarmed attack as a bonus action after attacking with a monk weapon or unarmed strike.
• +15 ft. of Unarmored Movement: Exactly what it says.
• Deflect Missiles: Use reaction to reduce ranged weapon attack damage by 1d10 + Dex + Monk level, catching it if the damage is reduced to 0, 1 Ki point to throw a caught missile back at attacker.
• Slow Fall,: Reaction to reduce falling damage by 5x Monk level.
• Extra Attack: Exactly what it says.
• Stunning Strike: 1 Ki point on melee weapon attack to stun on failed Con save.
• Ki-Empowered Strikes: Unarmed attacks are magic for overcoming damage resistance.
• An ability score increase
• and two Monastic Tradition features.

The important question here is what her monastic tradition is. The obvious go-to would be the Way of the Open Fist, being the most "punch stuff better" archetype, but instead, I'm going to go to Unearthed Arcana, and more specifically, the Way of the Kensei.

As a Kensei monk, Miko gains proficiency with 3 martial weapon of her choice, gaining a couple special abilities along with them. The important thing is that this lets her take proficiency with her katana and wakizashi, which we'll consider a refluffed longsword and scimitar, respectively. We'll also throw in the longbow, since one of the three has to be a ranged weapon. This isn't a huge buff, since she'll ultimately have all martial weapon proficiencies from multiclassing to paladin, but it lets her get a head start on them, and she can only use some of her Kensei features with the weapons she chose here.

Most importantly, 6th level as a Kensei monk grant her One With the Blade, which extends her Ki-Empowered Strikes feature to attacks with the weapons she chose at 3rd level, and lets her spend a Ki point deal extra damage equal to her Martial Arts die with them.

The main question remaining now is what she's doing with that ability score increase, and having picked up Kensei supposedly specifically to focus on fighting with weapons, I'm going to say she spent it on the Dual Wielder feat. This gives her a +1 AC bonus when dual wielding, and lets her dual wield with non-light weapons, including her katana.

On to the paladin side. Being an 8th level multi-class paladin, Miko picks up:

• Divine Sense: Use an action to detect type and location of celestials, fiends, undead, and consecrated or desecrated ground within 30 feet, 1 + Cha mon/day.
• Lay on Hands: Heal with a touch from a pool equal to 5 x paladin level (40 for Miko), or use 5 points to heal a condition.
• Fighting Style: Defense: +1 to AC when wearing armor, since paladins don't have access to the Two Weapon Fighting style.
• Divine Smite: Expend spell slot to add 2d8 + 1d8 per slot level above 1st radiant damage to melee weapon attack, +1d8 if target is a fiend or undead.
• Divine Health: Immune to disease.
• Extra Attack: Exactly what it says, doesn't stack with the one she already got as a monk.
• Aura of Protection: Add Cha mod to saving throws for self and allies within 10 feet.
• Two Sacred Oath features
• Two ability score increases
• Four 1st level spell slots and three 2nd level spell slots

Miko strikes me as an Oath of Vengeance type. At 8th level, this gives her the following spells always prepared and not counting against her prepared limit: bane, hunter's mark, hold person, misty step. It also gives her two options for Channel Divinity: Abjure Enemy, to frighten foes, and Vow of Enmity, to gain advantage on attack rolls against a chosen target for 1 minute. It also grants her Relentless Avenger, which lets her move after making an opportunity attack without provoking one herself.

One of her two ability score increases will go into the Heavily Armored feat to get her proficiency with heavy armor, while the other could be either spent on another feat (I'd lean toward Sentinel, which among its other benefits causes her to get opportunity attacks even if the enemy disengages, giving it good synergy with Relentless Avenger), or on an actual ability score increase.

The conflict with the monk and paladin's conflicting stats isn't actually as much of a problem as it appears at first glance. Monks need Wisdom as part of their Unarmored Defense (which Miko doesn't care about, because she wears armor) and for their features that involve a DC (none of Miko's do). Monks favor Dex for their attack rolls because they rely on it for AC from Unarmored Defense, but we just established that she doesn't need UD, so she's just as well of focusing on Strength instead. She can functionally ignore both Dex and Wis without suffering much at all. The main thing she's still missing at this point is Power Attack, but its 5e analogue, Great Weapon Master, only works with heavy weapons, which precludes her as a dual wielder.

This leaves Miko with up to AC 20 (18 from plate + 1 from Dual Wielder, +1 from Defensive Fighting Style). She would have 2 1d8 + Str attacks from her katana and a 1d6 from her wakizashi (no modifier damage without TWF Style), although she could wield two katanas just as easily. She can also Smite and use One with the Blade at the same time, for a single attack dealing up to 4d8 + 1d6 + Str (+1d8 if undead or fiendish) in one hit.

Add her magic and healing into the mix, and you've got an implacable huntress who can't be put down, slowed down, or escaped, and still has options even if you manage to disarm her.

edited 23rd Sep '17 5:14:45 PM by Wryte

I hate to interrupt this theorycrafting session, but we have a new comic.

#1100: Into the Tunnels

Elan has truly found a kindred spirit.

New girl's farming some roleplaying XP to catch up to the party.

Wow, Belkar is an ass. Not really news, but still true. Which is not at all to say I didn't laugh, because I definitely did.

I was reading the forums and it looks like someone pointed out a mistake by the Giant. Mr. Scruffy is right next to Belkar in panels 6 and 8, but is gone in the larger shot in panel 7.

Yeah, this definitely has me thinking she's the Replacement Goldfish, taking Durkon's place when he doesn't come back. Elan outright calling her the "new girl" is pretty on-the-nose.

Not only does it make sense that reviving Durkon would be incredibly difficult at this point, but it also helps with the same gender disparity in the order that Miko was originally supposed to correct by joining them.

edited 25th Sep '17 7:30:28 PM by TobiasDrake

Lets hope our new Dwarf works out better than Miko did.

On the bright side, if Minrah survives, she's going to be leveling really quickly.

I doubt she'll join. I don't see any newcomers happening, especially ones who were only just introduced.

It never occurred to me, but Dwarves have Darkvision. Their tunnels might not be lit, which would be an obstacle for the party.

Elan outright calling her the "new girl" is pretty on-the-nose.

When did he do that?

There was a popular forum theory that Veldrina would join too. Well, she didn't, and I also doubt Minrah would. She is just too low level to catch up with the rest of the Order, even with faster leveling. Even Celia didn't stay with them for more than one arc.

The idea that now, halfway through the penultimate storyarc, a newly-introduced character could replace a main character that has been with us for five out of seven books, and whose importance, not as a bag of HP with spells but as a moral pillar, has just been underlined two comics ago, feels more than a little unlikely to me.

Even if the new girl ended up following the Order, providing cures and hammers as needed, she would never replace Durkon. If anything, her presence would reinforce what Roy just said: they didn't just need a cleric, they needed Durkon.

edited 26th Sep '17 12:23:29 AM by Cozzer