Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 7 (click to see context) from:
* ValuesDissonance: As one can guess, most of Spengler views show in the book apart from those listed under FairForItsDay wouldn't fly well with readers these days - his opposition to democracy, his support for "Caesars"/dictators, his open disgust towards the press and his dislike of free market capitalism ''and'' socialism (outside of [[NoTrueScotsman "prussian" socialism]], that is) will probably turn away quite a few readers from it.
to:
* ValuesDissonance: As one can guess, most of Spengler Spengler's views show shown in the book apart from those listed under FairForItsDay wouldn't fly well with readers these days - his opposition to democracy, his support for "Caesars"/dictators, his open disgust towards the press and his dislike of free market capitalism ''and'' socialism (outside of [[NoTrueScotsman "prussian" socialism]], that is) will probably turn away quite a few readers from it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 3 (click to see context) from:
** At a time when antisemites would spread crazy, vitriolic conspiracy theories about Jews controlling the world, Spengler was adamantly opposed to such sentiments. He acknowledged that the Jews had a different culture than mainstream Germans, but he strongly disagreed with the notion that they were responsible for society's ills and felt it was best to let them live their lives in peace. He reasoned that unfairly singling them out would be ill-advised, not just because the various Jewish business-owners, bankers, intellectuals, and artists played a valuable role in German society, but also because it would needlessly create suffering that would eventually affect all levels of society. [[VindicatedByHistory He ended up being vindicated on this matter]], given that continued Nazi rule resulted in the Holocaust and the veritable destruction of Germany, leading to the pointless deaths of many Jews and Germans alike.
to:
** At a time when antisemites would spread crazy, vitriolic conspiracy theories about Jews controlling the world, Spengler was adamantly opposed to such sentiments. He acknowledged that the Jews had a different culture than mainstream Germans, but he strongly disagreed with the notion that they were responsible for society's ills and felt it was best to let them live their lives in peace. He reasoned that unfairly singling them out would be ill-advised, not just because the various Jewish business-owners, bankers, intellectuals, and artists played a valuable role in German society, but also because it would needlessly create suffering that would eventually affect all levels of society. [[VindicatedByHistory He ended up being vindicated on this matter]], given that continued Nazi rule resulted in the [[HarsherInHindsight Holocaust and the veritable destruction of Germany, leading to the pointless deaths of many Jews and Germans alike. alike.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 7 (click to see context) from:
* ValuesDissonance: As one can guess, most of Spengler views show in the book apart from those listed under FairForItsDay wouldn't fly well with readers these days - his opposition to democracy, his support for "Caesars"/dictators, his open disgust towards the press and his dislike for free market capitalism ''and'' socialism (outside of [[NoTrueScotsman "prussian" socialism]], that is) will probably turn away quite a few readers from it.
to:
* ValuesDissonance: As one can guess, most of Spengler views show in the book apart from those listed under FairForItsDay wouldn't fly well with readers these days - his opposition to democracy, his support for "Caesars"/dictators, his open disgust towards the press and his dislike for of free market capitalism ''and'' socialism (outside of [[NoTrueScotsman "prussian" socialism]], that is) will probably turn away quite a few readers from it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* ValuesDissonance: As one can guess, most of Spengler views show in the book apart from those listed under FairForItsDay wouldn't fly well with readers these days - his opposition to democracy, his support for "Caesars"/dictators, his open disgust towards the press and his dislike for free market capitalism ''and'' socialism (outside of [[NoTrueScotsman "prussian" socialism]], that is) will probably turn away quite a few readers from it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 4 (click to see context) from:
** To Spengler's credit, race doesn't play a big part in his observations of historical currents. His pessimistic outlook on humanity is nothing if not egalitarian. In fact, his insistence that western civilization wasn't inherently unique or superior compared to past non-European ones was fairly radical for the time, given that academia was still predominantly eurocentric (i.e., history focused primarily on European civilization and subscribed to the notion of the white race's superiority).
to:
** To Spengler's credit, race doesn't play a big part in his observations of historical currents. His pessimistic outlook on humanity is nothing if not egalitarian. In fact, his insistence that western Western civilization wasn't inherently unique or superior compared to past non-European ones was fairly radical for the time, given that academia was still predominantly eurocentric (i.e., history focused primarily on European civilization and subscribed to the notion of the white race's superiority).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 1,3 (click to see context) from:
* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: Spengler himself did this with several historical characters. For example, in his opinion Emperor UsefulNotes/{{Augustus}} wasn't really a great man and rather lead by his soldiers (UsefulNotes/JuliusCaesar's veterans) than the other way round.
* FairForItsDay: At a time when antisemites would spread crazy, vitriolic conspiracy theories about Jews controlling the world, Spengler was adamantly opposed to such sentiments. He acknowledged that the Jews had a different culture than mainstream Germans, but he strongly disagreed with the notion that they were responsible for society's ills and felt it was best to let them live their lives in peace. He reasoned that unfairly singling them out would be ill-advised, not just because the various Jewish business-owners, bankers, intellectuals, and artists played a valuable role in German society, but also because it would needlessly create suffering that would eventually affect all levels of society. [[VindicatedByHistory He ended up being vindicated on this matter]], given that continued Nazi rule resulted in the holocaust and the veritable destruction of Germany, leading to the pointless deaths of many Jews and Germans alike.
** To Spengler's credit, race doesn't play a big part in his observations of historical currents. His pessimistic outlook on humanity is nothing if not egalitarian. In fact, his insistence that western civilization wasn't inherently unique or superior compared to past non-European ones was fairly radical for the time, given that academia was still predominantly eurocentric (IE, history focused primarily on european civilization and subscribed to the notion of the white man's superiority).
* FairForItsDay: At a time when antisemites would spread crazy, vitriolic conspiracy theories about Jews controlling the world, Spengler was adamantly opposed to such sentiments. He acknowledged that the Jews had a different culture than mainstream Germans, but he strongly disagreed with the notion that they were responsible for society's ills and felt it was best to let them live their lives in peace. He reasoned that unfairly singling them out would be ill-advised, not just because the various Jewish business-owners, bankers, intellectuals, and artists played a valuable role in German society, but also because it would needlessly create suffering that would eventually affect all levels of society. [[VindicatedByHistory He ended up being vindicated on this matter]], given that continued Nazi rule resulted in the holocaust and the veritable destruction of Germany, leading to the pointless deaths of many Jews and Germans alike.
** To Spengler's credit, race doesn't play a big part in his observations of historical currents. His pessimistic outlook on humanity is nothing if not egalitarian. In fact, his insistence that western civilization wasn't inherently unique or superior compared to past non-European ones was fairly radical for the time, given that academia was still predominantly eurocentric (IE, history focused primarily on european civilization and subscribed to the notion of the white man's superiority).
to:
* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: Spengler himself did this with several historical characters. For example, in his opinion Emperor UsefulNotes/{{Augustus}} wasn't really a great man and rather lead led by his soldiers (UsefulNotes/JuliusCaesar's veterans) than the other way round.
*FairForItsDay: FairForItsDay:
** At a time when antisemites would spread crazy, vitriolic conspiracy theories about Jews controlling the world, Spengler was adamantly opposed to such sentiments. He acknowledged that the Jews had a different culture than mainstream Germans, but he strongly disagreed with the notion that they were responsible for society's ills and felt it was best to let them live their lives in peace. He reasoned that unfairly singling them out would be ill-advised, not just because the various Jewish business-owners, bankers, intellectuals, and artists played a valuable role in German society, but also because it would needlessly create suffering that would eventually affect all levels of society. [[VindicatedByHistory He ended up being vindicated on this matter]], given that continued Nazi rule resulted in theholocaust Holocaust and the veritable destruction of Germany, leading to the pointless deaths of many Jews and Germans alike.
** To Spengler's credit, race doesn't play a big part in his observations of historical currents. His pessimistic outlook on humanity is nothing if not egalitarian. In fact, his insistence that western civilization wasn't inherently unique or superior compared to past non-European ones was fairly radical for the time, given that academia was still predominantly eurocentric(IE, (i.e., history focused primarily on european European civilization and subscribed to the notion of the white man's race's superiority).
*
** At a time when antisemites would spread crazy, vitriolic conspiracy theories about Jews controlling the world, Spengler was adamantly opposed to such sentiments. He acknowledged that the Jews had a different culture than mainstream Germans, but he strongly disagreed with the notion that they were responsible for society's ills and felt it was best to let them live their lives in peace. He reasoned that unfairly singling them out would be ill-advised, not just because the various Jewish business-owners, bankers, intellectuals, and artists played a valuable role in German society, but also because it would needlessly create suffering that would eventually affect all levels of society. [[VindicatedByHistory He ended up being vindicated on this matter]], given that continued Nazi rule resulted in the
** To Spengler's credit, race doesn't play a big part in his observations of historical currents. His pessimistic outlook on humanity is nothing if not egalitarian. In fact, his insistence that western civilization wasn't inherently unique or superior compared to past non-European ones was fairly radical for the time, given that academia was still predominantly eurocentric
Deleted line(s) 6 (click to see context) :
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Deleted line(s) 2 (click to see context) :
** Also for Spengler himself.
Changed line(s) 6 (click to see context) from:
* HarsherInHindsight: After another round of vicious wars, America has pretty much become the dominant power of the West as per Rome just like Spengler predicted. The rise of far-right populism and autocracy has led to concerns that the "winter time" of civilization has indeed arrived.
to:
* HarsherInHindsight: After another round of vicious wars, America has pretty much become the dominant power of the West as per Rome just like Spengler predicted. The rise of far-right populism and autocracy has led to concerns that the "winter time" of civilization has indeed arrived.predicted.
----
----
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 5,6 (click to see context) from:
* HarsherInHindsight: After another round of vicious wars, America has pretty much become the dominant power of the West as per Rome just like Spengler predicted. The rise of far-right populism and autocracy has led to concerns that the "winter time" of civilization has indeed arrived.
* [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff Russians Love Oswald Spengler]]: There's a small group of people (but consider that nowadays few people read Spengler in general) in Russia who like Spengler because he predicted that in the future, a new culture might develop in Russia (and probably bring the country to greatness).
* [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff Russians Love Oswald Spengler]]: There's a small group of people (but consider that nowadays few people read Spengler in general) in Russia who like Spengler because he predicted that in the future, a new culture might develop in Russia (and probably bring the country to greatness).
to:
* GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff: There's a small group of people (but consider that nowadays few people read Spengler in general) in Russia who like Spengler because he predicted that in the future, a new culture might develop in Russia (and probably bring the country to greatness).
* HarsherInHindsight: After another round of vicious wars, America has pretty much become the dominant power of the West as per Rome just like Spengler predicted. The rise of far-right populism and autocracy has led to concerns that the "winter time" of civilization has indeedarrived.
* [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff Russians Love Oswald Spengler]]: There's a small group of people (but consider that nowadays few people read Spengler in general) in Russia who like Spengler because he predicted that in the future, a new culture might develop in Russia (and probably bring the country to greatness).arrived.
* HarsherInHindsight: After another round of vicious wars, America has pretty much become the dominant power of the West as per Rome just like Spengler predicted. The rise of far-right populism and autocracy has led to concerns that the "winter time" of civilization has indeed
* [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff Russians Love Oswald Spengler]]: There's a small group of people (but consider that nowadays few people read Spengler in general) in Russia who like Spengler because he predicted that in the future, a new culture might develop in Russia (and probably bring the country to greatness).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 4 (click to see context) from:
** To Spengler's credit, race doesn't play a big part in his observations of historical currents. His pessimistic outlook on humanity is nothing if not egalitarian. In fact, his insistence that western civilization wasn't inherently unique or superior compared to past non-European ones was fairly radical for the time, given that academia of the time was still predominantly eurocentric and subscribed to notions of the white man's superiority.
to:
** To Spengler's credit, race doesn't play a big part in his observations of historical currents. His pessimistic outlook on humanity is nothing if not egalitarian. In fact, his insistence that western civilization wasn't inherently unique or superior compared to past non-European ones was fairly radical for the time, given that academia of the time was still predominantly eurocentric (IE, history focused primarily on european civilization and subscribed to notions the notion of the white man's superiority.superiority).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 5 (click to see context) from:
* HarsherInHindsight: After another round of vicious wars, America has pretty much become the dominant power of the West as per Rome just like Spengler predicted
to:
* HarsherInHindsight: After another round of vicious wars, America has pretty much become the dominant power of the West as per Rome just like Spengler predictedpredicted. The rise of far-right populism and autocracy has led to concerns that the "winter time" of civilization has indeed arrived.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 3 (click to see context) from:
* FairForItsDay: At a time when antisemites would spread crazy, vitriolic conspiracy theories about Jews controlling the world, Spengler was adamantly opposed to such sentiments. He acknowledged that the Jews had a different culture than mainstream Germans, but he strongly disagreed with the notion that they were responsible for society's ills and felt it was best to let them live their lives in peace. He reasoned that unfairly singling them out would be ill-advised, not just because the various Jewish business-owners, bankers, intellectuals, and artists played a valuable role in German society, but also because it would needlessly create suffering that would eventually effect all levels of society. [[VindicatedByHistory He ended up being vindicated on this matter]], given that continued Nazi rule resulted in the holocaust and the veritable destruction of Germany, leading to the pointless deaths of many Jews and Germans alike.
to:
* FairForItsDay: At a time when antisemites would spread crazy, vitriolic conspiracy theories about Jews controlling the world, Spengler was adamantly opposed to such sentiments. He acknowledged that the Jews had a different culture than mainstream Germans, but he strongly disagreed with the notion that they were responsible for society's ills and felt it was best to let them live their lives in peace. He reasoned that unfairly singling them out would be ill-advised, not just because the various Jewish business-owners, bankers, intellectuals, and artists played a valuable role in German society, but also because it would needlessly create suffering that would eventually effect affect all levels of society. [[VindicatedByHistory He ended up being vindicated on this matter]], given that continued Nazi rule resulted in the holocaust and the veritable destruction of Germany, leading to the pointless deaths of many Jews and Germans alike.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 3 (click to see context) from:
* FairForItsDay: In a time, when antisemites would spread the craziest conspiracy theories about the eeeevul Jews, Spengler pretty much only said "they have a very different culture than us, we can't really understand each other (with very few exceptions), and messing around with each other will only lead to problems".
to:
* FairForItsDay: In At a time, time when antisemites would spread the craziest crazy, vitriolic conspiracy theories about Jews controlling the eeeevul Jews, world, Spengler pretty much only said "they have was adamantly opposed to such sentiments. He acknowledged that the Jews had a very different culture than us, we can't really understand each other (with very few exceptions), and messing around mainstream Germans, but he strongly disagreed with each other will only lead the notion that they were responsible for society's ills and felt it was best to problems".let them live their lives in peace. He reasoned that unfairly singling them out would be ill-advised, not just because the various Jewish business-owners, bankers, intellectuals, and artists played a valuable role in German society, but also because it would needlessly create suffering that would eventually effect all levels of society. [[VindicatedByHistory He ended up being vindicated on this matter]], given that continued Nazi rule resulted in the holocaust and the veritable destruction of Germany, leading to the pointless deaths of many Jews and Germans alike.
** To Spengler's credit, race doesn't play a big part in his observations of historical currents. His pessimistic outlook on humanity is nothing if not egalitarian. In fact, his insistence that western civilization wasn't inherently unique or superior compared to past non-European ones was fairly radical for the time, given that academia of the time was still predominantly eurocentric and subscribed to notions of the white man's superiority.
** To Spengler's credit, race doesn't play a big part in his observations of historical currents. His pessimistic outlook on humanity is nothing if not egalitarian. In fact, his insistence that western civilization wasn't inherently unique or superior compared to past non-European ones was fairly radical for the time, given that academia of the time was still predominantly eurocentric and subscribed to notions of the white man's superiority.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Renamed trope. Removing because Artistic License History is not YMMV and does not belong on YMMV pages.
Deleted line(s) 3,4 (click to see context) :
* YouFailHistoryForever: A common criticism of the book is the cultural inaccuracies in it on other cultures. For example, with the exception of Manichaeanism, NONE of the "Magian" religions believed in BlackAndWhiteMorality.
** His statement that capitulation to the Mongols meant widespread destruction of those who surrender. Reality was actually the ''opposite''. Those cities which capitulated without a fight were largely spared from slaughter and were peacefully incorporated into the Mongols' conquest. It was those cities who ''resisted'' who were massacred. This was [[MakeAnExampleOfThem done deliberately as an example]]; join us willingly and you're treated well. Make us conquer you and you'll pay the price.
** His statement that capitulation to the Mongols meant widespread destruction of those who surrender. Reality was actually the ''opposite''. Those cities which capitulated without a fight were largely spared from slaughter and were peacefully incorporated into the Mongols' conquest. It was those cities who ''resisted'' who were massacred. This was [[MakeAnExampleOfThem done deliberately as an example]]; join us willingly and you're treated well. Make us conquer you and you'll pay the price.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 1 (click to see context) from:
* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Spengler himself did this with several historical characters. For example, in his opinion Emperor UsefulNotes/{{Augustus}} wasn't really a great man and rather lead by his soldiers (UsefulNotes/JuliusCaesar's veterans) than the other way round.
to:
* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: Spengler himself did this with several historical characters. For example, in his opinion Emperor UsefulNotes/{{Augustus}} wasn't really a great man and rather lead by his soldiers (UsefulNotes/JuliusCaesar's veterans) than the other way round.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 4 (click to see context) from:
** His statement that capitulation to the Mongols meant widespread destruction of those who surrender. Reality was actually the ''opposite''. Those cities which capitulated without a fight were largely spared from slaughter and were peacefully incorporated into the Mongols' conquest. It was those cities who ''resisted'' who were massacred. This was done deliberately as an example; join us willingly and you're treated well. Make us conquer you and you'll pay the price.
to:
** His statement that capitulation to the Mongols meant widespread destruction of those who surrender. Reality was actually the ''opposite''. Those cities which capitulated without a fight were largely spared from slaughter and were peacefully incorporated into the Mongols' conquest. It was those cities who ''resisted'' who were massacred. This was [[MakeAnExampleOfThem done deliberately as an example; example]]; join us willingly and you're treated well. Make us conquer you and you'll pay the price.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 1 (click to see context) from:
* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Spengler himself did this with several historical characters. For example, in his opinion Emperor UsefulNotes/{{Augustus}} wasn't really a great man and rather lead by his soldiers (Creator/GaiusJuliusCaesar's veterans) than the other way round.
to:
* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Spengler himself did this with several historical characters. For example, in his opinion Emperor UsefulNotes/{{Augustus}} wasn't really a great man and rather lead by his soldiers (Creator/GaiusJuliusCaesar's (UsefulNotes/JuliusCaesar's veterans) than the other way round.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Deleted line(s) 7 (click to see context) :
* MagnumOpus: Of Oswald Spengler.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 1 (click to see context) from:
* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Spengler himself did this with several historical characters. For example, in his opinion Emperor UsefulNotes/Augustus wasn't really a great man and rather lead by his soldiers (Creator/GaiusJuliusCaesar's veterans) than the other way round.
to:
* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Spengler himself did this with several historical characters. For example, in his opinion Emperor UsefulNotes/Augustus UsefulNotes/{{Augustus}} wasn't really a great man and rather lead by his soldiers (Creator/GaiusJuliusCaesar's veterans) than the other way round.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 1 (click to see context) from:
* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Spengler himself did this with several historical characters. For example, in his opinion EmperorAugustus wasn't really a great man and rather lead by his soldiers (GaiusJuliusCaesar's veterans) than the other way round.
to:
* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Spengler himself did this with several historical characters. For example, in his opinion EmperorAugustus Emperor UsefulNotes/Augustus wasn't really a great man and rather lead by his soldiers (GaiusJuliusCaesar's (Creator/GaiusJuliusCaesar's veterans) than the other way round.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 4 (click to see context) from:
** His statement that capitulation to the Mongols meant widespread destruction of those who surrender. Reality was actually the ''opposite''. Those cities which capitulated without a fight were largely spared from slaughter and were peacefully incorporated into the Mongols' conquest. It was those cities who ''resisted'' who were massacred.
to:
** His statement that capitulation to the Mongols meant widespread destruction of those who surrender. Reality was actually the ''opposite''. Those cities which capitulated without a fight were largely spared from slaughter and were peacefully incorporated into the Mongols' conquest. It was those cities who ''resisted'' who were massacred. This was done deliberately as an example; join us willingly and you're treated well. Make us conquer you and you'll pay the price.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** His statement that capitulation to the Mongols meant widespread destruction of those who surrender. Reality was actually the ''opposite''. Those cities which capitulated without a fight were largely spared from slaughter and were peacefully incorporated into the Mongols' conquest. It was those cities who ''resisted'' who were massacred.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* YouFailHistoryForever: A common criticism of the book is the cultural inaccuracies in it on other cultures. For example, with the exception of Manichaeanism, NONE of the "Magian" religions believed in BlackAndWhiteMorality.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Moved to here because it was YMMV.
Added DiffLines:
* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Spengler himself did this with several historical characters. For example, in his opinion EmperorAugustus wasn't really a great man and rather lead by his soldiers (GaiusJuliusCaesar's veterans) than the other way round.
** Also for Spengler himself.
** Also for Spengler himself.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 4 (click to see context) from:
* TrueArtIsNotPopular: Also said to be typical of the West.
to:
* TrueArtIsNotPopular: Also said to be typical [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff Russians Love Oswald Spengler]]: There's a small group of people (but consider that nowadays few people read Spengler in general) in Russia who like Spengler because he predicted that in the West.future, a new culture might develop in Russia (and probably bring the country to greatness).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 3 (click to see context) from:
* MagnumOpus: Of Oswald Spengler.
to:
* MagnumOpus: Of Oswald Spengler.Spengler.
* TrueArtIsNotPopular: Also said to be typical of the West.
* TrueArtIsNotPopular: Also said to be typical of the West.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 1 (click to see context) from:
* HarsherInHindsight: After another round of vicious wars, America has pretty much become the dominant power of the West as per Rome just like Spengler predicted
to:
* FairForItsDay: In a time, when antisemites would spread the craziest conspiracy theories about the eeeevul Jews, Spengler pretty much only said "they have a very different culture than us, we can't really understand each other (with very few exceptions), and messing around with each other will only lead to problems".
* HarsherInHindsight: After another round of vicious wars, America has pretty much become the dominant power of the West as per Rome just like Spenglerpredictedpredicted
* MagnumOpus: Of Oswald Spengler.
* HarsherInHindsight: After another round of vicious wars, America has pretty much become the dominant power of the West as per Rome just like Spengler
* MagnumOpus: Of Oswald Spengler.
