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* EpicRiff: "Roses For The Dead", "Recovery", "Serpents in Solitude", "Sixteen" and "Spinning Over The Island".
* FirstInstallmentWins: Casually Dressed & Deep in Conversation remains their most critically acclaimed and popular album.
** There are also a number of people who believe that their first or second EP is this trope, due to considering the band to have sold out by [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks removing the screaming on the rerecorded Juno]].
** Some fans now consider "Conduit" to be their best release. It's certainly their darkest and heaviest release.
* HypeBacklash: So much. The band just saw themselves as one of many emo bands, but received an unprecedented amount of exposure thanks to good management. The hype sticker for "Casually Dressed And Deep In Conversation" suggested they were the next Nirvana, and they were compared to Iron Maiden at the time. By the time of Hours, they were being seen as a band for teenage girls due to their presence on Radio 1 and Top Of The Pops. Due to the following album Tales Don't Tell Themselves' "Into Oblivion" being more alt-rock than their previous output, it killed their credibility. Memory And Humanity was hyped up as being the band's best since "Casually Dressed", despite being a rather different style of music. Furthermore, the reviews claiming that "Conduit" was the band's best work yet despite changing style yet again didn't go down well. Basically, they have been the victims of their own publicity for their entire career, rather than being judged on their music's merits.
* {{Narm}}: "Sonny", Oh god how Matt over-sings here.

to:

* EpicRiff: "Roses For The for the Dead", "Recovery", "Serpents in Solitude", "Sixteen" and "Spinning Over The the Island".
* FirstInstallmentWins: Casually ''Casually Dressed & Deep in Conversation Conversation'' remains their most critically acclaimed and popular album.
** There are also a number of people who believe that their first or second EP is this trope, due to considering the band to have sold out by [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks removing the screaming on the rerecorded Juno]].
"Juno"]].
** Some fans now consider "Conduit" ''Conduit'' to be their best release. It's certainly their darkest and heaviest release.
heaviest.
* HypeBacklash: So much. The band just saw themselves as one of many emo bands, but received an unprecedented amount of exposure thanks to good management. The hype sticker for "Casually ''Casually Dressed And & Deep In Conversation" in Conversation'' suggested they were the next Nirvana, Music/{{Nirvana}}, and they were compared to Iron Maiden Music/IronMaiden at the time. By the time of Hours, ''Hours'', they were being seen as a band for teenage girls due to their presence on Radio 1 and Top Of The Pops. ''Series/TopOfThePops''. Due to the following album Tales ''Tales Don't Tell Themselves' Themselves''' lead single "Into Oblivion" Oblivion (Reunion)" being more alt-rock than their previous output, it killed their credibility. Memory And Humanity ''Memory and Humanity'' was hyped up as being the band's best since "Casually Dressed", ''Casually Dressed...'', despite being a rather different style of music. Furthermore, the reviews claiming that "Conduit" ''Conduit'' was the band's best work yet despite changing style yet again didn't go down well. Basically, they have been the victims of their own publicity for their entire career, rather than being judged on their music's merits.
* {{Narm}}: "Sonny", Oh oh god how Matt over-sings here.



*** And on Faster, during the line 'when there's nowhere left to run.'
*** His more recent stuff live where he starts shouting a lyric randomly, not screaming it, but just shouting it for some reason.

to:

*** ** And on Faster, "Faster", during the line 'when there's nowhere left to run.'
*** ** His more recent stuff live where he starts shouting a lyric randomly, not screaming it, but just shouting it for some reason.



* OlderThanTheyThink: This Letter, an acoustic song recorded during the Hours sessions, is commonly held to show how they went softer for that album. In 2013, it was revealed that they recorded an earlier version during the sessions for their first EP Between Order And Model. At this time the song was called "Grand Central Station". They didn't release it originally because it wasn't representative of their sound. It was a slap in the face to people who thought the band was just heavy during that EP's period.

to:

* OlderThanTheyThink: This Letter, "This Letter", an acoustic song recorded during the Hours ''Hours'' sessions, is commonly held to show how they went softer for that album. In 2013, it was revealed that they recorded an earlier version during the sessions for their first EP Between ''Between Order And Model.and Model''. At this time the song was called "Grand Central Station". They didn't release it originally because it wasn't representative of their sound. It was a slap in the face to people who thought the band was just heavy during that EP's period.



* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: The band have suffered this a fair few times during their career, first when the band were releasing Casually Dressed and had removed the screaming vocals on Juno and had less screaming than Between Order and Model, secondly when the band had released Hours, the fans complained due to its LighterAndSofter sound, having more of a 2000s emo sound than post hardcore, though the band was still at the peak of their popularity in these era, when the band had released Tales Don't Tell Themselves which featured a lighter, more alternative rock sound and conceptual lyrics about a fisherman the band lost a fair number of fans, complaining the band had sold out and calling their album a dork age, Memory and Humanity hadn't fared better, with the band's lowest charting singles, though once the band released Welcome Home Armageddon it returned a lot of old fans. The final and last time was either Conduit, due to the loss of the band's screamer/drummer at the time Ryan Richards and the genre shift to hardcore, or Chapter and Verse due to the lighter sound and rather bleak feel (A lot of the tracks seemed to detail the band's breakup, and Matt trying to cope with the lack of success in recent years).
* WhatTheHellIsThatAccent: Friends of the band Music/BoySetsFire joke in the reissue of Between Order And Model that they couldn't understand the band's accents when they first met them. Having never heard Welsh accents, they initially thought the group was Indian. This is somewhat understandable as Matt's singing voice is a dead-ringer for a Midwestern American accent, typical of the bands that influenced him.

to:

* TearJerker: The video for "Roses for the Dead".
* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: The band have suffered this a fair few times during their career, first career. First when the band were releasing Casually ''Casually Dressed & Deep in Conversation'' and had removed the screaming vocals on Juno and had less screaming than Between ''Between Order and Model, secondly Model''. Secondly, when the band had released Hours, ''Hours'', the fans complained due to its LighterAndSofter sound, having more of a 2000s emo sound than post hardcore, though the band was still at the peak of their popularity in these era, era. Thirdly, when the band had released Tales ''Tales Don't Tell Themselves Themselves'', which featured a lighter, more alternative rock sound and conceptual lyrics about a fisherman fisherman, the band lost a fair number of fans, complaining the band had sold out and calling their album a dork age, Memory age. ''Memory and Humanity Humanity'' hadn't fared better, with the band's lowest charting singles, though once the band released Welcome ''Welcome Home Armageddon Armageddon'' it returned a lot of old fans. The final and last time was either Conduit, ''Conduit'', due to the loss of the band's screamer/drummer at the time Ryan Richards Richards, and the genre shift to hardcore, or Chapter ''Chapter and Verse Verse'' due to the lighter sound and rather bleak feel (A lot of the tracks seemed to detail the band's breakup, and Matt trying to cope with the lack of success in recent years).
* WhatTheHellIsThatAccent: Friends of the band Music/BoySetsFire Boysetsfire joke in the reissue of Between ''Between Order And Model and Model'' that they couldn't understand the band's accents when they first met them. Having never heard Welsh accents, they initially thought the group was Indian. This is somewhat understandable as Matt's singing voice is a dead-ringer for a Midwestern American accent, typical of the bands that influenced him.
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Dear Negative Reader is trivia, so I've moved it to the appropriate age. Also ZCE


* DearNegativeReader: Certainly seems to be the point of "Old Hymns" where Matt criticises the people who stopped listening to the band when they went out of fashion. Ironically, its parent album "Welcome Home Armageddon" won back a number of those fans.
** He also fired back at fans who criticised the "Chapter And Verse" album for being too raw and unmelodic, although it may have been what led him to realise the band had gone too far from their roots and call it a day.
* DorkAge: Arguably, ''Tales Don't Tell Themselves''.

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Removed: 255

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%%
* DearNegativeReader - Certainly seems to be the point of "Old Hymns" where Matt criticises the people who stopped listening to the band when they went out of fashion. Ironically, its parent album "Welcome Home Armageddon" won back a number of those fans.

to:

%%
* DearNegativeReader - DearNegativeReader: Certainly seems to be the point of "Old Hymns" where Matt criticises the people who stopped listening to the band when they went out of fashion. Ironically, its parent album "Welcome Home Armageddon" won back a number of those fans.



* DorkAge - Arguably, ''Tales Don't Tell Themselves''.
* EpicRiff - "Roses For The Dead", "Recovery", "Serpents in Solitude", "Sixteen" and "Spinning Over The Island".
* FirstInstallmentWins - Casually Dressed & Deep in Conversation remains their most critically acclaimed and popular album.

to:

* DorkAge - DorkAge: Arguably, ''Tales Don't Tell Themselves''.
Themselves''.
* EpicRiff - EpicRiff: "Roses For The Dead", "Recovery", "Serpents in Solitude", "Sixteen" and "Spinning Over The Island".
* FirstInstallmentWins - FirstInstallmentWins: Casually Dressed & Deep in Conversation remains their most critically acclaimed and popular album.



* HypeBacklash : So much. The band just saw themselves as one of many emo bands, but received an unprecedented amount of exposure thanks to good management. The hype sticker for "Casually Dressed And Deep In Conversation" suggested they were the next Nirvana, and they were compared to Iron Maiden at the time. By the time of Hours, they were being seen as a band for teenage girls due to their presence on Radio 1 and Top Of The Pops. Due to the following album Tales Don't Tell Themselves' "Into Oblivion" being more alt-rock than their previous output, it killed their credibility. Memory And Humanity was hyped up as being the band's best since "Casually Dressed", despite being a rather different style of music. Furthermore, the reviews claiming that "Conduit" was the band's best work yet despite changing style yet again didn't go down well. Basically, they have been the victims of their own publicity for their entire career, rather than being judged on their music's merits.
* {{Narm}} - "Sonny", Oh god how Matt over-sings here.

to:

* HypeBacklash : HypeBacklash: So much. The band just saw themselves as one of many emo bands, but received an unprecedented amount of exposure thanks to good management. The hype sticker for "Casually Dressed And Deep In Conversation" suggested they were the next Nirvana, and they were compared to Iron Maiden at the time. By the time of Hours, they were being seen as a band for teenage girls due to their presence on Radio 1 and Top Of The Pops. Due to the following album Tales Don't Tell Themselves' "Into Oblivion" being more alt-rock than their previous output, it killed their credibility. Memory And Humanity was hyped up as being the band's best since "Casually Dressed", despite being a rather different style of music. Furthermore, the reviews claiming that "Conduit" was the band's best work yet despite changing style yet again didn't go down well. Basically, they have been the victims of their own publicity for their entire career, rather than being judged on their music's merits.
* {{Narm}} - {{Narm}}: "Sonny", Oh god how Matt over-sings here.



* NeverLiveItDown: Despite making consistently great music, the band have played on the nostalgia of their first two EPs and first two albums during pretty much every album cycle they've done. The band even did a song about it, "Old Hymns", in which they lament their early popularity and the fact that older fans don't view their new work in the same way - 'I used to mean something to you, but now I'm tired and alone'.

to:

* NeverLiveItDown: Despite making consistently great music, the band have played on the nostalgia of their first two EPs [=EPs=] and first two albums during pretty much every album cycle they've done. The band even did a song about it, "Old Hymns", in which they lament their early popularity and the fact that older fans don't view their new work in the same way - 'I used to mean something to you, but now I'm tired and alone'.



* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: The band have suffered this a fair few times during their career, first when the band were releasing Casually Dressed and had removed the screaming vocals on Juno and had less screaming than Between Order and Model, secondly when the band had released Hours, the fans complained due to its [[LighterAndSofter]] sound, having more of a 2000s emo sound than post hardcore, though the band was still at the peak of their popularity in these era, when the band had released Tales Don't Tell Themselves which featured a lighter, more alternative rock sound and conceptual lyrics about a fisherman the band lost a fair number of fans, complaining the band had sold out and calling their album a dork age, Memory and Humanity hadn't fared better, with the band's lowest charting singles, though once the band released Welcome Home Armageddon it returned a lot of old fans. The final and last time was either Conduit, due to the loss of the band's screamer/drummer at the time Ryan Richards and the genre shift to hardcore, or Chapter and Verse due to the lighter sound and rather bleak feel (A lot of the tracks seemed to detail the band's breakup, and Matt trying to cope with the lack of success in recent years).

to:

* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: The band have suffered this a fair few times during their career, first when the band were releasing Casually Dressed and had removed the screaming vocals on Juno and had less screaming than Between Order and Model, secondly when the band had released Hours, the fans complained due to its [[LighterAndSofter]] LighterAndSofter sound, having more of a 2000s emo sound than post hardcore, though the band was still at the peak of their popularity in these era, when the band had released Tales Don't Tell Themselves which featured a lighter, more alternative rock sound and conceptual lyrics about a fisherman the band lost a fair number of fans, complaining the band had sold out and calling their album a dork age, Memory and Humanity hadn't fared better, with the band's lowest charting singles, though once the band released Welcome Home Armageddon it returned a lot of old fans. The final and last time was either Conduit, due to the loss of the band's screamer/drummer at the time Ryan Richards and the genre shift to hardcore, or Chapter and Verse due to the lighter sound and rather bleak feel (A lot of the tracks seemed to detail the band's breakup, and Matt trying to cope with the lack of success in recent years).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* NeverLiveItDown: Despite making consistently great music, the band have played on the nostalgia of their first two EPs and first two albums during pretty much every album cycle they've done. The band even did a song about it, "Old Hymns", in which they lament their early popularity and the fact that older fans don't view their new work in the same way - 'I used to mean something to you, but now I'm tired and alone'.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* WhatTheHellIsThatAccent: Friends of the band Music/BoySetsFire joke in the reissue of Between Order And Model that they couldn't understand the band's accents when they first met them. Having never heard Welsh accents, they initially thought the group was Indian. This is somewhat understandable as Matt's singing voice is a dead-ringer for a Midwestern American accent, typical of the bands that influenced him.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* SameSurnameMeansRelated: Averted with the band having both Matthew Davies and Gareth Davies in the band. Also, the preceding band January Thirst had Michael Davies. None are related - it's just that Davies is a very common surname in Wales.

Added: 385

Changed: 338

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%%* DorkAge - Arguably, ''Tales Don't Tell Themselves''.
* EpicRiff - "Roses For The Dead", "Recovery", "Serpents in Solitude", and "Spinning Over The Island".

to:

%%* %%
* DearNegativeReader - Certainly seems to be the point of "Old Hymns" where Matt criticises the people who stopped listening to the band when they went out of fashion. Ironically, its parent album "Welcome Home Armageddon" won back a number of those fans.
** He also fired back at fans who criticised the "Chapter And Verse" album for being too raw and unmelodic, although it may have been what led him to realise the band had gone too far from their roots and call it a day.
*
DorkAge - Arguably, ''Tales Don't Tell Themselves''.
* EpicRiff - "Roses For The Dead", "Recovery", "Serpents in Solitude", "Sixteen" and "Spinning Over The Island".
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* HypeBacklash : So much. The band just saw themselves as one of many emo bands, but received an unprecedented amount of exposure thanks to good management. The hype sticker for "Casually Dressed And Deep In Conversation" suggested they were the next Nirvana, and they were compared to Iron Maiden at the time. By the time of Hours, they were being seen as a band for teenage girls due to their presence on Radio 1 and Top Of The Pops. Due to the following album Tales Don't Tell Themselves' "Into Oblivion" being more alt-rock than their previous output, it killed their credibility. Memory And Humanity was hyped up as being the band's best since "Casually Dressed", despite being a rather different style of music. Furthermore, the reviews claiming that "Conduit" was the band's best work yet despite changing style yet again didn't go down well. Basically, they have been the victims of their own publicity for their entire career, rather than being judged on their music's merits.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
ZCE


* DorkAge - Arguably, ''Tales Don't Tell Themselves''.

to:

* %%* DorkAge - Arguably, ''Tales Don't Tell Themselves''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Not YMMV


* FakeAmerican - Matt Davies-Kreye's vocals are a spot-on attempt at the style of singing in the style of the American post-hardcore bands he was influenced by. In fact, when the group toured the US for the first time, they were joined by the US group BoySetsFire, who took an instant liking to their music, though initially couldn't understand what they were saying due to being [[VocalDissonance unfamiliar with Welsh accents]]. This trope is occasionally averted when their music involves spoken word, such as in "Streetcar" and "Constant Illuminations", as he uses his natural speaking voice.



* FollowTheLeader: Their music in their early days strongly resembled Music/{Thursday}, both in the progressive twin-guitar instrumentation and in the way the screamed vocals were used as counterpoint to the clean ones. However, as time went on their music became distinctly more centred around pop choruses.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* FakeAmerican - Matt Davies-Kreye's vocals are a spot-on attempt at the style of singing in the style of the American post-hardcore bands he was influenced by. In fact, when the group toured the US for the first time, they were joined by the US group BoySetsFire, who took an instant liking to their music, though initially couldn't understand what they were saying due to being [[VocalDissonance unfamiliar with Welsh accents]]. This trope is occasionally averted when their music involves spoken word, such as in "Streetcar" and "Constant Illuminations", as he uses his natural speaking voice.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* DorkAge - Arguably, ''Tales Don't Tell Themselves'' and ''Memory & Humanity''.

to:

* DorkAge - Arguably, ''Tales Don't Tell Themselves'' and ''Memory & Humanity''.Themselves''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* FollowTheLeader: Their music in their early days strongly resembled Music/{Thursday}, both in the progressive twin-guitar instrumentation and in the way the screamed vocals were used as counterpoint to the clean ones. However, as time went on their music became distinctly more centred around pop choruses.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*TheyChangedItNowItSucks: The band have suffered this a fair few times during their career, first when the band were releasing Casually Dressed and had removed the screaming vocals on Juno and had less screaming than Between Order and Model, secondly when the band had released Hours, the fans complained due to its [[LighterAndSofter]] sound, having more of a 2000s emo sound than post hardcore, though the band was still at the peak of their popularity in these era, when the band had released Tales Don't Tell Themselves which featured a lighter, more alternative rock sound and conceptual lyrics about a fisherman the band lost a fair number of fans, complaining the band had sold out and calling their album a dork age, Memory and Humanity hadn't fared better, with the band's lowest charting singles, though once the band released Welcome Home Armageddon it returned a lot of old fans. The final and last time was either Conduit, due to the loss of the band's screamer/drummer at the time Ryan Richards and the genre shift to hardcore, or Chapter and Verse due to the lighter sound and rather bleak feel (A lot of the tracks seemed to detail the band's breakup, and Matt trying to cope with the lack of success in recent years).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


**** His more recent stuff live where he starts shouting a lyric randomly, not screaming it, but just shouting it for some reason.



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Changed: 13

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* MagnumOpus / FirstInstallmentWins - Casually Dressed & Deep in Conversation remains their most critically acclaimed and popular album.

to:

* MagnumOpus / FirstInstallmentWins - Casually Dressed & Deep in Conversation remains their most critically acclaimed and popular album.

Added: 514

Changed: 29

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** There are also a number of people who believe that their first or second EP is this trope, due to considering the band to have sold out by removing the screaming on the rerecorded Juno.

to:

** There are also a number of people who believe that their first or second EP is this trope, due to considering the band to have sold out by [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks removing the screaming on the rerecorded Juno.Juno]].



*** And on Faster, during the line 'when there's nowhere left to run'

to:

*** And on Faster, during the line 'when there's nowhere left to run'run.'
* OlderThanTheyThink: This Letter, an acoustic song recorded during the Hours sessions, is commonly held to show how they went softer for that album. In 2013, it was revealed that they recorded an earlier version during the sessions for their first EP Between Order And Model. At this time the song was called "Grand Central Station". They didn't release it originally because it wasn't representative of their sound. It was a slap in the face to people who thought the band was just heavy during that EP's period.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*** And on Faster, during the line 'when there's nowhere left to run'
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Some fans now consider "Conduit" to be their best release. It's certainly their darkest and heaviest release.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* EpicRiff - "Roses For The Dead", "Recovery", "Serpents in Solitude".

to:

* EpicRiff - "Roses For The Dead", "Recovery", "Serpents in Solitude".Solitude", and "Spinning Over The Island".
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* DorkAge - Arguably, ''Tales Don't Tell Themselves'' and ''Memory & Humanity''.
* EpicRiff - "Roses For The Dead", "Recovery", "Serpents in Solitude".
* MagnumOpus / FirstInstallmentWins - Casually Dressed & Deep in Conversation remains their most critically acclaimed and popular album.
** There are also a number of people who believe that their first or second EP is this trope, due to considering the band to have sold out by removing the screaming on the rerecorded Juno.
* {{Narm}} - "Sonny", Oh god how Matt over-sings here.
** He does the same thing on "Drive", especially when it sounds like he's chewing the microphone.
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