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* And the 3rd Bayonetta game will have break this circle once and for all.
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* And the 3rd Bayonetta game will have break this circle once and for all.all.
[[WMG: Witches that aren't consumed by demons when they get to Hell eventually become demons themselves]]
This is why we don't see any dead witches in Hell despite the repeated mentions of having to wander Inferno forever when they die. Those witches who manage to avoid becoming a meal end up soaking up enough of Inferno's magic that they become demons themselves. This is why there's so many demons that resemble human women, they're all former witches.
[[WMG: Witches that aren't consumed by demons when they get to Hell eventually become demons themselves]]
This is why we don't see any dead witches in Hell despite the repeated mentions of having to wander Inferno forever when they die. Those witches who manage to avoid becoming a meal end up soaking up enough of Inferno's magic that they become demons themselves. This is why there's so many demons that resemble human women, they're all former witches.
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* I'm pretty sure Alraune doesn't directly help Gomorrah free, but the rest of this sounds plausible.
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* I'm pretty sure Alraune doesn't directly help Gomorrah free, but the rest of this sounds plausible.plausible.
[[WMG: The entire Bayonetta timeline.]]
The first Bayonetta game has you kill Father Balder and Jubileus. After that time passes and the events of Bayonetta 2 happen. After Aesir possesses Balder he goes into another dimension where the events of the first Bayonetta have just barely begun. It's an entire circle of Bayonettas and Balders.
* And the 3rd Bayonetta game will have break this circle once and for all.
[[WMG: The entire Bayonetta timeline.]]
The first Bayonetta game has you kill Father Balder and Jubileus. After that time passes and the events of Bayonetta 2 happen. After Aesir possesses Balder he goes into another dimension where the events of the first Bayonetta have just barely begun. It's an entire circle of Bayonettas and Balders.
* And the 3rd Bayonetta game will have break this circle once and for all.
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Changed line(s) 64,65 (click to see context) from:
Now this one might be more of a stretch but angels and demons may not even be traditionally such. Since it is implied they used to be human, which goes against what most religious canon says about them, they may in fact be einhejar and hel soldiers who are simply continuing to fight each other because that's all they really know how to do anymore. What is clear though is that in the last game "Armageddon" was referred as if it was an event rather than a place and more importantly, an event that was said to have happened many times. One modern interpretation of Ragnarok is an EternalRecurrance. Even in the happy ending, Niddhog survives and implied to continue being a nuisance. Perhaps in Bayonetta, Ragnarok was one of those past Armageddons?
to:
Now this one might be more of a stretch but angels and demons may not even be traditionally such. Since it is implied they used to be human, which goes against what most religious canon says about them, they may in fact be einhejar and hel soldiers who are simply continuing to fight each other because that's all they really know how to do anymore. What is clear though is that in the last game "Armageddon" was referred as if it was an event rather than a place and more importantly, an event that was said to have happened many times. One modern interpretation of Ragnarok is an EternalRecurrance.EternalRecurrence. Even in the happy ending, Niddhog survives and implied to continue being a nuisance. Perhaps in Bayonetta, Ragnarok was one of those past Armageddons?
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Now that Bayonetta 3 is in the works, that speculation is better moved there.
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[[WMG:If ever there's going to be Bayonetta 3, it will take place in a Pompeii-expy kind of place.]]
This speculation is mostly to continue the trend from the first two games; The first game takes place in Vigrid, which has been noted to look similar to Vatican, whereas Noatun in the second game reminds people of Venice, and both real-life places are located in Italy. So why not continue the trend and place the third game in another popular Italian place?
Better yet, Pompeii was destroyed by Mount Vesuvius, which makes Vesuvius also a nice setting for the game. Even better, Vesuvius, like Vatican and Venice, starts with V, making it the perfect place.
This speculation is mostly to continue the trend from the first two games; The first game takes place in Vigrid, which has been noted to look similar to Vatican, whereas Noatun in the second game reminds people of Venice, and both real-life places are located in Italy. So why not continue the trend and place the third game in another popular Italian place?
Better yet, Pompeii was destroyed by Mount Vesuvius, which makes Vesuvius also a nice setting for the game. Even better, Vesuvius, like Vatican and Venice, starts with V, making it the perfect place.
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Changed line(s) 76 (click to see context) from:
Someone else paid already - Jeanne. Rodin was working on it already and had been for what seems like some time when the game begins, meaning he'd at least been given a retainer of some sort. This also explains why Alraune wants to kill Bayonetta and Jeanne; at some point, word gets to her that an Umbra Witch has called for her destruction and conversion into a weapon (essentially slavery, as well as AndIMustScream territory), and while the power she'd gain by devouring one or the other isn't inconsiderable, it's also essential to avoid having her plans destroyed by a demon weaponsmith who had basically never failed to obtain the soul of a demon for his weapons before. That's why she sets Gomorrah free; that was her first chance to go after them.
to:
Someone else paid already - Jeanne. Rodin was working on it already and had been for what seems like some time when the game begins, meaning he'd at least been given a retainer of some sort. This also explains why Alraune wants to kill Bayonetta and Jeanne; at some point, word gets to her that an Umbra Witch has called for her destruction and conversion into a weapon (essentially slavery, as well as AndIMustScream territory), and while the power she'd gain by devouring one or the other isn't inconsiderable, it's also essential to avoid having her plans destroyed by a demon weaponsmith who had basically never failed to obtain the soul of a demon for his weapons before. That's why she sets Gomorrah free; that was her first chance to go after them.them.
*I'm pretty sure Alraune doesn't directly help Gomorrah free, but the rest of this sounds plausible.
*I'm pretty sure Alraune doesn't directly help Gomorrah free, but the rest of this sounds plausible.
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* Jossed, but at least we get an awesome [[VideoGame/StarFox Fox McCloud]] costume instead!
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* Jossed, WordOfGod has said Bayonetta will never hook up with Luka because of the drastic age difference; she wants to avoid a MayflyDecemberRomance.
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** [[spoiler: Jossed. We leave these WMGs here, lest we overestimate Platinum Games's plot twist capabilities]]
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** [[spoiler: Jossed. We leave these WMGs [=WMGs=] here, lest we overestimate Platinum Games's plot twist capabilities]]
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Changed line(s) 69 (click to see context) from:
Better yet, Pompeii was destroyed by Mount Vesuvius, which makes Vesuvius also a nice setting for the game. Even better, Vesuvius, like Vatican and Venice, starts with V, making it the perfect place.
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Better yet, Pompeii was destroyed by Mount Vesuvius, which makes Vesuvius also a nice setting for the game. Even better, Vesuvius, like Vatican and Venice, starts with V, making it the perfect place.place.
[[WMG: Jeanne had commissioned Rodin to make Alruna as a Christmas present for Bayonetta, which is why she went after the two of them.]]
Alruna is one of the few weapons in either game not obtained through a Golden LP, but Rodin doesn't seem to be charging Bayonetta for weapon at all (theoretically, the reason he didn't charge for the others was because the trip to Inferno led him fighting a ton of other demons, and collecting their orbs as a result and as a sort of payment). Yet, he mentions it as a "payday," even though he just GIVES it to her. Why would he do that?
Someone else paid already - Jeanne. Rodin was working on it already and had been for what seems like some time when the game begins, meaning he'd at least been given a retainer of some sort. This also explains why Alraune wants to kill Bayonetta and Jeanne; at some point, word gets to her that an Umbra Witch has called for her destruction and conversion into a weapon (essentially slavery, as well as AndIMustScream territory), and while the power she'd gain by devouring one or the other isn't inconsiderable, it's also essential to avoid having her plans destroyed by a demon weaponsmith who had basically never failed to obtain the soul of a demon for his weapons before. That's why she sets Gomorrah free; that was her first chance to go after them.
[[WMG: Jeanne had commissioned Rodin to make Alruna as a Christmas present for Bayonetta, which is why she went after the two of them.]]
Alruna is one of the few weapons in either game not obtained through a Golden LP, but Rodin doesn't seem to be charging Bayonetta for weapon at all (theoretically, the reason he didn't charge for the others was because the trip to Inferno led him fighting a ton of other demons, and collecting their orbs as a result and as a sort of payment). Yet, he mentions it as a "payday," even though he just GIVES it to her. Why would he do that?
Someone else paid already - Jeanne. Rodin was working on it already and had been for what seems like some time when the game begins, meaning he'd at least been given a retainer of some sort. This also explains why Alraune wants to kill Bayonetta and Jeanne; at some point, word gets to her that an Umbra Witch has called for her destruction and conversion into a weapon (essentially slavery, as well as AndIMustScream territory), and while the power she'd gain by devouring one or the other isn't inconsiderable, it's also essential to avoid having her plans destroyed by a demon weaponsmith who had basically never failed to obtain the soul of a demon for his weapons before. That's why she sets Gomorrah free; that was her first chance to go after them.
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Changed line(s) 64 (click to see context) from:
** According to the Urbane description, angels are personified abstract concepts (as their names pretty much suggest). Still, they could be Alfar, since Alfheim was the realm of light in Norse Mythology and the angels stand for light in the Bayonetta world.
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** According to the Urbane description, angels are personified abstract concepts (as their names pretty much suggest). Still, they could be Alfar, since Alfheim was the realm of light in Norse Mythology and the angels stand for light in the Bayonetta world.world.
[[WMG:If ever there's going to be Bayonetta 3, it will take place in a Pompeii-expy kind of place.]]
This speculation is mostly to continue the trend from the first two games; The first game takes place in Vigrid, which has been noted to look similar to Vatican, whereas Noatun in the second game reminds people of Venice, and both real-life places are located in Italy. So why not continue the trend and place the third game in another popular Italian place?
Better yet, Pompeii was destroyed by Mount Vesuvius, which makes Vesuvius also a nice setting for the game. Even better, Vesuvius, like Vatican and Venice, starts with V, making it the perfect place.
[[WMG:If ever there's going to be Bayonetta 3, it will take place in a Pompeii-expy kind of place.]]
This speculation is mostly to continue the trend from the first two games; The first game takes place in Vigrid, which has been noted to look similar to Vatican, whereas Noatun in the second game reminds people of Venice, and both real-life places are located in Italy. So why not continue the trend and place the third game in another popular Italian place?
Better yet, Pompeii was destroyed by Mount Vesuvius, which makes Vesuvius also a nice setting for the game. Even better, Vesuvius, like Vatican and Venice, starts with V, making it the perfect place.
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[[WMG: Balder is the closest thing to pure good in the Bayonetta universe.]]
It's pretty obvious that Loptr represents pure evil, having been identified as such by Loki and demonstrating it in almost every cutscene he's in. However, Loki isn't much of a paragon of pure good, being rude, crude, and deceitful; while he calls himself the "better half" of Aesir, his use of the phrase suggests he's the more powerful half, not the more benevolent (though, compared to Loptr, he certainly is).
Bayonetta and Jeanne, while exciting heroines in their own right, never exactly go on crusades to save the world; they'd rather be driven by a quest to kill the hell out of the biggest, baddest monsters around. It shows in the story, too, as the redeeming qualities that are showcased and commented upon the most tend to be their strength and combat skill. Balder is probably the best counterpart to Loptr around, given that most of his actions tend to revolve around selflessness, honor, and virtue in some way; even his quest to kill Loki is motivated by his love for Rosa and his need to avenge her death.
His belief in something greater than himself may give his combat skill an edge that Bayonetta doesn't have, as he ends every fight he has with Bayonetta in a draw or victory. Loptr is the only other character in the Bayonetta universe to hold this exact same distinction (assuming Aesir is counted as a separate entity), but this could be because he ''has no'' belief in anything greater than himself.
Of course, given how Loptr proves to be impossible for Bayonetta to defeat once and for all without help (from Loki in ''2'', and from Jeanne in ''Bayonetta'' while trapped within Balder), this could be the creative team's way of teaching the player that [[AnAesop pure evil can't be overcome alone]].
It's pretty obvious that Loptr represents pure evil, having been identified as such by Loki and demonstrating it in almost every cutscene he's in. However, Loki isn't much of a paragon of pure good, being rude, crude, and deceitful; while he calls himself the "better half" of Aesir, his use of the phrase suggests he's the more powerful half, not the more benevolent (though, compared to Loptr, he certainly is).
Bayonetta and Jeanne, while exciting heroines in their own right, never exactly go on crusades to save the world; they'd rather be driven by a quest to kill the hell out of the biggest, baddest monsters around. It shows in the story, too, as the redeeming qualities that are showcased and commented upon the most tend to be their strength and combat skill. Balder is probably the best counterpart to Loptr around, given that most of his actions tend to revolve around selflessness, honor, and virtue in some way; even his quest to kill Loki is motivated by his love for Rosa and his need to avenge her death.
His belief in something greater than himself may give his combat skill an edge that Bayonetta doesn't have, as he ends every fight he has with Bayonetta in a draw or victory. Loptr is the only other character in the Bayonetta universe to hold this exact same distinction (assuming Aesir is counted as a separate entity), but this could be because he ''has no'' belief in anything greater than himself.
Of course, given how Loptr proves to be impossible for Bayonetta to defeat once and for all without help (from Loki in ''2'', and from Jeanne in ''Bayonetta'' while trapped within Balder), this could be the creative team's way of teaching the player that [[AnAesop pure evil can't be overcome alone]].
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*** With how Bayo and Jeanne act with each other...it could be a distinct possibility...
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Changed line(s) 52 (click to see context) from:
Now this one might be more of a stretch but angels and demons may not even be traditionally such. Since it is implied they used to be human, which goes against what most religious canon says about them, they may in fact be einhejar and hel soldiers who are simply continuing to fight each other because that's all they really know how to do anymore. What is clear though is that in the last game "Armageddon" was referred as if it was an event rather than a place and more importantly, an event that was said to have happened many times. One modern interpretation of Ragnarok is an EternalRecurrance. Even in the happy ending, Niddhog survives and implied to continue being a nuisance. Perhaps in Bayonetta, Ragnarok was one of those past Armageddons?
to:
Now this one might be more of a stretch but angels and demons may not even be traditionally such. Since it is implied they used to be human, which goes against what most religious canon says about them, they may in fact be einhejar and hel soldiers who are simply continuing to fight each other because that's all they really know how to do anymore. What is clear though is that in the last game "Armageddon" was referred as if it was an event rather than a place and more importantly, an event that was said to have happened many times. One modern interpretation of Ragnarok is an EternalRecurrance. Even in the happy ending, Niddhog survives and implied to continue being a nuisance. Perhaps in Bayonetta, Ragnarok was one of those past Armageddons?Armageddons?
** According to the Urbane description, angels are personified abstract concepts (as their names pretty much suggest). Still, they could be Alfar, since Alfheim was the realm of light in Norse Mythology and the angels stand for light in the Bayonetta world.
** According to the Urbane description, angels are personified abstract concepts (as their names pretty much suggest). Still, they could be Alfar, since Alfheim was the realm of light in Norse Mythology and the angels stand for light in the Bayonetta world.
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* The demon Pride (basically a recolor of Pain) is indeed a fallen angel, and Sloth appearently is responsible for the existence of "countless fallen angels", but otherwise jossed.
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[[WMG: Bayonetta takes place after after Ragnarok]]
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[[WMG: Bayonetta takes place after after Ragnarok]]
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Changed line(s) 29 (click to see context) from:
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* [[spoiler:Confirmed, though there is more to the overseer than just Loki...]]
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* Confirmed!!!
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* Confirmed!!!Confirmed!!!
[[WMG: Bayonetta takes place after after Ragnarok]]
Why so many Norse naming schemes in a game clearly based on Medieval Christianity, which had a higher fondness for Greek and Latin? Because that is not just theme naming, but in fact are referring to remnants of the nine worlds. Alfheims are just that, parts of Alfheim that survived Surtr's fire and the resulting flood that quenched it. They've since been populated by angels because the surviving Alfar have moved on to the new world of Andalang. Aesir is just that, an Aesir who either survived Ragnarok or was reborn afterwards. Most likely one who was reborn but altered by the experience. Baldur might be a reborn Aesir too, perhaps reborn as human or not, given his toughness and being one of the few things Bayonetta could not out right beat in the last game. The new world of Ragnarok was to come with an all new god too. A powerful mighty one, who would rule over everything. If you pay close enough attention to this game, there is one character whose name is only one letter away from "One" and is said not to be related to anyone previously established. Likely not a coincidence.
Now this one might be more of a stretch but angels and demons may not even be traditionally such. Since it is implied they used to be human, which goes against what most religious canon says about them, they may in fact be einhejar and hel soldiers who are simply continuing to fight each other because that's all they really know how to do anymore. What is clear though is that in the last game "Armageddon" was referred as if it was an event rather than a place and more importantly, an event that was said to have happened many times. One modern interpretation of Ragnarok is an EternalRecurrance. Even in the happy ending, Niddhog survives and implied to continue being a nuisance. Perhaps in Bayonetta, Ragnarok was one of those past Armageddons?
[[WMG: Bayonetta takes place after after Ragnarok]]
Why so many Norse naming schemes in a game clearly based on Medieval Christianity, which had a higher fondness for Greek and Latin? Because that is not just theme naming, but in fact are referring to remnants of the nine worlds. Alfheims are just that, parts of Alfheim that survived Surtr's fire and the resulting flood that quenched it. They've since been populated by angels because the surviving Alfar have moved on to the new world of Andalang. Aesir is just that, an Aesir who either survived Ragnarok or was reborn afterwards. Most likely one who was reborn but altered by the experience. Baldur might be a reborn Aesir too, perhaps reborn as human or not, given his toughness and being one of the few things Bayonetta could not out right beat in the last game. The new world of Ragnarok was to come with an all new god too. A powerful mighty one, who would rule over everything. If you pay close enough attention to this game, there is one character whose name is only one letter away from "One" and is said not to be related to anyone previously established. Likely not a coincidence.
Now this one might be more of a stretch but angels and demons may not even be traditionally such. Since it is implied they used to be human, which goes against what most religious canon says about them, they may in fact be einhejar and hel soldiers who are simply continuing to fight each other because that's all they really know how to do anymore. What is clear though is that in the last game "Armageddon" was referred as if it was an event rather than a place and more importantly, an event that was said to have happened many times. One modern interpretation of Ragnarok is an EternalRecurrance. Even in the happy ending, Niddhog survives and implied to continue being a nuisance. Perhaps in Bayonetta, Ragnarok was one of those past Armageddons?
