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** Maybe she misspoke and is referring to that look of guilt.
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** Maybe she misspoke and is referring to that look of guilt.guilt.
*** That wouldn't make any sense. He claims that he doesn't care about the treasure, and she says that the look of joy on his face as he entered the room showed that he really does care about the treasure. She's not talking at all about his feelings of guilt for lying to her about where he was.
*** That wouldn't make any sense. He claims that he doesn't care about the treasure, and she says that the look of joy on his face as he entered the room showed that he really does care about the treasure. She's not talking at all about his feelings of guilt for lying to her about where he was.
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* When Elena surprises Nate by showing up in his hotel room, her back is to him as he walks in. At the end of their argument, when he claims to not care about the treasure, Elena tells him that the look on his face when he entered the room suggests otherwise. But how could she have seen his expression when he entered the room? By the time she turned around, his expression had already changed to guilty horror at her presence.
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* When Elena surprises Nate by showing up in his hotel room, her back is to him as he walks in. At the end of their argument, when he claims to not care about the treasure, Elena tells him that the look on his face when he entered the room suggests otherwise. But how could she have seen his expression when he entered the room? By the time she turned around, his expression had already changed to guilty horror at her presence.presence.
** Maybe she misspoke and is referring to that look of guilt.
** Maybe she misspoke and is referring to that look of guilt.
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[[AC:FridgeLogic]]
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** Elena probably would have insisted on taking it to the authorities, which would have driven Sam to go after the treasure on his own and in order to avoid having his lie exposed.
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** Elena probably would have insisted on taking it to the authorities, which would have driven Sam to go after the treasure on his own and in order to avoid having his lie exposed.exposed.
* When Elena surprises Nate by showing up in his hotel room, her back is to him as he walks in. At the end of their argument, when he claims to not care about the treasure, Elena tells him that the look on his face when he entered the room suggests otherwise. But how could she have seen his expression when he entered the room? By the time she turned around, his expression had already changed to guilty horror at her presence.
* When Elena surprises Nate by showing up in his hotel room, her back is to him as he walks in. At the end of their argument, when he claims to not care about the treasure, Elena tells him that the look on his face when he entered the room suggests otherwise. But how could she have seen his expression when he entered the room? By the time she turned around, his expression had already changed to guilty horror at her presence.
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* Why does Nate lie to Elena about the treasure hunt? Does he really not think she would understand him trying to save his brother's life?
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* Why does Nate lie to Elena about the treasure hunt? Does he really not think she would understand him trying to save his brother's life?life?
** Elena probably would have insisted on taking it to the authorities, which would have driven Sam to go after the treasure on his own and in order to avoid having his lie exposed.
** Elena probably would have insisted on taking it to the authorities, which would have driven Sam to go after the treasure on his own and in order to avoid having his lie exposed.
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* Why does Nate lie to Elena about the hunt for the Avery treasure? I could understand if he was worried about putting her in danger, since she would naturally want to help with the Sam situation, but the reasoning he gives is that he doesn't think she would understand why he needs to search for the treasure. Which makes no sense. Why wouldn't she understand? Nate: "There's a homicidal drug lord who's going to kill my brother if we don't deliver him this treasure ASAP." Elena: "Got it. What can I do to help?" Seems like a fairly simple conversation that he chooses not to have for some reason.
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* Why does Nate lie to Elena about the hunt for the Avery treasure? I could understand if treasure hunt? Does he was worried about putting her in danger, since she would naturally want to help with the Sam situation, but the reasoning he gives is that he doesn't really not think she would understand why he needs to search for the treasure. Which makes no sense. Why wouldn't she understand? Nate: "There's a homicidal drug lord who's going to kill my brother if we don't deliver him this treasure ASAP." Elena: "Got it. What can I do trying to help?" Seems like a fairly simple conversation that he chooses not to have for some reason.save his brother's life?
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** Also, if memory serves, Charlie doesn't use prepaid phones due to paranoia. He uses them because he thinks phone plans are a rip-off. So the phone may not necessarily be a 'burner' but simply a pre-paid phone with the same number long term.
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** Also, if memory serves, Charlie doesn't use prepaid phones due to paranoia. He uses them because he thinks phone plans are a rip-off. So the phone may not necessarily be a 'burner' but simply a pre-paid phone with the same number long term.term.
* Why does Nate lie to Elena about the hunt for the Avery treasure? I could understand if he was worried about putting her in danger, since she would naturally want to help with the Sam situation, but the reasoning he gives is that he doesn't think she would understand why he needs to search for the treasure. Which makes no sense. Why wouldn't she understand? Nate: "There's a homicidal drug lord who's going to kill my brother if we don't deliver him this treasure ASAP." Elena: "Got it. What can I do to help?" Seems like a fairly simple conversation that he chooses not to have for some reason.
* Why does Nate lie to Elena about the hunt for the Avery treasure? I could understand if he was worried about putting her in danger, since she would naturally want to help with the Sam situation, but the reasoning he gives is that he doesn't think she would understand why he needs to search for the treasure. Which makes no sense. Why wouldn't she understand? Nate: "There's a homicidal drug lord who's going to kill my brother if we don't deliver him this treasure ASAP." Elena: "Got it. What can I do to help?" Seems like a fairly simple conversation that he chooses not to have for some reason.
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** The contact is just his email address, the number goes to a voicemail box, google voice number that forwards to Cutter's current burner, Cutter stopped using burners at some point...
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** The contact is just his email address, the number goes to a voicemail box, google voice number that forwards to Cutter's current burner, Cutter stopped using burners at some point...point...
** Also, if memory serves, Charlie doesn't use prepaid phones due to paranoia. He uses them because he thinks phone plans are a rip-off. So the phone may not necessarily be a 'burner' but simply a pre-paid phone with the same number long term.
** Also, if memory serves, Charlie doesn't use prepaid phones due to paranoia. He uses them because he thinks phone plans are a rip-off. So the phone may not necessarily be a 'burner' but simply a pre-paid phone with the same number long term.
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****Doubly so as Shoreline would have been operating exclusively on Rafe's private property and thus far from prying eyes. As for the explosions . . . Explosive demolition isn't illegal and arranging the paperwork would be even more trivial.
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**** You guys are all overthinking this. If Rafe has enough money that he can just offhandedly buy big swaths of Scotland real estate on an errant whim, he's certainly got enough money to let Shoreline skip past Scottish customs.
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** Nate could have also revealed the locations from his travels. A second set of researchers verified his claims from the rubble. At the very least you have Drake arrive somewhere and then a warzone happens.
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** Ah yes lucky Nate didn't check. Because everyone reported deceased in a prison(especially that one) is of course dead. Francis Drake died at sea. Sam was reported dead and clearly not the case in this game. It's the confirmation that not only was this man dead but that also there was no riot and Rafe played a role. Nate may have checked but found no records of imprisonment/death to refute Sam's story.
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** The contact is just his email address, google voice or equivalent number, google voice number that forwards to Cutter's current burner, Cutter stopped using burners at some point...
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** The contact is just his email address, google voice or equivalent number, the number goes to a voicemail box, google voice number that forwards to Cutter's current burner, Cutter stopped using burners at some point...
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** Another genius idea is how it's been shown Sam, having been in a South American jail since 1999, is pretty out of date with the modern world (he mistakes a cell phone tower for a radio one). Thus, Sam still thinks people read newspapers regularly and Alcazar's death wouldn't have been as big a story for Nate in the U.S. The idea of people constantly checking the Internet for news and finding things easily wouldn't be crossing Sam's mind. Thus, he really has no idea how flimsy his story is and lucky Nate never bothered to check on it.
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** Another genius idea is how it's been shown Sam, having been in a South American jail since 1999, is pretty out of date with the modern world (he mistakes a cell phone tower for a radio one). Thus, Sam still thinks people read newspapers regularly and Alcazar's death wouldn't have been as big a story for Nate in the U.S. The idea of people constantly checking the Internet for news and finding things easily wouldn't be crossing Sam's mind. Thus, he really has no idea how flimsy his story is and lucky Nate never bothered to check on it.it.
* How does Nate have Charlie Cutter isn't his contacts list when it's stated that Cutter uses burner phones?
** The contact is just his email address, google voice or equivalent number, google voice number that forwards to Cutter's current burner, Cutter stopped using burners at some point...
* How does Nate have Charlie Cutter isn't his contacts list when it's stated that Cutter uses burner phones?
** The contact is just his email address, google voice or equivalent number, google voice number that forwards to Cutter's current burner, Cutter stopped using burners at some point...
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* On many occasions throughout the game, Nate travels with a partner from whom he gets separated by a ledge or a gap of some kind. On all of these occasions, Nate (or his partner) has to go find a crate or a ladder or some other object that lets them rejoin each other. But... Nate is always carrying his super-durable, instantly-retracting grapnel and rope. Sam has one too. Why doesn't anyone ever think of using these ropes to climb over obstacles?
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* On many occasions throughout the game, Nate travels with a partner from whom he gets separated by a ledge or a gap of some kind. On all of these occasions, Nate (or his partner) has to go find a crate or a ladder or some other object that lets them rejoin each other. But... Nate is always carrying his super-durable, instantly-retracting grapnel and rope. Sam has one too. Why doesn't anyone ever think of using these ropes to climb over obstacles?obstacles?
[[AC:FridgeLogic]]
* In hindsight, it's incredibly lucky for Sam that Nate didn't know that Hector Alcazar, a famous drug lord, had been gunned down in a shootout -- an event that would have doubtlessly made the news. Also, Nate never does a quick Google search on Alcazar or the Panama jail Sam was imprisoned in; both things that would have quickly exposed Sam's lies.
** Nate actually lampshades this some time after Elena rescues him.
** It can be argued that Sam knew this and why he did it. He figured Nate would be so overjoyed seeing his long-dead brother alive again that it would never occur to him Sam was playing some line.]]
** Another genius idea is how it's been shown Sam, having been in a South American jail since 1999, is pretty out of date with the modern world (he mistakes a cell phone tower for a radio one). Thus, Sam still thinks people read newspapers regularly and Alcazar's death wouldn't have been as big a story for Nate in the U.S. The idea of people constantly checking the Internet for news and finding things easily wouldn't be crossing Sam's mind. Thus, he really has no idea how flimsy his story is and lucky Nate never bothered to check on it.
[[AC:FridgeLogic]]
* In hindsight, it's incredibly lucky for Sam that Nate didn't know that Hector Alcazar, a famous drug lord, had been gunned down in a shootout -- an event that would have doubtlessly made the news. Also, Nate never does a quick Google search on Alcazar or the Panama jail Sam was imprisoned in; both things that would have quickly exposed Sam's lies.
** Nate actually lampshades this some time after Elena rescues him.
** It can be argued that Sam knew this and why he did it. He figured Nate would be so overjoyed seeing his long-dead brother alive again that it would never occur to him Sam was playing some line.]]
** Another genius idea is how it's been shown Sam, having been in a South American jail since 1999, is pretty out of date with the modern world (he mistakes a cell phone tower for a radio one). Thus, Sam still thinks people read newspapers regularly and Alcazar's death wouldn't have been as big a story for Nate in the U.S. The idea of people constantly checking the Internet for news and finding things easily wouldn't be crossing Sam's mind. Thus, he really has no idea how flimsy his story is and lucky Nate never bothered to check on it.
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* Along those lines, how the hell did Libertalia remain hidden for so long? It's clearly visible from the air or sea and it's quite noteworthy, not to mention being not far from what seemed to be a fairly populated city with shipping and the like. It stands to reason SOMEBODY had to have at least sailed/flown by the island in the past couple hundreds years, noticed all the really interesting buildings and reported it to...somebody.
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* Along those lines, how the hell did Libertalia remain hidden for so long? It's clearly visible from the air or sea and it's quite noteworthy, not to mention being not far from what seemed to be a fairly populated city with shipping and the like. It stands to reason SOMEBODY had to have at least sailed/flown by the island in the past couple hundreds years, noticed all the really interesting buildings and reported it to...somebody. The place should be a UNESCO site when Nate and Shoreline arrive, not totally undiscovered.
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*** Shoreline seems to do what and go where they want. They managed to move a small army to Madagascar before Nate got there(not to mention shoot up half the damn city apparently not caring the consequences of doing so) and then managed to move the rest of it to Libertalia, again, pretty much in the blink of an eye. Not just men but a decent number of vehicles as well. They've got some serious air/sea-lift capability apparently.
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* Along those lines, how the hell did Libertalia remain hidden for so long? It's clearly visible from the air or sea and it's quite noteworthy, not to mention being not far from what seemed to be a fairly populated city with shipping and the like. It stands to reason SOMEBODY had to have at least sailed/flown by the island in the past couple hundreds years, noticed all the really interesting buildings and reported it to...somebody.
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** Nate mentions to Sam in their conversation early in the game that even if he didn't come away from his adventures with everything he set out for, he still made enough off of them that his house and car in New Orleans are fully paid for. Nate didn't end up entirely empty-handed from his adventures, and still managed to find any number of ancient, valuable historical discoveries along the way that ''didn't'' blow up ten minutes later. There are also several well-known personages in the shadow economy of the ''Uncharted'' universe who inexplicably came out second best to Nate. There's every reason why he'd have a reputation at this point, especially if somebody like Chloe was telling stories about it.
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** Nate mentions to Sam in their conversation early in the game that even if he didn't come away from his adventures with everything he set out for, he still made enough off of them that his house and car in New Orleans are fully paid for. Nate didn't end up entirely empty-handed from his adventures, and still managed to find any number of ancient, valuable historical discoveries along the way that ''didn't'' blow up ten minutes later. There are also several well-known personages in the shadow economy of the ''Uncharted'' universe who inexplicably came out second best to Nate. There's every reason why he'd have a reputation at this point, especially if somebody like Chloe was telling stories about it.it.
* On many occasions throughout the game, Nate travels with a partner from whom he gets separated by a ledge or a gap of some kind. On all of these occasions, Nate (or his partner) has to go find a crate or a ladder or some other object that lets them rejoin each other. But... Nate is always carrying his super-durable, instantly-retracting grapnel and rope. Sam has one too. Why doesn't anyone ever think of using these ropes to climb over obstacles?
* On many occasions throughout the game, Nate travels with a partner from whom he gets separated by a ledge or a gap of some kind. On all of these occasions, Nate (or his partner) has to go find a crate or a ladder or some other object that lets them rejoin each other. But... Nate is always carrying his super-durable, instantly-retracting grapnel and rope. Sam has one too. Why doesn't anyone ever think of using these ropes to climb over obstacles?
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noted a bio-hazard crate
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****If you look carefully some of the crates, seen after the floor collapse have the bio-hazard simbol. So maybe they are smuggling BIO-HAZARD WEAPONS, which his use is against International laws.
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** Recall that at the beginning of the game, both groups are speeding toward the island trading gunfire with each other. They were probably focused on just reaching the island at that point, with the added pressure of trying to stay alive. The fact that they were doing this in the middle of a rainstorm probably didn't help.
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*** I'd love to know how they pulled that off. Smuggling enough heavy weapons in to equip an entire army is not easy when entering a nation with a first-rate national security structure in place.
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* During the climax, Rafe starts ranting about his resentment of Nate for his previous accomplishments of finding El Dorado, Shambala and Iram. How were these exploits publicized? In all three adventures, the treasure/location Nate found was destroyed or lost, leaving no proof of Nate accomplishing squat. So how come Nate came to be such a legend, as Rafe put it?
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* During the climax, Rafe starts ranting about his resentment of Nate for his previous accomplishments of finding El Dorado, Shambala and Iram. How were these exploits publicized? In all three adventures, the treasure/location Nate found was destroyed or lost, leaving no proof of Nate accomplishing squat. So how come Nate came to be such a legend, as Rafe put it?it?
** Nate mentions to Sam in their conversation early in the game that even if he didn't come away from his adventures with everything he set out for, he still made enough off of them that his house and car in New Orleans are fully paid for. Nate didn't end up entirely empty-handed from his adventures, and still managed to find any number of ancient, valuable historical discoveries along the way that ''didn't'' blow up ten minutes later. There are also several well-known personages in the shadow economy of the ''Uncharted'' universe who inexplicably came out second best to Nate. There's every reason why he'd have a reputation at this point, especially if somebody like Chloe was telling stories about it.
** Nate mentions to Sam in their conversation early in the game that even if he didn't come away from his adventures with everything he set out for, he still made enough off of them that his house and car in New Orleans are fully paid for. Nate didn't end up entirely empty-handed from his adventures, and still managed to find any number of ancient, valuable historical discoveries along the way that ''didn't'' blow up ten minutes later. There are also several well-known personages in the shadow economy of the ''Uncharted'' universe who inexplicably came out second best to Nate. There's every reason why he'd have a reputation at this point, especially if somebody like Chloe was telling stories about it.
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* How did both Rafe and Nate's groups miss the fact that there are dozens of partially sunk pirate galleons choking a harbor on Libertalia? The treasure is hidden in the immediate vicinity of this harbor, so either group could have skipped 99% of their search on the island just looking around this extremely obvious sign of pirate activity.
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* How did both Rafe and Nate's groups miss the fact that there are dozens of partially sunk pirate galleons choking a harbor on Libertalia? The treasure is hidden in the immediate vicinity of this harbor, so either group could have skipped 99% of their search on the island just looking around this extremely obvious sign of pirate activity.activity.
* During the climax, Rafe starts ranting about his resentment of Nate for his previous accomplishments of finding El Dorado, Shambala and Iram. How were these exploits publicized? In all three adventures, the treasure/location Nate found was destroyed or lost, leaving no proof of Nate accomplishing squat. So how come Nate came to be such a legend, as Rafe put it?
* During the climax, Rafe starts ranting about his resentment of Nate for his previous accomplishments of finding El Dorado, Shambala and Iram. How were these exploits publicized? In all three adventures, the treasure/location Nate found was destroyed or lost, leaving no proof of Nate accomplishing squat. So how come Nate came to be such a legend, as Rafe put it?
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** Perhaps Shoreline smuggled in their weapons somehow? They aren't really a law-abiding organization anyways.
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** IIRC they've been to the Rossi estate a few times, so it's possible they knew those weren't your ordinary security guards putting in a hard night's work. I got the impression it was an organized crime family's mansion.
*** Yes, the "security guards" are just mob goons guarding an auction that is catering to the underworld.
*** Yes, the "security guards" are just mob goons guarding an auction that is catering to the underworld.
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** IIRC they've been to the Rossi estate a few times, so it's possible they knew those weren't your ordinary security guards putting in a hard night's work. I got the impression it was an [[TheMafia organized crime family's family]]'s mansion.
*** Yes, the "security guards" are just [[HiredGuns mobgoons goons]] guarding an a BlackMarket auction that is catering to the underworld.
*** Yes, the "security guards" are just [[HiredGuns mob
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!! Navigation: [[Headscratchers/UnchartedDrakesFortune Drake's Fortune]] | [[Headscratchers/Uncharted2AmongThieves Among Thieves]] | [[Headscratchers/Uncharted3DrakesDeception Drake's Deception]] | [[Headscratchers/UnchartedGoldenAbyss Golden Abyss]] | A Thief's End | [[Headscratchers/UnchartedTheLostLegacy The Lost Legacy]] | [[Headscratchers/{{Uncharted}} Main Page]]
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** This is going to sound spergy, but people tend to bothered by the narrative dissonance in the Uncharted series because while Indiana Jones can plausibly get away with the illegal and violent shit he pulls in a pre-WW2 era, we can't say the same for "just a normal guy" Nate because we know this is completely not how a modern day world works.
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** This is going to sound spergy, but people tend to bothered by the narrative dissonance in the Uncharted series because while Indiana Jones can plausibly get away with the illegal and violent shit he pulls in a pre-WW2 pre-[=WW2=] era, we can't say the same for "just a normal guy" Nate because we know this is completely not how a modern day world works.
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** There's also a mention of Sam and Nate being in and out of jail - Sam could have been in jail at the time Sully picked up Nate.
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* How is Shoreline carrying out operations in Scotland? The UK isn't a third world country. They aren't going going to let some private army come in with a huge arsenal unless there is a damn good reason. Considering how anti-gun the UK is, I just can't imagine them giving permission to a bunch of guys to go poking around their temples while carrying rocket launchers and automatic rifles.
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* How is Shoreline carrying out operations in Scotland? The UK isn't a third world country. They aren't going going to let some private army come in with a huge arsenal unless there is a damn good reason. Considering how anti-gun the UK is, I just can't imagine them giving permission to a bunch of guys to go poking around their temples while carrying rocket launchers and automatic rifles.rifles.
* How did both Rafe and Nate's groups miss the fact that there are dozens of partially sunk pirate galleons choking a harbor on Libertalia? The treasure is hidden in the immediate vicinity of this harbor, so either group could have skipped 99% of their search on the island just looking around this extremely obvious sign of pirate activity.
* How did both Rafe and Nate's groups miss the fact that there are dozens of partially sunk pirate galleons choking a harbor on Libertalia? The treasure is hidden in the immediate vicinity of this harbor, so either group could have skipped 99% of their search on the island just looking around this extremely obvious sign of pirate activity.
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This is Karma Houdini, not a headscratcher
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* How is Shoreline carrying out operations in Scotland? The UK isn't a third world country. They aren't going going to let some private army come in with a huge arsenal unless there is a damn good reason. Considering how anti-gun the UK is, I just can't imagine them giving permission to a bunch of guys to go poking around their temples while carrying rocket launchers and automatic rifles.
* Am I the only one who thought that Sam [[spoiler: got off a bit too easily for his lying about Alcazar being the reason for seeking out the treasure?]] Nate nearly ruined his relationship with Elena and nearly got himself killed dozens of times before she found out about what he was doing, and all this time he was doing it to save Sam [[spoiler: or so he thought.]] But even after all that, [[spoiler: Sam still doesn't come clean, only doing so after Rafe forced him to tell the truth.]] And what's the worst he gets after that? [[spoiler: Nate angrily telling him he gave up his life for him.]] Considering everything that happened, I think he deserved far worse.
* Am I the only one who thought that Sam [[spoiler: got off a bit too easily for his lying about Alcazar being the reason for seeking out the treasure?]] Nate nearly ruined his relationship with Elena and nearly got himself killed dozens of times before she found out about what he was doing, and all this time he was doing it to save Sam [[spoiler: or so he thought.]] But even after all that, [[spoiler: Sam still doesn't come clean, only doing so after Rafe forced him to tell the truth.]] And what's the worst he gets after that? [[spoiler: Nate angrily telling him he gave up his life for him.]] Considering everything that happened, I think he deserved far worse.
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* How is Shoreline carrying out operations in Scotland? The UK isn't a third world country. They aren't going going to let some private army come in with a huge arsenal unless there is a damn good reason. Considering how anti-gun the UK is, I just can't imagine them giving permission to a bunch of guys to go poking around their temples while carrying rocket launchers and automatic rifles.
* Am I the only one who thought that Sam [[spoiler: got off a bit too easily for his lying about Alcazar being the reason for seeking out the treasure?]] Nate nearly ruined his relationship with Elena and nearly got himself killed dozens of times before she found out about what he was doing, and all this time he was doing it to save Sam [[spoiler: or so he thought.]] But even after all that, [[spoiler: Sam still doesn't come clean, only doing so after Rafe forced him to tell the truth.]] And what's the worst he gets after that? [[spoiler: Nate angrily telling him he gave up his life for him.]] Considering everything that happened, I think he deserved far worse.rifles.
* Am I the only one who thought that Sam [[spoiler: got off a bit too easily for his lying about Alcazar being the reason for seeking out the treasure?]] Nate nearly ruined his relationship with Elena and nearly got himself killed dozens of times before she found out about what he was doing, and all this time he was doing it to save Sam [[spoiler: or so he thought.]] But even after all that, [[spoiler: Sam still doesn't come clean, only doing so after Rafe forced him to tell the truth.]] And what's the worst he gets after that? [[spoiler: Nate angrily telling him he gave up his life for him.]] Considering everything that happened, I think he deserved far worse.
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*** Yes, the "security guards" are just mob goons guarding an auction that is catering to the underworld.
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!! Navigation: [[Headscratchers/UnchartedDrakesFortune Drake's Fortune]] | [[Headscratchers/Uncharted2AmongThieves Among Thieves]] | [[Headscratchers/Uncharted3DrakesDeception Drake's Deception]] | [[Headscratchers/UnchartedGoldenAbyss Golden Abyss]] | A Thief's End | [[Headscratchers/UnchartedTheLostLegacy The Lost Legacy]] | [[Headscratchers/{{Uncharted}} Main Page]]
* In ''Among Thieves'', Nate took tranquilizer guns to the Museum because he didn't want to kill innocent guards doing their jobs. But now apparently he seems to be totally okay with that, seeing as how he remorselessly guns down the auction house guards in the heist. He also doesn't seem to mind Sam killing prison guards during the prison escape. Why the change? Did Naughty Dog just run out of valid reasons for Nate to kill people? I know Nate kills hundreds of people each game, but they are all supposed to be bad people: Bandits, pirates, soldiers working for a war criminal and such. It's really hard to keep up his image as the dashing romantic Errol Flyn-style thief (and now loving husband) when they turn him into such a remorseless murderer.
** To be fair, the museum guards in Uncharted 2 weren't armed to the teeth and itching for a robbery, and he went as stealthy as possible in terms of grabbing the cross until Rafe got involved. You can technically stealth your way through the scenes where they hunt you down too, but it's tricky. As for the prison guards, if Vargas and what happened to Sam's friendly guard were any indication, there's a certain degree of corruption in the entire guard system anyway.
*** Some of the museum guards are armed, and they do start shooting at you near the end of the level. I found going through the auction house without killing anyone is almost impossible once they start shooting at you, because there are parts where you have to get past tons of them. It also doesn't help that Nate doesn't have any non-lethal stealth takedown animations. As for the prison, just because some guards are corrupt doesn't mean it's okay to mow them all down indiscriminately when they are doing nothing but legitimately trying to stop a violent prison break by armed goons working for a drug dealer. In the past, Nate's crimes have been forgivable because they don't involve harming innocent people. You can't say the same thing for this game.
** This is going to sound spergy, but people tend to bothered by the narrative dissonance in the Uncharted series because while Indiana Jones can plausibly get away with the illegal and violent shit he pulls in a pre-WW2 era, we can't say the same for "just a normal guy" Nate because we know this is completely not how a modern day world works.
*** The people Doctor Jones chucked into moving propellers and tossed off cliffs were also ''Nazis'', who tend to garner slightly less sympathy than innocent security guards just trying to prevent a theft of someone else's property.
** Aren't the guards at the auction supposed to be Shoreline goons, hired to provide security for an auction that's explicitly being patronized by a who's-who of wealthy and powerful criminals?
*** I don't think they work for Shoreline. If they did, they would all speak English. My understanding was they were just regular security guards working for the auction house.
** IIRC they've been to the Rossi estate a few times, so it's possible they knew those weren't your ordinary security guards putting in a hard night's work. I got the impression it was an organized crime family's mansion.
* So when Sully decided to adopt Nate as a kid, did he basically just took him and left Sam all alone with little to no notice? Is that ever mentioned?
** There's a brief mention of Sam not really understanding/approving of Nate's relationship with Sully. They knew each other, but Sam was older and not particularly in need of a father figure, and so wasn't as close to him as Nate was.
* It's understandable Nate would choose to save his brother at all costs in the finale but I find it really hard to believe Drake & Co ain't remotely interested in going back to Liberteria to recover that sunk treasure worth $400 million, especially now he owns a marine salvage outfit.
** Good point, there really isn't any valid reason other then Naughty Dog loving to use the AllForNothing trope in this franchise.
** It's likely buried underneath literally tons of mountain, untold amounts of water, and at least partially melted from the fire. Even if there is any salvageable it would defeat the entire purpose of the theme, about those who obsess over the treasure die, far as the adventure goes they had the best possible outcome. Besides all that, it seems the Drakes were doing fairly well for themselves and were more than willing to move forward, which was the point of the lessons they all learned.
** The ship was already grounded in about 10' of water. So that part's not hard to deal with. The stones falling looked to be just at the entrance to the cavern, but true, the entire cave could have collapsed. Still, heavy mining equipment could still make a profit on a dig through that much stone, just for the raw metal value, let alone any historical value that escaped the fire.
** And who's to say that they didn't go back for it? Just because they have a beach house and keep exploring doesn't mean they don't have millions in the bank.
* Nate says the temple in Scotland is a "recruiting tool" for Henry Avery, but wouldn't that be really inefficient? Failing the final test causes the floor in the chamber to collapse into a bottomless pit. So what happens when someone fails? Did Avery just replace the entire floor before the next person came to the temple? That would be really time consuming and expensive. It would also require someone stationed at the temple so they would know the floor had collapsed and needed to be fixed.
** Bear in mind that the temple is centuries old and as Nate says some of it has rusted and fallen apart, so we are not seeing the structure as a whole. Secondly, it being ineffecient wouldn't stop Henry Avery the remorseless psychopath.
*** I was under the impression the flood collapsing when you fail the test was deliberate design, not the result of the temple being old. I understand Henry Avery is a psycho who designed the temple to kill people who fail the tests, you would just think he would do it in a manner in which the traps could be more easily reset after someone fails them, such as the spike trap on the door of the second one. It's pretty hard to reset an entire floor collapsing into oblivion.
* Small question. In the climax, Rafe manages to convince the surviving Shoreline mercenaries to turn on Ross. Did he buy out the entire contingent beforehand or since the contingent was being decimated, bribe the survivors as a more hastily improvised/last ditch measure?
** Probably beforehand. Rafe isn't shy about throwing around his money -- he bought ''all'' the land around that cathedral in Scotland, just to find the cross. Buying out a mercenary company would seem comparatively trivial.
* During the vehicle chase, Nate grabs a rope attached to an enemy truck and eventually manages to climb onboard. Why at no point during the process did the mook driver not just stop the truck and let the surrounding enemies kill Nate? I know he was chasing Sam at the time, but there were plenty of other vehicles who could have kept the pursuit going. Also it's unlikely the truck would have been able to chase down Sam anyway, since Sam was on a motorcycle.
* How did Elena find out Nathan was in Madagascar? He didn't leave her any clues as to where he was, yet she not only found out which country he was in, but even found the city and the hotel he was staying at.
** If you check Nate's journal immediately upon starting the driving section in the Madagascar level, you can find a receipt he's kept for all the expenses they've incurred getting there, including the jeep rental. All of them are going straight onto Sully's credit card, under Sully's real name. Since Elena is a professional travel writer and former international journalist, I assumed that she knows someone who could track credit expenses, which would have led her straight to the hotel room.
** She probably started by calling his boss, Jameson, who would've confirmed that he and his crew were grounded for the time being. Then, since Elena has a smart phone and Nate was still using his cell, she must've traced his call to none other than King's Bay (which is where their second conversation took place). My own iPhone can tell me where just about any call is coming from, so I imagine hers can do the same. Then, it was only a matter of booking a flight, following the gunfire, and narrowing down the search area; she wouldn't have had to call that many hotels to see which one her husband was registered under. Personally, I think finding Nate would be an easy feat for an accomplished journalist like Elena; the guy's hardly subtle.
*** You really think Nate checked into the hotel using his real name? Not likely, especially knowing Rafe and his army was pursuing him.
*** He could have some backup pseudonyms that Elena is familiar with and asked for.
* How is Shoreline carrying out operations in Scotland? The UK isn't a third world country. They aren't going going to let some private army come in with a huge arsenal unless there is a damn good reason. Considering how anti-gun the UK is, I just can't imagine them giving permission to a bunch of guys to go poking around their temples while carrying rocket launchers and automatic rifles.
* Am I the only one who thought that Sam [[spoiler: got off a bit too easily for his lying about Alcazar being the reason for seeking out the treasure?]] Nate nearly ruined his relationship with Elena and nearly got himself killed dozens of times before she found out about what he was doing, and all this time he was doing it to save Sam [[spoiler: or so he thought.]] But even after all that, [[spoiler: Sam still doesn't come clean, only doing so after Rafe forced him to tell the truth.]] And what's the worst he gets after that? [[spoiler: Nate angrily telling him he gave up his life for him.]] Considering everything that happened, I think he deserved far worse.
* In ''Among Thieves'', Nate took tranquilizer guns to the Museum because he didn't want to kill innocent guards doing their jobs. But now apparently he seems to be totally okay with that, seeing as how he remorselessly guns down the auction house guards in the heist. He also doesn't seem to mind Sam killing prison guards during the prison escape. Why the change? Did Naughty Dog just run out of valid reasons for Nate to kill people? I know Nate kills hundreds of people each game, but they are all supposed to be bad people: Bandits, pirates, soldiers working for a war criminal and such. It's really hard to keep up his image as the dashing romantic Errol Flyn-style thief (and now loving husband) when they turn him into such a remorseless murderer.
** To be fair, the museum guards in Uncharted 2 weren't armed to the teeth and itching for a robbery, and he went as stealthy as possible in terms of grabbing the cross until Rafe got involved. You can technically stealth your way through the scenes where they hunt you down too, but it's tricky. As for the prison guards, if Vargas and what happened to Sam's friendly guard were any indication, there's a certain degree of corruption in the entire guard system anyway.
*** Some of the museum guards are armed, and they do start shooting at you near the end of the level. I found going through the auction house without killing anyone is almost impossible once they start shooting at you, because there are parts where you have to get past tons of them. It also doesn't help that Nate doesn't have any non-lethal stealth takedown animations. As for the prison, just because some guards are corrupt doesn't mean it's okay to mow them all down indiscriminately when they are doing nothing but legitimately trying to stop a violent prison break by armed goons working for a drug dealer. In the past, Nate's crimes have been forgivable because they don't involve harming innocent people. You can't say the same thing for this game.
** This is going to sound spergy, but people tend to bothered by the narrative dissonance in the Uncharted series because while Indiana Jones can plausibly get away with the illegal and violent shit he pulls in a pre-WW2 era, we can't say the same for "just a normal guy" Nate because we know this is completely not how a modern day world works.
*** The people Doctor Jones chucked into moving propellers and tossed off cliffs were also ''Nazis'', who tend to garner slightly less sympathy than innocent security guards just trying to prevent a theft of someone else's property.
** Aren't the guards at the auction supposed to be Shoreline goons, hired to provide security for an auction that's explicitly being patronized by a who's-who of wealthy and powerful criminals?
*** I don't think they work for Shoreline. If they did, they would all speak English. My understanding was they were just regular security guards working for the auction house.
** IIRC they've been to the Rossi estate a few times, so it's possible they knew those weren't your ordinary security guards putting in a hard night's work. I got the impression it was an organized crime family's mansion.
* So when Sully decided to adopt Nate as a kid, did he basically just took him and left Sam all alone with little to no notice? Is that ever mentioned?
** There's a brief mention of Sam not really understanding/approving of Nate's relationship with Sully. They knew each other, but Sam was older and not particularly in need of a father figure, and so wasn't as close to him as Nate was.
* It's understandable Nate would choose to save his brother at all costs in the finale but I find it really hard to believe Drake & Co ain't remotely interested in going back to Liberteria to recover that sunk treasure worth $400 million, especially now he owns a marine salvage outfit.
** Good point, there really isn't any valid reason other then Naughty Dog loving to use the AllForNothing trope in this franchise.
** It's likely buried underneath literally tons of mountain, untold amounts of water, and at least partially melted from the fire. Even if there is any salvageable it would defeat the entire purpose of the theme, about those who obsess over the treasure die, far as the adventure goes they had the best possible outcome. Besides all that, it seems the Drakes were doing fairly well for themselves and were more than willing to move forward, which was the point of the lessons they all learned.
** The ship was already grounded in about 10' of water. So that part's not hard to deal with. The stones falling looked to be just at the entrance to the cavern, but true, the entire cave could have collapsed. Still, heavy mining equipment could still make a profit on a dig through that much stone, just for the raw metal value, let alone any historical value that escaped the fire.
** And who's to say that they didn't go back for it? Just because they have a beach house and keep exploring doesn't mean they don't have millions in the bank.
* Nate says the temple in Scotland is a "recruiting tool" for Henry Avery, but wouldn't that be really inefficient? Failing the final test causes the floor in the chamber to collapse into a bottomless pit. So what happens when someone fails? Did Avery just replace the entire floor before the next person came to the temple? That would be really time consuming and expensive. It would also require someone stationed at the temple so they would know the floor had collapsed and needed to be fixed.
** Bear in mind that the temple is centuries old and as Nate says some of it has rusted and fallen apart, so we are not seeing the structure as a whole. Secondly, it being ineffecient wouldn't stop Henry Avery the remorseless psychopath.
*** I was under the impression the flood collapsing when you fail the test was deliberate design, not the result of the temple being old. I understand Henry Avery is a psycho who designed the temple to kill people who fail the tests, you would just think he would do it in a manner in which the traps could be more easily reset after someone fails them, such as the spike trap on the door of the second one. It's pretty hard to reset an entire floor collapsing into oblivion.
* Small question. In the climax, Rafe manages to convince the surviving Shoreline mercenaries to turn on Ross. Did he buy out the entire contingent beforehand or since the contingent was being decimated, bribe the survivors as a more hastily improvised/last ditch measure?
** Probably beforehand. Rafe isn't shy about throwing around his money -- he bought ''all'' the land around that cathedral in Scotland, just to find the cross. Buying out a mercenary company would seem comparatively trivial.
* During the vehicle chase, Nate grabs a rope attached to an enemy truck and eventually manages to climb onboard. Why at no point during the process did the mook driver not just stop the truck and let the surrounding enemies kill Nate? I know he was chasing Sam at the time, but there were plenty of other vehicles who could have kept the pursuit going. Also it's unlikely the truck would have been able to chase down Sam anyway, since Sam was on a motorcycle.
* How did Elena find out Nathan was in Madagascar? He didn't leave her any clues as to where he was, yet she not only found out which country he was in, but even found the city and the hotel he was staying at.
** If you check Nate's journal immediately upon starting the driving section in the Madagascar level, you can find a receipt he's kept for all the expenses they've incurred getting there, including the jeep rental. All of them are going straight onto Sully's credit card, under Sully's real name. Since Elena is a professional travel writer and former international journalist, I assumed that she knows someone who could track credit expenses, which would have led her straight to the hotel room.
** She probably started by calling his boss, Jameson, who would've confirmed that he and his crew were grounded for the time being. Then, since Elena has a smart phone and Nate was still using his cell, she must've traced his call to none other than King's Bay (which is where their second conversation took place). My own iPhone can tell me where just about any call is coming from, so I imagine hers can do the same. Then, it was only a matter of booking a flight, following the gunfire, and narrowing down the search area; she wouldn't have had to call that many hotels to see which one her husband was registered under. Personally, I think finding Nate would be an easy feat for an accomplished journalist like Elena; the guy's hardly subtle.
*** You really think Nate checked into the hotel using his real name? Not likely, especially knowing Rafe and his army was pursuing him.
*** He could have some backup pseudonyms that Elena is familiar with and asked for.
* How is Shoreline carrying out operations in Scotland? The UK isn't a third world country. They aren't going going to let some private army come in with a huge arsenal unless there is a damn good reason. Considering how anti-gun the UK is, I just can't imagine them giving permission to a bunch of guys to go poking around their temples while carrying rocket launchers and automatic rifles.
* Am I the only one who thought that Sam [[spoiler: got off a bit too easily for his lying about Alcazar being the reason for seeking out the treasure?]] Nate nearly ruined his relationship with Elena and nearly got himself killed dozens of times before she found out about what he was doing, and all this time he was doing it to save Sam [[spoiler: or so he thought.]] But even after all that, [[spoiler: Sam still doesn't come clean, only doing so after Rafe forced him to tell the truth.]] And what's the worst he gets after that? [[spoiler: Nate angrily telling him he gave up his life for him.]] Considering everything that happened, I think he deserved far worse.
