History Headscratchers / IronFist2017

* Danny seemed to believe K'un L'un was destroyed at the end of the first season but in ''Series/TheDefenders2017'', Alexandra and Madame Gao implied that wasn't the case. Then came the second season of ''Series/LukeCage'' in which Danny told Luke he would take him to K'un L'un some day and introduce him to Shao-Lou, which shows Danny no longer believes the city is destroyed. Then in this season, Danny seems to be back to believing it's gone. Certainly Davos believes the city has been destroyed and Danny doesn't dispute this.

*** This brings up a somewhat related plot hole: Joy knew to an extent that Harold was dangerous, but why didn't Ward or Danny ever tell her that Harold was also responsible for murdering Danny's parents, and attempted to kill Danny more than once? Because I'm kinda surprised that Ward didn't bring that up when telling Joy about the extent of Harold's mistreatment of him.

** Yes, they could. Or they could persuade Mary and Joy to help them since, y'know, there's a kung fu madman on the loose and only Joy knows the full extent of Davos's plans, while only Mary has the skills to take him down. Yes, they could threaten them with arrest and attempt to apply pressure that way, but Misty decided that it was better to not endanger cops and to avoid getting bogged down in Joy's expensive lawyers, and just talk to them.

*** Though this raises a plot hole of why a warrior like the Iron Fist wasn't trained in K'un-L'un on that very topic of "how to fight when your sight/a limb/whatever is disabled", given that the Chaste, who carry out K'un-L'un's war against the Hand on the outside, have blind warriors like Stick and Stone among their ranks.
*** Because the Iron Fist was trained to be perfect. Focused, fierce and without weakness. That was hammered into Davos which explains his screwed up world view. Their focus was on one thing, without deviation. So not a plot hole more like a fatal flaw. A narrow viewpoint that got them what they thought they needed. Strong, disciplined fighters wielding a powerful mystical weapon until death. They never had to deal with an out of context problem like an Iron Fist being maimed or the power taken away from them. They fought until they died, in service of K'un-L'un then they spent decades training his or her successor to do the same till they died in action then continued the cycle. Also the Chaste and K'un-L'un while both enemies of the Hand, they were separate groups with different approaches. If [[Series/{{Daredevil|2015}} Matt and Elektra were any indication,]] the Chaste tracked down unique or skilled young ones and raised them to fight the Hand. In Danny’s and Davos case K'un-L'un raised their children to compete for a chance to face the dragon. Gain the power of the Iron Fist to protect K'un L'un, which may include fighting the Hand. The Chaste were in active war with the Hand. The Iron Fist fought the Hand when K'un-L'un needed protecting. In short the Chaste strategy was multiple soldiers in active warfare against the Hand. Davos trying to get Danny to come back to K'un-L'un would indicate the Iron Fist only fought the Hand to protect K'un-L'un. That the Iron Fist is first and foremost its defender first and its weapon second.

*** Here’s the thing K’un-L’un taught the person who is the Iron Fist to power through poison, pain or “bad odds”. As fitting as the sacred warrior and protector of K’un-L’un. The thing is Danny at the time was no longer an Iron Fist. That was the problem. It’s one thing to teach your Iron Fist to keep fighting no matter what, befitting of the title. Also while they use the term “Immortal” in the title it is metaphorical for behind the weapon is a very mortal man who can be maimed and killed. Not only that what happened to Danny was an out of context problem. It’s one thing to die as an Iron Fist, because no matter how good sooner or later they fall. It’s another thing to have what defined you, what you trained for and fought for stripped away from you. It’s an out of context problem not in the training of K’un-L’un. Danny fought for the Iron Fist and as Davos said it completed him. Without it he is off centre, unsure and hesitant. Stripped of his centre that is why Colleen trained him. To train him to function with a spiritual maiming of having a part of him stripped away. It’s one thing to fight against the odds as K’un-L’un would have taught him. It’s another to find yourself and your confidence when your title and definition was taken from you.

** That’s because Davos found himself another purpose. He went and took Danny’s purpose the Iron Fist. Not to mention Davos had always been driven, sure to an almost fanatical degree. Danny defined himself by the fist. To lose is one thing, but to be maimed or crippled is one thing he was taught to deal with. As its protector, and weapon the Iron Fist of K'un-L'un were taught to be vicious, uncompromising and disciplined if the trail and flashbacks were any indication. Its one thing to be trained a great fighter. It’s another thing to be trained to deal with a spiritual and mental wound. Which is what Danny is dealing with. It’s a psychological factor that was not accounted for. Death occurs, replace the Iron Fist. Death of purpose then what? Also Danny was not a hypocrite because this was not about a loss of Chi but a loss of identity. The Iron Fist while having problems powering up in season one was STILL there. It was still a part of him. This is not about imbalance but of actual loss of something within. Also they didn’t send a loser to fight the dragon. They sent one their best warriors who won the trails. But they taught the warrior to fight and win. The theft of an Iron Fist from a previous holder is an out of context problem K’un-L’un would not have considered.

** Danny and Colleen also try and attempt talking people out of confront Davos head-on, because short of hitting him with MoreDakka you're only going to step over a mountain of bodies, and they don't want him killed because they want to take the power of the Iron Fist out of him first (initially, to give it back to Danny). And it's unclear whether the chi transfer can be done with a dead body.

* In episode six, the crisis management man that Joy hired claims that Danny's apology video has more views on YouTube than a video with [[ComicBook/TheIncredibleHulk the incredible green guy]]. Really? If Wayne's just exaggerating, that doesn't seem like it would reassure Ward and Joy, or speak well of his expertise. We can't seriously be expected to believe this claim?

** There is never any indication that Danny ran away before being fully trained. Davos never calls him the unfinished Iron Fist. Nor the Iron Fist that ran away without finishing his training. There is no indication in the show that he is half trained, or not fully trained. An assumption that he was never fully trained would make valid that K’un Lun did not prepare him for its loss. But that’s an assumption that was never shown on screen or mentioned by any residents of K’un Lun. By any of the Hand, especially never mentioned by Davos. Basically an assumption to enforce a point pretty much cancels the point. So in effect and in show Danny was a fully trained Iron Fist with nothing to say otherwise besides your assumption that he ran off unfinished. That in itself does not make it a fact. Also the question was why Colleen was chosen. The logical argument was because Colleen from a young age was trained to a mentor to troubled people. Danny was a troubled person who lost his way when he lost his fist. Someone with experience, someone who he trusts, someone who knows how to push him. Danny had a loss, was not trained for that loss and was helped to deal with it by a person experienced with it. Simple, direct and made sense both story and personality wise. Imported drama? "White Savior" backlash? Nothing to do with the head scratcher itself or the questions it brought up.

** There is never any indication that Danny ran away before being fully trained. Davos never calls him the unfinished Iron Fist. Nor the Iron Fist that ran away. There is no indication in the show that he is half trained, or not fully trained. An assumption that he was never fully trained would make valid that K’un Lun did not prepare him for its loss. But that’s an assumption that was never shown on screen or mentioned by any residents of K’un Lun . By any of the Hand, especially never mentioned by Davos. Basically an assumption to make a point pretty much cancels the point.So in effect and in show Danny was a fully trained Iron Fist with nothing to say otherwise besides your assumption that he ran off. That in itself does not make it a fact.Also the question was why Colleen was chosen. The logical argument was because Colleen from a young age was trained to a mentor to troubled people. Danny was a troubled person who lost his way when he lost his fist. Someone with experience, someone who he trusts, someone who knows how to push him. Danny had a loss, was not trained for that loss and was helped to deal with it by a person experienced with it. Simple, direct and made sense both story and personality wise. Imported drama? "White Savior" backlash? Nothing to do with the head scratcher itself or the questions it brought up.

** There is never any indication that Danny ran away before being fully trained. Davos never calls him the unfinished Iron Fist. Nor the Iron Fist that ran away. There is no indication in the show that he is half trained, or not fully trained. An assumption that he was never fully trained would make valid that K’un Lun did not prepare him for its loss. But that’s an assumption that was never shown on screen or mentioned by any residents of K’un Lun . By any of the Hand, especially never mentioned by Davos. Basically an assumption to make a point pretty much cancels the point.So in effect and in show Danny was a fully trained Iron Fist with nothing to say otherwise besides your assumption that he ran off. That in itself does not make it a fact.Also the question was why Colleen was chosen. The logical argument was because Colleen from a young age was trained to a mentor to troubled people. Danny was a troubled person who lost his way when he lost his fist. Someone with experience, someone who he trusts, someone who knows how to push him. Danny had a loss, was not trained for that loss and was helped to deal with it by a person experienced with it. Simple, direct and made sense both story and personality wise.

## Read again, I'm not saying K'un Lun didn't or wouldn't train an Iron Fist to be prepared for potential power nullifiers, I'm against the blind assumption that they would have believed that nothing could stop an Iron Fist once they had the power or that they would simply expect them to bull through everything with sheer muscle and will alone, but that Danny ran away from the city BEFORE he could receive the full training needed to fully master his powers which would surely have included 'there are individuals capable of nullifying even your strength, he's what you have to know to be ready for.' Secondly, The antiquities collector notes the scroll to have had Tibetan origins trained to a mystical realm, which Misty *WINK WINK* calls out as K'un Lun before the curator looks at her like she's a goof. This is all of course off topic in this case. What my point was, is that this version of Danny needs to be looked at as a lot less knowledgeable about being able to keep himself centered and on point or to recover from a loss. The series almost always goes out of its way to show him as if he were an under prepared novice, he's easily thrown off of his game, lacks a complete sense of center and self outside of his superpower and can't seem to fight without it. This flies completely in the face of the way the character is presented in the comics, where yes, he is naive to modern life, but that never conflates with him being outright 'dumb' or unskilled as a fighter as he is often shown to be here. Even without the fist Danny in the comics proves himself to be an exceptional warrior (balancing the mental, physical and spiritual) outside of having the Iron Fist, he even manages to go toe to toe with Davos by himself without it and take it back. Here, to create drama and 'bonding' between him and Colleen, his skill and prowess as a fighter has to be degraded so he can fall into a place where Colleen can teach him things he should already have understood as part of training just to take part in the tournament to become the Iron Fist. K'un Lun would only have accepted the best warriors to do this. If the series wanted to make a better point of it, why couldn't Danny simply be allowed to meditate, as he often does, to come to this understanding on his own, as any other MCU Defender might be allowed? I would argue that because for all the talk of making this the redeeming season, the only change made was to hand the reigns over to Colleen to take on the role of advisor and mentor to what is supposed to be the lead of the series and then, also giving HER what is supposed to be HIS trademark power, because she's become the breakout for the series. The reason Colleen got promoted to the trainer of the best warrior of K'un Lun was due to her popularity and more than likely, backlash against 'White Savior' or some other such nonsense, which has been the bane of the series since its inception.

** How is a scroll detailing how to steal the Iron Fist proof that K’un Lun did not train the Iron Fist to deal with the loss of their power? One, there is no actual proof that the scroll originated from K’un Lun. Implication is not definition of fact. Two, it’s a headscratcher about why Colleen is training Danny to get his mojo back not a criticism of his ability. Which unlike in season one is more evident. Three, this season Danny has the skill what he lost that caused issue was what defined him which was the Iron Fist. An eventuality that K’un Lun most likely did not train their warriors for because they could not either conceive of it, or refused to consider the possibility. Alternatively it is possible the K’un Lun did not train the wielder about the possibility of having to continue without the Iron Fist because if they did create the ritual to strip away its power from an unworthy user, they would not want any wielder to be aware of such a ritual in case it is needed. So it is possible that they did not train them to deal with such a scenario in case they need to enact it when necessary. So if the wielder is maimed, later found unworthy, or continue in their duties for some reason. They remove the Fist without them being able to stop it so it could be passed on to someone else. None the less the original point still stands it is a scenario the wielder in this case Danny was not prepared for mentally, or emotionally for the loss of what defined him. So needed help from Colleen to deal with it .

** How is a scroll detailing how to steal the Iron Fist proof that K’un Lun did not train the Iron Fist to deal with the loss of their power? One, there is no actual proof that the scroll originated from K’un Lun. Implication is not definition of fact. Two, it’s a headscratcher about why Colleen is training Danny to get his mojo back not a criticism of his ability. Which unlike in season one is more evident. Three, this season Danny has the skill what he lost that caused issue was what defined him which was the Iron Fist. An eventuality that K’un Lun most likely did not train their warriors for because they could not either conceive of it, or refused to consider the possibility. Alternatively it is possible the K’un Lun did not train the wielder about the possibility of having to continue without the Iron Fist because if they did create the ritual to strip away its power from an unworthy user, they would not want any wielder to be aware of such a ritual in case it is needed. So it is possible that they did not train them to deal with such a scenario in case they need to enact it when necessary. So if the wielder is maimed or continue, or unworthy. They remove the Fist without them being able to stop it so it could be passed on to someone else. None the less, the original point still stands it is a scenario the wielder in this case Danny is not prepared for mentally, or emotionally and needs help with hence Colleen.

** How is a scroll detailing how to steal the Iron Fist proof that K’un Lun did not train the Iron Fist to deal with the loss of their power? One, there is no actual proof that the scroll originated from K’un Lun. Implication is not definition of fact. Two, it’s a headscratcher about why Colleen is training Danny to get his mojo back not a criticism of his ability. Which unlike in season one is more evident. Three, this season Danny has the skill what he lost that caused issue was what defined him which was the Iron Fist. So the original point still stands that the loss of the fist caused the problem as a loss of identity which Colleen was helping him deal with. An eventuality that K’un Lun did not train their warriors for because they could not either conceive of it, or refused to consider the possibility.

** But that flies in the face of there then existing a scroll which is specifically implied to have come out of K'un Lun which details a ceremony down to the most minute detail of how to strip a warrior of such power. There's no way that this wasn't something that was considered when schooling the next Iron Fist in the responsibilities and limits of their powers. the only thing the writers can fall back on here is the decision to have Danny abandon the city before the total completion of his training as an Iron Fist, which would likely have included running through ways that enemies might be able to nullify his power in some way. Just because the Iron Fist is meant to embody the best of K'un Lun's warrior elite shouldn't mean that its leaders were stupid or short sighted enough to believe that they could NEVER be beaten or killed. There are 6 other Mystical Cities that all boast warriors of similar caliber that were rivals with them at various points that would have studied specifically to deal with the big gun of the K'un Lun warriors. More or less, we have to accept the situation as it is, because Danny as written here, is basically grim n' gritty Peter Paker. An overpowered novice, who in spite of all the advantages of his background is stuck in a constant state of learner to all of the 'cooler' kids of the Netflix MCU. He's not the Danny of the comics, who although naive to modern life, was an exceptional warrior and tactician, befitting someone who grew up in an intensely martial culture like K'un Lun but also excelled enough to be allowed to partake in their most sacred rite and being the first non native to do so in almost 1000 years. Comics Danny also was wise enough to fully complete his training, and more importantly, left K'un Lun with the full blessing of its rulers, one of whom loved him as a son and would have basically given him the chance to become truly immortal, though Danny politely declined, as he could never let Harold Meachum go free for killing his parents (which he witnessed firsthand)

* So... are we gonna have to wait for Season 3 for it to be explained or will it not? Also, does this mean that Danny is going to prove everyone wrong about being the "worst Iron Fist ever", and that's he's ''actually' going evolve and reach the place he was supposed to be before leaving K'un Lun?

** They taught Danny to fight through being poisoned, that's how he beat the Bride of Nine. Iron Fist is an immortal weapon and sworn enemy of the Hand but they don't teach them to fight against bad odds because that's never be useful as sole protector?