Cleaning Up Mary Sue


(permanent link) added: 2008-12-12 15:29:25 sponsor: LordTNK (last reply: 2008-12-22 11:52:11)

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No Launching Please. Not until we actually work out what to do.

The thing is that most of the examples on the Mary Sue pages either show a poor understanding of sues, or are just an excuse to bash a character.

Of the first kind, God-Mode Sue has Achilles listed. That character is not a Sue. He's a paragon, based on themes that have been lost over the years. I was half tempted to put Jesus on that list, if he isn't already.

Of the second kind, loads of examples seem to be just selectively listing (or outright making up) bad attributes of characters to make them look like sues, which is basically trying to claim those characters suck.

Mary Sue is not any character you don't like (despite what Etherial Mutation thought). It's a very specific character type.

But part of the problem is that the descriptions for all the pages are too long. Too much clutter, leaving the core definitions buried, making it easy to abuse the examples.

These really need to be cleared of the clutter in the descriptions. So who wants to help?

Of course a solid definition is important.

EDIT: Fast Eddie pointed out in the Mary Sue Discussion page that one definition might not be enough. I personally think at least a core definition is important, to tie them all together, and I say that core is extreme Wish Fulfillment. It's just that the fulfillment can take many forms.

A God-Mode Sue would be taking mythological heroes without understanding the themes an purposes of those stories. NOT just any character you personally think is too powerful for the story, especially if the character actually isn't.

A Relationship Sue is the fulfillment of giving a character a "better" mate than the existing one. It isn't just a character in a new relationship. It has to be a character that is either too good to be true, or a character where the "better" traits are really dubious.

It may be possible to make a well done Sue, but the term has too negative an association to actually be anything less than a knock on a character, which is, again, why some instead just use the term as a form of character bashing.
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