Created By: Ambar on February 8, 2012 Last Edited By: DAN004 on January 1, 2015
Nuked

Justice, Discipline, And Chaos

A PowerTrio of nations or armies or any other organization

Name Space:
Main
Page Type:
Trope
DAN 004 wuz ere takin over ur druft


A variant of Shades of Conflict that depicts 3 major factions in the story as either "the right", "the orderly" and "the chaotic".

  • Justice can take many forms depending on the setting, but what all of them have in common is claiming some sort of righteousness. They may claim to represent the will of the people, or they may claim a mission from God, or descent from an ancient king, or the moral high ground of working hard and being nice to everyone. In more cynical settings, this righteousness may be a facade. In war, Justice's soldiers will be inspired by their cause, and in peace, Justice's policies will be in line with whatever cause they claim. Justice usually either is or pretends to be Neutral Good or Lawful Good.

  • Discipline believes in good organization and discipline. In the army, Discipline's soldiers will be well-trained and taught to obey orders quickly and efficiently. Domestically, Discipline's nation will have an organized bureaucracy that enforces its laws and builds up infrastructure, in assorted cases improving it's citizens' lives in the process. Alignment-wise, Discipline is strongly Lawful and either Good, Neutral or Evil, depending on the nation's general role in the story.

  • Chaos is defined by being ruthless, unpredictable, and otherwise not bound by what is "usual" or "conventional". In assorted stories, they will be a "rogue state" who refuses not just to be conquered but also is disinclined to take part in alliances with other powers, and if they survive, it's because they're strong enough or ruthless enough to take on everyone else. While they don't have a monopoly on superweapons, if only one of the three armies develops a superpowerful weapon - or super-soldier - that one will be Chaos, due to its lack of emphasis on "teamwork", and often enough Chaos survives because its leader is exactly that super soldier. As one can imagine, Chaos is Chaotic in alignment, and either Good, Neutral or Evil depending on their role in the story.

In a Freudian Trio, the Chaos would most probably be the Id, the Discipline the Superego, and the Justice the Ego.

Often involves Balance of Power. See also Rule of Three, Foil (Which can go for any of the factions towards another faction), Morality Kitchen Sink and Order vs Chaos. Compare The Good, the Bad, and the Evil.


Examples

Anime and Manga
  • From Magi Labyrinth of Magic:
    • Sindria, the "City of Dreams," as Justice. It's governed by The Good King (for the most part) Sinbad, who states he built it to give a home to anyone who had none, and his loyal Eight Generals. After reinstating reforms, Alibaba seems to be working on making Balbadd this, too.
    • The Reim Empire, being a Fantasy Counterpart Culture of Ancient Rome, is unsurprisingly Discipline; with incredibly structured soldiers and using science and chemistry to improve both their fighting and the citizens' lives.
    • The militaristic, ruthless Kou Empire (a Fantasy Counterpart Culture of China) as Chaos, which is fond of aggressively invading neighboring countries, putting other countries in their debt by linking their currencies and then leaving it to highly fluctuate, and has ties to Al-Thamen, the organization devoted to spreading chaos.
  • The Three Kings in YuYu Hakusho. Zero-Context Example
  • In Bleach, there are three spiritual types of beings: Shinigami, Quincy and Hollow. Shinigami, according to their Commander, are the guardians of balance and spiritual justice as decreed by the Soul King. Word of God states that the Quincy are symbolic of pure logic and cold pragmatism and obey the orders of their King without question. Hollow are Always Chaotic Evil carnivores that only respect power. Their "King" is simply whoever's strongest at the time, which means that a Klingon Promotion is extremely common.
  • The three main factions in One Piece:
    • Marines are disciplined, they obey and enforce the law in the countries affiliated to the World Government. They serve a government corrupt and decadent, but they still mantain the peace in most of the world in the middle of the Pirate Age.
    • The Revolutionaries are the just, they want to overthrow the oppresive World Government to put an end to the atrocities committed by the World Nobles, but every country they free from the Nobles gets tangled in their war.
    • The pirates are the chaotic, for simply being what they are: plundering gangsters who are a terror to the civilians. The Yonko (Four Emperors) in particular are 4 most powerful pirates, they control the New World, which is mostly outside the Marines' influence. They (more or less) protect the countries under their power from being constantly ravaged by pirates, but they can be as well tyrants or heroes, and they fight each other (and the constant waves of new pirates that want to overthrow them) all the time.

Fan Fics
  • In Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality there is the Dragon army, led by Draco Malfoy, which imitates the tactics of professional armies. The Chaos legion, led by Harry Potter, orders his solders to disobey all orders if they think it's a good idea (unless prefixed by "Merlin Says", which that order was not), and always tries to one-up the other two armies in raw power. The Sunshine regiment, led by Hermione Granger, paints themselves as the "good students" who can do anything if they study hard enough, and often do.

Literature
  • From A Song of Ice and Fire:
    • Justice: The Starks and the Northmen, who as a whole tend to be idealistic and honorable have deep senses of moral integrity and loyalty (with a few exceptions). Renly and Daenerys also saw themselves as leaders of Justice factions, but Renly dies before he can achieve anything and Daenerys's methods are closer to Discipline.
    • Discipline: The Lannisters and the South, exemplified by their ruthless, militaristic leaders (such as Tywin Lannister) and their propensity for brutally dealing with anyone who gets in their way. As noted above, Daenerys is sliding into this territory.
    • Chaos: The wildlings beyond the wall (even after Stannis falls in with them) are chaotic in their methods, if not their success rate. House Greyjoy as well, despite their brief rule.
  • Among the major superpowers in the Honor Harrington series:
    • The Star Kingdom of Manticore best fits Discipline, boasting the single most powerful naval force around and having the strongest naval tradition. Its officers generally fall under Good Is Not Soft, doing all they can to avoid unnecessary death but not being afraid to dish it out as needed.
    • The (People's) Republic of Haven would be Chaos, having gone through multiple regime changes and being the main antagonists for much of the series. Even their best government (the restored Republic under Eloise Pritchart) isn't afraid to be ruthless as needed.
    • The Solarian League represents (or once did at least) Justice. As the single largest power for centuries, they were typically cast as the enforcers of interstellar law. Though this has lessened by the present day due to centuries of corruption and arrogance on their part.

Tabletop RPG
  • Warhammer Fantasy has
  • In Warhammer 40K, there's;
    • Justice: The Tau, a coalition of races who believe in "the Greater Good". The Imperium might fit this, since it's based around following the Imperial Cult and worshipping The Emperor (or what's left of him).
    • Discipline: The Imperium might fit here instead (since it's basically a theocratic dictatorship). The Craftworld Eldar definitely fit here (maintaining discipline to avoid a repeat of the incident where they made a God of Evil through pure decadence). The Necrons are the most extreme example, being a faction of ancient robots (or rather living beings which were bound to robotic bodies) who're basically The Terminator expies.
    • Chaos: Dark Eldar (Eldar who decided to try appeasing said God of Evil through Cold-Blooded Torture of captured slaves), The Orks (a race of violently insane green skinned football hooligans who are, in their own words "MADE FUR FIGHTIN' AN WINNIN'!"), the Tyranids (a Swarm Of Alien Locusts who exist only to infest and devour whole planets) and the forces of Chaos (various demons and cultists who are or are worshipping creatures from The Warp).

Video Games
  • Present in the races of World of Warcraft.
    • The Alliance
      • The Draenei and humans fall under Justice, especially their respective orders of Paladins.
      • The sturdy Dwarves are some of the finest craftsmen in Azeroth, while the Night Elves stood watch for millenia with endless patience, and together they represent Discipline.
      • The game actually remarks that it's a wonder and Gnomes survive to reproduce with all their eccentricities and tendency to wreak havoc with their creations. The beastial Worgen, while they have learned to control their wild forms, still seem to exist only half in civilized society. Both races take to Chaos.
    • The Horde:
      • The militaristic Orcs embody Discipline.
      • The Tauren, devoted to the Earth Mother, and Blood Elves both serve their own forms of Justice.
      • The Forsaken, who have a reputation for being underhanded and treacherous, Goblins, only joined the Horde because there was profit in it, and Trolls, who...yeah, are all very much of Chaos.
    • The Pandaren can be of either faction, but their whole culture favors Discipline.
  • Each of the three races in StarCraft have factions that fit the trio.
    • Terrans:
      • As a race they don't have a proper Hat due its long history of conflict, but there are still many of them who would simply want a good place to live
      • Raynor's Raiders and the Sons of Korhal before Arcturus Mengsk became Emperor andjust as corrupt as the confederacy are Justice Freedom Fighters and even within the Corrupt Confederacy many of the outer worlds were opposed to their practices.
      • The Confederacy, Arcturus Mengsk and the UED are Discipline, they focus on keeping the order on the planets under their jurisdiction, and the efficiency of their armies, but don't be surprised if any of them decide to pull a genocide or two
      Gerard Du Gall :Serve the Directorate. Serve Humanity. All other priorities are secondary to victory!
      • And Finaly, since there are so many faction in the Koprulu Sector at some point incluiding Mengsk Group, the "Sons of Korhal" , there are many examples of chaos, ragtag armies, psychopats, mercenaries and a big ammount of dangerous individuals, to the point the Dicipline groups draw from the "resocialized" prisioners and still have plenty left to keep fighting
      Arcturus Mengsk You'll regret that. You don't seem to realize my situation here. I will not be stopped. Not by you, or the Confederates, or the Protoss, or anyone. I will rule this sector or see it burnt to ashes around me! If you try to get in my way...

    • Zerg
      • as a whole is seen like chaos by the other factions, a Horde of Alien Locusts with no other objetive but to devour everything that comes across their sight
      • The Overmind [[YMMV depending of your point of view]] and considering it's unique moral code, only wants the best for his own race, making them evolve until they become the Ultimate Species(so it may see itself as Justice), if it has to slaughter and assimilate any other form of life to do it,well, so be it
      Zerg Overmind: My children, the hour of our victory is at hand. For upon this world of Aiur shall we incorporate the strongest known species into our fold. Then shall we be the greatest of creation's children. We shall be... Perfect.

      • The Cerebrates are Zerg Commanders (and Discipline Here), Always loyal to the overmind,keeping the broods under control, and planning all their attack Strategies(and yes, Zerg Rush and We Have Reserves also count as strategies)
      • after the first Overmind's Death, Kerrigan, The Queen of Blades would be Chaos, ruthless, scheming, Unffettered and with Chronic Backstabbing Disorder, she'll stop to nothing on her quest of power and domination.
    You see at this point, I'm pretty much the Queen Bitch of the Universe, and not all of your little soldiers or space ships will stand in my way again.

    • Protoss
      • The Race as a whole is a Proud Warrior Dogmatic Race, with a strict code of conduct(maybe a little too strict), and well versed on the art of war,and Relatively Good Guys(just don't give them a reason to kill you, like accidentally getting your planet infected by the Zerg) so in general they count as discipline, however, they are not inmune to Internal Struggles
      • The Conclave is the Ruling elite, responsable their religion, culture and traditions, as well as a very strict cast system and a strong military
      • The Conclave sees the Nerazim (Dark Templar) as Chaotic Heretics who rejected the Khala, while the Nerazim consider the conclave to be foolish tyrants with delussions of power and screwed priorities, also seem the Khala link as a treat to their individuality(note that despide being exiled, the Nerazim still have a lot in common with the rest of the protoss tribes, and want to be back to their homeworld someday)
      • Also Tassadar, and all the Protoss who followed him (including the player, and Artanis, who eventually became the next leader after the conclave's downfall) are more Justice, wanting to reunite all the (surviving) tribes, rebuild Aiur, and even have some good relationships with individuals of other species(Like Raynor's Raiders)
  • Fallout: New Vegas gives us the New California Republic, Caesar's Legion, Mr. House, and The Courier himself.
    • The NCR and Mr. House represents Order.
      • The NCR military inhabits the Mojave Wasteland because the corrupt politicians of their government insist that they expand outward to acquire new resources. The Hoover Dam in particular is the main reason why they're there. Despite that, the soldiers of the NCR military are generally concerned about the safety and well being of the locals, even if they know that their own government doesn't realize they're expanding their resources thin. Their presence brings order to the Mojave Wasteland. The locals are a little displeased about their presence, but they cannot deny that they're better off with them instead of Caesar's Legion.
      • Mr. House is the "President, CEO, and sole proprietor" of the city of New Vegas. His ultimate goal is to secure New Vegas as an independent nation that neither the NCR or the Legion can touch. He's got an entire army of heavily armed and armored Securitron robots to back up his claim. The robots maintain order in the streets of New Vegas and make sure that no disruptive behavior happens between the three houses that run the casinos in the city, and the citizens and travelers visiting.
    • Caesar's Legion represents Discipline. An entire nation accurately modeled after Ancient Rome, Caesar himself ensures that his citizens are kept away from old-world technology, because he knows that forcing everyone to use the same level of technology ensures that everyone has to work the same amount in order to be efficient. Soldiers of the Legion are lucky if they are ever given a 2nd chance if they fail an assignment, because the penalty of death is always looming over them. Women are enslaved, literally being used as nothing more than work horses and breeding stock. The Legion knows what Discipline is. They're harsh, and extremely cruel, but they're efficient.
    • The Courier represents Chaos... if you so choose. The Wild Card series of quests has the Courier securing New Vegas, the Hoover Dam, and everything else in the Mojave Wasteland for yourself. Depending on the outcome of the various settlements and factions that you interact with, you can turn the whole Mojave into a general paradise, or reduce everything to complete chaos.
  • Runescape has many factions, some of which fit this trope.
    • Both Saradomin and Armadyl could be considered Justice.
    • Saradomin could also be considered Discipline, but Zaros embodies that trope the best. The main teaching of Zaros is to control yourself and those below you, and defer to those above you. In fact, just being loyal to Zaros was the only known teaching that he had for years.
    • Zamorak, naturally, is Chaos, with the most diverse armies in terms of many species and ideologies.

Web Comics
  • Draconia Chronicles has Tigers as Justice, Dragons as Discipline, and Foxes as Chaotic, since one of their spies is playing the other two factions off each other.
  • The three major powers in Girl Genius are the Storm King (Justice), Baron Wulfenbach (Discipline), and the Heterodynes (Chaos). The Storm King is a legendary "good king" from ages past, and the current faction claims the legitimacy coming from descent from the Storm King and the backing of the "Fifty Families" (noble houses or something). Baron Wulfenbach, who is currently in power, keeps a tight control over his well-disciplined army and his bureaucracy, lets people alone as long as they do what he tells them, and is generally constructive in fixing up and improving cities he controls. The Heterodyne family has historically been a family of mad scientists who ruled from their invincible fortress Castle Heterodyne, and now Agatha is reclaiming their status as a "historically troublesome rogue state" who can't be conquered because of said invincible castle, and thus has no need for niceties or alliances with other powers.
Community Feedback Replies: 77
  • February 9, 2012
    PaulA
    You need a more generic set of labels. The current set don't mean anything to anybody who hasn't read Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality.
  • February 9, 2012
    GuesssWho
    They sort of work without it . . .
  • February 9, 2012
    MarkThis
    The T'au (for the Greater Good!) and Humanity (FOR THE EMPRAH!) are Sunshine, in a grimdark way, Necrons and Eldar are Dragon, THE CHAOS LEGIONS and orcs are CHAOS. WAAAAAAAAGH!

    In Gurren Lagann, the Gurren Brigade is Chaos. Their opponents try very hard to be Dragon, but they let their emotions get the better of them and easily fall into Chaos.
  • February 9, 2012
    moriwen
    I agree that a different set of labels is needed. Especially since "Dragon Army" is much better known (and inspired in HP and the Methods of Rationality) by its use in Ender's Game, where it's a Chaos Legion.
  • February 9, 2012
    Koveras
  • February 9, 2012
    MarkThis
    Nope, it just doesn't fit there. This is about the "source of strength" and "morale backbone" of a faction, not whether they use small and fast units or big and slow ones. Sunshine is The Fettered, Chaos is the Blithe Spirit, and Dragon...

    Actually Harry asked to be Dragon first, but Malfoy basically copyright-sued him on account of his first name, so Harry went with the next best thing.

    As for alignments, Sunshine wants to be Good, Chaos wants to be... duh, and Dragon wants to be Lawful.
  • February 9, 2012
    zarpaulus
    I really don't think you should use words from a Fan Fic to describe a trope.
  • February 9, 2012
    LobsterMagnus
    Would the three factions in Star Craft count?
  • February 10, 2012
    Damr1990
    ^if you count Raynor's Raiders as Terran Representative, i think so, if you want to make some more divisions within
    • Terran,
      • Raynors Raiders and Sons of Korhal before Arcturus Mengsk became Emperor andjust as corrupt as the confederacy are Sunshine Freedom Fighters
      • The Confederacy, and the UED are Lawful Evil Dragons, they focus on keeping the order on the planets under their jurisdiction, and the efficency of their armies, but don't be surprised if any of them decide to pull a genocide or two from time to time
      • Arcturus Mengks after he became Obsesed with power
      You'll regret that. You don't seem to realize my situation here. I will not be stopped. Not by you, or the Confederates, or the Protoss, or anyone. I will rule this sector or see it burnt to ashes around me! If you try to get in my way...
    --after he became Emperor

    • Zerg
      • The overmind [[YMMV depending of your point of view]] and considering it's unique moral code, only wants the best for his own race, making them evolve until they become the Ultimate Species(so it may see itself as Sunshine), if it has to slaughter and asimilate any other form of life to do it,well, so be it
      Zerg Overmind: My children, the hour of our victory is at hand. For upon this world of Aiur shall we incorporate the strongest known species into our fold. Then shall we be the greatest of creation's children. We shall be... Perfect.
      • The Cerebrates are Zerg Commanders(And Dragons Here), Always loyal to the overmind,keeping the broods under control, and planning all their attack Strategies(and yes, Zerg Rush and We Have Reserves also count as strategies)
      • after the first Overmind's Death, Kerrigan, The Queen of Blades would be Chaos, ruthless, scheming, Unffetered and with Chronic Backstabbing Dissorder, she'll stop to nothing on her quest of power and dommain
      You see at this point, I'm pretty much the Queen Bitch of the Universe, and not all of your little soldiers or space ships will stand in my way again.
      • Also the Zerg as a whole is seen like chaos by the other factions

    • Prottoss
      • The Race as a whole is a Proud Warrior Dogmatic Race, with a strict code of conduct(maybe a little too strict), and well versed on the art of war,and Relatively Good Guys(just don't give them a reason to kill you, like accidentaly getting your planet infected by the zerg) so in general they count As dragoons(they even have a unit with that name), however, they are not inmune to Internal Strugglings
      • The Conclave sees the Nerazim(Dark Templar) as Chaotic Heretics who rejected the Khala, while the Nerazim consider the conclave to be foolish tyrants with delussions of power and screwed priorities, also seem the khala link as a treat to their individuality(note that despide being exiled, the nerazim still have a lot in common with the rest of the protoss tribes, and want to be back to their homeworld someday)
      • Also Tassadar, and all the prottos who followed him(Incluiding The player, and Artanis, who eventually became the next leader after the conclave's downfall) are more Sunshine, wanting to reunite all the (surviving) tribes, rebuild Aiur, and even have some good relationships with individuals of other species(Like Raynor's Raiders)
  • February 10, 2012
    JobanGrayskull
    From A Song Of Ice And Fire, Robb Stark and the Northmen are Sunshine, the Lannisters and the South are the Dragon, and the Wildlings beyond the Wall are the Chaos (at least from the point of view presented in the books). The Wildlings may see themselves as Sunshine.

    Edit: Daenerys also probably sees herself as a Sunshine Regiment; however she literally qualifies as a Dragon army in all senses.
  • February 10, 2012
    Tambov333
    • The Storm King Conspiracy are in no way "Sunshine".
  • February 10, 2012
    MarkThis
    You mean Stannis' faction? They're Chaotic in methods.
  • February 10, 2012
    zarpaulus
    ^^^ House Greyjoy probably qualifies as another "Chaos" faction, however brief their reign is. Renly was also "Sunshine".

    ^^ It seems to me that the keyword for "Sunshine" is that they claim righteousness, the Knights of Jove quite certainly posed as a populist uprising. What with their hypocritical accusations of the Baron ruling by force.
  • February 10, 2012
    Ryuuma
    Say what you like, I think it needs a different name. The current one sounds very confusing if you don't know the context. So you can either change it or make sure that all the tropers read about this fan fiction thing.
  • February 10, 2012
    Sailor11sedna
    Yu Yu Hakusho brought us the three kings.
  • February 10, 2012
    spudwalt
    Would some of the armies in the Nintendo Wars series count as examples? For instance, the first Advance Wars: Orange Star would be the Sunshine, since they're fighting for a cause (protect others from the machinations of Black Hole). Yellow Comet would probably be the Dragon, since they're led by Kanbei, whose units are much stronger and more expensive than other characters (explained in dialogue somewhere as the result of superior training, if I recall -- plus, all his units tend to show up in formation at the start of missions). Black Hole, of course, would be Chaos, since they're trying to take over everybody else -- bonus points for being the ones with all the superweapons.
  • February 18, 2012
    Ambar
    Agreed that this needs a better title. I couldn't come up with one, so I gave it this one. Does anyone have any ideas? Also, I'm not around much, so I should probably put this Up For Grabs.

    Re A Song of Ice and Fire: only read the first book, but I think the Starks as Sunshine (principled, just) and the Lannisters as Dragon sounds right. The wildlings in book 1, since we don't get to see their leadership, seem more like a force of nature than Chaos, but for all I know that changes. Danaerys as of the end of A Game of Thrones looks ready to become a perfect example of Chaos, ignoring her expected retirement and with enough firepower (literally) to conquer on her own without alliances or concessions, but again she could easily go a different route in the actual story. I should mention that while Chaos is very chaotic, a "force of nature" is not any of these factions - even Chaos has to be a single side with some cohesiveness. (The prototype, Chaos Legion, uses chaotic tactics but has in fact less disloyalty than the other two armies even when traitors are "allowed".)

    Re Storm King: They're "Sunshine" in the sense that that's the facade they use to justify themselves, namely the legendary heroic Storm King.
  • February 20, 2012
    OmarKarindu
  • May 27, 2013
    zarpaulus
    ^ More like The Good The Bad And The Chaotic from the looks of things.

    • In the browser game Imperium Galactic War the three player factions are the goody-two-shoes Intergalactic Alliance, the conquering Tyrannar Empire, and the anarcho-capitalist Sovereignty.
  • May 31, 2013
    Synchronicity
    ^^ Wildlings get expanded on in Book 3, and they're basically Chaotic in their methods, if not in their success rate.

    In favor of changing the labels.

    • From Magi Labyrinth Of Magic:
      • Sindria, the "City of Dreams," as Sunshine. It's governed by The Good King (for the most part) Sinbad, who states he built it to give a home to anyone who had none, and his loyal Eight Generals. After reinstating reforms, Alibaba seems to be working on making Balbadd this, too.
      • The Reim Empire, being a Fantasy Counterpart Culture of Ancient Rome, is unsurprisingly Dragon; with incredibly structured soldiers and using science and chemistry to improve both their fighting and the citizens' lives.
      • The militaristic, ruthless Kou Empire (a Fantasy Counterpart Culture of China) as Chaos, which is fond of aggressively invading neighboring countries, putting other countries in their debt by linking their currencies and then leaving it to highly fluctuate, and has ties to Al-Thamen, the organization devoted to spreading chaos.
  • May 31, 2013
    dvorak
    Tabletop RPG

    Web Comics
    • Draconia Chronicles has Tigers as Sunshine, Dragons as, well, what else? and Foxes as Chaotic, since one of their spies is playing the other two factions off each other.
  • June 7, 2013
    TheHandle
    • In Mass Effect, you have the Citadel and its allies as the self-righteous Justice, the Reapers as the Discipline (via direct control), and Cerberus as the Chaotic hyper-proactive bunch with the superweapons.
  • June 7, 2013
    Larkmarn
    ... good lord, could someone rename this?
  • June 15, 2013
    DracMonster
  • June 15, 2013
    WeAreAllKosh
    (Originally had a summary of the Babylon 5 myth arc, but thought it was too spoilery so deleted it. I'll save it for the page when it launches, if it fits.

    But for those familiar: while Vorlons = discipline and Shadows = chaos is pretty obvious, do you think that Sheridan/Conspiracy of Light (especially post-"Z'ha'dum") came into its own to represent justice?)

    P.S. I'm not at all familiar with Harry Potter so don't know that context. Also, the Shadows did ally with some younger races (the description implied that "chaos" factions generally don't form alliances), but those alliances were manipulative, part of their chess game, and far from equitable. Of course, we find out that Vorlon alliances were similarly manipulative and not equitable either.
  • June 15, 2013
    emorgan18
    the good, the bad, and the crazy
  • June 16, 2013
    TheHandle
    ^That's good. Current name is also pretty good.
  • June 16, 2013
    jatay3
    In Vorkosigan Saga Beta is justice, Barrayar is discipline, Jackson's Whole is chaos.
  • June 21, 2013
    Synchronicity
    Is anyone going to add the new examples?
  • June 28, 2013
    legendofhugh
    Tricky thing about this trope is it all depends on point of view for me: Anyway, in Star Wars, the Rebels are Justice, the Empire are Discipline (though pretty ruthless in their own right) and the Outer Rim crime syndicates (most often led by a Hutt faction) are Chaos.

  • July 3, 2013
    zarpaulus
    ^ In Empire At War in particular, the Zann consortium is definitely chaos.
  • July 14, 2013
    Paradisesnake
    The Starcraft example doesn't name the source at all. Also, following examples need context added (i.e. how do the factions fit these three groups): Yu Yu Hakusho, Warhammer Fantasy and Draconia Chronicles.
  • July 14, 2013
    zarpaulus
    ^ I'll take care of the Starcraft example. Gods that was bad spelling.
  • July 18, 2013
    DAN004
    Justice Discipline And Chaos is already a good and clear name, I guess.
  • July 19, 2013
    ryanasaurus0077
    • In The Dark Knight, both the good guys and the bad guys have examples. For the good guys, it's Jim Gordon, Harvey Dent, and the Batman. For the bad guys, it's Harvey Two-Face, the mob, and... you know.
  • July 25, 2013
    DAN004
    Indentation plz...
  • July 30, 2013
    Damr1990
    did some fixes on the Starcraft entry
  • August 6, 2013
    somerandomdude
    Guild Wars 2 has three orders who all take a different approach to fighting the Elder Dragons: the scholarly and wise Durmand Priory (Justice); the secretive, subterfuge-based Order of Whispers (Discipline); and the warlike, militaristic Vigil (Chaos).
  • August 6, 2013
    Tallens
    • Present in the races of World Of Warcraft.
      • The Alliance
        • The Draenei and humans fall under Justice, especially their respective orders of Paladins.
        • The sturdy Dwarves are some of the finest craftsmen in Azeroth, while the Night Elves stood watch for millenia with endless patience, and together they represent Discipline.
        • The game actually remarks that it's a wonder and Gnomes survive to reproduce with all their eccentricities and tendency to wreak havoc with their creations. The beastial Worgen, while they have learned to control their wild forms, still seem to exist only half in civilized society. Both races take to Chaos.
      • The Horde:
        • The militaristic Orcs embody Discipline.
        • The Tauren, devoted to the Earth Mother, and Blood Elves both serve their own forms of Justice.
        • The Forsaken, who have a reputation for being underhanded and treacherous, Goblins, only joined the Horde because there was profit in it, and Trolls, who...yeah, are all very much of Chaos.
      • The Pandaren can be of either faction, but their whole culture favors Discipline.
  • August 18, 2013
    DAN004
  • August 23, 2013
    Snicka
    I would debate that Blood Elves represent Justice in World Of Warcraft; they are more Chaos, who often go beyond moral to satisfy their hunger for magic.
  • August 23, 2013
    Tallens
    They may have started off that way, but they've moved away from it some. They could have some of both.
  • September 1, 2013
    Synchronicity
  • October 9, 2013
    AgProv
    Could it be that the three principal Allies of WW 2 fit this trope?
    • The USA: Justice (Fighting for an ideal of freedom and self-determination - somewhat idealistic)
    • Great Britain: Discipline (the elder statesman, a long-established heirarchical Empire)
    • the USSR: Chaos (only an Ally for as long as it suited it to be and pretty much a law unto itself - also fits the "Eastern Horde" image)
  • October 9, 2013
    DAN004
    Improve description plz. It needs something more than just explaining the 3 factions.
  • October 12, 2013
    Someoneman
    • The Shin Megami Tensei series usually end with you choosing to side with one alignment between Law (Discipline), Neutral (Justice), or Chaos (Self explanatory). Most of the time, expect the non-justice choices to suck big time for mankind.
  • October 14, 2013
    Bisected8
    ^^^ I think it might be best to avoid real life examples....

    • In Warhammer 40 K, there's;
      • Justice: The Tau, a coalition of races who believe in "the Greater Good". The Imperium might fit this, since it's based around following the Imperial Cult and worshipping The Emperor (or what's left of him).
      • Discipline: The Imperium might fit here instead (since it's basically a theocratic dictatorship). The Craftworld Eldar definitely fit here (maintaining discipline to avoid a repeat of the incident where they made a God Of Evil through pure decadence). The Necrons are the most extreme example, being a faction of ancient robots (or rather living beings which were bound to robotic bodies) who're basically The Terminator expies.
      • Chaos: Dark Eldar (Eldar who decided to try appeasing said God Of Evil through Cold Blooded Torture of captured slaves), The Orks (a race of violently insane green skinned football hooligans who are, in their own words "MADE FUR FIGHTIN' AN WINNIN'!"), the Tyranids (a Swarm Of Alien Locusts who exist only to infest and devour whole planets) and the forces of Chaos (various demons and cultists who are or are worshipping creatures from The Warp).
  • October 15, 2013
    Arivne
    Seconding No Real Life Examples Please, as the Chaos designation is somewhat insulting.
  • October 15, 2013
    sgamer82
    • Among the major superpowers in the Honor Harrington series:
      • The Star Kingdom of Manticore best fits Discipline, boasting the single most powerful naval force around and having the strongest naval tradition. Its officers generally fall under Good Is Not Soft, doing all they can to avoid unnecessary death but not being afraid to dish it out as needed.
      • The (People's) Republic of Haven would be Chaos, having gone through multiple regime changes and being the main antagonists for much of the series. Even their best government (the restored Republic under Eloise Pritchart) isn't afraid to be ruthless as needed.
      • The Solarian League represents (or once did at least) Justice. As the single largest power for centuries, they were typically cast as the enforcers of interstellar law. Though this has lessened by the present day due to centuries of corruption and arrogance on their part.
  • December 18, 2013
    DRCEQ
    • Fallout New Vegas gives us the New California Republic, Caesar's Legion, Mr. House, and The Courier himself.
      • The NCR and Mr. House represents Order.
        • The NCR military inhabits the Mojave Wasteland because the corrupt politicians of their government insist that they expand outward to acquire new resources. The Hoover Dam in particular is the main reason why they're there. Despite that, the soldiers of the NCR military are generally concerned about the safety and well being of the locals, even if they know that their own government doesn't realize they're expanding their resources thin. Their presence brings order to the Mojave Wasteland. The locals are a little displeased about their presence, but they cannot deny that they're better off with them instead of Caesar's Legion.
        • Mr. House is the "President, CEO, and sole proprietor" of the city of New Vegas. His ultimate goal is to secure New Vegas as an independent nation that neither the NCR or the Legion can touch. He's got an entire army of heavily armed and armored Securitron robots to back up his claim. The robots maintain order in the streets of New Vegas and make sure that no disruptive behavior happens between the three houses that run the casinos in the city, and the citizens and travelers visiting.
      • Caesar's Legion represents Discipline. An entire nation accurately modeled after Ancient Rome, Caesar himself ensures that his citizens are kept away from old-world technology, because he knows that forcing everyone to use the same level of technology ensures that everyone has to work the same amount in order to be efficient. Soldiers of the Legion are lucky if they are ever given a 2nd chance if they fail an assignment, because the penalty of death is always looming over them. Women are enslaved, literally being used as nothing more than work horses and breeding stock. The Legion knows what Discipline is. They're harsh, and extremely cruel, but they're efficient.
      • The Courier represents Chaos... if you so choose. The Wild Card series of quests has the Courier securing New Vegas, the Hoover Dam, and everything else in the Mojave Wasteland for yourself. Depending on the outcome of the various settlements and factions that you interact with, you can turn the whole Mojave into a general paradise, or reduce everything to complete chaos.
  • January 11, 2014
    synchronicity
    In a Freudian Trio, the Chaos would most probably be the Id, the Discipline the Superego, and the Justice the Ego.
  • January 11, 2014
    acrobox
    • Fire Emblem Tellius both the Beorc nations and the Laguz tribes have this dynamic.
      • Beorc Nations
        • Crimea: Justice, their ruling house is known for wanting to build bridges with the Laguz and common people are typically easygoing. This is also the home country of the heroes the Greil Mercenaries and their Princess and friend Elincia who they rescue and help restore to the throne.
        • Begnion: Discipline. Noted for their heavily structred society and caste system. As opposed to Crimea who leads fro mthe heart, the Begnion nobles are noted for their deception and long winded conspiracies to get what they want. The ruling class sees themselves as the Goddesses elite, and become the Diciples of Order in the climax.
        • Daein: Chaos. Led by the Mad King Ashnard, Daeins tactics were designed to throw the world into chaos by attacking and conquering Crimea unprovoked. Even after Ashnard is dthroned, Pelleas and Micaiah's reign is marked by their unorthodox and savage tactics.
      • Laguz Tribes
        • Beast Tribe: Justice. Guided by the honorable king Caineighis, like the Criemans they seek to end racial hostilities across the continent. They believe foremost in strength and courage, and tend to stand on the right side of history.
        • Dragon Tribe: Discipline. They are isolationists who believe that all conflict will incite the end of an era and the awakening of the Dark God. They also discipline themselves into having stoic personalities, because once they get going in battle they can easily become berserkers. When the Goddess awakens they too become Disciples of Order as they await their final judgement.
        • Bird Tribe: Chaos. Winged pirates in the southern seas. The crows especially are known to be untrustworthy, not above sacrificing their own childhood friends for their ideals. The Hawks less so, but they revel in the chaotic energies unleashed over the course of the series. The Herons who used to be between Justice and Discipline were subject to genocide. The survivors all become more chaotic to cope in the new world. The Big Bad is also a disenfranchised heron who wanted to completely destroy the world.
  • January 18, 2014
    Az_Tech341
  • January 18, 2014
    Az_Tech341
    Men, Dwarves, and Orcs? (sorry, I didn't think to add this reply to the first one - won't happen again.)
  • January 18, 2014
    Synchronicity
    ^ You can edit your reply by pressing the little pencil button off to the side. Also, those two as a trope name, or an example? Because they'd make a pretty crappy trope name (people would think it's about High Fantasy or something). If it's an example, always make sure to add context.
  • January 18, 2014
    KingZeal
    • In Bleach, there are three spiritual types of beings: Shinigami, Quincy and Hollow. Shinigami, according to their Commander, are the guardians of balance and spiritual justice as decreed by the Soul King. Word Of God states that the Quincy are symbolic of pure logic and cold pragmatism and obey the orders of their King without question. Hollow are Always Chaotic Evil carnivores that only respect power. Their "King" is simply whoever's strongest at the time, which means that a Klingon Promotion is extremely common.
  • January 21, 2014
    Az_Tech341
    @ Synchronicity Yes, as a trope name. I understand that people would be confused, but then maybe we aren't describing armies or nations anymore: maybe we're describing vantage points of certain characters - of a single character or entire groups of characters. If that's true, then we need to change the description a bit.

    How about this? The Noble, the Strong, and the Chaotic?
  • January 21, 2014
    KingZeal
    That's worse than what we have now.

    "Justice" and "Discipline" are easier to objectively trope than "Noble" and "Strong".
  • January 21, 2014
    Az_Tech341
    In your opinion.

    So then The Just, the Strong, and the Chaotic?
  • January 21, 2014
    KingZeal
    1. Adding "the" to each just makes the title longer.
    2. Define "strong".
  • January 21, 2014
    DAN004
    Just to confirm myself: I see the trope as Neutral Good, Lawful Neutral and Chaotic... something (often neutral or evil, though rarely good).

    Am I right?
  • January 25, 2014
    Synchronicity
    ^^^^^ Yikes, no, that would give this a gross case of Trope Namer Syndrome — people need familiarity with whatever the source material is in order to get an idea of what the trope's all about.

    ^Depends on the work and how each government is played, I suppose.

    At this point, maybe Government Trio would work as a name (in the vein of Power Trio et al) with the roles just elaborated upon in the description.
  • January 25, 2014
    DAN004
    ^ Does it have to involve governments? Kinda think that this can work on individual levels (though I bet that it would be rare)
  • January 25, 2014
    zarpaulus
    ^ Not even necessarily governments, it works with factions of any type.
  • January 26, 2014
    Synchronicity
    Faction Governance Trio? That's a mouthful.
  • January 26, 2014
    m8e
    But this isn't any trio of factions/nations/armies/whatever. It's a trio where one claims to be good(true or not), one that's lawful, and one that's chaotic.
  • January 31, 2014
    CosmeF
    The three main factions in One Piece certainly fit the description: the Marines, the Revolutionaries and the Yonko/Pirates.

    Marines are disciplined, they obey and enforce the law in the countries affiliated to the World Government. They serve a government corrupt and decadent, but they still mantain the peace in most of the world in the middle of the Pirate Age.

    The Revolutionaries are the just, they want to overthrow the oppresive World Government to put an end to the atrocities commited by the World Nobles, but every country they free from the Nobles gets tangled in their war.

    The Yonko are the most powerful pirates, they control the New World, which is mostly outside the Marines' influence. They (more or less) protect the countries under their power from being constantly ravaged by pirates, but they can be as well tyrants or heroes, and they fight each other (and the constant waves of new pirates that want to overthrow them) all the time.
  • February 9, 2014
    Megacles
    Runescape has many factions, some of which fit this trope. Both Saradomin and Armadyl could be considered Justice. Saradomin could also be considered Discipline, but Zaros embodies that trope the best. The main teaching of Zaros is to control yourself and those below you, and defer to those above you. In fact, just being loyal to Zaros was the only known teaching that he had for years. Zamorak, naturally, is Chaos, with the most diverse armies in terms of many species and ideologies.
  • February 9, 2014
    DAN004
    Add newer examples plz.
  • June 29, 2014
    MercenX
    This perfectly describes the three factions in my current work. One group, born of darkness, does not operate by typical rules; the Knights Templar are the disciplined group going so far as to practically be a hive mind; and the church would match the justice aspect as they only want happiness and freedom no matter who they have to ally with to get it.

    I later found out this is also exemplified by the manga Trinity Blood.
  • June 29, 2014
    ryanasaurus0077
    Would the aforementioned example from The Dark Knight count?
  • June 30, 2014
    TheHandle
    Bump.
  • October 14, 2014
    DAN004
    Bump, just in case.

    Who wanna take this over before I do?
  • November 3, 2014
    DAN004
    pmub
  • November 14, 2014
    Prime_of_Perfection
    Would the Fallout: New Vegas example really work? Neither House or the NCR relate to Justice at all. It was put down as "Order", which is just another way to say Discipline. In the end, the story is about picking between 3 possible forms of Discipline or going Chaotic. There is no Just balance.
  • November 14, 2014
    DAN004
    ^ no it wouldn't.
  • November 14, 2014
    DAN004
    ^ no it wouldn't.

Three days must pass before this YKTTW is Launchworthy or Discardable

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=mtozm15bs7yolkvwki4vya78