Justice, Discipline, And Chaos YKTTW Discussion

Justice, Discipline, And Chaos
A PowerTrio of nations or armies or any other organization
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(permanent link) added: 2012-02-08 20:16:12 sponsor: Ambar edited by: DAN004 (last reply: 2015-01-01 15:33:12)

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A variant of Shades of Conflict that depicts 3 major factions in the story as either "the right", "the orderly" and "the chaotic".

  • Justice can take many forms depending on the setting, but what all of them have in common is claiming some sort of righteousness. They may claim to represent the will of the people, or they may claim a mission from God, or descent from an ancient king, or the moral high ground of working hard and being nice to everyone. In more cynical settings, this righteousness may be a facade. In war, Justice's soldiers will be inspired by their cause, and in peace, Justice's policies will be in line with whatever cause they claim. Justice usually either is or pretends to be Neutral Good or Lawful Good.

  • Discipline believes in good organization and discipline. In the army, Discipline's soldiers will be well-trained and taught to obey orders quickly and efficiently. Domestically, Discipline's nation will have an organized bureaucracy that enforces its laws and builds up infrastructure, in assorted cases improving it's citizens' lives in the process. Alignment-wise, Discipline is strongly Lawful and either Good, Neutral or Evil, depending on the nation's general role in the story.

  • Chaos is defined by being ruthless, unpredictable, and otherwise not bound by what is "usual" or "conventional". In assorted stories, they will be a "rogue state" who refuses not just to be conquered but also is disinclined to take part in alliances with other powers, and if they survive, it's because they're strong enough or ruthless enough to take on everyone else. While they don't have a monopoly on superweapons, if only one of the three armies develops a superpowerful weapon - or super-soldier - that one will be Chaos, due to its lack of emphasis on "teamwork", and often enough Chaos survives because its leader is exactly that super soldier. As one can imagine, Chaos is Chaotic in alignment, and either Good, Neutral or Evil depending on their role in the story.

In a Freudian Trio, the Chaos would most probably be the Id, the Discipline the Superego, and the Justice the Ego.

Often involves Balance of Power. See also Rule of Three, Foil (Which can go for any of the factions towards another faction), Morality Kitchen Sink and Order vs Chaos. Compare The Good, the Bad, and the Evil.


Anime and Manga
  • From Magi Labyrinth of Magic:
    • Sindria, the "City of Dreams," as Justice. It's governed by The Good King (for the most part) Sinbad, who states he built it to give a home to anyone who had none, and his loyal Eight Generals. After reinstating reforms, Alibaba seems to be working on making Balbadd this, too.
    • The Reim Empire, being a Fantasy Counterpart Culture of Ancient Rome, is unsurprisingly Discipline; with incredibly structured soldiers and using science and chemistry to improve both their fighting and the citizens' lives.
    • The militaristic, ruthless Kou Empire (a Fantasy Counterpart Culture of China) as Chaos, which is fond of aggressively invading neighboring countries, putting other countries in their debt by linking their currencies and then leaving it to highly fluctuate, and has ties to Al-Thamen, the organization devoted to spreading chaos.
  • The Three Kings in YuYu Hakusho. Zero-Context Example
  • In Bleach, there are three spiritual types of beings: Shinigami, Quincy and Hollow. Shinigami, according to their Commander, are the guardians of balance and spiritual justice as decreed by the Soul King. Word of God states that the Quincy are symbolic of pure logic and cold pragmatism and obey the orders of their King without question. Hollow are Always Chaotic Evil carnivores that only respect power. Their "King" is simply whoever's strongest at the time, which means that a Klingon Promotion is extremely common.
  • The three main factions in One Piece:
    • Marines are disciplined, they obey and enforce the law in the countries affiliated to the World Government. They serve a government corrupt and decadent, but they still mantain the peace in most of the world in the middle of the Pirate Age.
    • The Revolutionaries are the just, they want to overthrow the oppresive World Government to put an end to the atrocities committed by the World Nobles, but every country they free from the Nobles gets tangled in their war.
    • The pirates are the chaotic, for simply being what they are: plundering gangsters who are a terror to the civilians. The Yonko (Four Emperors) in particular are 4 most powerful pirates, they control the New World, which is mostly outside the Marines' influence. They (more or less) protect the countries under their power from being constantly ravaged by pirates, but they can be as well tyrants or heroes, and they fight each other (and the constant waves of new pirates that want to overthrow them) all the time.

Fan Fics
  • In Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality there is the Dragon army, led by Draco Malfoy, which imitates the tactics of professional armies. The Chaos legion, led by Harry Potter, orders his solders to disobey all orders if they think it's a good idea (unless prefixed by "Merlin Says", which that order was not), and always tries to one-up the other two armies in raw power. The Sunshine regiment, led by Hermione Granger, paints themselves as the "good students" who can do anything if they study hard enough, and often do.

  • From A Song of Ice and Fire:
    • Justice: The Starks and the Northmen, who as a whole tend to be idealistic and honorable have deep senses of moral integrity and loyalty (with a few exceptions). Renly and Daenerys also saw themselves as leaders of Justice factions, but Renly dies before he can achieve anything and Daenerys's methods are closer to Discipline.
    • Discipline: The Lannisters and the South, exemplified by their ruthless, militaristic leaders (such as Tywin Lannister) and their propensity for brutally dealing with anyone who gets in their way. As noted above, Daenerys is sliding into this territory.
    • Chaos: The wildlings beyond the wall (even after Stannis falls in with them) are chaotic in their methods, if not their success rate. House Greyjoy as well, despite their brief rule.
  • Among the major superpowers in the Honor Harrington series:
    • The Star Kingdom of Manticore best fits Discipline, boasting the single most powerful naval force around and having the strongest naval tradition. Its officers generally fall under Good Is Not Soft, doing all they can to avoid unnecessary death but not being afraid to dish it out as needed.
    • The (People's) Republic of Haven would be Chaos, having gone through multiple regime changes and being the main antagonists for much of the series. Even their best government (the restored Republic under Eloise Pritchart) isn't afraid to be ruthless as needed.
    • The Solarian League represents (or once did at least) Justice. As the single largest power for centuries, they were typically cast as the enforcers of interstellar law. Though this has lessened by the present day due to centuries of corruption and arrogance on their part.

Tabletop RPG
  • Warhammer Fantasy has
  • In Warhammer 40K, there's;
    • Justice: The Tau, a coalition of races who believe in "the Greater Good". The Imperium might fit this, since it's based around following the Imperial Cult and worshipping The Emperor (or what's left of him).
    • Discipline: The Imperium might fit here instead (since it's basically a theocratic dictatorship). The Craftworld Eldar definitely fit here (maintaining discipline to avoid a repeat of the incident where they made a God of Evil through pure decadence). The Necrons are the most extreme example, being a faction of ancient robots (or rather living beings which were bound to robotic bodies) who're basically The Terminator expies.
    • Chaos: Dark Eldar (Eldar who decided to try appeasing said God of Evil through Cold-Blooded Torture of captured slaves), The Orks (a race of violently insane green skinned football hooligans who are, in their own words "MADE FUR FIGHTIN' AN WINNIN'!"), the Tyranids (a Swarm Of Alien Locusts who exist only to infest and devour whole planets) and the forces of Chaos (various demons and cultists who are or are worshipping creatures from The Warp).

Video Games
  • Present in the races of World of Warcraft.
    • The Alliance
      • The Draenei and humans fall under Justice, especially their respective orders of Paladins.
      • The sturdy Dwarves are some of the finest craftsmen in Azeroth, while the Night Elves stood watch for millenia with endless patience, and together they represent Discipline.
      • The game actually remarks that it's a wonder and Gnomes survive to reproduce with all their eccentricities and tendency to wreak havoc with their creations. The beastial Worgen, while they have learned to control their wild forms, still seem to exist only half in civilized society. Both races take to Chaos.
    • The Horde:
      • The militaristic Orcs embody Discipline.
      • The Tauren, devoted to the Earth Mother, and Blood Elves both serve their own forms of Justice.
      • The Forsaken, who have a reputation for being underhanded and treacherous, Goblins, only joined the Horde because there was profit in it, and Trolls, who...yeah, are all very much of Chaos.
    • The Pandaren can be of either faction, but their whole culture favors Discipline.
  • Each of the three races in StarCraft have factions that fit the trio.
    • Terrans:
      • As a race they don't have a proper Hat due its long history of conflict, but there are still many of them who would simply want a good place to live
      • Raynor's Raiders and the Sons of Korhal before Arcturus Mengsk became Emperor andjust as corrupt as the confederacy are Justice Freedom Fighters and even within the Corrupt Confederacy many of the outer worlds were opposed to their practices.
      • The Confederacy, Arcturus Mengsk and the UED are Discipline, they focus on keeping the order on the planets under their jurisdiction, and the efficiency of their armies, but don't be surprised if any of them decide to pull a genocide or two
      Gerard Du Gall :Serve the Directorate. Serve Humanity. All other priorities are secondary to victory!
      • And Finaly, since there are so many faction in the Koprulu Sector at some point incluiding Mengsk Group, the "Sons of Korhal" , there are many examples of chaos, ragtag armies, psychopats, mercenaries and a big ammount of dangerous individuals, to the point the Dicipline groups draw from the "resocialized" prisioners and still have plenty left to keep fighting
      Arcturus Mengsk You'll regret that. You don't seem to realize my situation here. I will not be stopped. Not by you, or the Confederates, or the Protoss, or anyone. I will rule this sector or see it burnt to ashes around me! If you try to get in my way...

    • Zerg
      • as a whole is seen like chaos by the other factions, a Horde of Alien Locusts with no other objetive but to devour everything that comes across their sight
      • The Overmind [[YMMV depending of your point of view]] and considering it's unique moral code, only wants the best for his own race, making them evolve until they become the Ultimate Species(so it may see itself as Justice), if it has to slaughter and assimilate any other form of life to do it,well, so be it
      Zerg Overmind: My children, the hour of our victory is at hand. For upon this world of Aiur shall we incorporate the strongest known species into our fold. Then shall we be the greatest of creation's children. We shall be... Perfect.

      • The Cerebrates are Zerg Commanders (and Discipline Here), Always loyal to the overmind,keeping the broods under control, and planning all their attack Strategies(and yes, Zerg Rush and We Have Reserves also count as strategies)
      • after the first Overmind's Death, Kerrigan, The Queen of Blades would be Chaos, ruthless, scheming, Unffettered and with Chronic Backstabbing Disorder, she'll stop to nothing on her quest of power and domination.
    You see at this point, I'm pretty much the Queen Bitch of the Universe, and not all of your little soldiers or space ships will stand in my way again.

    • Protoss
      • The Race as a whole is a Proud Warrior Dogmatic Race, with a strict code of conduct(maybe a little too strict), and well versed on the art of war,and Relatively Good Guys(just don't give them a reason to kill you, like accidentally getting your planet infected by the Zerg) so in general they count as discipline, however, they are not inmune to Internal Struggles
      • The Conclave is the Ruling elite, responsable their religion, culture and traditions, as well as a very strict cast system and a strong military
      • The Conclave sees the Nerazim (Dark Templar) as Chaotic Heretics who rejected the Khala, while the Nerazim consider the conclave to be foolish tyrants with delussions of power and screwed priorities, also seem the Khala link as a treat to their individuality(note that despide being exiled, the Nerazim still have a lot in common with the rest of the protoss tribes, and want to be back to their homeworld someday)
      • Also Tassadar, and all the Protoss who followed him (including the player, and Artanis, who eventually became the next leader after the conclave's downfall) are more Justice, wanting to reunite all the (surviving) tribes, rebuild Aiur, and even have some good relationships with individuals of other species(Like Raynor's Raiders)
  • Fallout: New Vegas gives us the New California Republic, Caesar's Legion, Mr. House, and The Courier himself.
    • The NCR and Mr. House represents Order.
      • The NCR military inhabits the Mojave Wasteland because the corrupt politicians of their government insist that they expand outward to acquire new resources. The Hoover Dam in particular is the main reason why they're there. Despite that, the soldiers of the NCR military are generally concerned about the safety and well being of the locals, even if they know that their own government doesn't realize they're expanding their resources thin. Their presence brings order to the Mojave Wasteland. The locals are a little displeased about their presence, but they cannot deny that they're better off with them instead of Caesar's Legion.
      • Mr. House is the "President, CEO, and sole proprietor" of the city of New Vegas. His ultimate goal is to secure New Vegas as an independent nation that neither the NCR or the Legion can touch. He's got an entire army of heavily armed and armored Securitron robots to back up his claim. The robots maintain order in the streets of New Vegas and make sure that no disruptive behavior happens between the three houses that run the casinos in the city, and the citizens and travelers visiting.
    • Caesar's Legion represents Discipline. An entire nation accurately modeled after Ancient Rome, Caesar himself ensures that his citizens are kept away from old-world technology, because he knows that forcing everyone to use the same level of technology ensures that everyone has to work the same amount in order to be efficient. Soldiers of the Legion are lucky if they are ever given a 2nd chance if they fail an assignment, because the penalty of death is always looming over them. Women are enslaved, literally being used as nothing more than work horses and breeding stock. The Legion knows what Discipline is. They're harsh, and extremely cruel, but they're efficient.
    • The Courier represents Chaos... if you so choose. The Wild Card series of quests has the Courier securing New Vegas, the Hoover Dam, and everything else in the Mojave Wasteland for yourself. Depending on the outcome of the various settlements and factions that you interact with, you can turn the whole Mojave into a general paradise, or reduce everything to complete chaos.
  • Runescape has many factions, some of which fit this trope.
    • Both Saradomin and Armadyl could be considered Justice.
    • Saradomin could also be considered Discipline, but Zaros embodies that trope the best. The main teaching of Zaros is to control yourself and those below you, and defer to those above you. In fact, just being loyal to Zaros was the only known teaching that he had for years.
    • Zamorak, naturally, is Chaos, with the most diverse armies in terms of many species and ideologies.

Web Comics
  • Draconia Chronicles has Tigers as Justice, Dragons as Discipline, and Foxes as Chaotic, since one of their spies is playing the other two factions off each other.
  • The three major powers in Girl Genius are the Storm King (Justice), Baron Wulfenbach (Discipline), and the Heterodynes (Chaos). The Storm King is a legendary "good king" from ages past, and the current faction claims the legitimacy coming from descent from the Storm King and the backing of the "Fifty Families" (noble houses or something). Baron Wulfenbach, who is currently in power, keeps a tight control over his well-disciplined army and his bureaucracy, lets people alone as long as they do what he tells them, and is generally constructive in fixing up and improving cities he controls. The Heterodyne family has historically been a family of mad scientists who ruled from their invincible fortress Castle Heterodyne, and now Agatha is reclaiming their status as a "historically troublesome rogue state" who can't be conquered because of said invincible castle, and thus has no need for niceties or alliances with other powers.
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