Created By: Serocco on December 9, 2012 Last Edited By: SilverFang on March 26, 2013
Nuked

Borderline Monster

He's still an asshole, but at least he has one good thing about him, not that it helps his case.

Name Space:
Main
Page Type:
Trope
In order to be a Complete Monster, you need to lack any altruistic quality, on top of being truly heinous by the standards of the story.

The Borderline Monster, is what happens when you're every bit as heinous as a Complete Monster, but you have at least one good thing about you that keeps us from calling you Completely Monstrous.

The Borderline Monster has to have someone that they genuinely care about. They may Freak Out once that person's dead, they may refrain from harming that person or they may care enough to apologize to that person just before committing an atrocity. However, that one act of kindness, however little, doesn't excuse all the other times that you Kick the Dog, and the story makes sure to continue portraying you in a negative light otherwise.

If the Borderline Monster has a Morality Pet, that still won't mean the Borderline Monster won't cause harm to others anyway. If there's someone that the Borderline Monster does care for, the Borderline Monster still, evidently, doesn't care about them enough to help them, or tell them the truth about how cruel they really are to other people.
  • Richard Detmer in Chronicle, who's a physically and psychological Abusive Parent to his son, Andrew. His mistreatment of his son eventually drove Andrew into a Roaring Rampage of Revenge. Richard was genuinely saddened when his wife died, but he still blamed his son for her death, and moved over to punch him while he was still recovering from the hospital.
  • Bleach:
    • Nnoitra Gilga, who is bloodthirsty, had no problem attacking or killing his comrades, claims to be sexist, mass murdered many. However, he cared about his one fraccion-Tesla. The author labels Tesla as Nnoitra's "trusted confidant." When Tesla attacks Zaraki, Nnoitra thorws Orihime aside, and screams for him to run. Which is big considering Nnoitra doesn't back down from a fight, wants to die in battle, and thinks a warrior's death is honourable, and seems to hate weakness, but he wants his subordinate not to fight, and actively run. Kubo classifying in the databook that Nnoitra felt grief, when Tesla is cut down.
    • Yammy Llargo, who mass-murdered hundreds of civilians, brutalized both his enemies and his allies, and butchered a nurse who had just reattached his arm. He's never physically harmed his literal Morality Pet, but that doesn't stop him from mistreating it anyway (throwing stuff at it and yelling at it to leave his sight).
    • Shukuro Tsukishima, whose main power is Retconjuration, where he inserts himself into peoples' memory. He achieves this by stabbing people with his sword. He uses it on all of Ichigo's friends, including his pre-teen sisters, specifically to screw with Ichigo's head. With Sado and Inoue, he takes it a step further, by replacing the memory of Inoue's brother and Sado's grandfather with himself. When they start fighting his control, instead of just bringing them back under his influence, Tsukishima sends conflicting memories that mentally and physically tortured them. When called out on it by Ginjo, Tsukishima's response is a polite smile oozing with sadism, and it's implied that Tsukishima's deliberately broken other people for his amusement. His loyalty to Ginjo (evidenced by Tsukishima's Freak Out once Ginjo died) is just about his only good quality, and it does noting to excuse the torment he put Sado and Inoue through, as well as Ichigo to an extent.
  • Goblins:
Community Feedback Replies: 22
  • December 9, 2012
    SeptimusHeap
    Basically 99% Monster?
  • December 9, 2012
    Serocco
    Basically, yeah. Complete Monster is overused by people who keep forgetting that a Complete Monster literally has no good qualities alongside their atrocities.

    However, since we have stuff like Retired Monster and Reluctant Monster, I figured to make a trope for that halfway mark between Jerk Ass and Complete Monster.
  • December 9, 2012
    EarlOfSandvich
    Just one question (and yes, I believe it is a good idea to minimize any future abuse of the Complete Monster trope): Would it have to follow the same rules as CM in most respects (like including actual onscreen villainy for instance)?
  • December 9, 2012
    Astaroth
  • December 9, 2012
    Serocco
    In the future, we can also turn Complete Monster into an objective trope, if we launch Borderline Monster.

    Yes, a Borderline Monster as to follow the same rules as CM. Onscreen villainy, heinous by the standards of the story, their Kick The Dog moments are played seriously, no regrets for their atrocities and so forth.
  • December 9, 2012
    AmbarSonofDeshar
    This isn't a trope. A character who is Pure Evil (one of the redirects for CM) is following one of the oldest tropes in the book. Conversely, this could just as easily be traslated as "really nasty villain". I appreciate the effort at getting rid of the worst examples from CM, but I don't think this is tropable.
  • December 9, 2012
    ArcadesSabboth
    This is unfortunately likely to attract a lot of misuse of its own. Even as a YMMV trope, it'll get a lot of "this person is so heinous, and their redeeming qualities only count as one in my book" stuff.
  • December 9, 2012
    SeptimusHeap
    ^^ Working a villain to be as evil as possible and then suddenly adding a redeeming quality is a trope.
  • December 9, 2012
    rodneyAnonymous
    This seems like it is just to catch the overflow of characters who don't qualify for CM? Sorry, no consolation prize.
  • December 9, 2012
    Serocco
    A villain who has one good trait, which still doesn't excuse their crimes, is tropable.

    We don't need to have it as YMMV, because we can avoid the misuse by directly specifying what constitutes a Borderline Monster. Through those guidelines, we can avoid catching the overflow of characters who don't qualify for CM.
  • December 9, 2012
    rodneyAnonymous
    Anyone besides the sponsor think this is a good idea?
  • December 9, 2012
    Serocco
    I guess Astaroth, who provided two examples, thinks so.
  • December 9, 2012
    AquaRegia
    There's such a massive, problematic emphasis on the "well, you have a redeeming feature, but you're still a horrible person anyway." It bears the exact same stigma as with the Complete Monster, but with less-defined specifications and greater accessibility, thus people will heavily use it as a backdoor entrance to the aforementioned trope. The long-run result of this is either that it will be prone to heavy abuse, or it will be on complete lock-down much like its sibling trope, which is just inefficient.
  • December 9, 2012
    Serocco
    I said that we can specify the guidelines, Aqua Regia.

    On a side note, Complete Monster should've defined its guidelines earlier in its existence, if you ask me.
  • December 9, 2012
    AquaRegia
    You did say that, but until I see these specifications, they may as well not exist; the current guidelines for the Complete Monster trope did take a good amount of time and debate to assemble, so this likely won't be a "boom, here's what we have to do" scenario.
  • December 9, 2012
    MetaFour
  • December 9, 2012
    Shaoken
    Yeah, no matter the intentions on this thing, it's just going to be used by people sore their character got cut from Complete Monster and basically just turn into a page like that. And considering the amount of work that goes into the cleanup thread for Complete Monster, I don't see anything of value here that would justify an even greater volume of work to keep it clean.

    I vote against this YKTTW.
  • December 9, 2012
    Serocco
    I posted the guidelines for it. It's a rough draft, but it tries to get the point across.

    If you're still unconvinced, then I have another suggestion: can we rearrange this YKTTW and turn it into one of those Verb The Dog kinda tropes (e.g. Pet The Dog, Kick The Dog, Bait The Dog)?
  • December 9, 2012
    SophiaLonesoul
    I think that this is likely just going to turn into a dumping ground for bad Complete Monster entries. Even if there are specific guidelines it is unlikely that they will be followed closely.
  • December 9, 2012
    Serocco
    Fine. I'll discard it.
  • December 10, 2012
    Voyd211
    Ferahgo the Assassin from Redwall, and Tarquin from The Order Of The Stick.
  • December 10, 2012
    VeryMelon
    I have to vote against this. It's intent is sound, but in practice it will just end up as a backdoor to allow bad Complete Monster examples like Ghetsis in the wiki.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=8pzbrx10se9xgfibwtvxhiuj&trope=DiscardedYKTTW