Created By: flebSeptember 27, 2008
Nuked

List of Tropes Whose Names Are Characters'

Name Space:
Main
Page Type:
Trope
Community Feedback Replies: 37
  • September 27, 2008
    Kuciwalker
    You missed The Obi Wan - not that that will ever get renamed.
  • September 27, 2008
    Known Unknown
    The Purge? Although I fear the answer, what's that going to be now?
  • September 27, 2008
    pawsplay
    I hope no one is planning to purge all character named tropes. I will storm the gates in protest.
  • September 27, 2008
    EtherealMutation
    I've come to the conclusion that a majority of these types of titles are just in-jokes made by whoever got to writing the article first without really thinking about whether or not it makes sense without context. For example, Comics Code, of all things, used to be the "trope namer" that was renamed to Censorship Bureau. It was also a pretty blatant, self-indulgent attempt to just further the Take That against the CCA (half of the article was just animosity dedicated towards the Comics Code) that completely ignored both the obscurity of the CCA (no, most people don't know jack about 1970s and earlier comics) and the unintuitive nature of it.

    Anyway, it's something for a case by case examination. Most of them probably should be renamed, though. In-jokes only make the site more inaccessible. Personally, I think the only "trope namers" that don't draw from an already widespread term should either give an idea right in the title what it's about or draw from an incredibly popular source (as in... Star Wars or The Simpsons level popular, not naming something after an obscure Martian Successor Nadesico character).
  • September 27, 2008
    Unknown Troper
    Mary Sue? Also needs subtropes of the pages, in my opinion.
  • September 27, 2008
    Unknown Troper
    Things from well-known classic literature or classical myth aren't really on the same level as references to {{24}}. Saying that The Cassandra should go is absurd; there's also no real reason to ditch The Ishmael. Fairy tales, too. Come on, Puss In Boots?

    Similarly, Star Wars and Star Trek are ingrained enough in public consciousness that The Obi Wan and The Spock don't really need to go, I think. With the others it starts getting a bit murkier. But I don't see any reason why all character-named tropes have to go.

  • September 27, 2008
    StarBright
    Me neither. I think it's a really arbitrary reason to rename that many tropes. But I do think character-named tropes need their own index. To that end, I would add Cheryl Blossom, Agent Mulder and Agent Scully to the list.
  • September 27, 2008
    Scrounge
    The Bumblebee and The Starscream also go on the list. As for the proposed culling? Frankly, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
  • September 27, 2008
    Known Unknown
    Seconded not fixing what ain't broke.
  • September 28, 2008
    Kilyle
    Well... I would say, before any renaming be done, a lot of thought should be put into it.

    I do have trouble with a few of these. The Ruri doesn't speak to me the way The Niles does, but that's only because I'm not as familiar with the source material... and I know I should have read To Kill A Mockingbird, but The Boo Radley is about the same level of obscure for me. I don't know that that's necessarily bad. If any trope is named after a character who most completely encapsulates the essence of the trope, I say leave it. Niles is a perfectly good example of his trope, after all, something you can point to. "What does this trope mean?" "Go watch Frasier." Kinda thing.
  • September 28, 2008
    Scorus
    In defense of Boo, I don't think it's unfair to suggest that To Kill A Mockingbird is rather more important and well-known than Frasier, and The Boo Radley makes perfect sense to me and The Niles is meaningless. I think I agree that Named trope names should really not be obscure because it renders the title, well, useless.
  • September 28, 2008
    Unknown Troper
  • September 28, 2008
    Unknown Troper

    I'd count Xanatos Gambit, but I'm not sure if it just has to be the name itself.
  • September 28, 2008
    foxley

    But I'm generally in favour of keeping the name if its an accurate representation of the trope. I can't think of a succinct replacement for The Red Sonja.
  • September 28, 2008
    VampireBuddha
    How is this worth splitting from Trope Namers?
  • September 28, 2008
    StarBright
    Trope Namers covers where the name of ANY trope comes from, and it's organized by medium and series. Tropes named for specific characters are mixed in there, but I think we've just proved it's a large enough and specific enough category to merit a separate index.
  • September 28, 2008
    Sackett
    Also note that Pollyanna had a huge impact when it was released and use of the term is so widespread that it is actually in most dictionaries as a term for anyone who is always upbeat and optimistic.
  • September 28, 2008
    BobbyG
    Mary Sue is also a generic term nowadays.
  • September 28, 2008
    623
    The Baldrick, too (Blackadder isn't quite the cultural institution that Star Trek is, but...).

    Scorus: I don't think Kilye is saying that The Boo Radley should be renamed or that To Kill a Mockingbird is obscure, just that it doesn't speak as personally and obviously to her (or him) in particular as The Niles does (incidentally, this wiki's population of Frasier fans does exist beyond just me. Woohoo!). So, in other words, many of these tropes, aside from the really universal ones, are going to be subjective and relative depending on one person's experience and taste. Which I don't think is a bad thing, really, but others may disagree.
  • October 5, 2008
    fleb
    Yeah, Mary Sue wouldn't count. I didn't even realize Pollyanna had traction outside of the wiki too.
  • October 5, 2008
    Unknown Troper
    Where's The Mario?
  • October 5, 2008
    skyblade
    I think a few things to keep in mind are 1) How big/influencial is the work 2) How prominent is a character in that work, and 3) Does the name evoke an impression well? I think the last is very important, and a big reason why it's not very good to use anime names. Sabrina the Teenage Witch may not have been the biggest show in the world (Though it had a respectable run), but "The Libby" sounds like it'd be the name of a snobby airhead. Conversely, as big as "Lord of the Rings" is, "Aragorn" doesn't phoenitically conjure up "King Second Banana". (Probably because the guy goes by several different names, and the public probably just knows him as "The King")
  • October 5, 2008
    Clerval
    The Ophelia! (*pimps*)
  • October 6, 2008
    fleb
    Oh yeah: The Chazz, which should either be The Chaz for accuracy or renamed completely. Then there's The Psycho Rangers, which is a group so it might not count.

    This index needs a name. The Character Name, The The, The Index?
  • October 6, 2008
    Fulltimedefendent
    Can we call it Name This Trope?
  • October 6, 2008
    WilliamWideWeb
    Somebody needs to change Jonas Quinn to The Jonas Quinn.
  • October 7, 2008
    Unknown Troper
    You forgot Inspector Javert!
  • October 7, 2008
    Wristmilk
    I feel this entire conversation has merit, but in essence it is simply reenforcing the idea that a trope needs to be well defined AC:and its name needs to be equally well defined to accomidate readers unfamiliar with the source... names of characters are no different than names of concepts. To me, the name Mac Guffin held no meaning until after i read it and understood it from the point of view of that tropes explaining editor. Almost all tropes explenations are initially subjective, and are honed by explanation and context and examples until they are clear. The name itself isn't completely relevent due to the large diversity of readers and their experiences, and even Star Wars can be missed by some in their experiences, so you can't take anything for granted. All this said, I fail to see the value of renaming tropes based on the logic of it needing to be universally understood. Come close to it, but it can't be attained. Just find a name that best exemplifies the concept... isn't YKTTW intended specifically to find this common point?
  • October 7, 2008
    SomeSortOfTroper
    The Toblerone? Is that really a name or is it just the nickname given to a character that mocks his name by comparing it to a brand of nougat and almond filled chocolate?
  • October 7, 2008
    Fulltimedefendent
    It came from the character's actual name being oddly pronounced. Mike and the Bots dubbed him "Toblerone"- that was the closest pronunciation they could handle. Nothing to do with the chocolate, Just Like It Says On The Page.
  • October 7, 2008
    Pig_catapult
    @Wristmilk: "Mac Guffin" is, from what I understand, already accepted literary jargon, so it's a little different than what we're dealing with here.

    @Discussion: The main problem I'm seeing with the "The [Name]" tropes is that, if you aren't already at least passingly familiar with the character and/or franchise in question, there's nothing in the trope title that even gives a vague hint at what it's about, so you have to click on it to find out. Sometimes, the name is so generic that it's not even necessarily clear which of many characters (from as many series) with the same name it might be.

    Examples to appease my obsessive-compulsiveness for exacting detail and unnecessarily long and wordy explanations:

    (note that when I say that something is "a good one" or "a bad one" here, I mean that in regards to the trope being named after that character as opposed to being given some other name. Tropes Are Not Bad.)

    Xanatos Gambit: An example of a good name for a trope. You might not know who Xanatos is, but the trope tends to naturally crop up in places where one can still usually glean a vague idea of what it means from both the context and the word "gambit" itself, which has a meaning in everyday use.

    The Kimberly is an example of a bad one, because Kimberly isn't a unique or iconic name. There's lots of people out there named Kimberly, and there's really nothing intuitive about it. It needs a better name.

    Mickey Mousing is a really bad one. It is named for a well-known character, but it doesn't actually have anything to do with him, aside from the fact that Mickey Mouse was in some works where the trope was used. There's no intuitive association that would make Mickey Mouse iconic of the trope. This trope REALLY needs a better name.

    The Kirk is an okay/so-so example. Most people will recognized the name "Kirk" as being the one of Star Trek fame, and he's particularly infamous for what the trope describes, and there's really no good way to compress that trope into a short, serviceable Trope Name that people will remember. If you don't know who Kirk is, you need to lurk moar.

    The Scrappy and The Libby are also okay ones, since (as mentioned above), while you might not know the characters, the names sound descriptive of their tropes, and context easily completes the picture.

    In closing, trope names should be intuitive. If possible, there should be a non-character, non-article word or words in the Trope Name to describe the general sphere the trope falls into (e.g., "Xanatos Gambit"), or the trope should be renamed to something that actually describes it.
  • October 7, 2008
    DarkSasami
    Mickey Mousing is an industry term.
  • October 8, 2008
    Pig_catapult
    Ah. I did not know that. But my other points still stand.
  • October 8, 2008
    CountSpatula
    There's also Encyclopedia Browned and (arguably) Bugs Meany Is Gonna Walk.
  • October 8, 2008
    foxley
    Is this proposed index supposed to be a list of tropes that are a characters name, or any trope that includes a character name? Becuase that second one would be much longer.
  • October 11, 2008
    fleb
    The first thing. So Mickey Mousing is doubly-disqualified.
  • October 11, 2008
    arks
    Perdita X Dream: Or is that also pushing it too much?

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