Line #43 Headscratchers/Hook


1	* How far away was Rufio when he threw the coconut at Peter? It was traveling fast enough to have no discernible arc, yet - ''after it was thrown,'' there was time for A) a boy to notice it was thrown and yell a warning, B) another boy to grab a sword and toss it to Peter, and C) Peter to execute a 360-degree spinning attack to chop it in half. A hail-Mary 50-yard football pass doesn't take that long to reach its target. Does Peter have magical time-dilation powers?
2	** Your issue is with physics in a movie about people who can fly by thinking happy thoughts.
3	** The coconut was imaginary, so Peter simply imagined it moving slowly enough for him to bisect it?
4	* Where do ''pirates'' come from? Hook remarks during his suicide scene that he's been killing Lost Boys and Indians for most of his life, and Rufio mentions that Lost Boys kill pirates. Neverland Indians can reproduce in the wild (see: Tiger Lily) and new Lost Boys "fall out of their prams" and/or are brought to Neverland by fairies. But actual, cutlass-swinging pirates? How is their population replenished? They can't be actual sailors washed out to sea, as they probably wouldn't be keen on the retro-pirate lifestyle and would have heard the story of Peter Pan and realize where they were.
5	** Lost Boys who grow up and forget, perhaps?
6	** I always thought they were the personifications of bad fathers.
7	** That or, being the resident adults, they make more pirates the old-fashioned way.. with every saucy wench in every port.
8	*** But if they do that, shouldn't there be a large non-pirate population of normal humans, which would sort of defeat the purpose of Neverland? For that matter, who do the pirates actually pirate from - is there actually any maritime shipping in Neverland?
9	** They come from pirate ships that get lost out on the open sea, obviously.
10	*** Personifications of bad fathers/lost at sea pirates is probably as close to the truth as we're going to get. Makes the Wenches personifications of bad mothers though... Brrr.
11	** This is never addressed in any of the lore that I've read/watched but a several good answers come to mind. The first being that Neverland is magical, the idea that Lost Boys grow up to become Pirates after meeting some magical criteria comes to mind. The pirates could all be folks who got lost at sea, the question mentions people not being keen on being pirates but what options would a sailor who fell overboard have? Lost Boys kills pirates, the Indians aren't mentioned and the average person today wouldn't be able to duplicate 17th century technology from scratch much less anything modern so when Hook says "join the crew or walk the plank" most would. Finally it's entirely possible that Neverland is younger than we think because of the time discrepancy. In addition to (or perhaps instead of) it's clear in Hook that time travels differently in Neverland than in the real world. If deaths are rare and everybody is functionally immortal (at least from an outside perspective) we could be dealing with Pirates who've only been there decades not centuries and are all descended from a single ship or two.
12	** Perhaps pirates ARE Lost Boys. This is Neverland, the idea that the kids split up into two, possibly three teams to play Lost Boys vs Pirates vs Indians is no less absurd than you'd expect from an Island of children refusing to grow up and well within the magical feats Neverland should be capable of performing.
13	** Or it's not just the good guys who lose touch with their memories of life outside Neverland when they stay there very long. A modern sailor (modern pirate?) who gets lost at sea and somehow vanishes into Neverland might ''initially'' realize they're in a weird place full of anachronisms and characters out of an old novel, but within a few months they'd succumb to the setting and give up their guns and T-shirts for cutlasses and breeches.
14	** There is at least one, be it official or not, story somewhat unrelated to the movie Hook but telling of the original's past. It's the 'evil Peter Pan' story, where Peter would take children from their homes to play with them and then cast them away when they grew up. Or something to that nature, maybe it was that the children- Lost Boys- would run from Peter and grow up to be the pirates that hunt him for revenge. The most famous of which would be Hook. In that story Peter may have been the one who took his hand, but this troper can't recall.
15	* This Troper loves this movie to death, but there was one minor nitpick. Where are the Indians? I mean there was mention of them so they didn't go unnoticed. But you'd think in a movie like this, they'd be there to give Pan some sage like advice to Pan during his time of need. Or at the very least be BigDamnHeroes when Pirate Battling becomes too much for even the lost boys to handle.
16	** I imagine Hook hunted them all down and murdered them. He did so in the book and a bit in the Disney version. Without Peter and the bulk of the lost boys (who Wendy Lady found homes for) there, Hook had nothing to stop him, and a lot of anger to stab out.
17	*** There must have been some left, as Smee offers to go with Hook and hunt some of them.
18	** From a technical standpoint, they were probably scrubbed out to avoid lawsuits from Real Native Americans. Indigenous people have been getting more and more vocal over the years about their culture being portrayed as stock fantasy characters. To put it very lightly, they're offended at being portrayed as {{Noble Savage}}s and won't tolerate it anymore. Google Idle No More for an example.
19	*** Although, the Indians ''have'' appeared in the [[Film/PeterPan 2003 movie]], and were portrayed more realistically.
20	*** And even in that movie, we just see Tiger Lily and an older woman, with everyone else being in the background. In the early 90s they found it easier to simply cut them and avoid the backlash rather than include them and portray them differently.
21	* Peter is originally from England the same as his wife. It is stated in the dialogue that he was adopted by an American couple, but he was already nearly a teenager. Would he have realistically lost the English accent he would've spoken with during his time there? That was always a puzzler for me as Creator/RobinWilliams doesn't bother with a British accent.
22	** Considering he lost nearly all of his Pan-related memories, I would imagine he would just pick up the new accent as more of his old self slipped away.
23	** This could actually count as FridgeBrilliance. In the flashbacks, Peter still speaks with an American accent (look at the scene where he meets Moira). Since he left England as an infant, and was then raised by Tinkerbell (who, in this version, sounds like the very American Creator/JuliaRoberts), he would have picked up ''her'' accent instead.
24	* Continue an above question are the Pirates and Lost Boys really trying to kill each other or just playing an "extremely" rough game where they recognize that you might die? It comes to mind because most of the weapons the Lost Boys bring are humorous toys that at best should have distracted the pirates and several seem to use their food stuffs which are IMAGINARY and cannot effect anybody who doesn't believe. The pirates for their part don't seem to be using the guns that we know they have because they've been using them throughout the film. This goes as far as Hook who's enough more interested in his fight than the win that he allows the entire plot to play out instead of killing Pan in Act One.
25	* In the Flashback Wendy claims she can't go with Peter because she's forgotten how to fly. The story up to this point seems to imply that it's because she's simply gotten too old but that flies in the face of reminding Peter what it means to be the Pan and Toodles flying. Was she afraid this would be the time she decided not to come back or something since her stated reason simply doesn't hold up.
26	** When Wendy says that, she's implying that the original happy thoughts she used to fly are things which either no longer make her happy, or else she doesn't feel those things anymore. Maybe related to how she --later in the timeline-- admits to Peter that she was in love with him as a young woman, even still on her wedding day. It's not that she doesn't remember how to fly, it's that she's no longer in love with him.
27	*** Alternatively, maybe she never fell out of love with him. Over time, the memories associated with Peter and Neverland became less happy and more bittersweet as she realized that he was never going to love her back the way she wanted.
28	*** Going back to the second point. All the happy things in Wendy's life are probably dead by this point; Michael died in World War I, John may be dead (possibly having died in the SECOND war), Wendy could be a widow by this point; her children have moved out and she's merely a babysitter, the person she loved didn't love her back and let her - as she was a 1910s child - make a (possibly) arranged marriage in the 1920s that may not have truly made her happy. Peter returning for her all those times made some of this go away, but as an old woman, there isn't much she can do about it now. And, to make things worse, she hasn't seen her granddaughter and great-grandchildren in 10 years!
29	** Maybe there's also the fact that Wendy knows enough about how Neverland works and if she leaves, she might forget home and return too late, leaving her children and grandchildren alone. And there's probably a lot of sadness that she's now an older woman, and the man she loves is still a child. So maybe she did hold out hope for a while that Peter might reconsider and settle down with her while there was still a reasonable age difference between them. But that hope is officially gone and while she loves him, she knows she can't be with him and even if she did go with him, it would never be like it was.
30	* So, how's the growing-up logic in this movie? In Disney's ''Return to Neverland'', a grown-up Wendy remembered Peter as if she met him yesterday, but here in ''Hook'' Peter, Wendy and Tootles as grown-ups forgot they were lost boys and lived in Neverland as if their memories were erased.
31	** Wendy didn't forget her time in Neverland, she only forgotten her happy thoughts.
32	** Tootles obviously didn't forget either, people just thought he was crazy when he talked about it.
33	*** Almost as if they thought that he lost his marbles. Which he did, just in a literal sense.
34	** This movie follows more the books than the Disney movie for the most part.
35	* How is it not Winter when Peter returns? Did the FisherKing tendencies go to Rufio when he became "The Pan"?
36	** Yes?
37	* Who knows about Peter's past? Did Wendy tell Peter's adopted parents? Did Wendy tell her daughter? Does Moira know that her grandmother is ''the'' Wendy Moira Angela Darling?
38	** It's rather clear that Wendy was the only one who really knew. Wendy tells Maggie that she and her brothers "made up bedtime stories" about Neverland, and this is obviously the explanation everyone else has heard and accepted. In that sense, yes – Moira knew that her grandmother is the Wendy Moira Angela Darling in that they knew her to be the basis for Barrie's character. Her link to the Great Ormond Street Hospital (which in real life as well as in the film received the copyright for ''Peter Pan'' from Barrie as a donation) is explicit.
39	* During the baseball game organized by Captain Hook so he can sway Jack to his side, one pirate shoots another for stealing second, leading Hook to scold him because they are playing the game with the rules Jack knows. Why doesn't Jack get scared by the fact that a man is killed in front of him as if it were a normal thing that happens in a baseball game? Moreover, he later desists from joining Hook when he kills Rufio, but why didn't he desist when one pirate killed another in front of his eyes?
40	** The pirate was shot at a greater distance from Jack in a manner where Jack might be able to tell himself the man was just stunned and/or it was only a game, but Rufio was very clearly fatally wounded right in front of him.
41	* Understandably, when Tinker Bell somehow manages to bring the crocodile back to life (according to FridgeBrilliance), Hook gets scared and the crocodile ends up falling over him, devouring him in the process. However, if Hook was so scared of the crocodile, then why doesn't he just instinctively run away as far as he could so the crocodile would have just fallen to the ground and stayed there? He had plenty of time to do that, but instead he stayed where he was and started to get up as the crocodile fell on him.
42	** Hook had just been surrounded by clocks and then witnessed his greatest fear seemingly come back to life; it's safe to say he wasn't thinking rationally
43	* Why does Hook appear as a green mist during the abduction scene? Is he incapable of taking physical form outside of Neverland? We're shown he trashed the house, so he must have had some physical presence, but when the blankets are thrown off there's no human in sight. Similarly he's seemingly capable of generating strong gusts of wind (which he does when he interrupts the ceremony with Wendy) but that ability never comes up again once the movie moves on to Neverland, what gives?
44	* If Peter first arrived in Neverland as a baby (at least that's what the flashback indicates) shouldn't he have ''stayed'' a baby? Unless at some point he left Neverland long enough to age into a preteen and then returned.

Context Headscratchers / Hook