Line #128 Headscratchers/AvatarTheLastAirbenderTheFourNations


1	[[foldercontrol]]
2
3	[[folder: Air Nomads]]
4
5	!!Nomad resources
6	Where do they get food (if we're going by Aang a lot of them are vegetarians), clothes (which are produced after their fashions), materials for the gliders, scrolls, and all the other things we've seen them have? Can you live off the land (as ''nomad'') implies and get all of those?
7	* Their clothes probably come from the wool of Sky Bison. Aang mentioned that he traveled a lot in his youth (enough to have friends in both the Earth and Fire nations) so it's likely they did a lot of trading to get them.
8	* 'Nomad' might also be an ArtifactTitle. The temples do seem to indicate at least some of them have settled. Or perhaps the air bison herders are the "nomads" but their support network remains stationary.
9	* Yangchen's books mention there is a village at the base of her native Air Temple with an economy for resources and healing.
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11
12	!!Babies
13	Where do baby Air Nomads come from? You have the temples separated by gender, and if these are like temples in most traditions, the nuns and monks are celibate.
14	* Only young and elder Nomads stay at the temples and the rest travel between them - again, Aang did mention he traveled a lot. It's quite possible that air nomad romances happened on these travels.
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16
17	!!How did a bunch of nomads all die?
18	So, if most of the Air Nomads are, well ''nomadic'', then how was the Fire Nation able to kill ALL of them in a single series of attacks?
19	* It's not that difficult to post a few firebenders at the temples to mop up any survivors when they returned.
20	* WMG: Some ''did'' survive, but hid their airbending capabilities and blended into other societies.
21	The Guru Pathik is an Air Nomad except he cannot bend; maybe one of his ancestors was a true Airbender. Same goes for Ty Lee, an incredibly spiritual person who looks much more like an Air Nomad than a Fire Nation girl (her hair and eye color matches the Air Nomads)
22	* The name 'Nomad' doesn't seem to actually mean much considering the fact that these people were living in four large temples.
23	* A comic in The Lost Adventures says that Fire Nation soldiers took relics from the temples and plant them in towns in such a way as to give the impression to airbenders that another refugee airbender was hiding nearby. When they arrived at the supposed Air Nomad hiding spot though they would by ambushed by Fire Nation soldiers and killed.
24	** That may make sense for smaller settlements, where the Fire Nation held influence (if not outright control). But what about the North Pole, Omashu or Ba Sing Se - large, fortified cities we know had fended off the Fire Nation? No groups of Air Nomads reached either of those cities? It's doubtful King Bumi wouldn't have brought up large groups of Air refugees simply showing up and vanishing.
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26
27	!!Homosexuality
28	Assuming the monks/nuns aren't celibate, wouldn't gender separated air temples encourage homosexuality?
29	* First off, homosexual attraction is not the same as just randomly doing it with someone of the same sex as you. Besides, the Air Nomads wouldn't care - the comics have established they saw no difference between types of love and relationships.
30	* WordOfGod and AllThereInTheManual is also that only the very young or very old are in the temples anyway, which are not ages for romance.
31	* At the most, SituationalSexuality would be in play, here. No different than your stereotypical same-sex shenanigans in bording schools or naval vessels.
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33	[[/folder]]
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35
36	[[folder: Water Tribes]]
37
38	!!Blue clothes
39	How did the Southern water tribe dye their clothes blue? No doubt they were made from otter-seal skin, which is shown to be brown. And the South Pole is not exactly a plant-friendly environment...
40	* A couple of things to note: When the Gaang meet an Earth Kingdom merchant they recognize and readily accept their Water Tribe currency, so clearly there is international trade. Also, there are plants in the show's South Pole (mostly short polar conifers), something again seen in the comics. That's likely where the dye comes from.
41	* Plus, in RealLife squids make dark blue ink, so there might be some ATLA equivalent hybrid.
42
43	!!Wealth
44	Why are the three Water Tribes so poor when they live in what should, by rights, be immensely resource-rich areas for people who can reach those resources? The Northern Water Tribe has access to extremely fertile fisheries, the Foggy Swamp ought to be thick with source plants for medicines and other pharmaceuticals.
45	* RealityIsUnrealistic - You could say the same for Native Americans. They thrived in a bountiful land, but relative to the rest of the world are living in worse conditions and were ''crushingly'' poor. Realistically there are many reasons why they aren't profiting from they're land in that way, such as isolation, slower technological advancement, satisfaction with what they have and perhaps not grasping and/or rejecting the concept of using the land for profit.
46	* Plus, both the Northern and Southern tribes have been attacked repeatedly by the Fire Nation, specifying that they have withstood the Fire Nation for nearly a century (and despite that, looks pretty well off). The Foggy Swamp Tribe looks to be very small, so they likely don't have the manpower to fully exploit it, and their culture seems pretty laid back anyways.
47	* The Southern Water Tribe and Foggy Swamp Tribe both seem to be relatively recently founded, which is why they're both so scattered and such. As for the northern tribe, they already have a city, what else is there to have? Having a full-fledged city is nothing to scoff at, and they've managed to remain completely safe from the Fire Nation for the past 100 years, a feat even the Earth Kingdom couldn't pull off - Iroh managed to break down the outer wall of Bah Sing Se and only gave up the siege after his son died.
48	* In the case of the Northern and Southern tribes another major issue is probably their food supply. They have exactly zero arable land and rely on fishing and hunting to feed themselves, which is much less productive than agriculture, which means they collectively spend much more time acquiring food, which means they collectively have a lot less free time to spend doing things like building infrastructure or acquiring resources that aren't food. Honestly, if anything the Northern water tribe is ''more'' wealthy than it realistically should be.
49
50	!!How does Yon Rha know?
51	In the flashback during The Southern Raiders, Yon Rha tells Kya that his source claims there is one waterbender left in the Southern Tribe. Now, the tribe has already shrunk in population thanks to previous raids and is hardly in the most accessible of places. Anyone knowing there's a waterbender left had to have either seen Katara or heard about her. So, in this small, isolated village with only a young novice waterbender to attract a raid, ''who'' was Yon Rha's source?
52	* Outsider traders, or even prisoners taken in the Fire Nation's raids. There are probably also other tribes scattered around the South Pole as well. Any of them could have let that fact slip.
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54
55	!!Why are women not allowed to waterbend, exactly?
56	The tradition of not teaching women waterbending in the Northern Water Tribe makes no sense. Who was the first Waterbender? The moon. What gender is the moon spirit? Female.
57	* It's not that they don't teach women waterbending. It's that they don't teach women ''combat'' waterbending. What do you think the healers Katara was sent to work with used? Also, until Yue does her sacrifice, the moon spirit is a fish, not a humanoid female, so WhatMeasureIsANonHuman presumably.
58
59	!!So can men learn healing waterbending?
60	Regarding the Northern Water Tribe's opposition to teaching women non-healing waterbending, was it that only men are allowed to learn combat waterbending ''and'' only women are allowed to learn healing, thereby imposing strict gender roles on both, or was it just women who aren't allowed to learn everything? I don't think we ever saw a single male healer anywhere, much less from the north, but was there any WordOfGod on this?
61	* Men are probably ''allowed'' to learn healing, but since it's considered a "womanly" thing, most probably opt not to. While they likely weren't technically BANNED from it, it was in all likelihood discouraged.
62	** It seems much more likely for a ban going both ways, otherwise Katara would have pointed out the hypocrisy.
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64
65	!!Why are women not allowed to waterbend, exactly? Part II
66	With bending being a thing and all, why was it that the system of gender roles used by the Northern Water Tribe ever became a thing? As a comparison, in the ''Harry Potter'' world a woman was president in the 1920s because there were no roadblocks keeping a woman from doing the same things a man could do.
67	* History/culture/tradition, whatever you want to call it. You'll notice that Pakku never suggests that Katara would be incompetent or unable to learn combat waterbending, just that he won't teach her because of the rules. Sokka also developed similar views of gender roles before the series started. Somewhere in their history the water tribes simply established gender roles and it's just stuck. Although in Sokka's case it seems to have been an assumption based on what he observed rather than something he was taught.
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69
70	!! Why was the Northern Water Tribe mostly left alone during the war?
71	Water Benders were kidnapped from the Southern Tribe during repeated raids that lasted for days and possibly weeks.
72	* The Northern Tribe has a huge city with walls and a large military. The Southern Tribe is way smaller, and presumably an easier target.
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74
75	[[/folder]]
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77
78	[[folder: Earth Kingdom]]
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80	!!I don't like segregation, says the person from the gender-segregated temple
81	When the Gaang gets to Ba Sing Sei and are taken on the tour of the city, they notice that the rings are divided by class. Aang comments that this is why he never liked to travel there before, because it's so different from the way the monks taught him to live. But...didn't the monks separate everyone by gender? How is that different? And if it is different, why did Aang think his way was better?
82	* The Air Nomads are separated for spiritual and religious reasons, in an attempt to reach enlightenment, instead of randomly being divided because the higher-ups didn't want to see your face. Besides, it's been pointed out that only young children and elders are in the temples. Presumably they weren't separated for ''life'', unlike the people in Ba Sing Se.
83	* Separation of social class is also likely quite jarring for a spiritual nation, which would reject worldly possessions and whatnot. Aang is the [[TheChosenOne Avatar]] — he pretty much ''exists'' to combat unfair treatment and stagnant cultures like the one in '''Ba Sing Se.'''
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85
86	!!Finding the Avatar
87	How are Avatars from the Earth Kingdom found? The Earth Kingdom is a HUGE nation. It's the biggest of them all and WordOfGod also most populous. When the Avatar is reincarnated into the EK he/she must be very difficult to find!
88	* Seeing as it's customary for the Avatar's identity to be revealed when they reach sixteen, it may be a daunting task to find them, but whoever administers the search has plenty of time. And if it came to it, Raava or one of the previous Avatars could always bring out another type of bending or the Avatar State to speed the search along.
89	** The Kyoshi novels confirmed that they use geometric rituals to pinpoint the Avatar.
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91
92	[[/folder]]
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94
95	[[folder: Fire Nation]]
96
97	!!Keeping prisoners
98	Why does the fire Nation keep prisoners? They have to go to ridiculous lengths to keep waterbenders and earthbenders from being able to escape. They were willing to genocide the Air Nomads, so why not kill Water Tribespeople and Earth Kingdomers?
99	* Remember the reason FN killed the Nomads was to stop the Avatar cycle. There's no way a Waterbender or Earthbender could be the Avatar so there's no need for such brutality -
100	* The earthbenders in "Imprisoned" are useful for labor as evidenced in 1x06, and waterbenders could be useful for healing. Airbenders? Not so much.
101	** You really think someone from the Fire Nation would let a member of an enemy country, who has been imprisoned (and probably tortured) by the Fire Nation, perform healing on them? Maybe some were willing, but probably not many after a waterbender figured out they could move water into someone's throat and drown them, or bloodbend, or any number of ways to kill someone.
102	* Fire Nation propaganda claimed they were educating the world. Capturing enemies and spending large amounts of money and manpower on prisons shows your people that you are more 'civilized' than your enemy.
103	* The Fire Nation also apparently doesn't believe in the death penalty or execution. They've always been big on "honor" and whatnot with Agni Kai duels and such so perhaps they find it dishonorable to kill helpless prisoners when it can be avoided.
104
105	!!Booby traps
106	Why does the Fire Nation ship at the South Pole have traps? Did they just think "Oh, the Avatar might end up here one day and one of our ships might be close enough to see the trap if it sets off, so we'll just add those in!"
107	* The ship was stuck in the ice at which point they booby-trapped it so that no one could use it or retrieve sensitive documents and material, and any attempts to do so would set off a signal for any Fire Nation ships in the area.
108
109
110	!!Zuko incognito
111	Does no one in the Fire Nation know what their prince looks like? Even when Zuko is in his ninja mode, his scar isn't covered.
112	* Even the Lieutenant of their ship didn't even know how Zuko got the scar in "The Storm." This shows that the general populace probably didn't know the faces of most of the royalty. So Zuko and Azula are probably only really recognized by a handful of people, mostly the elite of the Fire Nation, so they could go around the general populace unnoticed.
113	* In a nation with a large population of living flamethrowers with short fuses, burn scars might be more common than you'd think.
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115
116	!!Japan, maybe?
117	So is the Fire Nation based on Japan or not? The designs are [[http://atla-annotated.tumblr.com/tagged/The-Fire-Nation-is-not-Japan actually closer to Chinese and Thai if anything]].
118	** It has an equal amount of design, visuals, and cultural tones that are clearly and in some cases explicitly taken from Japanese art and culture. Both mainlands are archipelagos, and both have a history of rapid industrial and military growth, after which they waged war on other Asian countries. They both also hold a very high sense of honor.
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120
121	!!FNKGB
122	Doesn't the Fire Nation have a KGB-like organization whose job is to ensure the loyalty of citizens (in this matter, rebel hunting), much like how Star Wars had COMPNOR or the Imperial Security Bureau? If they did, shouldn't they be the ones Team Avatar has to contend with?
123	* The Fire Nations citizens are all pretty much onboard with the nations goals and always have been. Between the fairly reasonable goals given for beginning the war plus a century of propaganda the Fire Nation isn't divided on the subject.
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125
126	!!Fire lord? Lady?
127	Is it customary for females to still be referred to as "Fire Lord," instead of a gender-based equivalent?
128	* Yes, Fire Lord is the title no matter who holds it.
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130
131	!!Sun Warriors
132	Are the Sun Warriors Aang and Zuko meet in season 3 directly related to the original Sun Warriors, or are they more akin to the Air Acolytes - regular people who took interest in replicating and maintaining the Sun Warrior ways of life?
133	* They ''are'' the original Sun Warriors; the same tribe, anyway. The episode doesn't imply anything otherwise.
134	[[/folder]]
135
136
137	[[folder:The four nations as a whole]]
138
139	!!How many countries, exactly?
140	It's stated to be 4, yet we have seen two earth kings rule at the same time (The Earth King in Ba Sing Se, and Bumi in Omashu). There are also two Fire Nations, one as the main antagonists of the show, and the sunwarriors. The water tribe has a Northern and Southern one, as well as the Foggy Swamp Tribe. That brings us to a total of 7 nations even before the war.
141	* The US is one country, but it's more a loose collection of states under one government. 'Nation' in the show is also used more tied to ethnicity. Take the Native Americans for example, who are also called First ''Nations'' - they are very different in culture, but band together under one name out of a combination of simplicity / resistance to imperialism.
142	* The Earth Kingdom seemed to be a loose confederation of city states (like ancient China). And the Southern Water Tribe was explicitly under the control of the North. Or at least it was through Season 2 of ''Korra,'' where they explicitly declared themselves a separate nation.
143
144	!!Genetics
145
146	!!!Hiding eye color
147	People from different nations have different eye colors (gray, green, amber, blue). So how are people of one nationality able to pass themselves as another (like the Gaang throughout the third season, or Zuko and Iroh in Ba Sing Se, or Hama)?
148	* Presumably the eye thing isn't universal. There's probably been just enough interbreeding between the nations that there's at least some plausibility that different eye color variants can be found in a given nation.
149	* Aang, Katara, Sokka and Toph told people they were from the Fire Nation colonies. As for Iroh and Zuko, there were lots of refugees because of the war, so even if people could tell that Zuko and Iroh were from the Fire Nation, they were probably assumed to be political refugees. And Hama certainly falls under RuleOfScary.
150
151	!!!Everyone has blue eyes
152	How is it that, in a nation consistently surrounded by the world's worst snow glare, the dominant brown eye trait managed to get bred out of the Water Tribe completely, leaving only the extremely vulnerable blue eye trait? Following that, how is it every Water Tribe person over the age of 40 isn't blind or very near to it? Pakku is close to 80 and seems to have perfect vision.
153	* ArtisticLicenseBiology for the sake of ElementalEyeColors. While Arctic people in real life have brown eyes, no Water people in ''Avatar'' have them. All of them have blue eyes because WaterIsBlue. Likewise, the Earth kingdom is populated by East Asians with bright green eyes (not as egregious but still unusual), and the Fire nation people have yellow eyes, which in RealLife is extremely rare.
154
155	!!!Hair
156	Almost everyone in the world of ATLA has black hair, but Bumi is ginger? Where did that come from?
157	* Suki has auburn hair, so Bumi isn't alone, but it is shown much less than it probably should.
158
159	!!A hundred year war
160	How did the Fire Nation and Earth Kingdom manage to fight each other for a hundred years? You would think attrition would wear them down to the point that one or the other has to give up.
161	* If the Fire Nation was ''severely'' overpopulated at the start of the war, so they could absorb fairly nasty casualties with minimal impact on their economy. This would also give another reason why Sozin started the colonies: He needed more land to feed and house all his people.
162	* Also, there's a tendency (because it's true for modern ones) to think 'war == constant combat', but the conflict between FN and EK might just involve a bunch of clashes from time to time. Hell, in RealLife Europe had ''two'' Hundred Years Wars, both fought between the same kingdoms (England and France). So it's not at all impossible for both to still be at it after 100 years and it's even possible that 50 years or so after the end they go back to war for a long time.
163	* Keep in mind that the Earth Kingdom is the size of a supercontinent that covers most of the entire world reminiscent to the size of Afro-Eurasia which would take more than a century for a country to conquer one. So technically the "war" is more like an expedition for the Fire Nation to colonize an entire continent annexing multiple vassal states rather than just a direct conflict against a single country. The Earth Kingdom isn't very centralized politically or militarily unlike the Fire Nation as they had just industrialized and there doesn't seem to be any infrastructure or transport in the Earth Kingdom that would lead from one side of the continent to another. The Gaang had to use a sky bison (a nearly extinct species) to travel the world so it would've taken for the Earth Kingdom postal system years or even decades to deliver a message for the capital Ba Sing Se to respond and even then, Earth King Kuei would have done ''nothing'' about it due to the Dai Li brainwashing the public and isolating the most powerful monarch from the rest of the world.
164	** Take for instance UsefulNotes/TheBritishEmpire (the largest empire in our world history), which made its first colony in 1607 and it reached its peak at the early 20th century taking over about 25% of the world's land. It took about '''400 years''' for Great Britain to take over a '''small portion''' of the world. A far cry from the Fire Nation taking over the entire Earth Kingdom in just a century.
165	[[/folder]]
166

Context Headscratchers / AvatarTheLastAirbenderTheFourNations