Line #33 Fridge/CommandAndConquer


1	!!FridgeBrilliance:
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3	* I was watching a speedrun of ''Red Alert 2'' Soviet Missions, and after the third mission, Big Apple, during the video introduction for the fourth mission, when Yuri and the Premier video call Vladimir, he's seen in a pool in a penthouse with two ladies while some music plays in the background. Big deal, right? Well, the music that was playing is some kind of metal style music.
4	* This troper felt that the US President in ''Red Alert 3'' [[spoiler:being an Imperial cyborg spy]] was incredibly stupid and out of the blue, even for a series as camp as this one. However, playing through the Ally and Soviet campaigns a second time made me realise just how brilliant a development it was: [[spoiler:the Empire infiltrated the HIGHEST LEVELS OF AMERICAN OFFICE, giving themselves an incredible means to deflect attention away from Japan, and onto the Soviet Union]]. It suddenly became a pretty slick twist. - poptart_fairy
5	** It also makes MORE sense during the Allied Campaign as said President goes off to launch attacks as the Soviets with super weapons. This makes sense because since he's [[spoiler:an Imperial cyborg he was ordered to shoot at the Soviets and stop them from joining forces and get them fighting each other again.]]
6	** The United States in general isn't as powerful as it was in the previous game, so this could be a bit more plausible for such a deep infiltration. It could also answer why Einstein's absence would suddenly bring upon the Rising Sun.
7	* In the Allied campaign in ''Yuri' Revenge'', after you go back in time, the war against the Soviet Union is won without you doing a single mission against them. At first, it seemed odd, until I realized - ''your earlier self'' was still around. The Allies found themselves with two commanders, so they sent one against Yuri, the other against the Soviets. Incidentally, this also means that there are [[TwinThreesomeFantasy two Tanyas]].
8	** .And there is the tech you bring back that was still being developed at the start if the war.
9	* In ''Command & Conquer: Tiberium Wars'', the Scrin's "vehicles" are all either hovercraft or legged walkers. They don't use any treaded or wheeled vehicles. At first this just seemed like a design decision to emphasize their alien design and advanced technology. It wasn't until later that I realized that they were designed to operate on planets heavily converted by tiberium - worlds that were naturally going to have nightmarish terrain of jagged crystalline structures that would be impossible to drive wheeled or tracked vehicles through, but that hovering or legged vehicles would much more easily navigate. Suddenly, the Scrin's weapons design isn't just alien, its exceptionally practical for the environments they work in. --@/UnknownTroper
10	* In Tiberian sun, plagued by heavy tiberian pollution, GDI started to rely on bipedal vehicles too, probably for the same reason.
11	* C&C 4 is the black sheep of the series, and Kane seems to be doing some very stupid things, such as seeming to leave the implants in the open. Then you realize; he left the implants relatively open because ''most of them are living 'normal' lives!'' That's right, he's putting his plan's keys in the least likely of places, people (such as Dr. Pascal) who are either going to be high on GDI's protect list, or can defend themselves (in this case, the player). Then you realize in the Nod campaign (whose events are generally canonical, as it ties into the GDI campaign), that [[spoiler: Colonel James is with Gideon to take down Nod; and James]] had Pascal tied up and gagged when she met him. That means that Gideon didn't get Pascal or the other implant holders at random or by idiocy on Kane's part; they were betrayed from the inside. It's dual layered, and it failed, but the fact that Kane learned not to put things in heavy Nod bases that are screaming "Kane's Big Scheme!" helps. To list; Tib Dawn: Temple Prime got ionized. Tib Sun: He aimed to fire a giant world-killing missile, expecting to be able to stop GDI. He can't stop GDI. Tiberium Wars: He tricks GDI into 'winning' the war to get his goals. Tiberian Twilight: He does his best to avoid putting his keys in places that you'd expect the DarkMessiah to keep it. Further brilliance occurs with the Motion Comic; Kane mentions that the device he wants [[spoiler: Pierce]] to recover is "protected against [his] kind", and it's a key to "Ascension." The implants were the key. The basic design of the implants was basically taken from something that isn't supposed to be used by people like Kane, so that's why he couldn't use it. Doesn't excuse everything, but it makes a lot more sense than just it was a bunch of flukes.
12	* Not sure if this should go here or under "Game Developers", but when this troper read an [[http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Command_%26_Conquer:_Incursion article]] describing Westwood's original plans for C&C3, including a plot point where a Nod psychic named Yuri is accidentally sent back in time via chronosphere, he wondered why EA didn't include this brilliant plot point in their version of the game. Then it hit him: tying the two Westwood franchises together would only serve to justify all the backlash EA recieved for Generals being called a "Command & Conquer" game. It's in EA's best interest to pretend all three series are completely distinct universes with no crossover whatsoever. - sirbacon
13	* Command and Conquer Red Alert brilliance- Nadia poisons General Gradenko and Stalin in the same manner; a cup of tea, laced with poison, "made by herself." Russians love their tea the way Stalin loves indiscriminate murder.
14	* So, I was wondering why the Scrin didn't just Tiberiumify Mars or a super-Earth somewhere given that Tiberium is actually a harvest, not really a terraforming agent and it would be easier to just seed planets without hostile natives who might intefere with the process or at least the locals wouldn't be as hostile if it's not their planet. Then it occurred to me that they probably deliberately target life-bearing planets in order to pre-emptively eliminate potential threats.
15	** The initial version of tiberium is also an infection and transformation of local plant life. It isn't until later on that it transforms into the Von-Neumann crystal. Therefore, tiberium grows best on life-bearing planets.
16	* I wondered why the hidden campaign in Red Alert pit you against giant ants as a force with a combination of Allies and Soviet units, and why the units were a yellow-ish colour. I always assumed that the Allies and Soviets had teamed up to fight the ants, and that the yellow was from the ant blood or something. Then, it hit me. You're not Allies. You're not Soviet. You're the goddamn Global Defense Initiative!
17	** Given how you have direct access to Mammoth Tanks, this probably means that Tiberium is connected to Red Alert - whichever branch of Red Alert the Giant Ants campaign is considered canon in.
18	*** ''[[{{Retcon}} At the time]]'', they were connected -- Westwood was quite open that RA was intended to be a prequel. Red Alert 2 derailed that, and the universes ended up officially divorced, but Red Alert's developers couldn't know that would happen when they were making the Secret Ant Missions (though it is more likely the group you're playing as is not UNGDI proper, but rather an earlier incarnation -- like ''Operations Group Echo: Black Ops 9'', or the provisional group that will ''become'' Black Ops 9).
19	* Yuri paints his forces purple, and tends to steal units from the Allies (blue) and Soviets (red). Since Yuri uses both faction's units at the drop of a hat, [[ColourCodedForYourConvenience it makes perfect sense that he use a color which is a mix of both the other faction's colors.]]
20	** Expanding of this, this would mean that the only two remaining primary colors are either Yellow or Green (depending). Green was used as your co-commander in [=RA3=], so why doesn't the Empire use the color yellow? [[spoiler: Red Alert is many things - racist isn't one of them.]] It could also be an aversion of utilizing the color best known for the Tiberian verse's GDI.
21	** Yuri's forces tend to be overpowered and often made of pure NightmareFuel. Why? Well, why wouldn't a man who is keenly aware of the benefits to breaking an enemy's morale use units that are designed to shock and horrify an enemy soldier? His buddy just ''exploded'' into a cloud of toxic gas. His commander is telling him to surrender in a CreepyMonotone. There's a brain on wheels coming over the hill, and a frigging flying saucer overhead. Yuri's not just a good strategist, he's trying to invoke the benefits of NightmareFuel.
22	** This also explains why Yuri's forces seem comparatively inept when it comes to their PropagandaMachine in contrast to the Brotherhood of Nod, which they're a CorruptedCharacterCopy of. Given Yuri's aim of controlling the masses through subliminal messaging, it doesn't matter what the actual ''content'' is. Even if it's a half-baked dinosaur movie, everyone would be too brainwashed to care, while the Psychic Dominator would render propaganda superfluous.
23	* In the final missions or GDI and Nod in Command & Conquer: Tiberian Sun: Firestorm, I questioned why CABAL would leave the relay nodes for his Firestorm walls outside of his infinite barrier of protection, where his ultimate weapon, the Core Defender, can't reach you. Then it hit me. The Defender is a caged beast.
24	* In the Tiberium Wars Nod Campaign, when Kane orders the player to [[spoiler: capture Killian Qatar]], he mentions "and [her sins] are legion. Cut to Kane's Wrath, where you learn that [[spoiler: the assault on Temple Prime, the reinforcements ''supposedly'' sent by Killian were actually commanded by LEGION, under Alexa Kovacs' orders.]]
25	** [[spoiler:Likely a coincidence as he didn't learn of this fact until AFTER Killian is executed.]]
26	* In the map from the first Allied mission in Red Alert 3, it is shown that the Netherlands is the only Allied country in mainland Europe not under Soviet control. In the final mission of the Imperial campaign it is explained why: Amsterdam is the HQ of [=FutureTech=].
27	* There seems to be a pattern in the Red Alert series regarding the Allied Power's most dominant nation. In the first, it's Germany and Greece. In the second, it's the United States. And in the third, it's the United Kingdom. All of these nations (minus Greece in Red Alert 2 and the United States in Red Alert 1) are playable in the Skirmish Mode. One could guess that the dominant power in Red Alert 4 could be France!
28	* Going through all the cinema scenes again, the original game has a subtle distinction between the Global Defense Initiative and Brotherhood of Nod campaigns: In the GDI, even though there's clear bias in places, and some outright lies in others, you still get regular input from the rest of the world. In Nod, it's you, Seth, and extremely limited Nod-approved EVA briefings; later, you, ''Kane,'' and limited Nod-approved EVA briefings, plus ''one'' reluctantly-given television clip that Kane continually mocks (and even talks over) every other sentence. ''This'' is how a loyal Noddy is raised and kept.
29	* Fridge brilliance times two here. First, in the cutscene introducing the Scrin in the Third Tiberium War, if you watch carefully you notice that GDI's ion cannon network destroys several Scrin ships and probably helps to ''slightly'' even the odds to help Earth survive. Only that's something else: Kane's plan always hinged on Earth being strong enough to fight the Scrin. Look at the history of games Kane is actually in:
30	** ''Red Alert'': Becomes the primary advisor to Stalin and patiently guides the Soviet Union. If the Soviets achieve domination, the world is effectively under Kane's rule and he can pursue his plans. If the Allies win, Kane has still managed to unify the most powerful governments of the planet under one group that can work together.
31	** ''Tiberian Dawn'': If the Brotherhood wins, Kane has untold billions at his disposal, fanatical followers by the legion, and the most advanced weapons yet seen. If GDI wins, Kane has hardened them for what Tib will do to the planet.
32	** ''Tiberian Sun'': Nod wins, Kane manages to turn the Earth into a massive ball of Tiberium ripe for the Scrin to approach and take. GDI wins, Kane has again bloodied the world and encouraged GDI to build up.
33	** ''Tiberium Wars'' and ''Kane's Wrath'': GDI manages to kick the Scrin off planet but can't access the towers. Nod has the Tacitus, cybernetic legions, and Kane has the final pieces in place.
34	** No matter what happened, Kane would come out on top for when the Scrin did arrive. The constant wars, the eternal schemes, all to prepare mankind for the Scrin, and to succeed in getting Kane home.
35	* The tutorial mission for ''Tiberium Wars'' gives a glimpse into what's apparently standard operating procedure for GDI just before the Third Tiberium War: If a Nod threat is detected, send in a small task force or two, and if the enemy is deemed too large for them to handle, [[KillSat just use an Ion Cannon instead]]. Not only does this rationalize the cost-cutting done since ''Tiberian Sun'', but it also reinforces just how powerful GDI's become that it could ''afford'' to do that. Knocking the Ion Cannon network out is, coincidentally, one of the objectives Kane gives LEGION in ''Kane's Wrath'', and a major reason why the Brotherhood is able to make any significant headway at all. And once said network is back online, all those breakthroughs are rendered moot.
36	* GDI doing away with some of their fancier gear in ''Tiberium Wars'' isn't just due to cost-cutting measures. Advances in railguns, sonic technology and PoweredArmor (resulting in Zone Troopers and a sizable chunk of ZOCOM's arsenal), on top of making them cheaper to produce, have rendered walkers like the Titan and Wolverine seemingly redundant. Meanwhile, the fact that there hadn't been any major large-scale Nod offensives between the Firestorm Crisis and Tib War Three likely fostered the idea that anything more sophisticated than a conventional tank would be seen as overkill as it is wasteful.
37	* According to WordOfGod, when Einstein [[RetGone erased Hitler from history]] to prevent the original World War 2, all he did was create an alternate timeline which became ''Red Alert 1'', with the original Einstein from "our" history (kinda) returning to his laboratory in Trinity. By contrast, Einstein's [[HoistByHisOwnPetard own erasure from reality]] thanks to a Soviet-made time machine results in Premier Cherdenko, General Krukov, and Dr. Zelinsky coming back to an altered Moscow instead of the one they left. Which wouldn't make much sense, except that Zelinsky's reverse-engineered time travel wasn't derived from Einstein's research, but Nikola Tesla's, which would lead to somewhat differing results.
38	* It's a minor gripe for some ''Red Alert 2'' players that Soviet conscripts are armed with [=PPSh-41=]s even though they had access to [=AK-47=]s in the last war, and as seen with Boris in ''Yuri's Revenge'', still have the means to make them. However, given that the nation was disarmed following its defeat in that war, it makes sense for something as outdated as the [=PPSh-41=] to be the only small arms they have left in abundance. The Allies might have considered it to be more of a police weapon due to its inferior range and small calibers, and thus allowed the new Soviet regime to keep all of it. Also, nobody expects the Soviets to use a 30-year-old SMG as the new standard issue in the event of another war, so they can mass-produce it without anybody batting an eye.
39	** This can also explain why the Soviets still have access to aircraft other than Kirov Airships, such as the [=MiG=] strike fighters and Siege Choppers seen in ''Yuri's Revenge'', albeit used sparingly. Despite the disarmament treaties, it's likely that the Allies might have allowed the USSR to retain a vestigial air force under the logic that it'd be just sufficient to [[ExactWords defend the Motherland]]. Unfortunately for them, this leaves just enough in the way of loopholes for the Soviets to exploit.
40	* In ''Red Alert 2'', the Allies canonically win the war by deploying a strike force straight at the heart of the USSR with a Chronosphere as a Hail Mary gamble. In the Soviet campaign, however, the Allies don't seem to attempt this, with the closest being a desperate raid at the Urals. That is, until one remembers that the reason why the Chronosphere plan works at all is because Communist Cuba was the closest place to America where it could be properly set up to strike at Moscow. Without a successful invasion, itself made possible by much of the US being liberated, the Soviets would have had a better chance of actually winning the conflict.
41	** Moreover, in the Soviet campaign, with Cuba firmly out of reach, the Allies are forced to make do with an alternative near the dwindling territories still under their control, namely Point Hope, Alaska. Despite being a much more desperate measure with less chances of success, it's still too much of a risk for the Soviets to ignore.
42	* In ''Kane's Wrath'', it might seem odd how LEGION is EasilyForgiven by Kane despite its role [[spoiler:in helping bring about Killian Qatar's downfall, if unwittingly, on Alexa Kovacs' orders]]. While this could be chalked up to either Kane [[CantKillYouStillNeedYou still needing the AI]] for his Ascension, some genuine affection towards his creation or both, it's also likely due to how he doesn't want another [[VideoGame/CommandAndConquerTiberianSun Firestorm Crisis]] at the worst possible time. As loyal as LEGION is, he still doesn't want to risk it repeating the same mistakes [[AIIsACrapshoot CABAL]] made.
43	* The Steel Talons are described as an experimental weapons unit, but their unique roster mostly consists of ''Tiberian Sun'' throwbacks like Titans and Wolverines, making their 'experimental' nature dubious... in 2047. In 2034, when the Steel Talons are in their heyday, all those 'standard' units that the Steel Talons use are new and experimental - and by 2047, are standard issue in GDI. Since the Steel Talons do not show up again in the later acts of KW, this allows the Talons to represent a GDI force more representative of the ''Tiberian Sun'' era that Act I takes place in while justifying why they use most of the same units as the rest of GDI in the game's present day.
44	** This experimental aspect is also coincidentally why the Titans and Wolverines used by the Steel Talons see action in 2052. While still recognizably reminiscent of their ''Tiberian Sun'' counterparts, their improved armor and overall refined design proved superior to their predecessors that even after being brought out of storage following the end of the Third Tiberium War, they remain a useful-enough platform for further upgrades, as seen in the modified Titan Mk. [=IIs=] seen by the time ''Tiberian Twilight'' takes place.
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46	!!FridgeLogic:
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48	* So in Red Alert 3, the elimination of Einstein has also prevented the development of nuclear weapons. However, there are now three people on the Soviet side with knowledge of nuclear weapons: Premier Cherdenko, General Krukov, and Dr. Zelinsky. Krukov would probably not know the details, but Cherdenko might, and Zelinsky should know enough that the Soviets could easily build a working nuclear program. So why don't they?
49	** They don't have time to start a nuclear program from scratch. They're only 3 people, with at best fragmentary knowledge about the construction of nuclear weapons, and when they get back with the time machine the Japanese invasions had already began.
50	* Kane says the first wars he waged against GDI were done with intent of weakening them rather than defeating, but GDI going from a joint armed task force to replacing the UN seems to make it seem like they had the opposite effect.
51	** Perhaps that is a weakened GDI. Makes you wonder how strong they might be if Kane hadn't shown up. OR perhaps they were mearly to give Echo: Black Ops 9 the kick in the pants it needed to start becoming GDI. Kane was shown to be playing the long game.
52	** He said he started the Third Tiberium War to weaken GDI; I don't remember the other wars being mentioned when he said it, only TW3. That's why he held back from a potential decapitation strike on the Pentagon (though he still hit it pretty hard). He wanted GDI when they were reeling from being slammed in the face rather than arming up to fight the aliens with their full pre-war capabilities which were, despite the cuts, implied to be extremely formidable, particularly in Kane's Wrath when he gave the full explanation for TW3 and you see a lot of the behind the scenes that set it up. Note that most of your pre-TW3 KW missions are about GDI being too strong to attack and that Kane needed to show that they weren't invincible as was believed.
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54	!!FridgeHorror:
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56	* While Red Alert plays most everything for laughs, when looks at how the USSR and Imperialist Japan treated people they conquered, and how [[AllThereInTheManual background material for Soviet units]] in Red Alert 3 indicates them crossing the MoralEventHorizon more than once, them wining in their campaigns would plunge the world into a cruel age of oppression and death, especially if the Empire of the Rising Sun won.
57	* Hitler, Hitler's removal from the timeline led to the rise of Kane. Guess who killed Kane for good and made sure anything related to was exterminated? The Holocaust was also designed to eliminate anything by the Messiah...He was successful.
58	* Through much of the campaign of Red Alert, the civilian faction is neutral to the Allies and a target to the Soviets. With most of the campaigns taking place in central (Allied) or occupied east Europe, it can be readily accepted the Allies consider the civilians 'their' people or victims of Soviet domination, with the Soviet Union simply acting [[KickTheDog callous towards non-combatants]]. But, from the outset of the Allied invasion of the Soviet Union, civilians become targetable. The [[WhatTheHellHero 'good guys']] are now [[WarCrimeSubvertsHeroism targeting innocents]] whose only crime might be defending themselves from an invading army (or simply being a Soviet citizen), while the Soviets seem to act more as [[PetTheDog defenders of the population]]. In a universe where the lessons of the Holocaust and World War II were never learned, where ethnic prejudice could still be alive and popular in a Europe ruled by a [[AllThereInTheManual military junta]] (the Allies in the first game are led by two generals). DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything
59	* ''C&C Red Alert'': Einstein removes Hitler from the time-line, he does nothing about Mussolini who was fascist dictator of Italy by the start of the 1930's. Given that the Allies are a united group featuring the USA and Europe et al fighting the Soviet Union, that means the Allies were composed partially of Fascist forces. That's not even getting into what happens during the Spanish Civil war without the condor legions.... Does Franco's side still win, is Fascist Spain part of the Allies!?\
60	On the positive side of things it is quite likely that the Franco-British reaction to Italy's shenanigans in the thirties would be stronger with the threat of German aggression being weaker, since there'd be less of an attraction to trying to keep Italy in-line against the Germans -- in a world where the Italo-Ethiopian War was a costlier endeavour and the support for the Spanish rebels quite likely ended up a failure (German airlifting was ''pivotal'' in allowing the rebels to put their most experienced, well-equipped force against the government-loyal forces), Italian fascism, and Mussolini in particular, would be in a less secure position come 1939.
61	* The Scrin campaign makes it clear what their original plan on Earth was the standard procedure for the harvesting operations, and while we don't learn much about them, one has to wonder how many other planets they wiped out in the harvests.
62	* Taking a closer look at the Scrin forces in ''Tiberium Wars'' reveals that in actuality, quite a lot of their units are ''not'' designed for combat. Buzzers and Disintegrators, for instance, are much more likely mining units that were meant for breaking up massive Tiberium crystals for easier harvesting, and Corrupters are supposed to be used to maintain the health of all other Scrin forces in the field. Really, for the most part, the actual combat forces of the Scrin are their ships, Tripods, and light ground units. Which means that the majority of the Scrin fleet was a mining operation, and the forces that GDI and Nod were getting creamed by were the Scrin equivalent of a police force or a private security outfit. So, then how much more powerful is the ''actual'' Scrin military? Which is actually supported in the Intel database from Tiberium Wars, the Scrin forces seen in it were only rated for defending the towers.
63	* Halfway through Nod's Africa campaign, neutral Zaire is suddenly the site of GDI expansion in the mission select progress map. It's bad enough to think that GDI is [[BlackAndGrayMorality violating the sovereignty of a neutral country]], exactly what Nod's propaganda efforts want in order to sow conspiracy theories in the West. But then you remember that GDI's mandate extends not only to fighting Nod, but to combating global terror and maintaining world peace. Zaire in the 1990's was collapsing into a civil war after years of corrupt rule under a tin pot dictator. The Rwandan Genocide eventually spilled over into Zaire and resulted in [[UsefulNotes/TheCongoWars two bloody conflicts]]. Suddenly, GDI's disregard for Zaire's independence makes sense; they are intervening to stop regional genocide,[[note]]The GDI were originally formed to assassinate key figures advocating for genocide[[/note]] and the government of Zaire is behaving like an obstacle to peace. Nod's subsequent victory, in light of their previous meddling in African civil wars only a few missions ago, means GDI's peacekeeping mission has failed because of Nod interference, and both Zaire and Nod have [[FromBadToWorse brutally crushed an entire people in joint cooperation]].
64	* [[GiantSquid Giant Squids]] are normally quite shy animals who live deep under the sea (300 to 1000 meters) in cold, dark, high pressure waters. Now the Soviets MindRape them into going to the surface and fighting. Just how uncomfortable, or even in ''pain'', are they from an environment they're not suited for? BadPeopleAbuseAnimals indeed.

Context Fridge / CommandAndConquer