Line #18 DethroningMoment/Persona


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9	The following moments in the ''Persona'' series will make you wonder if the folks at Creator/{{Atlus}} were [[DarthWiki/DethroningMomentOfSuck under the influence of their Shadows]] when they implemented these.
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11	Keep in mind:
12	* Sign your entries
13	* One moment per game to a troper, if multiple entries are signed to the same troper the more recent one will be cut.
14	* Moments only, no "just everything he said," or "The entire game" entries.
15	* No contesting entries. This is subjective, the entry is their opinion.
16	* No natter. As above, anything contesting an entry will be cut, and anything that's just contributing more can be made its own entry.
17	* Explain ''why'' it's a DarthWiki/DethroningMomentOfSuck.
18	* Please make sure the moment is fictional and is neither an event that occurred in real life nor something gameplay-related. We have a perfectly good ScrappyMechanic page for the latter.
19	* No ALLCAPS, no '''bold''', and no ''italics'' unless it's the title of a work. We are not yelling the [=DMoSs=] out loud.
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21	[[foldercontrol]]
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23	[[folder:Persona 3]]
24	* Tropers/{{Demonsead}}: Near the end of The Answer, a PlayableEpilogue included in ''VideoGame/{{Persona 3}}'' [[UpdatedRerelease FES]], after finally getting through the hell that was The Abyss of Time, each member of SEES (except Metis) is given a key that would allow them to either leave the dorm (which would make the Abyss disappear) or use the door to the [[SilentProtagonist Main Character's]] dorm room (which is impossible to open normally for some reason) to travel back in time to [[spoiler:the date of their final battle against the Nyx Avatar.]] Everyone is in agreement to leave... except [[ImpliedLoveInterest Yukari]], who wanted to use the keys to [[spoiler:save the Main Character's life.]] This leads to a disagreement about whether it was right or not to [[spoiler:undo his death, both for ethical reasons and for the possibility of fighting the Nyx Avatar again, and possibly losing.]] Yukari ignores all of this, [[HannibalLecture says Junpei is just afraid to die]], calls [[ChangingOfTheGuard Aigis]] out on [[spoiler:not saying goodbye with the rest of SEES to the Protagonist after he died]], says everyone else only cares about themselves, and single-handedly causes SEES to fight for the keys with the winner having them all. All of this unnecessary drama could have been avoided if she just accepted the past and the action of the Main Character like everyone else and just left the dorm, goddammit Yukari.
25	** Tropers/{{Hoki}}: For me, it was not Yukari's decision to fight for the keys to go back in time [[spoiler: and save the Main Character's life]] that was the moment of suck (her grief was partly understandable). It was the fact that the supposed smartest person in the group backed her up for no apparent reason (other than probably having an even playing field) knowing full well of the possible implications of going back in time. So much for being an honor student.
26	*** Tropers/{{supernintendo128}}: While Yukari's actions pissed me off (I mean she put everyone's lives and even the entire world at risk for her own selfish reasons), her actions were somewhat justified (she was clearly overcome with grief and could not think straight at all). However, I'd expect Mitsuru of all people to talk some sense into her instead of blindly supporting her. So what if Yukari comforted Mitsuru during the Kyoto field trip? Is that really worth [[spoiler: risking TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt]] in exchange? Didn't help that the only reason she gave before Aigis kicked some sense into both of them basically amounted to "[[NonAnswer Well, uh, I agreed her on some points and, um... yeah.]]" This pretty much tells me that she had no reason of her own to support Yukari [[IdiotBall except for the fact that the plot demanded it.]] This was completely out of character for her. How am I supposed to believe that this super-smart teenager who puts logic above emotion would blindly be a [[YesMan Yes Woman]] to Yukari instead of try and talk some sense into her like a halfway decent friend? What certainly did not help was that later Mitsuru just flats-out admits that she completely disagreed with Yukari but sided with her anyway because "She made me feel better when I was sad about [[spoiler: my dad dying.]]" That is just bad writing.
27	** Tropers/{{DemonGodOfChaos2}}: For me, it was earlier at the LoveHotel where [[spoiler: the main protagonist is under the influence of a spell from the shadow, as is everyone else]]. After everyone snaps out of it, Yukari [[UnprovokedPervertPayback slaps the protagonist]]. It's bad enough already, but just before regrouping instead of apologizing for the misunderstanding, she says, and I quote. "If you ever say anything about this, I will never speak to you again." If it's one moment that cemented Yukari's scrappy status before The Answer, it's this one.
28	** Animeking1108: What I found to be annoying was how EasilyForgiven Yukari was for her actions in ''TheAnswer.'' She was acting spiteful towards Aigis because [[spoiler: [[EntitledBastard she wanted to be the Wild Card]]]], acted completely disrespectful towards Junpei and Akihiko's deceased loved ones, and wanted to [[spoiler: risk the EndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt [[LoveMakesYouCrazy just to see her dead boyfriend again]]]]. [[KarmaHoudini Despite all that, everyone is quick to forgive her for how she acted]]. This is especially angering since Yukari was my favorite female in ''The Journey.''
29	** Tropers/{{Catmuto}}: My [=DMoS=] also has to do with Yukari. She dropped so far off my list, I banned her from entering my party for the rest of the playthrough. It's the scene during summer vacation when Mitsuru [[spoiler: admits that her family's company had to do with releasing the Shadows]]. During this scene, everyone voices their shock and Yukari yells at Mitsuru, before dramatically storming off. That part was bad enough for me, but then the player has to follow her and listen to Yukari complaining about how this affects her and why she is angry. It was such blatant selfishness on her part, I felt like reaching through the screen and slapping her. There were other [=SEES=] members, who also had horrible things happening to them and were dealing with the news they had just received, yet Yukari didn't care how anyone felt about this, she only cared about what Yukari felt. That was the worst moment in the game for me, it's a scene that is honestly keeping me from playing the game again.
30	** Brohaha: 100% agree with above troper about when Yukari storms out on SEES after Mitsuru admits the truth; I literally could not bring myself into watching that scene again when playing Portable that I just skipped through all the dialogue and picked whatever when prompted for dialogue choices.
31	** Tropers/{{Grotadmorv}}: There's an early Yukari moment that ruined her character for me. If you talk to her in the dorm, she complains about bullying problems at the school, and how mean a person would have to be to do it. However, before and after this, Yukari still insults Junpei relentlessly. It makes her come off as a {{hypocrite}}, and isn't addressed further.
32	* Gene0129: The fact that [[{{Yandere}} Aigis]] [[KarmaHoudini never receives any true comeuppance for stalking the MC and trespassing into his territory]] made me relatively sick. Even worse is how Atlus expects us to see this as anything other than creepy and she immediately ends up a massive scrappy for me.
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35	[[folder:Persona 4]]
36	* Tropers/DrZulu2010: While I still consider ''VideoGame/{{Persona 4}}'' to be my favorite RPG ever, there is one scene who really ticks me off. And that scene would be the buildup to [[spoiler: Nanako's kidnapping.]] Long story short, Dojima [[spoiler:sends your MC to the police compound for interrogation because he thinks you're suspicious.]] Ok, nothing bad there. But this is where those two grab the IdiotBall and never let it go. First, one of the answers that you can tell him is that [[spoiler:you can enter the TV. Dojima, of course, doesn't believe you.]] Now, it's not like [[spoiler:there is a TV where you can stick your hand in and prove him that you're right]]- oh wait, there is. In [[spoiler:Dojima]]'s case, it's even worse. Now, [[spoiler:there is a murderer in Inaba and he has sent threat letters to you and your family.]] What is your course of action? Why, [[spoiler:leave your daughter alone, at home, thereby increasing her chance to get kidnapped, of course!]] Not only that shows how Dojima is useless, but also how he is a terrible parent. Seriously, he is almost TheScrappy for me if it weren't for his character development.
37	** Calamity2007: Agreed on the part that [[spoiler: Dojima doesn't believe you]]. Made even more frustrating is that, if prior to this, you have been working on his Social Link, where a good majority of his character development takes place, and actually makes it a little more understandable [[spoiler: his rash reasoning that led to Nanako being kidnapped]]. It would have been nice to see a potential change to that scene, that if you maxed out his Social Link, [[spoiler: he would at least believe you a little, but due to the events that happen afterwards, never really gets the chance to talk to you about them except for maybe the ending]]. But other than that, it's just a single misstep on an otherwise great game.
38	* Tropers/{{CalamityRaven26}}: Now don't get me wrong, I absolutely ''love'' Persona 4. Hell, Persona 4 Golden is in my top five games of all time! But I seriously need to call bullshit out even with the best of the best, especially in regards to my personal DarthWiki/DethroningMomentOfSuck with this game, where [[spoiler: the Investigation Team attempts to kill Namatame and how you have to talk them out of it. I ''get'' that the team is irrational, especially after Nanako died, but seriously, they acted like complete idiots during that scene. Not only was it ''more'' obvious that something was off in regards to the situation than it was during the Mitsuo scene, but I wanted to ''punch'' Yosuke for thinking murdering somebody when we haven't even heard his side of the story yet. I get that people were angry over Nanako's death, but I was so irritated with this irrationality, as it's completely an OutOfCharacterMoment for the team. But what ''really'' ruins this scene for me is the gameplay implications: in an JustForFun/{{Egregious}} case of GuideDangIt, you have to choose the ''exact response chain'' in order to avoid the second-worst ending. I understand that this game's message is all about the truth, but why make it possible to get a bad ending when incorrectly guessing the killer the next day? Not only does it feel completely stupid on both the characters and developers' parts to make ONE innocent mistake automatically lead to the BadEnd, but it feels downright patronizing, given that the Investigation Team was completely under the control of the IdiotBall ''and'' how much of an insulting GuideDangIt it is.]] Persona 4 is a damn-near perfect game, but it's only ''near'' perfect because this one, shitty moment exists.
39	* Tropers/LucaEarlgrey: The hot springs scene. So Yu and his male companions walk into the hot springs for a relaxing soak, sincerely believing that the spring is empty and is now on males-only hours, only to accidentally walk in on their female friends still splashing around. Chie and company immediately strike back at the guys, interpreting it as an act of perversion. After the guys flee, the girls then realize that they had stayed too long and were bathing well past their timeslot into the men's timeslot... then scoff it off and continue to bathe anyway. Easily the worst and dumbest scene in the entire game, and a sterling example of DoubleStandardAbuseFemaleOnMale, and I was so pissed off that the next day, I went into the TV and committed the Shadow equivalent of SuicideByCop.
40	** {{Ecclytennysmithylove}}: I agree. To drive the DMOS further, let's compare the Persona 4 hot spring episode with a similar hot spring episode of ''VideoGame/{{Persona 3}}'', in which the P3 boys stayed in the spring past their timeslot into the women's timeslot. In that episode, the P3 boys receiving DoubleStandardAbuseFemaleOnMale from the P3 girls (that is, if you fail the stealth-action minigame) actually works because of Ryoji and Junpei's dumb idea for the P3 boys to stay in the spring passed the allotted time for men, and therefore the P3 boys got punished for their actions. In the Persona 4 hot spring episode, however, it's gender-reversed and since no reasonable adults (i.e. Yukiko's parents because they're the owners of, y'know, the Amagi Hot Spring Inn) informed the P4 girls that their time in the spring is up, there is no reason as to why the P4 boys deserved abuse from the P4 girls.
41	** jake38: I have to admit, I love Persona 4 and consider it one of my favorite JRPG'S, but I found the entire Amagi Inn scene to be the worst scene in the entire game, as it just made the whole group look like a bunch of assholes.
42	** Trialman: I’ll add onto this by bringing up the scene after completing Golden’s BonusDungeon. Golden on Steam was my first time with the series, and I had a blast the whole way through, in spite of some ridiculous scenes, including the first hot spring scene. Now, in Golden, when you complete the BonusDungeon and save Marie, there are a handful of scenes, which are either satisfying or cute, but then they get capped off with a second hot spring moment! This time, Yosuke and Teddy are intentionally spying on the girls, and have somehow got Kanji and Yu to help them with it. They knock over the fence, get busted, and Marie electrifies them for it. Okay, at least this time, there is some bad intent with two of the boys, but Yu and Kanji also end up being struck with GuiltByAssociation, and are attacked as well, despite not truly deserving it. Secondly, electrifying them around the hot springs? Surely that’s a lot more dangerous than needed. And of course, the fact that your reward for completing the BonusDungeon includes a second hot spring moment, as if the game needed that. The first was bad enough, so did we really need a second one, even if the inevitable outcome is slightly more justified? Again, a poor reward for finishing that BrutalBonusLevel, especially considering the other scenes like the snowball fight were much sweeter, and could have stood on their own.
43	* Animeking1108: The last few hours were really when the plot of ''Persona 4'' started to get [[IdiotPlot stupid]], but I think one thing that infuriated me was [[spoiler: Nanako's death and resurrection]]. First, let's talk about how it triggers the events leading to either the good or bad ending. The game was basically using [[spoiler: the death of a child]] to [[StuffedInTheFridge emotionally manipulate the player into picking the bad ending]]. If you decide to [[spoiler: spare Namatame, Nanako comes back to life]]. First, [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot it negated a potential moment of character development for the heroes, showing that they're not perfect enough to save the day every time]]. Second, [[UnfortunateImplications it's a huge slap in the face to people who actually had to bury their children or siblings]] by having the situation resolved with a ResetButton. Third, [[BrokenAesop it completely goes against the moral of Naoki and Yosuke's Social Links]], as well as the entirety of ''Persona 3'', about [[spoiler: coming to terms with the death of a loved one]]. [[AssPull Finally, there is no explanation behind this aside from]] ThePowerOfFriendship. ''Persona 3'' may have done something similar with [[spoiler: Chidori]], but that gets a pass for two reasons: 1. That scene was optional and wasn't integral to getting the Good Ending. 2. ''The Answer'' reveals that that scene wasn't canon anyway. I'd expect this kind of writing out of the kids' shows everyone here seems to like, not a fucking [[Franchise/ShinMegamiTensei SMT]] game. [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTNP792ykYM I'll just let the Nostalgia Critic sum up my feelings on this scene]].
44	** [=SorPepita=]: I don't think that [[spoiler:[[KilledOffForReal killing Nanako for real]]]] would have been a good idea (it wouldn't fit the LighterAndSofter tone of the game ''at all'', despite the aforementioned Social Links), but I agree with the UnfortunateImplications point. They basically say that [[spoiler:Nanako came back to life]] because, and I quote, "everyone's voices reached her", which ''is'' a huge slap in the face to people whose loved ones [[spoiler:never woke up]]. Did they not talk enough to them? Did they not say the right words? I think you get the point. It can be problematic as hell when you think about it. It's not impossible to pull off (I'm thinking about [[spoiler:Leela waking up with Fry's help]] in ''The Sting'', which is one of my all-time favorite episodes of ''WesternAnimation/{{Futurama}}''), but I honestly feel this game failed to do so.
45	* Tropers/{{Catmuto}}: Much as I enjoy ''VideoGame/{{Persona 4}}'', a scene around mid-way through the game was so bad, it made me hate Chie. The scene in question has Chie presenting [[spoiler: the human form of Teddy]] in brand-new, freshly bought clothes. The kicker is where Chie admits that she bought the clothes at Junes and telling the cashier to take the money for the clothes from Yosuke. [[note]]Not entirely sure if she means his bank account or an [=EC=] card or what, but Yosuke has ultimately paid for the clothes[[/note]] And those clothes were apparently pretty damn expensive, since Yosuke laments that his goal of saving up enough to buy a motorcycle has basically been ruined. Aside from the fact that Chie uses Yosuke's money without his permission, he wasn't even there when they bought the clothes. And nobody flat out even calls her out on this. In fact, it's never even mentioned. It's mentioned that Yosuke paid for the clothes, but Chie is basically the KarmaHoudini here. With the previously mentioned bathing scene above, this just really puts the unfair into TheUnfairSex.
46	* Tropers/{{immortalfrieza}}: The Social Links are one of my favorite parts of the Persona series, but some of them really grate my nerves at the end due to how backwards their resolutions are and how they throw all the development of the Social Link character out the window. For example, Yukiko's shadow and most of her Social Link are predominantly about how she despises being expected to stay in Inaba and take over the Amagi Inn and deciding she's going to get out as soon as she can. To make a long story short, the Social Link ends when Yukiko ultimately decides that she's just being an ungrateful brat and decides to take over the Amagi Inn after all. This is despite the fact that her ENTIRE character development is devoted to how much she hates the idea of having to run that Inn, learning to stand up for herself, and not be put into the boxes other people want her to, something she is completely correct about, ValuesDissonance be damned.
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49	[[folder: Persona 4 Arena Ultimax]]
50	* Tropers/{{matteste}}: It seems to be near universally agreed that Ultimax was the absolute low point in the franchise, writing-wise. But perhaps the biggest moment of crap that stands out in the game to me was [[spoiler:the reveal of the main villain, Hi-no-Kagutsuchi. I'm gonna get the elephant in the room out first; namely, the fact of him practically being a poor man's Nyarlathotep, copied off one of the series' most beloved villains instead of trying to be more original. Now perhaps the biggest issue with him however, is his goals and motivations. His goal? [[GenericDoomsdayVillain Destroy the world]]. And his motivation? [[LonersAreFreaks So he can be alone due to being an embodiment of loners]]. Not only does this come of as incredibly tame and just dumb, but he also has an issue that is not present with the other embodiment villains in the series that leads to all kinds of [[UnfortunateImplications unpleasant implications]]. Namely that, unlike the past ones, he represents a specific and defined group instead of an element of humanity as a whole. And with how he is portrayed, the group becomes portrayed in the same manner. And just to [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking add insult to injury]], [[AnticlimaxBoss he practically goes down without a fight]] just to make Stu Narukami look better]].
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53	[[folder: Persona 5]]
54	* Connor2107: After the first trip to Shujinku, Joker, Morgana and Ryuji encounter a predatory gay couple with an interest in Ryuji. Joker and Morgana then out of nowhere ditch Ryuji leaving him to his fate. That's right, they abandon one of their supposed best friends to sexual predators. [[SarcasmMode Our heroes, ladies and gentlemen]]! [[note]]''[[UpdatedReRelease Royal]]'' changes it so the couple instead try to get Ryuji into crossdressing. This admittedly is a small improvement, but it still makes Joker and Morgana look like jackasses.[[/note]]
55	* Tropers/{{Grotadmorv}}: Before the Hawaii trip, the group takes a photo. Futaba, who isn't there, makes a comment about it. She reveals that she had put spyware on Joker's phone to allow her to see through his camera. This is incredibly creepy and a massive invasion of privacy, and yet everyone laughs it off as a joke. If someone did that to ''me'' without telling me, I'd be pretty mad. I get that Futaba is a member of the group and probably wouldn't do anything bad, and it comes up later during [[spoiler:the aftermath of Sae's palace]], but the ParanoiaFuel of knowing one of your teammates is watching you at ''all times'' doesn't help.
56	* Animeking1108: Throughout most of ''VideoGame/{{Persona 5}}'', I tolerated Morgana and at least considered him an improvement over Teddie. However, my goodwill for the character was nearly squandered when [[spoiler: he ran away from the Phantom Thieves]]. Why? Because Ryuji kept calling him useless after Futaba took over as the MissionControl. Sure, that sounds understandable, but Morgana really shows off his [[{{Hypocrite}} Glass House]] when you remember that throughout most of the game, he kept berating Ryuji for every little mistake he made. This is only made worse when Ryuji is the only one that has to apologize to get him to come back, and despite that, Morgana still goes back to insulting Ryuji.
57	** Tropers/{{supernintendo128}}: I didn't mind this plot-point as much, as I saw Ryuji and Morgana as VitriolicBestBuds as they always insulted each other throughout the game. I thought Morgana getting upset was understandable as Ryuji's "lol you're useless now" quip came while Morgana was at his most insecure. However, there was one moment during this subplot that kicked my opinion of Morgana down a few notches, and that would be when the thieves try to apologize to Morgana. This seems to go well at first, but after Ryuji accidentally calls him useless again in a poorly-worded apology, Morgana gets upset again. Despite everyone else asking him to come back and telling him how much they need him, he decides to leave again because of the words of one person. While I justified Morgana's actions before, here he comes off as extremely petty and arrogant for taking the poorly-handled words of Ryuji and Ryuji alone as the overall team's opinion of him.
58	* Tropers/{{Supreme-X15}}: Makoto is my favorite character in the game, and the one I wanted to date the most on my first playthrough. Unfortunately, I wasn't Debonair enough to get passed Makoto's third Confidant scenario, so I had to try to max my Charm out before I got to the end of the game, which didn't happen, so I had little choice but choose another girl to date, and then to beat the game to get a NewGamePlus, start the game again with my states as they were before, and max out my Charm like crazy before I started Makoto's Confidant again. Unfortunately, Makoto's Confidant did in fact turn out to be one of the weaker ones in the game, and that's because of Eiko Takao. Makoto is solely focused on her friendship with Eiko, leaving Makoto with little room development much on her own, and Eiko has a very, very bad case of TooDumbToLive. Eiko has bad grades, presumably thanks to putting more time and energy into working in a salon in Shinjuku, but that's not important. What's important about this Confidant is that she has a supposedly handsome (actually really gaudy) host for a boyfriend named Tsukasa, who showers her with so much love & affection it's sickening. The warning signs that Tsukasa is an evil son of a bitch are scattered everywhere, and Eiko utterly fails to pick up on them. He calls her Princess to avoid remembering her name in case he gets mixed up, he isn't faithful to her as proven by texting an unwilling Makoto almost constantly and asking very personal questions, and asking Eiko for money to pay for a broken bottle of sake. [[SarcasmMode Yeah, can't see what's wrong with that]]. We later learn that he plans to sell her into sex slavery, as he's done with previous vulnerable girls like her, and Makoto wants to save her friend from this crisis. Sadly, Eiko is a terrible friend, and an idiot on top of that. She falls for the obvious lie about the broken bottle and asks Makoto to give her some money to help pay for it, refuses to believe Makoto's warnings about Tsukasa, accuses Makoto of trying to steal the bastard from her when the former clearly has no interest, and still refuses to accept that Tsukasa is a scumbag, even after everything is revealed, all because Tsukasa treated her like she was special while her family treats her as TheUnfavourite. I'm sorry Makoto, but I just can't accept this. Not only do you choose a poor excuse for a friend, you also let her so called boyfriend [[KarmaHoudini get away with his crimes]] in the end. And you magically fix everything in the end with your idiot friend? I just wanted to get to know you more and romance you, not help some brainless twit who probably deserved her fate and doesn't deserve your [[UnintentionallyUnsympathetic sympathy]]. I can feel satisfied that I'm finally getting Makoto as my girlfriend for this playthrough, but it feels hollow now, and that's thanks to Eiko. I went through so much crap for this? Thank you Eiko, you lazy good-for-nothing dumbass, for ruining Makoto's Confidant and wasting my time on you.
59	** Tropers/{{TadTadTadTad}}: Gonna have to agree here. Makoto's Confidant could've been so much more interesting and worthwhile from a story standpoint. It would have been really cool to see her getting over her father's death or amending her relationship with her sister. Instead, it focuses on her unbelievable relationship with a girl no one cares about. The fact that I need Debonair Charm just to learn more about random unlikable schoolgirl made it really hard to slog through her Confidant.
60	* Tropers/{{VanillaLime}}: The scene that takes place after [[spoiler: Shido's palace.]] The Phantom Thieves are emotional because they believe Ryuji, one of their teammates, has died saving them. All of a sudden, Ryuji reveals himself to be alive and well. How do the Phantom Thieves react? By [[NoGoodDeedGoesUnpunished beating him up and leaving him unconscious before going out to eat without him]]. I know this is a common comedy trope in Japan where a guy gets beaten up by girls, but was using it at this time really necessary? Ryuji has his moments where be can be a loud asshole that doesn't know when to shut his mouth, but this isn't one of them! At the very least the group could've given him a hug or some compliments before or after the beating starts! It gets even worse when you remember that Ryuji had to deal with an abusive father as well as a teacher breaking his leg in the past, both of which were never played for laughs. Overall this scene was incredibly mean spirited and made the Phantom Thieves look like a bunch of [[UngratefulBastard ungrateful]] {{jerkass}}es.
61	** Tropers/{{KrazyTVWatcher}}: I second this, because as someone who played through ''Persona 5 Royal'' twice, this is definitely not one of the Phantom Thieves' better moments. I felt Ann and Futaba's pain [[TearsOfFear as they both cried about]] [[UnlikelyHero Ryuji]] [[HeroicSacrifice allegedly dying]]. However, when Ryuji reappears, how does everyone thank him? [[AlphaBitch Ann]] slaps him after saying; "It's all your damn fault!". [[spoiler:No, Ann, it's not Ryuji's "fault" that he saved you and the rest of the Phantom Thieves from dying after Shido's palace collapses.]] Instead of being treated like a hero, [[GirlPosse the girls all gang up on Ryuji]] and [[KickTheDog leave him behind while they, Joker, Yusuke, and Morgana]] go grab a bite to eat. I will admit that while Ryuji has said some [[InnocentlyInsensitive dumb (sometimes offensive) things]], he did not deserve any of this.
62	** 227someguy: Yeah, this is the worst moment in the game for me too. Ryuji's not the smartest party member, but he didn't deserve any of this. He literally saved everyone's lives (with a damaged leg), but is treated like a big loser. In particular, this was an OutOfCharacterMoment for [[StudentCouncilPresident Makoto]] and [[TheCutie Haru]], who would've never done something like this. This has even given me a BrokenPedestal towards Futaba, who was like the endearing little sister that I wish I had, and Yusuke, [[AccompliceByInaction who did nothing but watch and even abandoned Ryuji]]. These are supposed to be friends, but they still acted in such an ungrateful fashion. I've even come to accept Ryuji as one of my favorite characters since he's so UnintentionallySympathetic and flat out refuse to romance any of the female party members (except Yoshizawa, who wasn't present and [[NiceGuy would never do anything like that in a million years]]). That's right, they've all been disqualified as "best girl". While Morgana may be my least favorite party member, this was my least favorite scene. To think that this is the kind of story that practices FemalesAreMoreInnocent with its villains.
63	* Tropers/{{matteste}}: The confrontation with the traitor. [[spoiler:To no one's big surprise, the traitor was Goro Akechi. Yet the disappointment of the reveal pales in comparison to the actual confrontation. What do you get instead of a satisfying conclusion to the whole traitor plotline? You get a gibbering brat who goes on about his tragic past and nonsensical plot as if he was Fortune straight out of ''Webcomic/{{Hiimdaisy}}''. All of this comes across as extremely shoehorned, just in a desperate attempt to make him appear sympathetic. And to make matters worse, the Thieves actually buy it and [[ProtagonistCenteredMorality treat him differently from the other villains simply cause he had been a party member]]. And this is despite the fact that not only does he most likely have the highest direct body count of any of them, he was openly portrayed as outright enjoying doing all this dirty work. And yet, he is not only given sympathy, but is even given an act of redemption on top of that. And just to make the thing even more pointless, he is pretty much forgotten by the plot after that point]]. All around, the traitor was just a mess, and the confrontation laid all that bare.
64	** Tropers/{{ElvenQueen}}: The worst part about all of this? [[spoiler:We see Akechi kill Haru's father even after the latter's heart was changed and try to kill Joker and the rest of the Phantom Thieves twice over, and he's strongly implied to be the one who killed Futaba's mother, meaning he's responsible for the two years of suicidal depression she suffered. Despite everything Akechi did to hurt the Phantom Thieves personally, and despite the fact he never shows any remorse for anything he did, whether it directly affected the Phantom Thieves or not, the game expects the audience to think he is the real victim because Daddy Shido didn't give him hugs as a child.]] It's one of the most disgusting examples of UnintentionallyUnsympathetic I've seen in a long time.
65	* MagisterFlopsy: There are a lot of moments in this game I think suffer from questionable writing. However, none of those are what I've chosen as my DMOS. My DMOS is actually a moment that seems decently well-written in a vacuum, but in-context can radically alter a blind playthrough for the worse. The moment I refer to is when Chihaya scams you out of 100,000 yen. Now why is this so bad? Because getting scammed is a requirement to initiate her Confidant, which ends up being one of the most useful confidants in the entire game due to her ability to increase your social stat gain, which is insanely helpful in progressing through other confidants. But who would want to be friends with someone who made the first impression of scamming you out of a small fortune? I would imagine basically nobody. Note that this is only a problem in the vanilla version, where the aforementioned ability is Rank 5, meaning the player will have to put a significant amount of time into hanging out with someone they probably despise before getting it. ''Royal'' gives you the ability at Rank 1, meaning most people will probably gain access to it even if they're playing blind.

Context DethroningMoment / Persona