History YMMV / VorkosiganSaga

14th Apr '17 4:13:54 AM Ciara25
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* What Baron Ryoval did to his family once he killed his father and took over House Ryoval: killed any of his brothers who could have proved a threat to him, and turned his younger brothers and sisters into sex slaves (after heavy body modification) and sent them to serve in 'very-private bordellos'. Mark muses that "I suppose they're all dead now. If they're lucky."
14th Apr '17 4:06:10 AM Ciara25
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** Baron Ryoval stands out as one of the worst villains of the series, and is viewed as a monster even on the WretchedHive of an OutlawTown planet in which he lives. Ryoval started his evil early in life, [[{{patricide}} murdering his father]] and then proceeding (with the exception of two siblings who escaped) to either murder the rest of his siblings or else subjecting them to torture/body modification before condemning them to a FateWorseThanDeath in brothels he runs catering to sadism and sexual perversion. Ryoval is obsessed with torture and sadism both as his primary business and as a hobby, and employees a large staff of {{Torture Technician}}s, who like the rest of his staff, don't like the work, but are too afraid of what he would do to them if caught to flee. Ryoval is actually seventy years old, but looks like a young man because like some other particularly depraved people on his planet, he has had clones of himself produced (who are normal, sapient individuals) and then when they've reached a certain age, he had their brain ripped out and his implanted. He has this "procedure" done several times. [[spoiler: And when he gets his hands on Mark, thinking he's Miles or 'Admiral Naismith', he proceeds to inflict incredibly horrendous tortures on him, including multiple force feedings, flaying and rape. Mark develops four different split-personalities in order to not go completely insane.]]

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** Baron Ryoval stands out as one of the worst villains of the series, and is viewed as a monster even on the WretchedHive of an OutlawTown planet in which he lives. Ryoval started his evil early in life, [[{{patricide}} murdering his father]] and then proceeding (with the exception of two siblings who escaped) to either murder the rest most of his siblings or else subjecting them brothers and subject his sisters and younger brothers to torture/body modification torture/extensive body modification, before condemning them to a FateWorseThanDeath in brothels he runs catering to sadism and sexual perversion. Ryoval is obsessed with torture and sadism both as his primary business and as a hobby, and employees a large staff of {{Torture Technician}}s, who like the rest of his staff, don't like the work, but are too afraid of what he would do to them if caught to flee. Ryoval is actually seventy years old, but looks like a young man because like some other particularly depraved people on his planet, he has had clones of himself produced (who are normal, sapient individuals) and then when they've reached a certain age, he had their brain ripped out and his implanted. He has this "procedure" done several times. [[spoiler: And when he gets his hands on Mark, thinking he's Miles or 'Admiral Naismith', he proceeds to inflict incredibly horrendous tortures on him, including multiple force feedings, flaying and rape. Mark develops four different split-personalities in order to not go completely insane.]]
2nd Apr '17 7:30:48 AM ImperialMajestyXO
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** Baron Ryoval stands out as one of the worst villains of the series, and is viewed as a monster even on the WretchedHive of an OutlawTown planet in which he lives. Ryoval started his evil early in life, murdering his father and then proceeding (with the exception of two siblings who escaped) to either murder the rest of his siblings or else subjecting them to torture/body modification before condemning them to a FateWorseThanDeath in brothels he runs catering to sadism and sexual perversion. Ryoval is obsessed with torture and sadism both as his primary business and as a hobby, and employees a large staff of {{Torture Technician}}s, who like the rest of his staff, don't like the work, but are too afraid of what he would do to them if caught to flee. Ryoval is actually seventy years old, but looks like a young man because like some other particularly depraved people on his planet, he has had clones of himself produced (who are normal, sapient individuals) and then when they've reached a certain age, he had their brain ripped out and his implanted. He has this "procedure" done several times. [[spoiler: And when he gets his hands on Mark, thinking he's Miles or 'Admiral Naismith', he proceeds to inflict incredibly horrendous tortures on him, including multiple force feedings, flaying and rape. Mark develops four different split-personalities in order to not go completely insane.]]

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** Baron Ryoval stands out as one of the worst villains of the series, and is viewed as a monster even on the WretchedHive of an OutlawTown planet in which he lives. Ryoval started his evil early in life, [[{{patricide}} murdering his father father]] and then proceeding (with the exception of two siblings who escaped) to either murder the rest of his siblings or else subjecting them to torture/body modification before condemning them to a FateWorseThanDeath in brothels he runs catering to sadism and sexual perversion. Ryoval is obsessed with torture and sadism both as his primary business and as a hobby, and employees a large staff of {{Torture Technician}}s, who like the rest of his staff, don't like the work, but are too afraid of what he would do to them if caught to flee. Ryoval is actually seventy years old, but looks like a young man because like some other particularly depraved people on his planet, he has had clones of himself produced (who are normal, sapient individuals) and then when they've reached a certain age, he had their brain ripped out and his implanted. He has this "procedure" done several times. [[spoiler: And when he gets his hands on Mark, thinking he's Miles or 'Admiral Naismith', he proceeds to inflict incredibly horrendous tortures on him, including multiple force feedings, flaying and rape. Mark develops four different split-personalities in order to not go completely insane.]]
14th Mar '17 9:08:29 AM akylae
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** Cannon Sue? Aral? [[Main/DesignatedHero He's a hypocrite in five different ways simultaneously.]] He had the son of a friend [[spoiler: executed for dueling (manslaughter in a drunken fight), despite the father's pleas]], even tho:
*** He [[spoiler: killed two men in duels (premeditated murder)]] when he was also a young officer. - So he punishes a youth for a crime he got away with.
*** He admitted that the Betan way is better because it lets people live and learn for their mistakes. - As regent, he insists on being principled, yet fails to rule as he thinks is best.
*** He claimed that the only truly unforgivable crimes are done by dispassionate men out of fear of an imaginary future[[spoiler:, referring to Ezar's assassination of the crown price and purge of his cronies]]. - Yet he forgoes pardon because he fears that if he pardons the youth, his regency will devolve to cronyism[[spoiler:, whereas the crown prince was already a sadist who tried to assassinate Ezar first]].
*** He said Emperor Ezar is his father's friend, and that captain Negri knows everything. - [[Fridge/VorkosiganSaga If Negri knew everything, he knew what Aral did. If Negri knew, Ezar knew. If Ezar knew and Aral got away with it, Ezar had Negri cover it up to spare Aral. Because Aral is the son of his friend.]] - ''Ezar'' showed more mercy than Aral.
*** Finally, when Miles is a youth, he gets away with [[spoiler: unintentional treason]] because Aral [[spoiler:pleads for his life]]. - Vor cronyism must be quashed at any cost, unless Aral has to pay it.

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** Cannon Sue? Aral? [[Main/DesignatedHero He's a hypocrite in five different ways simultaneously.]] He had the son of a friend [[spoiler: executed for dueling (manslaughter in a drunken fight), despite the father's pleas]], even tho:
*** He [[spoiler: killed
got away with intentionally killing two men in duels (premeditated murder)]] when he was also as a young officer. - So he punishes a youth for a crime he got away with.
*** He
officer; admitted that the Betan way justice system is better because it lets people live and learn for from their mistakes. - As regent, he insists on being principled, yet fails to rule as he thinks is best.
*** He
mistakes; and claimed that the only truly unforgivable crimes are done by dispassionate men out of in fear of an imaginary future[[spoiler:, referring imagined future - then refused to Ezar's assassination of the crown price and purge of his cronies]]. - Yet he forgoes pardon a young officer for accidentally killing another in a drunken brawl - despite the youth's father and his personal friend pleading Aral to reduce the charges from treason to "just" murder - because he fears that if he pardons the youth, feared his regency will would devolve to cronyism[[spoiler:, whereas into cronyism if he did. Then years later, the crown prince was already a sadist who tried to assassinate Ezar first]].
*** He said Emperor Ezar is
grieving father drops charges against Aral's son for unintentional treason because Aral begs him for mercy. Also, Aral claimed his father's friend, father is a friend of Ezar, and that captain Negri knows everything. - [[Fridge/VorkosiganSaga If Negri knew everything, meaning he knew what Aral did. If Negri knew, Ezar knew. If Ezar knew and Aral only got away with it, Ezar had Negri cover it up to spare Aral. Because Aral is the son of his friend.]] - ''Ezar'' showed more mercy than Aral.
*** Finally, when Miles is a youth, he gets away with [[spoiler: unintentional treason]]
crime because Aral [[spoiler:pleads for Ezar spared him. Oh and the future form his life]]. unforgivable crime reference was not imaginary - Vor cronyism must be quashed at any cost, unless Aral has to pay it. Ezar ''showed him evidence'' of the crown prince's ''past'' crimes. [[Main/DesignatedHero How many layers of hypocrisy is that?]]
27th Feb '17 8:39:31 AM akylae
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* CanonSue: Cordelia and Aral seem to edge into this territory being almost unanimously admired by the rest of the characters and portrayed as unfailing sources of wisdom. Cordelia at least is still allowed to get things wrong - although nothing too great - as the series progresses, but Aral gets this is a lot. It may be an artifact of mostly seeing him through the viewpoints of his younger relatives, especially Miles, to whom he appears basically perfect, forgetting, of course, he's a recovering alcoholic, short-tempered, and jealous, and without a stabilizing influence (Piotr, Cordelia), he's extremely self-destructive to the point of suicide.

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* CanonSue: Cordelia and Aral seem to edge into this territory territory, being almost unanimously admired by the rest of the characters and portrayed as unfailing sources of wisdom. Cordelia at least is still allowed to get things wrong - although nothing too great - as the series progresses, although nothing too great, but Aral gets this is a lot. It may be It's an artifact of mostly seeing him through the viewpoints of his younger relatives, especially Miles, to whom he appears basically perfect, forgetting, of course, he's a recovering alcoholic, short-tempered, and jealous, and without a stabilizing influence (Piotr, Cordelia), he's extremely self-destructive to the point of suicide.


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** Cannon Sue? Aral? [[Main/DesignatedHero He's a hypocrite in five different ways simultaneously.]] He had the son of a friend [[spoiler: executed for dueling (manslaughter in a drunken fight), despite the father's pleas]], even tho:
*** He [[spoiler: killed two men in duels (premeditated murder)]] when he was also a young officer. - So he punishes a youth for a crime he got away with.
*** He admitted that the Betan way is better because it lets people live and learn for their mistakes. - As regent, he insists on being principled, yet fails to rule as he thinks is best.
*** He claimed that the only truly unforgivable crimes are done by dispassionate men out of fear of an imaginary future[[spoiler:, referring to Ezar's assassination of the crown price and purge of his cronies]]. - Yet he forgoes pardon because he fears that if he pardons the youth, his regency will devolve to cronyism[[spoiler:, whereas the crown prince was already a sadist who tried to assassinate Ezar first]].
*** He said Emperor Ezar is his father's friend, and that captain Negri knows everything. - [[Fridge/VorkosiganSaga If Negri knew everything, he knew what Aral did. If Negri knew, Ezar knew. If Ezar knew and Aral got away with it, Ezar had Negri cover it up to spare Aral. Because Aral is the son of his friend.]] - ''Ezar'' showed more mercy than Aral.
*** Finally, when Miles is a youth, he gets away with [[spoiler: unintentional treason]] because Aral [[spoiler:pleads for his life]]. - Vor cronyism must be quashed at any cost, unless Aral has to pay it.
8th Jan '17 6:14:30 AM SeptimusHeap
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* FreudWasRight: Butter bugs, according to Bujold, are "an ugly alien creature that, when petted, barfs a dubious thick white liquid into one’s hand, but at the same time, if one can get past the biological {{squick}} factor, promises a greatly enhanced future life, is not a symbol of female anything." Yes, the author deliberately made butter bugs ''phallic symbolism''.
14th Dec '16 10:33:49 PM AnotherGuy
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* FreudWasRight: Butter bugs, according to Bujold, are "an ugly alien creature that, when petted, barfs a dubious thick white liquid into one’s hand, but at the same time, if one can get past the biological {{squick}} factor, promises a greatly enhanced future life, is not a symbol of female anything." Yes, the author deliberately made butter bugs ''phallic symbolism''.
5th Dec '16 8:09:56 AM FuzzyBoots
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* JerkassHasAPoint: Contemplate Miles' medical nightmare of a childhood and recognize that there was an element of MercyKill in Count Piotr's murder attempts.



* JerkassHasAPoint: Contemplate Miles' medical nightmare of a childhood and recognize that there was an element of MercyKill in Count Piotr's murder attempts.
26th Nov '16 2:47:27 PM ImperialMajestyXO
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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Beta Colony, {{Utopia}} or {{Dystopia}}? Depends on where you stand on their more [[FreeLoveFuture interesting]] [[CriticalPsychoanalysisFailure social practices]]. Even the Betans themselves can't agree. A Utopia sustained by weapons R&D and sex tourism seems - odd.

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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: Beta Colony, {{Utopia}} or {{Dystopia}}? Depends on where you stand on their more [[FreeLoveFuture interesting]] [[CriticalPsychoanalysisFailure social practices]]. Even the Betans themselves can't agree. A Utopia sustained by weapons R&D and sex tourism seems - odd.
14th Nov '16 11:28:29 AM roxana
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** Note however that Alys had been in labor for DAYS. How 'brave' would she have been if say Padma had been slowly bleeding from an open wound that wouldn't staunch?
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