Follow TV Tropes

Following

History YMMV / TheFifthElephant

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Trope was cut/disambiguated due to cleanup


* EvilIsSexy: Wolfgang is ANaziByAnyOtherName who despises non-werewolves and plans to plunge Uberwald into civil war ForTheEvulz. He is also a blond young man in top physical condition who is totally unabashed about going around naked (when in human form).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* {{Applicability}}: Yennorks, werewolves who can't shapeshift, can be seen as a metaphor for anyone who is not "visibly" a member of a group (bisexuals, biracial people who "pass" as one side or the other of their heritage, people with invisible disabilities, etc). Angua stresses that a yennork is ''not'' a regular human or a regular wolf but a werewolf, regardless of the fact they can't take on the other shape. However, people often perceive them that way anyway, and they face discrimination from other werewolves for not being "proper" werewolves. (To a lesser extent, this also applies to Angua herself; a significant B-plot hinges on the fact she's very much ''not'' a wolf no matter what she's shaped like, and unlike humans, wolves don't get confused about that.)
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* EvilIsSexy: Wolfgang is ANaziByAnyOtherName who despises non-werewolves and plans to plunge Uberwald into civil war ForTheEvulz. He is also a blond young man in top physical condition who is totally unabashed about going around naked (when in human form).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* TooCoolToLive: Inigo Skimmer and Gavin.

to:

* TooCoolToLive: [[spoiler: Inigo Skimmer and Gavin.Gavin]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: This is the book that most stresses the difficult question of whether Carrot is an honest idealist who has the laws of [[TheoryOfNarrativeCausality narrative causality]] in his favor, or more of a MagnificentBastard / ManipulativeBastard with ObfuscatingStupidity. For instance, [[spoiler: his LetsFightLikeGentlemen approach against a werewolf rather conveniently leads to romantic rival Gavin making a HeroicSacrifice. Though, it must be noted, '''Gavin''' does the wolf-ish equivalent moments later, as if to underscore how similar the two really are.]]

to:

* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: This is the ''Literature/{{Discworld}}'' book that most stresses the difficult question of whether Carrot is an honest idealist who has the laws of [[TheoryOfNarrativeCausality narrative causality]] in his favor, or more of a MagnificentBastard / ManipulativeBastard with ObfuscatingStupidity. For instance, [[spoiler: his LetsFightLikeGentlemen approach against a werewolf rather conveniently leads to romantic rival Gavin making a HeroicSacrifice. Though, it must be noted, '''Gavin''' does the wolf-ish equivalent moments later, as if to underscore how similar the two really are.]]

Removed: 113

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* [[MagnificentBastard Magnificent Bitch]]: Lady Margolotta and Serafine von Uberwald, [[spoiler: Dee and Rhys.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Changed: 787

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* CompleteMonster: [[AxCrazy Wolfgang Von Uberwald]] is a {{sadist}}ic werewolf. Before the book starts, he murders his little sister, Elsa, because she isn't a bimorphic werewolf and, as such, is "[[FantasticRacism impure]]". He takes the werewolf tradition of [[HuntingTheMostDangerousGame hunting humans through a forest]], and adds the cruel twist of [[HopeSpot giving them the illusion that they've escaped]] before ripping them to shreds. He doesn't care about all the political power he and his family can gain through the civil unrest; he just likes being sadistic.

to:

* CompleteMonster: [[AxCrazy Wolfgang Von von Uberwald]] is a {{sadist}}ic werewolf. Before [[OurWerewolvesAreDifferent sadistic werewolf]] who is [[FantasticRacism obsessed with the book starts, he murders his little sister, Elsa, because she isn't a purity of bimorphic werewolf and, as such, is "[[FantasticRacism impure]]". He takes the werewolf tradition of [[HuntingTheMostDangerousGame werewolves]], even [[SiblingMurder murdering his own sister]] for failing this test. A SerialKiller who savors hunting humans through a forest]], and adds the cruel twist of [[HopeSpot giving helpless human prey, Wolf allows them the illusion that they've escaped]] before ripping glimpses of hope by fleeing him, only to set upon them and rip them to shreds. He doesn't care about all Wolfgang does not bother to play by the political power he and his family can gain through rules, relishing in the civil unrest; sadistic slaughter of those he just likes being sadistic.hunts. Leading a werewolf conspiracy to plunge Uberwald into war, Wolfgang intends on creating a widespread slaughter more for the fun of it than any true advantage or power.

Changed: 51

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* CompleteMonster: [[SavageWolves Wolfgang Von Uberwald]] is a {{Sadist}}ic [[OurWerewolvesAreDifferent werewolf]]. Before the book starts, he murders his little sister, Elsa, because she isn't a bimorphic werewolf and, as such, is "[[FantasticRacism impure]]." He takes the werewolf tradition of [[HuntingTheMostDangerousGame hunting humans through a forest]], and adds the cruel twist of [[HopeSpot giving them the illusion that they've escaped]] before ripping them to shreds. He doesn't care about all the political power he and his family can gain through the civil unrest; he just likes being sadistic.

to:

* CompleteMonster: [[SavageWolves [[AxCrazy Wolfgang Von Uberwald]] is a {{Sadist}}ic [[OurWerewolvesAreDifferent werewolf]]. {{sadist}}ic werewolf. Before the book starts, he murders his little sister, Elsa, because she isn't a bimorphic werewolf and, as such, is "[[FantasticRacism impure]]." impure]]". He takes the werewolf tradition of [[HuntingTheMostDangerousGame hunting humans through a forest]], and adds the cruel twist of [[HopeSpot giving them the illusion that they've escaped]] before ripping them to shreds. He doesn't care about all the political power he and his family can gain through the civil unrest; he just likes being sadistic.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* [[MagnificentBastard Magnificent Bitch]]: Lady Margolotta and Serafine von Uberwald[[spoiler:, Dee and Rhys.]]

to:

* [[MagnificentBastard Magnificent Bitch]]: Lady Margolotta and Serafine von Uberwald[[spoiler:, Uberwald, [[spoiler: Dee and Rhys.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* HilariousInHindsight: Inigo Skimmer is (effectively) an Assassin...[[Franchise/AssassinsCreed with an obscenely dangerous sliding knife attached to his wrist.]]

to:

* HilariousInHindsight: Inigo Skimmer is (effectively) an Assassin...[[Franchise/AssassinsCreed with an obscenely dangerous sliding knife attached to his wrist.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FridgeHorror: Vimes, watching the clacks at work, thinks that its inventors must be making money hand over fist. [[Discworld/GoingPostal The poor fellows]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FridgeBrilliance: Vimes and Sybil both privately hold the opinion that Carrot and Angua's relationship is under strain because of their concerns about not being able to have children, or producing a CompleteMonster if they do. This is never brought up in either Carrot's or Angua's point of view sections, and it's made pretty clear that the problem actually stem from a completely unrelated source [[note]]Angua's anxieties that she will become more like her family and eventually turn on her non-werewolf friends, and that she can't be accepted by other species because she's neither a human nor a wolf[[/note]]. While it doesn't make much sense to apply this reasoning to Carrot and Angua, it actually makes complete sense for Vimes and Sybil to ''think'' like this, since it's a projection of their own situation: Vimes is afraid that they've missed their chance to have children by marrying in middle age; and Sybil is afraid because she's just discovered that she's pregnant with her first child, and is unsure of how Vimes will react, or the effect it will have on her health.

Changed: 99

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* CompleteMonster: [[OurWerewolvesAreDifferent Wolfgang Von Uberwald]] is despicable. Before the book starts, he murders his little sister, Elsa, because she isn't a bimorphic werewolf and, as such, is [[FantasticRacism "impure"]]. He takes the werewolf tradition of [[HuntingTheMostDangerousGame hunting humans through a forest]] and adds the cruel twist of [[HopeSpot giving them the illusion that they've escaped]] before ripping them to shreds. He doesn't care about all the political power he and his family can gain through the civil unrest; he just likes being sadistic.

to:

* CompleteMonster: [[SavageWolves Wolfgang Von Uberwald]] is a {{Sadist}}ic [[OurWerewolvesAreDifferent Wolfgang Von Uberwald]] is despicable. werewolf]]. Before the book starts, he murders his little sister, Elsa, because she isn't a bimorphic werewolf and, as such, is [[FantasticRacism "impure"]]. "[[FantasticRacism impure]]." He takes the werewolf tradition of [[HuntingTheMostDangerousGame hunting humans through a forest]] forest]], and adds the cruel twist of [[HopeSpot giving them the illusion that they've escaped]] before ripping them to shreds. He doesn't care about all the political power he and his family can gain through the civil unrest; he just likes being sadistic.

Changed: 108

Removed: 67

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* [[MagnificentBastard Magnificent Bitch]]: Lady Margolotta. Serafine von Uberwald and [[spoiler:Dee]] might also count to a lesser extent. Also [[spoiler: Rhys]].
* TooCoolToLive: Ah, [[spoiler: Inigo]], we hardly knew you.
** [[spoiler: Gavin, Gavin, Gavin, Gavin]]... me, bitter? Naaaah...

to:

* [[MagnificentBastard Magnificent Bitch]]: Lady Margolotta. Margolotta and Serafine von Uberwald Uberwald[[spoiler:, Dee and [[spoiler:Dee]] might also count to a lesser extent. Also [[spoiler: Rhys]].
Rhys.]]
* TooCoolToLive: Ah, [[spoiler: Inigo]], we hardly knew you.
** [[spoiler: Gavin, Gavin, Gavin, Gavin]]... me, bitter? Naaaah...
Inigo Skimmer and Gavin.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*CompleteMonster: [[OurWerewolvesAreDifferent Wolfgang Von Uberwald]] is despicable. Before the book starts, he murders his little sister, Elsa, because she isn't a bimorphic werewolf and, as such, is [[FantasticRacism "impure"]]. He takes the werewolf tradition of [[HuntingTheMostDangerousGame hunting humans through a forest]] and adds the cruel twist of [[HopeSpot giving them the illusion that they've escaped]] before ripping them to shreds. He doesn't care about all the political power he and his family can gain through the civil unrest; he just likes being sadistic.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FridgeBrilliance: Vimes and Sybil both privately hold the opinion that Carrot and Angua's relationship is under strain because of their concerns about not being able to have children, or producing a CompleteMonster if they do. This is never brought up in either Carrot's or Angua's point of view sections, and it's made pretty clear that their problems actually stem from a completely unrelated source [[note]]Angua's anxieties that she will become more like her family and eventually turn on her non-werewolf friends, and that she can't be accepted by other species because she's neither a human nor a wolf[[/note]]. While it doesn't make much sense to apply this reasoning to Carrot and Angua, it actually makes complete sense for Vimes and Sybil to ''think'' like this, since it's a projection of their own situation: Vimes is afraid that they've missed their chance to have children by marrying in their late forties; and Sybil is afraid because she's just discovered that she's pregnant with her first child, and is unsure of how Vimes will react, or the effect it will have on her own health.

to:

* FridgeBrilliance: Vimes and Sybil both privately hold the opinion that Carrot and Angua's relationship is under strain because of their concerns about not being able to have children, or producing a CompleteMonster if they do. This is never brought up in either Carrot's or Angua's point of view sections, and it's made pretty clear that their problems the problem actually stem from a completely unrelated source [[note]]Angua's anxieties that she will become more like her family and eventually turn on her non-werewolf friends, and that she can't be accepted by other species because she's neither a human nor a wolf[[/note]]. While it doesn't make much sense to apply this reasoning to Carrot and Angua, it actually makes complete sense for Vimes and Sybil to ''think'' like this, since it's a projection of their own situation: Vimes is afraid that they've missed their chance to have children by marrying in their late forties; middle age; and Sybil is afraid because she's just discovered that she's pregnant with her first child, and is unsure of how Vimes will react, or the effect it will have on her own health.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FridgeBrilliance: Vimes and Sybil both privately hold the opinion that Carrot and Angua's relationship is under strain because of their concerns about not being able to have children, or producing a CompleteMonster if they do. This is never brought up in either Carrot's or Angua's point of view sections, and it's made pretty clear that their problems actually stem from a completely unrelated source [[note]]Angua's anxieties that she will become more like her family and eventually turn on her non-werewolf friends, and that she can't be accepted by other species because she's neither a human nor a wolf[[/note]]. While it doesn't make much sense to apply this reasoning to Carrot and Angua, then, it actually makes complete sense for Vimes and Sybil to ''think'' like this, since it's a projection of their own situation: Vimes is afraid that they've missed their chance to have children by marrying in their late forties; and Sybil is afraid because she's just discovered that she's pregnant with her first child, and is unsure of how Vimes will react, or the effect it will have on her own health.

to:

* FridgeBrilliance: Vimes and Sybil both privately hold the opinion that Carrot and Angua's relationship is under strain because of their concerns about not being able to have children, or producing a CompleteMonster if they do. This is never brought up in either Carrot's or Angua's point of view sections, and it's made pretty clear that their problems actually stem from a completely unrelated source [[note]]Angua's anxieties that she will become more like her family and eventually turn on her non-werewolf friends, and that she can't be accepted by other species because she's neither a human nor a wolf[[/note]]. While it doesn't make much sense to apply this reasoning to Carrot and Angua, then, it actually makes complete sense for Vimes and Sybil to ''think'' like this, since it's a projection of their own situation: Vimes is afraid that they've missed their chance to have children by marrying in their late forties; and Sybil is afraid because she's just discovered that she's pregnant with her first child, and is unsure of how Vimes will react, or the effect it will have on her own health.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FridgeBrilliance: Vimes and Sybil both privately hold the opinion that Carrot and Angua's relationship is under strain because of their concerns about not being able to have children, or producing a CompleteMonster if they do. This is never brought up in either Carrot's or Angua's point of view sections, and it's made pretty clear that their problems actually stem from a completely unrelated source [[note]]Angua's anxieties that she will become more like her family and eventually turn on her non-werewolf friends, and that she can't be accepted by other species because she's neither a human nor a wolf[[/note]]. While it doesn't make much sense to apply this reasoning to Carrot and Angua, then, it actually makes complete sense for Vimes and Sybil to ''think'' like this, since it's a projection of their own situation: while it's never stated, the events of the novel make it clear that Vimes is afraid that they've missed their chance to have children by marrying in their late forties; and that Sybil is afraid because she's just discovered that she's pregnant with her first child, and is unsure of how Vimes will react, or the effect it will have on her own health.

to:

* FridgeBrilliance: Vimes and Sybil both privately hold the opinion that Carrot and Angua's relationship is under strain because of their concerns about not being able to have children, or producing a CompleteMonster if they do. This is never brought up in either Carrot's or Angua's point of view sections, and it's made pretty clear that their problems actually stem from a completely unrelated source [[note]]Angua's anxieties that she will become more like her family and eventually turn on her non-werewolf friends, and that she can't be accepted by other species because she's neither a human nor a wolf[[/note]]. While it doesn't make much sense to apply this reasoning to Carrot and Angua, then, it actually makes complete sense for Vimes and Sybil to ''think'' like this, since it's a projection of their own situation: while it's never stated, the events of the novel make it clear that Vimes is afraid that they've missed their chance to have children by marrying in their late forties; and that Sybil is afraid because she's just discovered that she's pregnant with her first child, and is unsure of how Vimes will react, or the effect it will have on her own health.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FridgeBrilliance: Vimes and Sybil both privately hold the opinion that Carrot and Angua's relationship is under strain because of their concerns about not being able to have children, or producing a CompleteMonster if they do. This is never brought up in either Carrot's or Angua's point of view sections, and it's made pretty clear that their problems actually stem from a completely unrelated source: Angua's anxieties that she will become more like her family and eventually turn on her friends, and that she won't be accepted by either humans or wolves. While it doesn't make much sense to apply this reasoning to Carrot and Angua, then, it actually makes complete sense for Vimes and Sybil to ''think'' like this, since it's a projection of their own situation: while it's never stated, the events of the novel make it clear that Vimes is afraid that they've missed their chance to have children by marrying in their late forties; and that Sybil is afraid because she's just discovered that she's pregnant with her first child, and is unsure of how Vimes will react, or the effect it will have on her own health.

to:

* FridgeBrilliance: Vimes and Sybil both privately hold the opinion that Carrot and Angua's relationship is under strain because of their concerns about not being able to have children, or producing a CompleteMonster if they do. This is never brought up in either Carrot's or Angua's point of view sections, and it's made pretty clear that their problems actually stem from a completely unrelated source: Angua's source [[note]]Angua's anxieties that she will become more like her family and eventually turn on her non-werewolf friends, and that she won't can't be accepted by either humans or wolves.other species because she's neither a human nor a wolf[[/note]]. While it doesn't make much sense to apply this reasoning to Carrot and Angua, then, it actually makes complete sense for Vimes and Sybil to ''think'' like this, since it's a projection of their own situation: while it's never stated, the events of the novel make it clear that Vimes is afraid that they've missed their chance to have children by marrying in their late forties; and that Sybil is afraid because she's just discovered that she's pregnant with her first child, and is unsure of how Vimes will react, or the effect it will have on her own health.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FridgeBrilliance: Vimes and Sybil both privately hold the opinion that Carrot and Angua's relationship is under strain because of their concerns about not being able to have children, or producing a CompleteMonster if they do. This is never brought up in either Carrot's or Angua's point of view sections, and it's made pretty clear that their problems actually stem from a completely unrelated source. While it doesn't make much sense to apply this reasoning to Carrot and Angua, it actually makes complete sense for Vimes and Sybil to ''think'' like this, since it's a projection of their own situation: Vimes is afraid that they've missed their chance to have children by marrying in their late forties; and Sybil is afraid because she's just discovered that she's pregnant with her first child and is unsure of how Sam will react, or the effect it will have on her own health.

to:

* FridgeBrilliance: Vimes and Sybil both privately hold the opinion that Carrot and Angua's relationship is under strain because of their concerns about not being able to have children, or producing a CompleteMonster if they do. This is never brought up in either Carrot's or Angua's point of view sections, and it's made pretty clear that their problems actually stem from a completely unrelated source. source: Angua's anxieties that she will become more like her family and eventually turn on her friends, and that she won't be accepted by either humans or wolves. While it doesn't make much sense to apply this reasoning to Carrot and Angua, then, it actually makes complete sense for Vimes and Sybil to ''think'' like this, since it's a projection of their own situation: while it's never stated, the events of the novel make it clear that Vimes is afraid that they've missed their chance to have children by marrying in their late forties; and that Sybil is afraid because she's just discovered that she's pregnant with her first child child, and is unsure of how Sam Vimes will react, or the effect it will have on her own health.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* FridgeBrilliance: Vimes and Sybil both privately hold the opinion that Carrot and Angua's relationship is under strain because of their concerns about not being able to have children, or producing a CompleteMonster if they do. This is never brought up in either Carrot's or Angua's point of view sections, and it's made pretty clear that their problems actually stem from a completely unrelated source. While it doesn't make much sense to apply this reasoning to Carrot and Angua, it actually makes complete sense for Vimes and Sybil to ''think'' like this, since it's a projection of their own situation: Vimes is afraid that they've missed their chance to have children by marrying in their late forties; and Sybil is afraid because she's just discovered that she's pregnant with her first child and is unsure of how Sam will react, or the effect it will have on her own health.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* HilariousInHindsight: Inigo Skimmer is (effectively) an Assassin...[[AssassinsCreed with an obscenely dangerous sliding knife attached to his wrist.]]

to:

* HilariousInHindsight: Inigo Skimmer is (effectively) an Assassin...[[AssassinsCreed [[Franchise/AssassinsCreed with an obscenely dangerous sliding knife attached to his wrist.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** Could be CharacterDevelopment as well -- he was raised in a culture that doesn't really grasp irony and put great store by contracts and laws, but by now he's spent years working with Vimes (who manages to at least hold his own against ''Vetinari'' most of the time) and living with Angua (who's got a lot in common with Vimes, personality wise).

to:

*** Could be CharacterDevelopment as well -- he was raised in a culture that doesn't really grasp irony and put puts great store by contracts and laws, but by now at this point he's spent years working with Vimes (who manages to at least hold his own against ''Vetinari'' most of the time) and living with Angua (who's got a lot in common with Vimes, personality wise).wise). He's grown up.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*** Could be CharacterDevelopment as well -- he was raised in a culture that doesn't really grasp irony and put great store by contracts and laws, but by now he's spent years working with Vimes (who manages to at least hold his own against ''Vetinari'' most of the time) and living with Angua (who's got a lot in common with Vimes, personality wise).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* HilariousInHindsight: Inigo Skimmer is (effectively) an Assassin...[[AssassinsCreed with an obscenely dangerous sliding knife attached to his wrist.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: This is the book that most stresses the difficult question of whether Carrot is an honest idealist who has the laws of [[TheoryOfNarrativeCausality narrative causality]] in his favor, or more of a MagnificentBastard / ManipulativeBastard with ObfuscatingStupidity. For instance, [[spoiler: his LetsFightLikeGentlemen approach against a werewolf rather conveniently leads to romantic rival Gavin making a HeroicSacrifice.]]

to:

* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: This is the book that most stresses the difficult question of whether Carrot is an honest idealist who has the laws of [[TheoryOfNarrativeCausality narrative causality]] in his favor, or more of a MagnificentBastard / ManipulativeBastard with ObfuscatingStupidity. For instance, [[spoiler: his LetsFightLikeGentlemen approach against a werewolf rather conveniently leads to romantic rival Gavin making a HeroicSacrifice. Though, it must be noted, '''Gavin''' does the wolf-ish equivalent moments later, as if to underscore how similar the two really are.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FridgeHorror: Vimes, watching the clacks at work, thinks that its inventors must be making money hand over fist. [[GoingPostal The poor fellows]].

to:

* FridgeHorror: Vimes, watching the clacks at work, thinks that its inventors must be making money hand over fist. [[GoingPostal [[Discworld/GoingPostal The poor fellows]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* FridgeHorror: Vimes, watching the clacks at work, thinks that its inventors must be making money hand over fist. [[GoingPostal The poor fellows]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: This is the book that most stresses the difficult question of whether Carrot is an honest idealist who has the laws of [[TheoryOfNarrativeCausality narrative causality]] in his favor, or more of a MagnificentBastard / ManipulativeBastard with ObfuscatingStupidity. For instance, his LetsFightLikeGentlemen approach against a werewolf rather conveniently leads to romantic rival Gavin making a HeroicSacrifice.

to:

* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: This is the book that most stresses the difficult question of whether Carrot is an honest idealist who has the laws of [[TheoryOfNarrativeCausality narrative causality]] in his favor, or more of a MagnificentBastard / ManipulativeBastard with ObfuscatingStupidity. For instance, [[spoiler: his LetsFightLikeGentlemen approach against a werewolf rather conveniently leads to romantic rival Gavin making a HeroicSacrifice.]]

Top