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Trope was cut/disambiguated due to cleanup
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* EvilIsSexy: Black Swan seems to have developed this reputation.
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Updating Links
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** How Cap and Tony recruited ComicBook/{{Wolverine}} and Franchise/SpiderMan:
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** How Cap and Tony recruited ComicBook/{{Wolverine}} and Franchise/SpiderMan:ComicBook/SpiderMan:
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** Comicbook/{{Cyclops}} begins to take on an increasingly important role in the final art of the saga, with he and his Phoenix Egg supposedly set up as an important part of the resolution. [[spoiler: In reality, the Phoenix-empowered Cyclops is brutally (and CASUALLY) killed by God Doom in ''Secret Wars'' #4, without ever contributing much to the overall story.]]
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** Comicbook/{{Cyclops}} ComicBook/{{Cyclops}} begins to take on an increasingly important role in the final art of the saga, with he and his Phoenix Egg supposedly set up as an important part of the resolution. [[spoiler: In reality, the Phoenix-empowered Cyclops is brutally (and CASUALLY) killed by God Doom in ''Secret Wars'' #4, without ever contributing much to the overall story.]]
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** Hickman loves using this trope, on various populated areas on Earth many innocents die due to AMillionIsAStatistic, wether it's a an alien invasion, rebirth of new forms of life or arrival of EvilCounterpart of Avengers. But it's worst offender is destruction of college in The Last White Event storyline. Throught the whole issue we meet various people who may gain superpowers from White Event. Then we actually see hte person who got it was a [[Recurring Extra individual that also appeared without a single line]]. The power Kevin Connor got unfortunatelly resulted in massive explosion. 3203 people lost their lives due to it, and the only Avenger who tries in any way to confront a single individual that survived it is Captain America, as mentioned above in DesignatedHero. Not a single other Avenger seems to care to what just happened. The college gets a bit of mention in Starbrand's miniseries however.
to:
** Hickman loves using this trope, on various populated areas on Earth many innocents die due to AMillionIsAStatistic, wether it's a an alien invasion, rebirth of new forms of life or arrival of EvilCounterpart of Avengers. But it's worst offender is destruction of college in The Last White Event storyline. Throught the whole issue we meet various people who may gain superpowers from White Event. Then we actually see hte person who got it was a [[Recurring Extra [[RecurringExtra individual that also appeared without a single line]]. The power Kevin Connor got unfortunatelly resulted in massive explosion. 3203 people lost their lives due to it, and the only Avenger who tries in any way to confront a single individual that survived it is Captain America, as mentioned above in DesignatedHero. Not a single other Avenger seems to care to what just happened. The college gets a bit of mention in Starbrand's miniseries however.
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Moving to Trivia
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* AuthorsSavingThrow:
** The "Time Runs Out" story features Thor being unable to lift the hammer of Thorr, which can only be wielded by those ''un''worthy of using Mjolnir. Thor had been made unworthy of Mjolnir by Jason Aaron a short time before, which faced ''incredible'' backlash.
** Also during "Time Runs Out", Hickman undoes Ultimate Reed Richards' not-terribly-well received HeelFaceTurn (given the dude had committed outright genocide) with a simple "nope, faking it. I'm a bastard and I'm not going back."
** As for the ComicBook/UltimateMarvel universe, Hickman also restored S.H.I.E.L.D., which had been disbanded after the events of ''ComicBook/CataclysmTheUltimatesLastStand''. This didn't show up in time at any of the Ultimate Marvel ongoing titles, but explains why SHIELD was fighting in the first ''Secret Wars'' issue.
** And the reveal in Bendis' Illuminati series that the Beyonder is actually a mutant Inhuman, which Hickman and his editor, Tom Brevoort, have both said in interviews is just the Beyonder messing with the Illuminati's heads. Given that the Bendis story was something of a base-breaker to begin with, this particular retcon was one that many fans were okay with.
** The "Time Runs Out" story features Thor being unable to lift the hammer of Thorr, which can only be wielded by those ''un''worthy of using Mjolnir. Thor had been made unworthy of Mjolnir by Jason Aaron a short time before, which faced ''incredible'' backlash.
** Also during "Time Runs Out", Hickman undoes Ultimate Reed Richards' not-terribly-well received HeelFaceTurn (given the dude had committed outright genocide) with a simple "nope, faking it. I'm a bastard and I'm not going back."
** As for the ComicBook/UltimateMarvel universe, Hickman also restored S.H.I.E.L.D., which had been disbanded after the events of ''ComicBook/CataclysmTheUltimatesLastStand''. This didn't show up in time at any of the Ultimate Marvel ongoing titles, but explains why SHIELD was fighting in the first ''Secret Wars'' issue.
** And the reveal in Bendis' Illuminati series that the Beyonder is actually a mutant Inhuman, which Hickman and his editor, Tom Brevoort, have both said in interviews is just the Beyonder messing with the Illuminati's heads. Given that the Bendis story was something of a base-breaker to begin with, this particular retcon was one that many fans were okay with.
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* IdiotPlot: One of the main points of criticism for the run is how the main conflict could have been solved had they ''not'' kept it a secret. If the Illuminati reached out to the Marvel U's larger scientific community, to other magicians and sorcerers, and every other super-team, as soon as they found out about the problem, they would have had ''far'' more resources at their disposal to actually stop it, or at the very least more time to launch an evacuation.
** They specifically get called out for this by the Mighty Avengers in issues of that title showing the team's participation in ''Time Runs Out'' from their point of view.
** They specifically get called out for this by the Mighty Avengers in issues of that title showing the team's participation in ''Time Runs Out'' from their point of view.
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* InfferedHolocaust:
** Hickman loves using this trope, on various populated areas on Earth many innocents die due to MillionIsAStatistic, wether it's a an alien invasion, rebirth of new forms of life or arrival of EvilCounterpart of Avengers. But it's worst offender is destruction of college in The Last White Event storyline. Throught the whole issue we meet various people who may gain superpowers from White Event. Then we actually see hte person who got it was a [[BackgroundCharacter individual that also appeared without a single line]]. The power Kevin Connor got unfortunatelly resulted in massive explosion. 3203 people lost their lives due to it, and the only Avenger who tries in any way to confront a single individual that survived it is Captain America, as mentioned above in DesignatedHero. Not a single other Avenger seems to care to what just happened. The college gets a bit of mention in Starbrand's miniseries however.
** Hickman loves using this trope, on various populated areas on Earth many innocents die due to MillionIsAStatistic, wether it's a an alien invasion, rebirth of new forms of life or arrival of EvilCounterpart of Avengers. But it's worst offender is destruction of college in The Last White Event storyline. Throught the whole issue we meet various people who may gain superpowers from White Event. Then we actually see hte person who got it was a [[BackgroundCharacter individual that also appeared without a single line]]. The power Kevin Connor got unfortunatelly resulted in massive explosion. 3203 people lost their lives due to it, and the only Avenger who tries in any way to confront a single individual that survived it is Captain America, as mentioned above in DesignatedHero. Not a single other Avenger seems to care to what just happened. The college gets a bit of mention in Starbrand's miniseries however.
to:
* InfferedHolocaust:
InferredHolocaust:
** Hickman loves using this trope, on various populated areas on Earth many innocents die due toMillionIsAStatistic, AMillionIsAStatistic, wether it's a an alien invasion, rebirth of new forms of life or arrival of EvilCounterpart of Avengers. But it's worst offender is destruction of college in The Last White Event storyline. Throught the whole issue we meet various people who may gain superpowers from White Event. Then we actually see hte person who got it was a [[BackgroundCharacter [[Recurring Extra individual that also appeared without a single line]]. The power Kevin Connor got unfortunatelly resulted in massive explosion. 3203 people lost their lives due to it, and the only Avenger who tries in any way to confront a single individual that survived it is Captain America, as mentioned above in DesignatedHero. Not a single other Avenger seems to care to what just happened. The college gets a bit of mention in Starbrand's miniseries however.
** Hickman loves using this trope, on various populated areas on Earth many innocents die due to
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Added DiffLines:
* InfferedHolocaust:
**Hickman loves using this trope, on various populated areas on Earth many innocents die due to MillionIsAStatistic, wether it's a an alien invasion, rebirth of new forms of life or arrival of EvilCounterpart of Avengers. But it's worst offender is destruction of college in The Last White Event storyline. Throught the whole issue we meet various people who may gain superpowers from White Event. Then we actually see hte person who got it was a [[BackgroundCharacter individual that also appeared without a single line]]. The power Kevin Connor got unfortunatelly resulted in massive explosion. 3203 people lost their lives due to it, and the only Avenger who tries in any way to confront a single individual that survived it is Captain America, as mentioned above in DesignatedHero. Not a single other Avenger seems to care to what just happened. The college gets a bit of mention in Starbrand's miniseries however.
**And that's not even getting to TRILLIONS of lives lost during various incursions. Thankfully, these worlds gets restored later. Most of them, at least...
**Averted in Infinity event, where millions suffered because of Thanos's invasion on Earth, which Avengers later help to rebuild buildings.
**Hickman loves using this trope, on various populated areas on Earth many innocents die due to MillionIsAStatistic, wether it's a an alien invasion, rebirth of new forms of life or arrival of EvilCounterpart of Avengers. But it's worst offender is destruction of college in The Last White Event storyline. Throught the whole issue we meet various people who may gain superpowers from White Event. Then we actually see hte person who got it was a [[BackgroundCharacter individual that also appeared without a single line]]. The power Kevin Connor got unfortunatelly resulted in massive explosion. 3203 people lost their lives due to it, and the only Avenger who tries in any way to confront a single individual that survived it is Captain America, as mentioned above in DesignatedHero. Not a single other Avenger seems to care to what just happened. The college gets a bit of mention in Starbrand's miniseries however.
**And that's not even getting to TRILLIONS of lives lost during various incursions. Thankfully, these worlds gets restored later. Most of them, at least...
**Averted in Infinity event, where millions suffered because of Thanos's invasion on Earth, which Avengers later help to rebuild buildings.
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Updating Link
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* ContinuityLockOut: The story started solid in ''New Avengers'': incursions take place between earth and an alternate universe earth, and end with either of them destroyed. In each incursion, heroes have to do something to prevent the universe's destruction. Easy, right? But then the story starts branching in all directions and introducing many, many concepts. By the end of it, many are waiting for the final incursion to come at last and proceed to Secret Wars. Even then, you kind of do need to know something about the original ''ComicBook/SecretWars'' event to understand the significance of the Ivory Kings [[spoiler:being the Beyonders]] since the first crossover is essentially being reinterpreted and recast as an out-there Lovecraftian post-modernist science-fiction narrative.
to:
* ContinuityLockOut: The story started solid in ''New Avengers'': incursions take place between earth and an alternate universe earth, and end with either of them destroyed. In each incursion, heroes have to do something to prevent the universe's destruction. Easy, right? But then the story starts branching in all directions and introducing many, many concepts. By the end of it, many are waiting for the final incursion to come at last and proceed to Secret Wars. Even then, you kind of do need to know something about the original ''ComicBook/SecretWars'' ''ComicBook/SecretWars1984'' event to understand the significance of the Ivory Kings [[spoiler:being the Beyonders]] since the first crossover is essentially being reinterpreted and recast as an out-there Lovecraftian post-modernist science-fiction narrative.
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* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: As the story goes on, the sheer amount of KickTheDog and ShootTheDog moments the heroes perpetrate combined with a lot of ConflictBall going around makes it hard for a lot of readers to invest in what's going on, especially since ''ComicBook/SecretWars2015'' makes the death of the multiverse a ForegoneConclusion.
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* WhatAnIdiot:
** In ''Avengers'' #34, the Time Gem has caused the Avengers to jump uncontrollably into various times in the future. Captain America, Black Widow, and Starbrand arrive in the 71st century. There they meet the apparently immortal Franklin Richards, who they know as a kid in their own time. Franklin asks Cap whether he would like to know what's causing the Incursions that threaten the Earth and the entire multiverse in the 21st century, and who's behind them?\\
'''You'd expect:''' Cap to say, "Yes, please tell me all about it!" Gaining this information would be massively important, because it might allow the Avengers to stop the Incursions and save the Earth and the multiverse. Also, Cap knows that Time Gem might transfer them into the future at any time without any warning... So the time they have available in the 71st century is limited, and hence an intelligent leader like Captain America should realize this time should be spent in learning whatever they can about the Incursions.\\
'''Instead:''' Cap doesn't want Franklin to answer those questions yet, instead he wants Franklin to tell him how to stop Tony Stark. Cap is angry at Tony and the Illuminati for trying to stop the Incursions through various morally questionable ways, and for erasing Cap's memory about this so he wouldn't oppose them. Franklin tells Cap he can fight the Illuminati but he can't fight fate, and that that things will only get worse if he fights them, and the Incursions will continue. Before Franklin has time to tell them anything else, the Time Gem once again transfers the Avengers away before they can learn what's causing the Incursions and who's behind them. After the Avengers return to their own time, the Incursions continue, and eventually [[spoiler:the multiverse is destroyed]]. So the information Cap got from Franklin was useless, while the information he didn't bother to get because he was so mad at Tony might've helped the Avengers to [[spoiler:save the multiverse]]. Great job, Cap!
** In ''New Avengers'' #23, an Incursion is threatening to destroy the 616 universe and another universe that is coming to contact with it. This could be stopped by destroying the Earth in either of those universe, but having just seen [[spoiler:Namor do this to stop the previous incursion]], the other members of the Illuminati can't find it in themselves to do so. So they're content to just wait for their universe to be destroyed. Reed Richards gathers his family, including his two young kids, so that he's with them when everything dies.\\
'''You'd expect:''' Even if he can't morally justify himself to destroy another Earth in order to save his, you'd think that Reed would at least do something to save his family. He has the knowledge and means to travel to the other universes within the multiverse. He also knows how to travel in time. So he could easily send his family to another universe, preferably one where the Earth has already been destroyed, so the Incursions don't threaten them. Or he could send his family far to the past of the 616 Earth, where they could live their full lives long before the Incursions ever start. At the very least, you'd think he would ''tell his family what is about to happen''. Even if his own moral code says he should do nothing and let everyone (including his family) die, maybe Sue doesn't feel the same way, so shouldn't be allowed to make her own choices? Maybe ''she'' would want to do anything she can to save their kids?\\
'''Instead:''' Reed doesn't do anything and doesn't tell anyone about the end of the world, even when Sue keeps asking what's wrong with him. Thankfully [[spoiler:Namor once again has the backbone to do what the other Illuminati couldn't, so the two universes survive]].
** Over in the Ultimate Universe, Ultimate Nick Fury decides to trust the Maker, also known as Reed Richards, who has previously tried to kill the Ultimates several times, wiped out entire countries, and the Asgardians, and tried to personally kill Nick himself. Surprise, Ultimate Reed is out for himself.
** In ''Avengers'' #34, the Time Gem has caused the Avengers to jump uncontrollably into various times in the future. Captain America, Black Widow, and Starbrand arrive in the 71st century. There they meet the apparently immortal Franklin Richards, who they know as a kid in their own time. Franklin asks Cap whether he would like to know what's causing the Incursions that threaten the Earth and the entire multiverse in the 21st century, and who's behind them?\\
'''You'd expect:''' Cap to say, "Yes, please tell me all about it!" Gaining this information would be massively important, because it might allow the Avengers to stop the Incursions and save the Earth and the multiverse. Also, Cap knows that Time Gem might transfer them into the future at any time without any warning... So the time they have available in the 71st century is limited, and hence an intelligent leader like Captain America should realize this time should be spent in learning whatever they can about the Incursions.\\
'''Instead:''' Cap doesn't want Franklin to answer those questions yet, instead he wants Franklin to tell him how to stop Tony Stark. Cap is angry at Tony and the Illuminati for trying to stop the Incursions through various morally questionable ways, and for erasing Cap's memory about this so he wouldn't oppose them. Franklin tells Cap he can fight the Illuminati but he can't fight fate, and that that things will only get worse if he fights them, and the Incursions will continue. Before Franklin has time to tell them anything else, the Time Gem once again transfers the Avengers away before they can learn what's causing the Incursions and who's behind them. After the Avengers return to their own time, the Incursions continue, and eventually [[spoiler:the multiverse is destroyed]]. So the information Cap got from Franklin was useless, while the information he didn't bother to get because he was so mad at Tony might've helped the Avengers to [[spoiler:save the multiverse]]. Great job, Cap!
** In ''New Avengers'' #23, an Incursion is threatening to destroy the 616 universe and another universe that is coming to contact with it. This could be stopped by destroying the Earth in either of those universe, but having just seen [[spoiler:Namor do this to stop the previous incursion]], the other members of the Illuminati can't find it in themselves to do so. So they're content to just wait for their universe to be destroyed. Reed Richards gathers his family, including his two young kids, so that he's with them when everything dies.\\
'''You'd expect:''' Even if he can't morally justify himself to destroy another Earth in order to save his, you'd think that Reed would at least do something to save his family. He has the knowledge and means to travel to the other universes within the multiverse. He also knows how to travel in time. So he could easily send his family to another universe, preferably one where the Earth has already been destroyed, so the Incursions don't threaten them. Or he could send his family far to the past of the 616 Earth, where they could live their full lives long before the Incursions ever start. At the very least, you'd think he would ''tell his family what is about to happen''. Even if his own moral code says he should do nothing and let everyone (including his family) die, maybe Sue doesn't feel the same way, so shouldn't be allowed to make her own choices? Maybe ''she'' would want to do anything she can to save their kids?\\
'''Instead:''' Reed doesn't do anything and doesn't tell anyone about the end of the world, even when Sue keeps asking what's wrong with him. Thankfully [[spoiler:Namor once again has the backbone to do what the other Illuminati couldn't, so the two universes survive]].
** Over in the Ultimate Universe, Ultimate Nick Fury decides to trust the Maker, also known as Reed Richards, who has previously tried to kill the Ultimates several times, wiped out entire countries, and the Asgardians, and tried to personally kill Nick himself. Surprise, Ultimate Reed is out for himself.
to:
* WhatAnIdiot:
** In ''Avengers'' #34,TooBleakStoppedCaring: As the Time Gem has caused story goes on, the Avengers to jump uncontrollably into various times in sheer amount of KickTheDog and ShootTheDog moments the future. Captain America, Black Widow, and Starbrand arrive heroes perpetrate combined with a lot of ConflictBall going around makes it hard for a lot of readers to invest in the 71st century. There they meet the apparently immortal Franklin Richards, who they know as a kid in their own time. Franklin asks Cap whether he would like to know what's causing going on, especially since ''ComicBook/SecretWars2015'' makes the Incursions that threaten death of the Earth and the entire multiverse in the 21st century, and who's behind them?\\
'''You'd expect:''' Cap to say, "Yes, please tell me all about it!" Gaining this information would be massively important, because it might allow the Avengers to stop the Incursions and save the Earth and the multiverse. Also, Cap knows that Time Gem might transfer them into the future at any time without any warning... So the time they have available in the 71st century is limited, and hence an intelligent leader like Captain America should realize this time should be spent in learning whatever they can about the Incursions.\\
'''Instead:''' Cap doesn't want Franklin to answer those questions yet, instead he wants Franklin to tell him how to stop Tony Stark. Cap is angry at Tony and the Illuminati for trying to stop the Incursions through various morally questionable ways, and for erasing Cap's memory about this so he wouldn't oppose them. Franklin tells Cap he can fight the Illuminati but he can't fight fate, and that that things will only get worse if he fights them, and the Incursions will continue. Before Franklin has time to tell them anything else, the Time Gem once again transfers the Avengers away before they can learn what's causing the Incursions and who's behind them. After the Avengers return to their own time, the Incursions continue, and eventually [[spoiler:the multiverse is destroyed]]. So the information Cap got from Franklin was useless, while the information he didn't bother to get because he was so mad at Tony might've helped the Avengers to [[spoiler:save the multiverse]]. Great job, Cap!
** In ''New Avengers'' #23, an Incursion is threatening to destroy the 616 universe and another universe that is coming to contact with it. This could be stopped by destroying the Earth in either of those universe, but having just seen [[spoiler:Namor do this to stop the previous incursion]], the other members of the Illuminati can't find it in themselves to do so. So they're content to just wait for their universe to be destroyed. Reed Richards gathers his family, including his two young kids, so that he's with them when everything dies.\\
'''You'd expect:''' Even if he can't morally justify himself to destroy another Earth in order to save his, you'd think that Reed would at least do something to save his family. He has the knowledge and means to travel to the other universes within the multiverse. He also knows how to travel in time. So he could easily send his family to another universe, preferably one where the Earth has already been destroyed, so the Incursions don't threaten them. Or he could send his family far to the past of the 616 Earth, where they could live their full lives long before the Incursions ever start. At the very least, you'd think he would ''tell his family what is about to happen''. Even if his own moral code says he should do nothing and let everyone (including his family) die, maybe Sue doesn't feel the same way, so shouldn't be allowed to make her own choices? Maybe ''she'' would want to do anything she can to save their kids?\\
'''Instead:''' Reed doesn't do anything and doesn't tell anyone about the end of the world, even when Sue keeps asking what's wrong with him. Thankfully [[spoiler:Namor once again has the backbone to do what the other Illuminati couldn't, so the two universes survive]].
** Over in the Ultimate Universe, Ultimate Nick Fury decides to trust the Maker, also known as Reed Richards, who has previously tried to kill the Ultimates several times, wiped out entire countries, and the Asgardians, and tried to personally kill Nick himself. Surprise, Ultimate Reed is out for himself.a ForegoneConclusion.
** In ''Avengers'' #34,
'''You'd expect:''' Cap to say, "Yes, please tell me all about it!" Gaining this information would be massively important, because it might allow the Avengers to stop the Incursions and save the Earth and the multiverse. Also, Cap knows that Time Gem might transfer them into the future at any time without any warning... So the time they have available in the 71st century is limited, and hence an intelligent leader like Captain America should realize this time should be spent in learning whatever they can about the Incursions.\\
'''Instead:''' Cap doesn't want Franklin to answer those questions yet, instead he wants Franklin to tell him how to stop Tony Stark. Cap is angry at Tony and the Illuminati for trying to stop the Incursions through various morally questionable ways, and for erasing Cap's memory about this so he wouldn't oppose them. Franklin tells Cap he can fight the Illuminati but he can't fight fate, and that that things will only get worse if he fights them, and the Incursions will continue. Before Franklin has time to tell them anything else, the Time Gem once again transfers the Avengers away before they can learn what's causing the Incursions and who's behind them. After the Avengers return to their own time, the Incursions continue, and eventually [[spoiler:the multiverse is destroyed]]. So the information Cap got from Franklin was useless, while the information he didn't bother to get because he was so mad at Tony might've helped the Avengers to [[spoiler:save the multiverse]]. Great job, Cap!
** In ''New Avengers'' #23, an Incursion is threatening to destroy the 616 universe and another universe that is coming to contact with it. This could be stopped by destroying the Earth in either of those universe, but having just seen [[spoiler:Namor do this to stop the previous incursion]], the other members of the Illuminati can't find it in themselves to do so. So they're content to just wait for their universe to be destroyed. Reed Richards gathers his family, including his two young kids, so that he's with them when everything dies.\\
'''You'd expect:''' Even if he can't morally justify himself to destroy another Earth in order to save his, you'd think that Reed would at least do something to save his family. He has the knowledge and means to travel to the other universes within the multiverse. He also knows how to travel in time. So he could easily send his family to another universe, preferably one where the Earth has already been destroyed, so the Incursions don't threaten them. Or he could send his family far to the past of the 616 Earth, where they could live their full lives long before the Incursions ever start. At the very least, you'd think he would ''tell his family what is about to happen''. Even if his own moral code says he should do nothing and let everyone (including his family) die, maybe Sue doesn't feel the same way, so shouldn't be allowed to make her own choices? Maybe ''she'' would want to do anything she can to save their kids?\\
'''Instead:''' Reed doesn't do anything and doesn't tell anyone about the end of the world, even when Sue keeps asking what's wrong with him. Thankfully [[spoiler:Namor once again has the backbone to do what the other Illuminati couldn't, so the two universes survive]].
** Over in the Ultimate Universe, Ultimate Nick Fury decides to trust the Maker, also known as Reed Richards, who has previously tried to kill the Ultimates several times, wiped out entire countries, and the Asgardians, and tried to personally kill Nick himself. Surprise, Ultimate Reed is out for himself.
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* ArcFatigue: It takes a ''very'' long time for exactly who's behind everything to be explained. It takes a while for the heroes to start taking Rabum Alal seriously as anything other than gibberish. Not to mention the reveal of just who this Rabum Alal even is doesn't happen until the very ''end'' of the storyline.
* ArchivePanic: Hickman's storyline is very intricate and he tends to cast, pick up, and scatter StoryBreadcrumbs to the tiniest grain. Seeds for his run were first placed in his run on ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'' (more specifically, ''Dark Reign: Fantastic Four'' a tie-in to ''ComicBook/DarkReign'' before his run on the FF) and only finally resolve itself in ''Secret Wars'' and to get the full experience you will need to read all 40 issues of his run on ''The Avengers'', all 33 issues of his run on ''New Avengers'', ''Infinity'' and its tie-ins. Eventually he includes the Maker from the ComicBook/UltimateMarvel universe, so you should also be familiar with his run in ''[[ComicBook/TheUltimates Ultimate Comics: The Ultimates]]'' as well. At the very least, his run on ''New Avengers'' is far more central to the plot of his overall MythArc than the other stuff.
* AssPull: Namor and the Cabal have been trapped in a mapmaker world, which will soon blow up, and they have no way to escape it... but wait! there is a second incursion taking place in that planet ''at the same time''! They can escape to the third earth by using it! A strange mechanic to the incursions that raises several questions, but which end up unanswered: it was never addressed or discussed before, neither at a later point. It was just a convenient way to keep the Cabal in the game.
* AudienceAlienatingPremise: A lot of people are quick to turn away from ''New Avengers'', mostly because of how morally reprehensible the main characters are. Not helping is that there are other groups being more productive about the problem. When ''Doctor Doom'' is doing a better job of doing that, well, so much for the smartest 'heroes' on the planet.
* AuthorsSavingThrow:
** The "Time Runs Out" story features Thor being unable to lift the hammer of Thorr, which can only be wielded by those ''un''worthy of using Mjolnir. Thor had been made unworthy of Mjolnir by Jason Aaron a short time before, which faced ''incredible'' backlash.
** Also during "Time Runs Out", Hickman undoes Ultimate Reed Richards' not-terribly-well received HeelFaceTurn (given the dude had committed outright genocide) with a simple "nope, faking it. I'm a bastard and I'm not going back."
** As for the ComicBook/UltimateMarvel universe, Hickman also restored S.H.I.E.L.D., which had been disbanded after the events of ''ComicBook/CataclysmTheUltimatesLastStand''. This didn't show up in time at any of the Ultimate Marvel ongoing titles, but explains why SHIELD was fighting in the first ''Secret Wars'' issue.
** And the reveal in Bendis' Illuminati series that the Beyonder is actually a mutant Inhuman, which Hickman and his editor, Tom Brevoort, have both said in interviews is just the Beyonder messing with the Illuminati's heads. Given that the Bendis story was something of a base-breaker to begin with, this particular retcon was one that many fans were okay with.
* BrokenBase: The run in general. Either it's an epic storyline, or pointlessly dull and filled with needless amounts of PurpleProse. Either many consider it to be an all-time defining run, or something so drastically different in tone, genre, and theme from what many consider to be ''The Avengers'' that some believe it to be an InNameOnly take on the mythos and characters. Incidentally the latter point is used by both defenders and detractors. Detractors use it to slag it as out-of-character while defenders commend on Hickman's ability to overturn familiarity with iconic characters and totally change the way people saw them.
* ContinuityLockOut: The story started solid in ''New Avengers'': incursions take place between earth and an alternate universe earth, and end with either of them destroyed. In each incursion, heroes have to do something to prevent the universe's destruction. Easy, right? But then the story starts branching in all directions and introducing many, many concepts. By the end of it, many are waiting for the final incursion to come at last and proceed to Secret Wars. Even then, you kind of do need to know something about the original ''ComicBook/SecretWars'' event to understand the significance of the Ivory Kings [[spoiler:being the Beyonders]] since the first crossover is essentially being reinterpreted and recast as an out-there Lovecraftian post-modernist science-fiction narrative.
* CreatorsPet: A criticism some have of Hickman is that he only focuses on characters he had extended plans for (Reed Richards and Black Panther), while others are fairly neglected overall (Beast in particular, though Iron Man and Black Bolt got it as well), due to Marvel having other plans for them.
* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: As the story goes on, the sheer amount of KickTheDog and ShootTheDog moments the heroes perpetrate combined with a lot of ConflictBall going around makes it hard for a lot of readers to invest in what's going on, especially since ''ComicBook/SecretWars2015'' makes the death of the multiverse a ForegoneConclusion.
* DesignatedHero: The Avengers (except Captain America) don't come off terribly well in their initial dealings with Starbrand. He's a terrified person who's just been given superpowers without warning, in a way that has killed everyone in the college he attends and works at, leaving him surrounded by charred corpses. So aside from Cap trying to reassure him and calm him down in case he starts breaking things, the other Avengers ''attack'' him. Two issues later, he accidentally kills a living brain organism when it attacks him in a panicked rage, so the Avengers beat the living daylights out of him.
* EnsembleDarkhorse:
** Ex Nihilo, for his generally bombastic nature. Not bad for someone who started off bombing cities.
** Smasher.
** The entire Great Society is a herd of dark horses. Consisting of Sun God, The Rider, The Norn, The Jovian, Boundless and Dr. Spectrum, they are another homage to the Justice League and the heroes of DC, they are presented as a moral team and badasses in their own right.
*** Sun God especially, in part for being an {{expy}} of Superman, and for standing out against the GreyAndGrayMorality of New Avengers.
** In the same vein, Sunspot got a bit of this by being the OnlySaneMan and inadvertently solving the threat of AIM by simply ''buying them out.'' YMMV given his status as CreatorsPet.
* EvilIsSexy: Black Swan seems to have developed this reputation.
* SugarWiki/FunnyMoments:
** How Cap and Tony recruited ComicBook/{{Wolverine}} and Franchise/SpiderMan:
--->'''Tony''': We have beer.\\
'''Wolverine''': ''Sold''.\\
'''Tony''': We have money.\\
'''Spider-Man''' [''hugging him'']: ''Oh, thank God''.
** The barbecue in Issue #24, cooked by Thor, no less.
--->'''Thor:''' I have prepared steaks, hamburgers and veggie burgers. Furthermore, I have grilled the hot dog, though the quality of this meat seems ... questionable -- ''this'' I cannot recommend. I also attempted a lobster, but the beast defeated me.
--->'''Smasher:''' Yeah. I'll have a hot dog.
--->'''Cannonball:''' Me too.
--->'''Thor:''' ''[with a bemused expression]'' Such bravery. Two dogs. ''Each''.
** Maximus the Mad telling Thanos it's no wonder Nick Fury doesn't trust him. "You do look extremely suspicious."
* HilariousInHindsight: Something that detractors of his run often said was that, while Hickman made the comic ''feel'' epic, StatusQuoIsGod and it would all amount to nothing in the end... Come 2015, and it turns out his run was the set-up to ''ComicBook/SecretWars2015'', which is Marvel's biggest event in ''years'', and did indeed have an impact on the Marvel Universe.
* HoYay:
** Many have remarked on Hyperion and Thor's particularly bro-mantic interactions. To say nothing of their raising the zebra-kids together (and the kids call Hyperion "dad" anyway).
** Sun God doesn't go berserk as his team is destroyed, but when the Rider, Wayne, dies. It helps that the two are very clearly Expies of Superman and Batman, respectively, who are the poster boys for the trope in comics.
* IdiotPlot: One of the main points of criticism for the run is how the main conflict could have been solved had they ''not'' kept it a secret. If the Illuminati reached out to the Marvel U's larger scientific community, to other magicians and sorcerers, and every other super-team, as soon as they found out about the problem, they would have had ''far'' more resources at their disposal to actually stop it, or at the very least more time to launch an evacuation.
** They specifically get called out for this by the Mighty Avengers in issues of that title showing the team's participation in ''Time Runs Out'' from their point of view.
* MoralEventHorizon: The Illuminati wiping Steve's memory. Though it could also be CruelToBeKind.
** Strange either already crossed it when he offered to sell his entire soul for power [[spoiler:before finding out that it was already bound to another demon]] or at the latest when [[spoiler: he slaughtered the Great Society with those dark powers]].
** While one could make an argument in favor of Namor for saving Earth 616 via [[spoiler: destroying the homeworld of the Great Society]], he most definitely crossed it after gloating right in T'Challa's face how he enjoyed destroying Wakanda ''twice'' and '''regrets''' that so many are left alive. Although he was mourning the death of his own people the second time, which Shuri is directly responsible for, so he may not have meant it.
*** IF the previous wasn't enough [[spoiler:his releasing and founding of the Cabal, which leads to the complete destruction of Wakanda, Shuri's death and the cruel destruction of a number of other worlds]] pretty much seals it for him, particularly with the other characters.
* {{Narm}}:
** It's a bit difficult to take Black Swam's proclamation that "everything dies" seriously when no-one actually manages to die for quite a long while in. The constant repetition, rephrasing, and variation of Reed Richards' opening "Everything dies" monologue complete with an all back rectangular panel with different characters and AU versions, starts becoming funny after a while.
** 'One was life one was death' gets repeated a bit too often as well.
** How long does it take Doctor Strange to reach the DespairEventHorizon? Three issues, and one screw-up, before he completely folds like a damp cloth.
** The final fight between Old Man Captain America and Superior Iron Man is so over the top angsty and depressing that it becomes hilarious. By the time the Helicarrier drops, it moves into Tex Avery levels of absurdity.
*** Not helping is that the reason Old Man Rodgers has hunted Tony down and is literally beating him to death is because... Tony ''lied'' to him.
* NightmareFuel: Reed Richard's reveal in ''Time Runs Out'' that without any warning, [[spoiler:almost all of the multiverse has just vanished overnight.]]
* OlderThanTheyThink: Having a captive Bruce Banner and throwing him into a disaster area, so that he hulks out and deal with the threat (basically turing Hulk into a weapon), had already been done in the first miniseries of ''ComicBook/TheUltimates'', and many other times in the ComicBook/UltimateMarvel universe.
* SpiritualLicensee: A few fans have suggested that the character choices, style, and scale are quite reminiscent of ''ComicBook/LegionOfSuperheroes''. Given that Hickman's an avowed fan of the franchise, it's not surprising.
* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter:
** Smasher gets a whole issue introducing her, explaining her backstory and nature (Legacy character, member of the Shi'ar Imperial Guard). Then... she mostly just stands around in the background, gets an out-of-nowhere romance with Cannonball in ''Infinity'', and during ''Time Runs Out'' is demoted to being a mom. That's it.
** During ''Time Runs Out'', Captain Britain is part of the Illuminati. His role is to just stand around in the background, then deliver one bit of exposition on how the Captain Britain Corps have had [[DroppedABridgeOnHim A Bridge Dropped On Them]], before getting shuffled offstage.
** Comicbook/{{Cyclops}} begins to take on an increasingly important role in the final art of the saga, with he and his Phoenix Egg supposedly set up as an important part of the resolution. [[spoiler: In reality, the Phoenix-empowered Cyclops is brutally (and CASUALLY) killed by God Doom in ''Secret Wars'' #4, without ever contributing much to the overall story.]]
* WhatAnIdiot:
** In ''Avengers'' #34, the Time Gem has caused the Avengers to jump uncontrollably into various times in the future. Captain America, Black Widow, and Starbrand arrive in the 71st century. There they meet the apparently immortal Franklin Richards, who they know as a kid in their own time. Franklin asks Cap whether he would like to know what's causing the Incursions that threaten the Earth and the entire multiverse in the 21st century, and who's behind them?\\
'''You'd expect:''' Cap to say, "Yes, please tell me all about it!" Gaining this information would be massively important, because it might allow the Avengers to stop the Incursions and save the Earth and the multiverse. Also, Cap knows that Time Gem might transfer them into the future at any time without any warning... So the time they have available in the 71st century is limited, and hence an intelligent leader like Captain America should realize this time should be spent in learning whatever they can about the Incursions.\\
'''Instead:''' Cap doesn't want Franklin to answer those questions yet, instead he wants Franklin to tell him how to stop Tony Stark. Cap is angry at Tony and the Illuminati for trying to stop the Incursions through various morally questionable ways, and for erasing Cap's memory about this so he wouldn't oppose them. Franklin tells Cap he can fight the Illuminati but he can't fight fate, and that that things will only get worse if he fights them, and the Incursions will continue. Before Franklin has time to tell them anything else, the Time Gem once again transfers the Avengers away before they can learn what's causing the Incursions and who's behind them. After the Avengers return to their own time, the Incursions continue, and eventually [[spoiler:the multiverse is destroyed]]. So the information Cap got from Franklin was useless, while the information he didn't bother to get because he was so mad at Tony might've helped the Avengers to [[spoiler:save the multiverse]]. Great job, Cap!
** In ''New Avengers'' #23, an Incursion is threatening to destroy the 616 universe and another universe that is coming to contact with it. This could be stopped by destroying the Earth in either of those universe, but having just seen [[spoiler:Namor do this to stop the previous incursion]], the other members of the Illuminati can't find it in themselves to do so. So they're content to just wait for their universe to be destroyed. Reed Richards gathers his family, including his two young kids, so that he's with them when everything dies.\\
'''You'd expect:''' Even if he can't morally justify himself to destroy another Earth in order to save his, you'd think that Reed would at least do something to save his family. He has the knowledge and means to travel to the other universes within the multiverse. He also knows how to travel in time. So he could easily send his family to another universe, preferably one where the Earth has already been destroyed, so the Incursions don't threaten them. Or he could send his family far to the past of the 616 Earth, where they could live their full lives long before the Incursions ever start. At the very least, you'd think he would ''tell his family what is about to happen''. Even if his own moral code says he should do nothing and let everyone (including his family) die, maybe Sue doesn't feel the same way, so shouldn't be allowed to make her own choices? Maybe ''she'' would want to do anything she can to save their kids?\\
'''Instead:''' Reed doesn't do anything and doesn't tell anyone about the end of the world, even when Sue keeps asking what's wrong with him. Thankfully [[spoiler:Namor once again has the backbone to do what the other Illuminati couldn't, so the two universes survive]].
** Over in the Ultimate Universe, Ultimate Nick Fury decides to trust the Maker, also known as Reed Richards, who has previously tried to kill the Ultimates several times, wiped out entire countries, and the Asgardians, and tried to personally kill Nick himself. Surprise, Ultimate Reed is out for himself.
----
* ArchivePanic: Hickman's storyline is very intricate and he tends to cast, pick up, and scatter StoryBreadcrumbs to the tiniest grain. Seeds for his run were first placed in his run on ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'' (more specifically, ''Dark Reign: Fantastic Four'' a tie-in to ''ComicBook/DarkReign'' before his run on the FF) and only finally resolve itself in ''Secret Wars'' and to get the full experience you will need to read all 40 issues of his run on ''The Avengers'', all 33 issues of his run on ''New Avengers'', ''Infinity'' and its tie-ins. Eventually he includes the Maker from the ComicBook/UltimateMarvel universe, so you should also be familiar with his run in ''[[ComicBook/TheUltimates Ultimate Comics: The Ultimates]]'' as well. At the very least, his run on ''New Avengers'' is far more central to the plot of his overall MythArc than the other stuff.
* AssPull: Namor and the Cabal have been trapped in a mapmaker world, which will soon blow up, and they have no way to escape it... but wait! there is a second incursion taking place in that planet ''at the same time''! They can escape to the third earth by using it! A strange mechanic to the incursions that raises several questions, but which end up unanswered: it was never addressed or discussed before, neither at a later point. It was just a convenient way to keep the Cabal in the game.
* AudienceAlienatingPremise: A lot of people are quick to turn away from ''New Avengers'', mostly because of how morally reprehensible the main characters are. Not helping is that there are other groups being more productive about the problem. When ''Doctor Doom'' is doing a better job of doing that, well, so much for the smartest 'heroes' on the planet.
* AuthorsSavingThrow:
** The "Time Runs Out" story features Thor being unable to lift the hammer of Thorr, which can only be wielded by those ''un''worthy of using Mjolnir. Thor had been made unworthy of Mjolnir by Jason Aaron a short time before, which faced ''incredible'' backlash.
** Also during "Time Runs Out", Hickman undoes Ultimate Reed Richards' not-terribly-well received HeelFaceTurn (given the dude had committed outright genocide) with a simple "nope, faking it. I'm a bastard and I'm not going back."
** As for the ComicBook/UltimateMarvel universe, Hickman also restored S.H.I.E.L.D., which had been disbanded after the events of ''ComicBook/CataclysmTheUltimatesLastStand''. This didn't show up in time at any of the Ultimate Marvel ongoing titles, but explains why SHIELD was fighting in the first ''Secret Wars'' issue.
** And the reveal in Bendis' Illuminati series that the Beyonder is actually a mutant Inhuman, which Hickman and his editor, Tom Brevoort, have both said in interviews is just the Beyonder messing with the Illuminati's heads. Given that the Bendis story was something of a base-breaker to begin with, this particular retcon was one that many fans were okay with.
* BrokenBase: The run in general. Either it's an epic storyline, or pointlessly dull and filled with needless amounts of PurpleProse. Either many consider it to be an all-time defining run, or something so drastically different in tone, genre, and theme from what many consider to be ''The Avengers'' that some believe it to be an InNameOnly take on the mythos and characters. Incidentally the latter point is used by both defenders and detractors. Detractors use it to slag it as out-of-character while defenders commend on Hickman's ability to overturn familiarity with iconic characters and totally change the way people saw them.
* ContinuityLockOut: The story started solid in ''New Avengers'': incursions take place between earth and an alternate universe earth, and end with either of them destroyed. In each incursion, heroes have to do something to prevent the universe's destruction. Easy, right? But then the story starts branching in all directions and introducing many, many concepts. By the end of it, many are waiting for the final incursion to come at last and proceed to Secret Wars. Even then, you kind of do need to know something about the original ''ComicBook/SecretWars'' event to understand the significance of the Ivory Kings [[spoiler:being the Beyonders]] since the first crossover is essentially being reinterpreted and recast as an out-there Lovecraftian post-modernist science-fiction narrative.
* CreatorsPet: A criticism some have of Hickman is that he only focuses on characters he had extended plans for (Reed Richards and Black Panther), while others are fairly neglected overall (Beast in particular, though Iron Man and Black Bolt got it as well), due to Marvel having other plans for them.
* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: As the story goes on, the sheer amount of KickTheDog and ShootTheDog moments the heroes perpetrate combined with a lot of ConflictBall going around makes it hard for a lot of readers to invest in what's going on, especially since ''ComicBook/SecretWars2015'' makes the death of the multiverse a ForegoneConclusion.
* DesignatedHero: The Avengers (except Captain America) don't come off terribly well in their initial dealings with Starbrand. He's a terrified person who's just been given superpowers without warning, in a way that has killed everyone in the college he attends and works at, leaving him surrounded by charred corpses. So aside from Cap trying to reassure him and calm him down in case he starts breaking things, the other Avengers ''attack'' him. Two issues later, he accidentally kills a living brain organism when it attacks him in a panicked rage, so the Avengers beat the living daylights out of him.
* EnsembleDarkhorse:
** Ex Nihilo, for his generally bombastic nature. Not bad for someone who started off bombing cities.
** Smasher.
** The entire Great Society is a herd of dark horses. Consisting of Sun God, The Rider, The Norn, The Jovian, Boundless and Dr. Spectrum, they are another homage to the Justice League and the heroes of DC, they are presented as a moral team and badasses in their own right.
*** Sun God especially, in part for being an {{expy}} of Superman, and for standing out against the GreyAndGrayMorality of New Avengers.
** In the same vein, Sunspot got a bit of this by being the OnlySaneMan and inadvertently solving the threat of AIM by simply ''buying them out.'' YMMV given his status as CreatorsPet.
* EvilIsSexy: Black Swan seems to have developed this reputation.
* SugarWiki/FunnyMoments:
** How Cap and Tony recruited ComicBook/{{Wolverine}} and Franchise/SpiderMan:
--->'''Tony''': We have beer.\\
'''Wolverine''': ''Sold''.\\
'''Tony''': We have money.\\
'''Spider-Man''' [''hugging him'']: ''Oh, thank God''.
** The barbecue in Issue #24, cooked by Thor, no less.
--->'''Thor:''' I have prepared steaks, hamburgers and veggie burgers. Furthermore, I have grilled the hot dog, though the quality of this meat seems ... questionable -- ''this'' I cannot recommend. I also attempted a lobster, but the beast defeated me.
--->'''Smasher:''' Yeah. I'll have a hot dog.
--->'''Cannonball:''' Me too.
--->'''Thor:''' ''[with a bemused expression]'' Such bravery. Two dogs. ''Each''.
** Maximus the Mad telling Thanos it's no wonder Nick Fury doesn't trust him. "You do look extremely suspicious."
* HilariousInHindsight: Something that detractors of his run often said was that, while Hickman made the comic ''feel'' epic, StatusQuoIsGod and it would all amount to nothing in the end... Come 2015, and it turns out his run was the set-up to ''ComicBook/SecretWars2015'', which is Marvel's biggest event in ''years'', and did indeed have an impact on the Marvel Universe.
* HoYay:
** Many have remarked on Hyperion and Thor's particularly bro-mantic interactions. To say nothing of their raising the zebra-kids together (and the kids call Hyperion "dad" anyway).
** Sun God doesn't go berserk as his team is destroyed, but when the Rider, Wayne, dies. It helps that the two are very clearly Expies of Superman and Batman, respectively, who are the poster boys for the trope in comics.
* IdiotPlot: One of the main points of criticism for the run is how the main conflict could have been solved had they ''not'' kept it a secret. If the Illuminati reached out to the Marvel U's larger scientific community, to other magicians and sorcerers, and every other super-team, as soon as they found out about the problem, they would have had ''far'' more resources at their disposal to actually stop it, or at the very least more time to launch an evacuation.
** They specifically get called out for this by the Mighty Avengers in issues of that title showing the team's participation in ''Time Runs Out'' from their point of view.
* MoralEventHorizon: The Illuminati wiping Steve's memory. Though it could also be CruelToBeKind.
** Strange either already crossed it when he offered to sell his entire soul for power [[spoiler:before finding out that it was already bound to another demon]] or at the latest when [[spoiler: he slaughtered the Great Society with those dark powers]].
** While one could make an argument in favor of Namor for saving Earth 616 via [[spoiler: destroying the homeworld of the Great Society]], he most definitely crossed it after gloating right in T'Challa's face how he enjoyed destroying Wakanda ''twice'' and '''regrets''' that so many are left alive. Although he was mourning the death of his own people the second time, which Shuri is directly responsible for, so he may not have meant it.
*** IF the previous wasn't enough [[spoiler:his releasing and founding of the Cabal, which leads to the complete destruction of Wakanda, Shuri's death and the cruel destruction of a number of other worlds]] pretty much seals it for him, particularly with the other characters.
* {{Narm}}:
** It's a bit difficult to take Black Swam's proclamation that "everything dies" seriously when no-one actually manages to die for quite a long while in. The constant repetition, rephrasing, and variation of Reed Richards' opening "Everything dies" monologue complete with an all back rectangular panel with different characters and AU versions, starts becoming funny after a while.
** 'One was life one was death' gets repeated a bit too often as well.
** How long does it take Doctor Strange to reach the DespairEventHorizon? Three issues, and one screw-up, before he completely folds like a damp cloth.
** The final fight between Old Man Captain America and Superior Iron Man is so over the top angsty and depressing that it becomes hilarious. By the time the Helicarrier drops, it moves into Tex Avery levels of absurdity.
*** Not helping is that the reason Old Man Rodgers has hunted Tony down and is literally beating him to death is because... Tony ''lied'' to him.
* NightmareFuel: Reed Richard's reveal in ''Time Runs Out'' that without any warning, [[spoiler:almost all of the multiverse has just vanished overnight.]]
* OlderThanTheyThink: Having a captive Bruce Banner and throwing him into a disaster area, so that he hulks out and deal with the threat (basically turing Hulk into a weapon), had already been done in the first miniseries of ''ComicBook/TheUltimates'', and many other times in the ComicBook/UltimateMarvel universe.
* SpiritualLicensee: A few fans have suggested that the character choices, style, and scale are quite reminiscent of ''ComicBook/LegionOfSuperheroes''. Given that Hickman's an avowed fan of the franchise, it's not surprising.
* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter:
** Smasher gets a whole issue introducing her, explaining her backstory and nature (Legacy character, member of the Shi'ar Imperial Guard). Then... she mostly just stands around in the background, gets an out-of-nowhere romance with Cannonball in ''Infinity'', and during ''Time Runs Out'' is demoted to being a mom. That's it.
** During ''Time Runs Out'', Captain Britain is part of the Illuminati. His role is to just stand around in the background, then deliver one bit of exposition on how the Captain Britain Corps have had [[DroppedABridgeOnHim A Bridge Dropped On Them]], before getting shuffled offstage.
** Comicbook/{{Cyclops}} begins to take on an increasingly important role in the final art of the saga, with he and his Phoenix Egg supposedly set up as an important part of the resolution. [[spoiler: In reality, the Phoenix-empowered Cyclops is brutally (and CASUALLY) killed by God Doom in ''Secret Wars'' #4, without ever contributing much to the overall story.]]
* WhatAnIdiot:
** In ''Avengers'' #34, the Time Gem has caused the Avengers to jump uncontrollably into various times in the future. Captain America, Black Widow, and Starbrand arrive in the 71st century. There they meet the apparently immortal Franklin Richards, who they know as a kid in their own time. Franklin asks Cap whether he would like to know what's causing the Incursions that threaten the Earth and the entire multiverse in the 21st century, and who's behind them?\\
'''You'd expect:''' Cap to say, "Yes, please tell me all about it!" Gaining this information would be massively important, because it might allow the Avengers to stop the Incursions and save the Earth and the multiverse. Also, Cap knows that Time Gem might transfer them into the future at any time without any warning... So the time they have available in the 71st century is limited, and hence an intelligent leader like Captain America should realize this time should be spent in learning whatever they can about the Incursions.\\
'''Instead:''' Cap doesn't want Franklin to answer those questions yet, instead he wants Franklin to tell him how to stop Tony Stark. Cap is angry at Tony and the Illuminati for trying to stop the Incursions through various morally questionable ways, and for erasing Cap's memory about this so he wouldn't oppose them. Franklin tells Cap he can fight the Illuminati but he can't fight fate, and that that things will only get worse if he fights them, and the Incursions will continue. Before Franklin has time to tell them anything else, the Time Gem once again transfers the Avengers away before they can learn what's causing the Incursions and who's behind them. After the Avengers return to their own time, the Incursions continue, and eventually [[spoiler:the multiverse is destroyed]]. So the information Cap got from Franklin was useless, while the information he didn't bother to get because he was so mad at Tony might've helped the Avengers to [[spoiler:save the multiverse]]. Great job, Cap!
** In ''New Avengers'' #23, an Incursion is threatening to destroy the 616 universe and another universe that is coming to contact with it. This could be stopped by destroying the Earth in either of those universe, but having just seen [[spoiler:Namor do this to stop the previous incursion]], the other members of the Illuminati can't find it in themselves to do so. So they're content to just wait for their universe to be destroyed. Reed Richards gathers his family, including his two young kids, so that he's with them when everything dies.\\
'''You'd expect:''' Even if he can't morally justify himself to destroy another Earth in order to save his, you'd think that Reed would at least do something to save his family. He has the knowledge and means to travel to the other universes within the multiverse. He also knows how to travel in time. So he could easily send his family to another universe, preferably one where the Earth has already been destroyed, so the Incursions don't threaten them. Or he could send his family far to the past of the 616 Earth, where they could live their full lives long before the Incursions ever start. At the very least, you'd think he would ''tell his family what is about to happen''. Even if his own moral code says he should do nothing and let everyone (including his family) die, maybe Sue doesn't feel the same way, so shouldn't be allowed to make her own choices? Maybe ''she'' would want to do anything she can to save their kids?\\
'''Instead:''' Reed doesn't do anything and doesn't tell anyone about the end of the world, even when Sue keeps asking what's wrong with him. Thankfully [[spoiler:Namor once again has the backbone to do what the other Illuminati couldn't, so the two universes survive]].
** Over in the Ultimate Universe, Ultimate Nick Fury decides to trust the Maker, also known as Reed Richards, who has previously tried to kill the Ultimates several times, wiped out entire countries, and the Asgardians, and tried to personally kill Nick himself. Surprise, Ultimate Reed is out for himself.
----
