History YMMV / TheAvengers

7th Feb '16 7:27:20 AM Freshmeat
Is there an issue? Send a Message
* MagnumOpus: You'll get a lot of answers as to which run of the book is the best, but the most generally agreed upon are the classic Ray Thomas run and the epic Kurt Busiek/Geoff Johns run.
16th Jan '16 2:04:32 PM MagBas
Is there an issue? Send a Message
* GodModeSue: Mantis under Steve Engelhart -- in her debut, she handed ''the entire team their asses'' including ''Thor''. Just to establish that she was awesome.
28th Dec '15 12:11:54 PM Anddrix
Is there an issue? Send a Message
* StrawmanHasAPoint: Since her return, ComicBook/ScarletWitch has been attacked by several of her teammates for the events of ''ComicBook/HouseOfM'', even though ''Comicbook/TheChildrensCrusade'' established that she was possessed and manipulated by DoctorDoom. Her critics (namely TheVision and Rogue) are made to look like massive [[JerkAss Jerkasses]] for attacking her, but ''House of M'' wasn't the ''first'' time Wanda lost control of her powers. There is definitely some logic behind the idea that having her on the Comicbook/UncannyAvengers might be dangerous and counterproductive to the team's mission statement.
to:
* StrawmanHasAPoint: Since her return, ComicBook/ScarletWitch has been attacked by several of her teammates for the events of ''ComicBook/HouseOfM'', even though ''Comicbook/TheChildrensCrusade'' established that she was possessed and manipulated by DoctorDoom.Doctor Doom. Her critics (namely TheVision and Rogue) are made to look like massive [[JerkAss Jerkasses]] for attacking her, but ''House of M'' wasn't the ''first'' time Wanda lost control of her powers. There is definitely some logic behind the idea that having her on the Comicbook/UncannyAvengers might be dangerous and counterproductive to the team's mission statement.
28th Dec '15 11:58:21 AM Anddrix
Is there an issue? Send a Message
** ''Avengers: The Children's Crusade'' for the Scarlet Witch's involvement in the mass depowering of the mutant race during ''ComicBook/HouseOfM by [[RetCon retconning these events to largely be down to]] [[TheChessmaster the manipulations of]] SelfDemonstrating/DoctorDoom.
to:
** ''Avengers: The Children's Crusade'' for the Scarlet Witch's involvement in the mass depowering of the mutant race during ''ComicBook/HouseOfM by [[RetCon retconning these events to largely be down to]] [[TheChessmaster the manipulations of]] SelfDemonstrating/DoctorDoom.Doctor Doom.
26th Dec '15 11:42:48 AM nombretomado
Is there an issue? Send a Message
* FridgeHorror: Janet Van Dyne/The Wasp is confronted by her boyfriend, Hank Pym, the original Ant-Man, posing as a someone else known as Yellow-Jacket, who claims to have murdered Pym and demands that Jan marry him. She does... and once Yellow-Jacket calms down and we learn that he's actually Hank, Jan reveals that she knew it was him all along but went with it anyway because she'd been trying to get him to marry her for years, so she took advantage of the chance to finally become his wife (second wife, technically). And none of the other Avengers seem to be bothered by the fact that Jan basically took advantage of Hank when he had clearly suffered some kind of psychotic break down just because she wanted to be Mrs. Pym. Granted, it was the SilverAge but even by SilverAge standards that is all kinds of unintentionally creepy. Of course, it blew up in Jan's face years later...
to:
* FridgeHorror: Janet Van Dyne/The Wasp is confronted by her boyfriend, Hank Pym, the original Ant-Man, posing as a someone else known as Yellow-Jacket, who claims to have murdered Pym and demands that Jan marry him. She does... and once Yellow-Jacket calms down and we learn that he's actually Hank, Jan reveals that she knew it was him all along but went with it anyway because she'd been trying to get him to marry her for years, so she took advantage of the chance to finally become his wife (second wife, technically). And none of the other Avengers seem to be bothered by the fact that Jan basically took advantage of Hank when he had clearly suffered some kind of psychotic break down just because she wanted to be Mrs. Pym. Granted, it was the SilverAge UsefulNotes/{{the Silver Age|of Comic Books}} but even by SilverAge Silver Age standards that is all kinds of unintentionally creepy. Of course, it blew up in Jan's face years later...
15th Dec '15 2:24:40 PM CaptainCrawdad
Is there an issue? Send a Message
* TheWoobie: [[ComicBook/MsMarvel Carol Danvers]]. First she got powers during the explosion of a Kree machine, became a super-hero, and joined the Avengers. Everything was fine... and from there, down she goes. First, she is abducted, drugged and raped by the son of Immortus, who left her pregnant to be "born" on Earth ([[AllThereInTheManual long story...]]). She returned, and the evil Rogue stole her powers and memories: Charles Xavier helped her to recover her memories, but not her emotional link to them. Then she was abducted by aliens, who unleashed great power in her, and she became Binary, but she lost this power as well. Once more with just the power of Ms. Marvel ("Warbird" by then), she joined the Avengers. But her refusal to point her loss of power (which almost led to disaster in battle), and her alcoholism, got her court-martialed and expelled from the Avengers. The Scarlet Witch created an alternate reality where she was the greatest super-hero... but things got back to normal, and she's just another super-hero of the lot. She returned to the Avengers, only to witness their breakup during Civil War. She took the side of Tony Stark, and had to hunt her old friends... and then, Stark was replaced by Norman Osborn, and she had to join those Avengers she was hunting. Even worse, Osborn included Ms. Marvel in his team... who was actually Moonstone using her first costume. But she's endured long enough to become the new Captain Marvel so she is very much an IronWoobie. ** Wasp, though she crosses into IronWoobie: Her dad died, to kick things off, but she didn't let that get her down too much. Then she joined a superhero team only to be regulated to DistressedDamsel roles and ignored due to being the weakest member of the team (she eventually TookALevelInBadass but it too a long time for her to get there). Then her personal chauffeur starts making advances on her until eventually trying to kill her and Hank or to get her money; said chauffeur, it turns out, being Whirlwind, a villain that constantly kicks her ass when they battle, who's since developed an obsessive crush on her. Then she marries Hank, only for him to be in the middle of a psychotic break down that is partially her own fault, eventually resulting in a painful string of events that involve her almost being mind-raped and killed by Ultron, the crazy robot Hank built, when Ultron tries to make himself a wife, Jocasta, based on Jan's brainwaves (complete with Jan being forced to endure some very NightmareFuel ShamefulStrip FanDisservice), getting slapped across the face and knocked to the floor, forever turning her into a poster child for domestic abuse in comics. THEN, she spends the next bit of time recuperating from that and dealing with a messy divorce and, when her and Hank start to patch things up, she's attacked and almost raped by Whirlwind, who's crush has turned him into an obsessed psychopath. Then, after not being allowed to do anything for a while, she's used as a [[spoiler: SacrificialLion]] during ''ComicBook/SecretInvasion''. [[spoiler: During which, she's secretly lost in the Microverse, fighting for her life]].
to:
* TheWoobie: TheWoobie: ** [[ComicBook/MsMarvel Carol Danvers]]. First she got powers during the explosion of a Kree machine, became a super-hero, and joined the Avengers. Everything was fine... and from there, down she goes. First, she is abducted, drugged and raped by the son of Immortus, who left her pregnant to be "born" on Earth ([[AllThereInTheManual long story...]]). She returned, and the evil Rogue stole her powers and memories: Charles Xavier helped her to recover her memories, but not her emotional link to them. Then she was abducted by aliens, who unleashed great power in her, and she became Binary, but she lost this power as well. Once more with just the power of Ms. Marvel ("Warbird" by then), she joined the Avengers. But her refusal to point her loss of power (which almost led to disaster in battle), and her alcoholism, got her court-martialed and expelled from the Avengers. The Scarlet Witch created an alternate reality where she was the greatest super-hero... but things got back to normal, and she's just another super-hero of the lot. She returned to the Avengers, only to witness their breakup during Civil War. She took the side of Tony Stark, and had to hunt her old friends... and then, Stark was replaced by Norman Osborn, and she had to join those Avengers she was hunting. Even worse, Osborn included Ms. Marvel in his team... who was actually Moonstone using her first costume. But she's endured long enough to become the new Captain Marvel so she is very much an IronWoobie. ** Wasp, though she crosses into IronWoobie: Her dad died, to kick things off, but she didn't let that get her down too much. Then she joined a superhero team only to be regulated to DistressedDamsel roles and ignored due to being the weakest member of the team (she eventually TookALevelInBadass but it too a long time for her to get there). Then her personal chauffeur starts making advances on her until eventually trying to kill her and Hank or to get her money; said the chauffeur, it turns out, being is Whirlwind, a villain that constantly kicks her ass when they battle, who's since developed an obsessive crush on her. Then she marries Hank, only for him to be in the middle of a psychotic break down that is partially her own fault, eventually resulting in a painful string of events that involve her almost being mind-raped and killed by Ultron, the crazy robot Hank built, when Ultron tries to make himself a wife, Jocasta, based on Jan's brainwaves (complete with Jan being forced to endure some very NightmareFuel ShamefulStrip FanDisservice), getting slapped across the face and knocked to the floor, forever turning her into a poster child for domestic abuse in comics. THEN, she spends the next bit of time recuperating from that and dealing with a messy divorce and, when her and Hank start to patch things up, she's attacked and almost raped by Whirlwind, who's crush has turned him into an obsessed psychopath. Then, after not being allowed to do anything for a while, she's used as a [[spoiler: SacrificialLion]] during ''ComicBook/SecretInvasion''. [[spoiler: During which, she's secretly lost in the Microverse, fighting for her life]].
28th Nov '15 2:21:12 PM nombretomado
Is there an issue? Send a Message
** ''SecretInvasion'' provided one for Hank Pym, whose actions in ''ComicBook/CivilWar'' were negated by the reveal that he was a Skrull during that storyline. However, it's established that he was only replaced following ''Avengers Disassembled'', which means that [[NeverLiveItDown his hitting Jan during a mental breakdown]] is still on him. *** {{Invoked|Trope}} with Quicksilver claiming that he had been a Skrull for a similar period of time [[KarmaHoudini to avoid any punishment for his role in instigating in the]] ''ComicBook/HouseOfM'' and his actions between then and ''SecretInvasion''.
to:
** ''SecretInvasion'' ''ComicBook/SecretInvasion'' provided one for Hank Pym, whose actions in ''ComicBook/CivilWar'' were negated by the reveal that he was a Skrull during that storyline. However, it's established that he was only replaced following ''Avengers Disassembled'', which means that [[NeverLiveItDown his hitting Jan during a mental breakdown]] is still on him. *** {{Invoked|Trope}} with Quicksilver claiming that he had been a Skrull for a similar period of time [[KarmaHoudini to avoid any punishment for his role in instigating in the]] ''ComicBook/HouseOfM'' and his actions between then and ''SecretInvasion''.''ComicBook/SecretInvasion''.

* BaseBreaker: Maria Hill may be the biggest example of one in the MarvelUniverse. Even her actress in the films happily referred to her as 'the biggest bitch in the Marvel Universe'. She's the woman who tried to arrest ''Captain America'' for reasons she wouldn't be able to arrest him for, going out of her way to sabotage others to get ahead, and generally being a jerk to everyone she meets while her competence as a SHIELD director leaving much to be desired. [[NiceJobBreakingItHero Her actions in]] ''SecretAvengers'' [[WhatTheHellHero do not]] [[KickTheDog help with this]]. ''However'', a good number of fans ''do'' sympathise with her, especially thanks to her CharacterDevelopment under Fraction's pen in ''Iron Man'' and the handling by MarkWaid in his ''Hulk'' work, and a number point out that Nick Fury is generally given a free pass for similar stunts while she gets derided [[note]]which, again, her actress acknowledges, pointing out the DoubleStandard of how when a guy does something cruel and morally questionable, he's a badass, but when a woman does it, she's just a bitch[[/note]]; not to mention, her clear guilt during ''Secret Avengers'' helps to at least humanize her and make it clear she's not OK betraying Mockingbird or Hulk (but not Daisy; she's happy screwing over Daisy).
to:
* BaseBreaker: Maria Hill may be the biggest example of one in the MarvelUniverse. Even her actress in the films happily referred to her as 'the biggest bitch in the Marvel Universe'. She's the woman who tried to arrest ''Captain America'' for reasons she wouldn't be able to arrest him for, going out of her way to sabotage others to get ahead, and generally being a jerk to everyone she meets while her competence as a SHIELD director leaving much to be desired. [[NiceJobBreakingItHero Her actions in]] ''SecretAvengers'' ''ComicBook/SecretAvengers'' [[WhatTheHellHero do not]] [[KickTheDog help with this]]. ''However'', a good number of fans ''do'' sympathise with her, especially thanks to her CharacterDevelopment under Fraction's pen in ''Iron Man'' and the handling by MarkWaid in his ''Hulk'' work, and a number point out that Nick Fury is generally given a free pass for similar stunts while she gets derided [[note]]which, again, her actress acknowledges, pointing out the DoubleStandard of how when a guy does something cruel and morally questionable, he's a badass, but when a woman does it, she's just a bitch[[/note]]; not to mention, her clear guilt during ''Secret Avengers'' helps to at least humanize her and make it clear she's not OK betraying Mockingbird or Hulk (but not Daisy; she's happy screwing over Daisy).

** Wasp, though she crosses into IronWoobie: Her dad died, to kick things off, but she didn't let that get her down too much. Then she joined a superhero team only to be regulated to DistressedDamsel roles and ignored due to being the weakest member of the team (she eventually TookALevelInBadass but it too a long time for her to get there). Then her personal chauffeur starts making advances on her until eventually trying to kill her and Hank or to get her money; said chauffeur, it turns out, being Whirlwind, a villain that constantly kicks her ass when they battle, who's since developed an obsessive crush on her. Then she marries Hank, only for him to be in the middle of a psychotic break down that is partially her own fault, eventually resulting in a painful string of events that involve her almost being mind-raped and killed by Ultron, the crazy robot Hank built, when Ultron tries to make himself a wife, Jocasta, based on Jan's brainwaves (complete with Jan being forced to endure some very NightmareFuel ShamefulStrip FanDisservice), getting slapped across the face and knocked to the floor, forever turning her into a poster child for domestic abuse in comics. THEN, she spends the next bit of time recuperating from that and dealing with a messy divorce and, when her and Hank start to patch things up, she's attacked and almost raped by Whirlwind, who's crush has turned him into an obsessed psychopath. Then, after not being allowed to do anything for a while, she's used as a [[spoiler: SacrificialLion]] during ''ScretInvasion''. [[spoiler: During which, she's secretly lost in the Microverse, fighting for her life]].
to:
** Wasp, though she crosses into IronWoobie: Her dad died, to kick things off, but she didn't let that get her down too much. Then she joined a superhero team only to be regulated to DistressedDamsel roles and ignored due to being the weakest member of the team (she eventually TookALevelInBadass but it too a long time for her to get there). Then her personal chauffeur starts making advances on her until eventually trying to kill her and Hank or to get her money; said chauffeur, it turns out, being Whirlwind, a villain that constantly kicks her ass when they battle, who's since developed an obsessive crush on her. Then she marries Hank, only for him to be in the middle of a psychotic break down that is partially her own fault, eventually resulting in a painful string of events that involve her almost being mind-raped and killed by Ultron, the crazy robot Hank built, when Ultron tries to make himself a wife, Jocasta, based on Jan's brainwaves (complete with Jan being forced to endure some very NightmareFuel ShamefulStrip FanDisservice), getting slapped across the face and knocked to the floor, forever turning her into a poster child for domestic abuse in comics. THEN, she spends the next bit of time recuperating from that and dealing with a messy divorce and, when her and Hank start to patch things up, she's attacked and almost raped by Whirlwind, who's crush has turned him into an obsessed psychopath. Then, after not being allowed to do anything for a while, she's used as a [[spoiler: SacrificialLion]] during ''ScretInvasion''.''ComicBook/SecretInvasion''. [[spoiler: During which, she's secretly lost in the Microverse, fighting for her life]].
27th Nov '15 6:31:33 PM nombretomado
Is there an issue? Send a Message
** After the widely loved KurtBusiek and GeoffJohns runs, ChuckAusten took over which was every bit as terrible as ''ComicBook/TheCrossing'' to the point where Creator/BrianMichaelBendis had to reboot the team yet again with ''ComicBook/AvengersDisassembled'' and was forced to put ScarletWitch on hiatus as a character for half a decade and then come up with retcons for various characters' behavior just to make ChuckAusten's work non-canon.
to:
** After the widely loved KurtBusiek and GeoffJohns runs, ChuckAusten took over which was every bit as terrible as ''ComicBook/TheCrossing'' to the point where Creator/BrianMichaelBendis had to reboot the team yet again with ''ComicBook/AvengersDisassembled'' and was forced to put ScarletWitch ComicBook/ScarletWitch on hiatus as a character for half a decade and then come up with retcons for various characters' behavior just to make ChuckAusten's work non-canon.

* StrawmanHasAPoint: Since her return, ScarletWitch has been attacked by several of her teammates for the events of ''ComicBook/HouseOfM'', even though ''Comicbook/TheChildrensCrusade'' established that she was possessed and manipulated by DoctorDoom. Her critics (namely TheVision and Rogue) are made to look like massive [[JerkAss Jerkasses]] for attacking her, but ''House of M'' wasn't the ''first'' time Wanda lost control of her powers. There is definitely some logic behind the idea that having her on the Comicbook/UncannyAvengers might be dangerous and counterproductive to the team's mission statement.
to:
* StrawmanHasAPoint: Since her return, ScarletWitch ComicBook/ScarletWitch has been attacked by several of her teammates for the events of ''ComicBook/HouseOfM'', even though ''Comicbook/TheChildrensCrusade'' established that she was possessed and manipulated by DoctorDoom. Her critics (namely TheVision and Rogue) are made to look like massive [[JerkAss Jerkasses]] for attacking her, but ''House of M'' wasn't the ''first'' time Wanda lost control of her powers. There is definitely some logic behind the idea that having her on the Comicbook/UncannyAvengers might be dangerous and counterproductive to the team's mission statement.
7th Nov '15 2:34:15 AM DeadlyAssassin
Is there an issue? Send a Message
* TheWoobie: Carol Danvers. First she got powers during the explosion of a Kree machine, became a super-hero, and joined the Avengers. Everything was fine... and from there, down she goes. First, she is abducted, drugged and raped by the son of Immortus, who left her pregnant to be "born" on Earth ([[AllThereInTheManual long story...]]). She returned, and the evil Rogue stole her powers and memories: Charles Xavier helped her to recover her memories, but not her emotional link to them. Then she was abducted by aliens, who unleashed great power in her, and she became Binary, but she lost this power as well. Once more with just the power of Ms. Marvel ("Warbird" by then), she joined the Avengers. But her refusal to point her loss of power (which almost led to disaster in battle), and her alcoholism, got her court-martialed and expelled from the Avengers. The Scarlet Witch created an alternate reality where she was the greatest super-hero... but things got back to normal, and she's just another super-hero of the lot. She returned to the Avengers, only to witness their breakup during Civil War. She took the side of Tony Stark, and had to hunt her old friends... and then, Stark was replaced by Norman Osborn, and she had to join those Avengers she was hunting. Even worse, Osborn included Ms. Marvel in his team... who was actually Moonstone using her first costume. But she's endured long enough to become the new CaptainMarvel so she is very much an IronWoobie.
to:
* TheWoobie: [[ComicBook/MsMarvel Carol Danvers.Danvers]]. First she got powers during the explosion of a Kree machine, became a super-hero, and joined the Avengers. Everything was fine... and from there, down she goes. First, she is abducted, drugged and raped by the son of Immortus, who left her pregnant to be "born" on Earth ([[AllThereInTheManual long story...]]). She returned, and the evil Rogue stole her powers and memories: Charles Xavier helped her to recover her memories, but not her emotional link to them. Then she was abducted by aliens, who unleashed great power in her, and she became Binary, but she lost this power as well. Once more with just the power of Ms. Marvel ("Warbird" by then), she joined the Avengers. But her refusal to point her loss of power (which almost led to disaster in battle), and her alcoholism, got her court-martialed and expelled from the Avengers. The Scarlet Witch created an alternate reality where she was the greatest super-hero... but things got back to normal, and she's just another super-hero of the lot. She returned to the Avengers, only to witness their breakup during Civil War. She took the side of Tony Stark, and had to hunt her old friends... and then, Stark was replaced by Norman Osborn, and she had to join those Avengers she was hunting. Even worse, Osborn included Ms. Marvel in his team... who was actually Moonstone using her first costume. But she's endured long enough to become the new CaptainMarvel Captain Marvel so she is very much an IronWoobie.
5th Nov '15 9:08:29 AM nombretomado
Is there an issue? Send a Message
* SoBadItsGood: There was a story with a villain called Immortus, whose power is that he can summon up mythical and real historical figures to fight for him, like Merlin, Atilla the Hun, Goliath and... Paul Bunyan. Yes the [[TheMightyThor Executioner]] vs Paul Bunyan. I am not making this up. Unfortunately (or fortunately?), Immortus was more toned down in later appearances, being known strictly as a time travelling villain..
to:
* SoBadItsGood: There was a story with a villain called Immortus, whose power is that he can summon up mythical and real historical figures to fight for him, like Merlin, Atilla the Hun, Goliath and... Paul Bunyan. Yes Yes, the [[TheMightyThor [[ComicBook/TheMightyThor Executioner]] vs Paul Bunyan. I am not making this up. Unfortunately (or fortunately?), Immortus was more toned down in later appearances, being known strictly as a time travelling villain..
This list shows the last 10 events of 645. Show all.