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** The Team Titans had a lot of good potential on being the Titans equivalent of X-Force as originally planned only to suffer from poor writing and execution that cemented their status as a [[TheScrappy Scrappy]] team and led to most of the team being {{retgone}}d as a result of ''ComicBook/ZeroHour''. It didn't help that their comic book was unfortunately affected by ExecutiveMeddling.

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** The Team Titans had a lot of good potential on being the Titans equivalent of X-Force as originally planned only to suffer from poor writing and execution that cemented their status as a [[TheScrappy Scrappy]] team and led to most of the team being {{retgone}}d as a result of ''ComicBook/ZeroHour''.''ComicBook/ZeroHourCrisisInTime''. It didn't help that their comic book was unfortunately affected by ExecutiveMeddling.
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** Mr. Jupiter, the billionaire philanthropist the Titans were associated with for a time, was sometimes nicknamed "Mr. J", which is more well-known for being used by Harley Quinn in reference to the Joker in ''ComicBook/BatmanTheAnimatedSeries''.

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** Mr. Jupiter, the billionaire philanthropist the Titans were associated with for a time, was sometimes nicknamed "Mr. J", which is more well-known for being used by Harley Quinn in reference to the Joker in ''ComicBook/BatmanTheAnimatedSeries''.''WesternAnimation/BatmanTheAnimatedSeries''.
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** Mr. Jupiter, the billionaire philanthropist the Titans were associated with for a time, was sometimes nicknamed "Mr. J", which is more well-known for being used by Harley Quinn in reference to the Joker in ''ComicBook/BatmanTheAnimatedSeries''.
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** In the early days of the comic, Kid Flash was frequently nicknamed "Flasher", which makes it hard ''not'' to visualize Wally West exposing himself to people.
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No longer an example. He redeemed himself in Dark Nights: Death Metal.


** Superboy-Prime becoming full-on evil again after Headcase accidentally takes him away from Prime Earth. This nullifies any redemption he could have had in ''ComicBook/BlackestNight'' and solidifies his CompleteMonster status.

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Not enough context (ZCE). Flame Bait


** Deathstroke was also Wolfman's Creator's Pet for most of his run. When George Perez left ''The New Teen Titans'', Wolfman had free reign over Deathstroke's character, and it seemed that he had no objectivity where he was concerned. In a very jarring, sudden turn of events, Deathstroke became a KarmaHoudini for his actions, his [[CharacterizationMarchesOn earlier characterization forgotten]] and now established as an AntiVillain who bore the Titans no ill will[[note]](When Perez was still on the title, Deathstroke blamed the Titans for his son's death and took very clear, visible pleasure in setting them up to be betrayed and murdered)[[/note]] turned AntiHero, being EasilyForgiven and becoming a father-figure and ''friend'' of the Titans, including his biggest victims Nightwing, Changeling, and his own son Jericho who was rendered mute because of him. Wolfman has also stated repeatedly that he never saw Deathstroke as a villain, but as a victim of circumstance stuck in a bad situation, whose actions (including [[UnfortunateImplications sleeping with a teenage girl]]) weren't truly his fault.
** Wolfman made extensive use of The Wildebeest, giving him no less than three personal arcs, but the Wildebeest's design was an absolute favorite of editor Jordan Peterson's, who wanted Wildebeest to figure both into the tenth anniversary event that became Titans Hunt and even have a Wildebeest character join the heroes.

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** Deathstroke was also Wolfman's Creator's Pet for most of his run. When George Perez left ''The New Teen Titans'', Wolfman had free reign over Deathstroke's character, and it seemed that he had no objectivity where he was concerned. In a very jarring, sudden turn of events, Deathstroke became a KarmaHoudini for his actions, his [[CharacterizationMarchesOn earlier characterization forgotten]] and now established as an AntiVillain who bore the Titans no ill will[[note]](When Perez was still on the title, Deathstroke blamed the Titans for his son's death and took very clear, visible pleasure in setting them up to be betrayed and murdered)[[/note]] turned AntiHero, being EasilyForgiven and becoming a father-figure and ''friend'' of the Titans, including his biggest victims Nightwing, Changeling, and his own son Jericho who was rendered mute because of him. Wolfman has also stated repeatedly that he never saw Deathstroke as a villain, but as a victim of circumstance stuck in a bad situation, whose actions (including [[UnfortunateImplications sleeping with a teenage girl]]) girl) weren't truly his fault.
** Wolfman made extensive use of The Wildebeest, giving him no less than three personal arcs, but the Wildebeest's design was an absolute favorite of editor Jordan Peterson's, who wanted Wildebeest to figure both into the tenth anniversary event that became Titans Hunt and even have a Wildebeest character join the heroes.
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%%Lacks context** Wolfman made extensive use of The Wildebeest, giving him no less than three personal arcs, but the Wildebeest's design was an absolute favorite of editor Jordan Peterson's, who wanted Wildebeest to figure both into the tenth anniversary event that became Titans Hunt and even have a Wildebeest character join the heroes. *Doesn't explain why he is hated*

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Cutting Natter, deleting excessive complaining and merging entries about the same character..


** Danny Chase was universally loathed by fans within a few issues of his first appearance. He was a CousinOliver (he even ''looked'' like the original Cousin Oliver) introduced to make the team seem younger, as he was only in his early teens while everyone else was pushing 20. Despite his age, he constantly argued with the other members of the team, criticized them, was supposed to be a genius superspy teenager with telekinetic powers, but then went crazy with fear whenever an actual fight took place. And when Dick was distraught at the death of Jason Todd, Danny said it was no big deal because Jason 'knew the risks'. The only person who didn't seem to grasp how loathed this character was was writer Marv Wolfman who still insists it was the readers' fault for not "getting the character".
*** As a tip, in a series about costumed superheroes with codenames, whose fans presumably enjoy reading about costumed superheroes with codenames, having a character who continually goes on about how lame costumes and codenames are and how he's too cool for a costume or codename probably isn't going to go down too well.
*** It also hurt that Marv Wolfman had no idea how to write a telekinetic to complement the Titans' diverse power set. Chase's powers were mainly shown to be (at best) extremely limited: at best he could levitate himself (but only while sitting Indian-style) and throw small objects around at bad guys to annoy them. Jean Grey he wasn't; this combined with his wussy behavior during combat, made him practically useless in battle. As bad as Cypher was power-wise, at least he had training in hand-to-hand combat and was willing to take a bullet for his teammates when necessary.
*** Ironically, he also happens to be [[Creator/LewisLovhaug Lewis "Linkara" Lovhaug's]] favorite superhero, and was name-dropped as one of the major reasons he cares so much about characters getting killed off in comics in his ''WebVideo/AtopTheFourthWall'' review of ''ComicBook/HeroesInCrisis''.

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** Danny Chase was universally loathed by fans within a few issues of his first appearance. He was a CousinOliver (he even ''looked'' like the original Cousin Oliver) introduced to make the team seem younger, as he was only in his early teens while everyone else was pushing 20. Despite his age, he constantly argued with the other members of the team, criticized them, was supposed to be a genius superspy teenager with telekinetic powers, but then went crazy with fear whenever an actual fight took place. It also hurt that his powers were mainly shown to be extremely limited: at best he could levitate himself (but only while sitting Indian-style) and throw small objects around at bad guys to annoy them And when Dick was distraught at the death of Jason Todd, Danny said it was no big deal because Jason 'knew the risks'. The only person who didn't seem to grasp how loathed this character was was writer Marv Wolfman who still insists it was the readers' fault for not "getting the character".
*** As a tip, in a series about costumed superheroes with codenames, whose fans presumably enjoy reading about costumed superheroes with codenames, having a character who continually goes on about how lame costumes and codenames are and how he's too cool for a costume or codename probably isn't going to go down too well.
*** It also hurt that Marv Wolfman had no idea how to write a telekinetic to complement the Titans' diverse power set. Chase's powers were mainly shown to be (at best) extremely limited: at best he could levitate himself (but only while sitting Indian-style) and throw small objects around at bad guys to annoy them. Jean Grey he wasn't; this combined with his wussy behavior during combat, made him practically useless in battle. As bad as Cypher was power-wise, at least he had training in hand-to-hand combat and was willing to take a bullet for his teammates when necessary.
*** Ironically, he also happens to be [[Creator/LewisLovhaug Lewis "Linkara" Lovhaug's]] favorite superhero, and was name-dropped as one of the major reasons he cares so much about characters getting killed off in comics in his ''WebVideo/AtopTheFourthWall'' review of ''ComicBook/HeroesInCrisis''.
character".
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** Mirage impersonated Starfire and tricked Nightwing into sleeping with her. When the truth got revealed, Mirage laughed at the thought of Dick and Kory's relationship being ruined because he couldn't see through the disguise. To make matters worse, she still remains a KarmaHoudini over this act.
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* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: ''Titans'' becoming a villain-driven book about a team of mercenaries led by Deathstroke. The reviews for the series before the change had already been poor, but after Eric Wallace and Fabrizio Fiorentino took over, the book found its way on many "Worst Comics of 2010" lists. One common complaint was the death of Ryan Choi.

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* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: ''Titans'' becoming a [[ComicBook/{{Titans2010}} villain-driven book book]] about a team of mercenaries led by Deathstroke. The reviews for the series before the change had already been poor, but after Eric Wallace and Fabrizio Fiorentino took over, the book found its way on many "Worst Comics of 2010" lists. One common complaint was the death of Ryan Choi.

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* OnceOriginalNowCommon: The Wolfman/Perez run's focus on actual arcs and character development and dynamics made it indisputably one of DC's most successful books and helped modernize the company's storytelling considerably, giving it a fighting chance against Marvel in the later Bronze Age. Modern readers tend to wonder what all the fuss was about, comparing it unfavorably to later books with similar formulas, or even comics like Claremont's ''X-Men'' that were running at the same time.



* SeinfeldIsUnfunny: The Wolfman/Perez run's focus on actual arcs and character development and dynamics made it indisputably one of DC's most successful books and helped modernize the company's storytelling considerably, giving it a fighting chance against Marvel in the later Bronze Age. Modern readers tend to wonder what all the fuss was about, comparing it unfavorably to later books with similar formulas, or even comics like Claremont's ''X-Men'' that were running at the same time. Few will acknowledge that George Perez's artwork was anything less than excellent, though.
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Author's Saving Throw is now a Trivia trope.


* AuthorsSavingThrow: These periodically show up every few years or so. Some went over better than other.
** The Wolfman Era: Kory was forced into a political marriage during Crisis on Infinite Earths, but after she returned to Earth to be with the man she loved (Dick Grayson), her marriage was ultimately explained to be a glorified peace treaty and not a "traditional" marriage, presumably because the iconic Dick and Kory relationship being an act of adultery was a bit too much.
** The Johns' era:
*** John Byrne's unpopular erasure of the Doom Patrol's past was undone thanks to a battle with Superboy Prime.
*** Resurrecting Jericho with his original, pre HeelFaceTurn personality.
*** Both Rose Wilson and Cassandra Cain's bouts of insanity were explained away by Deathstroke drugging them during Johns final arc on the title, with Cassandra restored during it.
*** Cutting down on the number of mentor titans after fans complained and making Robin the leader of the team post One Year Later.
** ''Comicbook/TitansHunt2015'' explicitly reversed the unpopular New 52 status quo of Tim Drake’s Teen Titans being the first incarnation of the group, establishing that there was indeed a prior team of Titans consisting of Dick Grayson and his friends.
** ''Comicbook/DarkNightsDeathMetal'' restored Cyborg’s history with the team and reestablished the Titans as his TrueCompanions after the New 52 had previously jettisoned that part of his backstory in favor of making him a founding member of the Justice League.
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Per TRS.


* WhatDoYouMeanItWasntMadeOnDrugs: When Raven first appeared, she could not have her Soul Self out of her body [[KryptoniteFactor for more than 5 minutes]]. One day, she failed to return to her body in time. The results were... [[MindScrew mind screwing]].

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Not Harsher In Hindsight, moving to the more appropriate trope.


* HarsherInHindsight: At the end of Judas Contract, everyone pretty much writes off Terra as a psychopath who betrayed the Titans and banged Deathstroke for kicks. Modern audiences are much more likely to view her as the victim of horrific abuse at Deathstroke's hands, and the Titans callous to their friend's trauma and suicide. WordOfGod put the blame at Terra's feet for nearly 40 years.



* ValuesDissonance: Marv Wolfman's old writing on specific aspects of sex in the ''New Teen Titans'' and ''New Titans'' has become painful on review--situations like Changeling harassing women or Mirage's "rivalry" with Starfire (in which she pretends to be Starfire to play a BedTrick on Dick Grayson or feature Starfire's body in adult magazines--essentially ''revenge porn'') are often written as if they were wacky hijinks.

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* ValuesDissonance: ValuesDissonance:
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Marv Wolfman's old writing on specific aspects of sex in the ''New Teen Titans'' and ''New Titans'' has become painful on review--situations like Changeling harassing women or Mirage's "rivalry" with Starfire (in which she pretends to be Starfire to play a BedTrick on Dick Grayson or feature Starfire's body in adult magazines--essentially ''revenge porn'') are often written as if they were wacky hijinks.hijinks.
** At the end of ''Judas Contract'', everyone pretty much writes off Terra as a psychopath who betrayed the Titans and banged Deathstroke for kicks. Modern audiences are much more likely to view her as the victim of horrific abuse at Deathstroke's hands, and the Titans callous to their friend's trauma and suicide. WordOfGod put the blame at Terra's feet for nearly 40 years.
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*CantUnhearIt:
**Fans of Raven are more likely to read her lines in the voice of Creator/TaraStrong.
**For Starfire, it's either Creator/HyndenWalch or Creator/KariWahlgren.
**It's hard to imagine not reading Cyborg's lines with the voice of Creator/KharyPayton.
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** ''Comicbook/TitansHunt2015'' explicitly reversed the unpopular New 52 status quo of Tim Drake’s Teen Titans being the first incarnation of the group, establishing that there was indeed a prior team of Titans consisting of Dick Grayson and his friends.
** ''Comicbook/DarkNightsDeathMetal'' restored Cyborg’s history with the team and reestablished the Titans as his TrueCompanions after the New 52 had previously jettisoned that part of his backstory in favor of making him a founding member of the Justice League.

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* FandomRivalry: With the ''Batman'' fandom over Nightwing. A big part of it comes from the shipping wars regarding whether Dick should be with Starfire or Barbara Gordon, but beyond that, it's the idea of what kind of character Dick should be and what the Titans mean for his character. Some like the idea of Dick finally separating himself from Batman to become his own hero with the Titans, being the kind of hero Batman isn't in the wider DCU. Others like the idea of Dick finding himself with the Titans, then returning to the Batfamily and being recognised as Bruce's greatest ally and true heir.

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* FandomRivalry: FandomRivalry:
**
With the ''Batman'' fandom over Nightwing. A big part of it comes from the shipping wars regarding whether Dick should be with Starfire or Barbara Gordon, but beyond that, it's the idea of what kind of character Dick should be and what the Titans mean for his character. Some like the idea of Dick finally separating himself from Batman to become his own hero with the Titans, being the kind of hero Batman isn't in the wider DCU. Others like the idea of Dick finding himself with the Titans, then returning to the Batfamily and being recognised as Bruce's greatest ally and true heir.heir.
** During the New 52, Cyborg’s fans developed one with fans of Comicbook/MartianManhunter and the John Stewart version of Comicbook/GreenLantern. Manhunter fans were resentful of Cyborg for taking his place as a founding member of the [[Comicbook/JusticeLeagueOfAmerica JLA]], while Lantern fans argued that if DC wanted to use a Black superhero to diversify the League, Stewart made way more sense given he’d already served with the team in the past and was a main character in the beloved ''WesternAnimation/JusticeLeague'' TV show. This died down after Creator/ScottSnyder’s ''Comicbook/JusticeLeague2018'' run, which restored Martian Manhunter’s history with the League and also had John rejoin the team.



** A common complaint since the oughts has been the frequency with which Titans get killed off in the DC Universe, which became especially prevalent around the time of the 2003 run and has continued into the present day[[note]]For reference, at least seven of the victims in ''Comicbook/HeroesInCrisis'' were current or former Titans[[/note]]. This is another thing that can be traced back to Wolfman’s landmark run, which famously saw Terra die at the end of ''Comicbook/TheJudasContract'', as well as the deaths of other Titans as it progressed, usually either in the series itself (Jericho, Raven, Golden Eagle, Gnarrk and Danny Chase) or as part of events Wolfman himself wrote like ''Comicbook/CrisisOnInfiniteEarths'' (Kole, Aquagirl and Dove). At the time, the death of a superhero was still a notable enough event that some of these actually landed and carried weight, with Terra’s demise in particular being regarded as a shocking and impactful development. However, as time has gone on, not only has [[DeathIsCheap death lost all meaning in comics]], but it’s happened to the Titans so often that many fans have been pushed into TooBleakStoppedCaring mode, having become convinced that DC sees the franchise as little more than a farm for future CListFodder.

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** A common complaint since the oughts has been the frequency with which Titans get killed off in the DC Universe, which became especially prevalent around the time of the 2003 run and has continued into the present day[[note]]For reference, at least seven of the victims in ''Comicbook/HeroesInCrisis'' were current or former Titans[[/note]]. This is another thing that can be traced back to Wolfman’s landmark run, which famously saw Terra die at the end of ''Comicbook/TheJudasContract'', as well as the deaths of other Titans as it progressed, usually either in the series itself (Jericho, Raven, Golden Eagle, Gnarrk and Danny Chase) or as part of events Wolfman himself wrote like ''Comicbook/CrisisOnInfiniteEarths'' (Kole, Aquagirl and Dove). At the time, the death of a superhero was still a notable enough event that some of these actually landed and carried weight, with Terra’s demise in particular being regarded as a shocking and impactful development. However, as time has the years have have gone on, not only has [[DeathIsCheap death lost all meaning in comics]], but it’s happened to the Titans so often that many fans have been pushed into TooBleakStoppedCaring mode, having become convinced that DC sees the franchise as little more than a farm for future CListFodder.

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