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Misused trope.
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* ComplacentGamingSyndrome:
** While there is really one good loadout, a lot of the weapons are in pretty good spots and some classes have weapons slots were every alternative is alright. For instance, the differences between the Scorch Shot, Detonator, Flare Gun, and Shotgun are openly acknowledged to mostly come down to personal playstyle and preference. Other examples are the Soldier's weapons, where pretty much ''any'' loadout is "acceptable", except for some weapons that are inferior to other options (i.e. Panic Attack), just plain bad (Mantreads), or "crutch" (Black Box), and the Sniper's loadout, which is much the same.
*** Some weapons also invert this: prior to their nerfs, the Dead Ringer, Reserve Shooter, and Darwin's Danger Shield, among others, were the most hated weapons in [=TF2=] and using them would often get others to call you out for having no skill.
** The Heavy is the worst case of this because there is only one Heavy playstyle on account of how similar all his primary weapons operate. Most of his primaries are gimmicky variations of stock (Huo Long heater giving you a ring of fire to deter spies, Natascha for extra damage resistance etc.), with the only primary to escape this category being the Tomislav (which lets you rev up 20% faster, silently, and gain 20% better accuracy over stock at the cost of firing speed), while the Sandvich and Second Banana take up the secondary slot, and the [=GRU/FoS=] are used for their utility. Anything else is practically non-existent, unless you want to have a Fat Scout loadout.
** While there is really one good loadout, a lot of the weapons are in pretty good spots and some classes have weapons slots were every alternative is alright. For instance, the differences between the Scorch Shot, Detonator, Flare Gun, and Shotgun are openly acknowledged to mostly come down to personal playstyle and preference. Other examples are the Soldier's weapons, where pretty much ''any'' loadout is "acceptable", except for some weapons that are inferior to other options (i.e. Panic Attack), just plain bad (Mantreads), or "crutch" (Black Box), and the Sniper's loadout, which is much the same.
*** Some weapons also invert this: prior to their nerfs, the Dead Ringer, Reserve Shooter, and Darwin's Danger Shield, among others, were the most hated weapons in [=TF2=] and using them would often get others to call you out for having no skill.
** The Heavy is the worst case of this because there is only one Heavy playstyle on account of how similar all his primary weapons operate. Most of his primaries are gimmicky variations of stock (Huo Long heater giving you a ring of fire to deter spies, Natascha for extra damage resistance etc.), with the only primary to escape this category being the Tomislav (which lets you rev up 20% faster, silently, and gain 20% better accuracy over stock at the cost of firing speed), while the Sandvich and Second Banana take up the secondary slot, and the [=GRU/FoS=] are used for their utility. Anything else is practically non-existent, unless you want to have a Fat Scout loadout.
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* ComplacentGamingSyndrome:
**ComplacentGamingSyndrome: While there is really one good loadout, a lot of the weapons are in pretty good spots and some classes have weapons slots were where every alternative is alright. For instance, the justifiable (the differences between the Scorch Shot, Detonator, Flare Gun, and Shotgun are openly acknowledged to mostly come be down down to personal playstyle and preference. Other examples are the Soldier's weapons, where pretty much ''any'' loadout is "acceptable", except for some weapons that are inferior to other options (i.e. Panic Attack), just plain bad (Mantreads), or "crutch" (Black Box), and the Sniper's loadout, which is much the same.
*** Some weapons also invert this: prior to their nerfs, the Dead Ringer, Reserve Shooter, and Darwin's Danger Shield, among others, were the most hated weapons in [=TF2=] and using them would often get others to call you out for having no skill.
playstyle):
** The Heavy is the worst case of this because there is only one Heavy playstyle on account of how similar all his primary weaponsoperate. Most of his primaries are operate and how gimmicky the variations are of the stock Minigun (Huo Long heater Heater giving you a ring of fire to deter spies, Natascha for extra damage resistance etc.), with the ). The only primary to escape this category being trend is the Tomislav (which lets you rev up 20% faster, silently, and ''and'' gain 20% better accuracy over stock stock, at the cost of aa slower firing speed), while speed and less ammunition), so it mitigates many of the Miniguns' downsides. Meanwhile the Sandvich and Second Banana take up the secondary slot, slots, and the [=GRU/FoS=] are used for their utility. Anything else in the Heavy's arsenal is practically non-existent, unless you want to have a Fat Scout loadout.
**
*** Some weapons also invert this: prior to their nerfs, the Dead Ringer, Reserve Shooter, and Darwin's Danger Shield, among others, were the most hated weapons in [=TF2=] and using them would often get others to call you out for having no skill.
** The Heavy is the worst case of this because there is only one Heavy playstyle on account of how similar all his primary weapons
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** Now applies to Mann vs Machine, apparently, there is only one proper class set up for each map, and if you try to use anything else, you will be met with anger. [[https://youtu.be/IERRTAh90HA This commentary]] discusses the topic.
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** Now applies to In Mann vs Machine, apparently, there is only one proper class set up set-up for each map, and if you try to use anything else, you will be met with anger. [[https://youtu.be/IERRTAh90HA This commentary]] discusses the topic.
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** Also present in a meta sort of Player Archetype. Good luck finding a server without an Anger-wearing, Strange Sniper Rifle shooting Sniper.
** You'd be hard-pressed to find someone who prefers the stock Shotgun on any of the classes that can equip it, especially in pubs. For most players, it's either teetering on the brink of being a MasterOfNone, or accentuating the "boring" in BoringButPractical too much to be fun.
*** Soldier's Shotgun is an incredibly useful Pyro deterrent and a backup weapon to swap to when he runs out of loaded rockets with his slow-to-reload primaries, but most players either use one of the backpacks or the Gunboats instead.
*** Pyro's Shotgun can easily decide duels against other Pyros, layer on chip damage to enemies barely outside their range, and burst 90 damage at close range when used in tandem with their Flame Thrower. Their Flare Gun is more commonly used instead, being better at longer range and more satisfying to use via its critical hits, and the runner-up weapon for them is the Panic Attack with its faster {{combo|s}} and higher close range damage.
*** Heavy's Shotgun is easily outclassed by his utility foods. His Minigun is already such an impressive damage dealer at close range, which redundifies his Shotgun.
*** Engineer's Shotgun lets him defend his buildings from enemies and can reliably let him win [=1v1=] fights if he gets the drop. But many players orient themselves around their buildings, so the Rescue Ranger is a must-pick for them, and for anyone who plays more aggressively, the Frontier Justice, Widowmaker, and Panic Attack fill that niche better.
** If you're playing 6's your team will consist of two Soldiers (One having Gunboats), two Scouts, a Medic and a Demoman. The other five classes are used infrequently [[note]]Pyro, Heavy, and Engy to defend last or guard chokepoints, and Sniper to kill off high-value targets like Medics. Spy sees the least use of all of the mercs, due to his status as a surprise pick - if he's played for more than one stab, the enemy wises up quickly and starts spychecking[[/note]] but most of the time it will be the same team comp. This has significantly hurt Team Fortress 2 competitive popularity because while it's seen by many as the most interesting Team Fortress 2 experience to watch it's also turn off people who main the five other classes feeling as though they were excluded from it, and somewhat goes against the class-based gameplay and item switching mechanics the game was based off. Highlander[[note]] a 9v9 with each team having only one class each[[/note]] has mostly come about because of these complaints.
** You'd be hard-pressed to find someone who prefers the stock Shotgun on any of the classes that can equip it, especially in pubs. For most players, it's either teetering on the brink of being a MasterOfNone, or accentuating the "boring" in BoringButPractical too much to be fun.
*** Soldier's Shotgun is an incredibly useful Pyro deterrent and a backup weapon to swap to when he runs out of loaded rockets with his slow-to-reload primaries, but most players either use one of the backpacks or the Gunboats instead.
*** Pyro's Shotgun can easily decide duels against other Pyros, layer on chip damage to enemies barely outside their range, and burst 90 damage at close range when used in tandem with their Flame Thrower. Their Flare Gun is more commonly used instead, being better at longer range and more satisfying to use via its critical hits, and the runner-up weapon for them is the Panic Attack with its faster {{combo|s}} and higher close range damage.
*** Heavy's Shotgun is easily outclassed by his utility foods. His Minigun is already such an impressive damage dealer at close range, which redundifies his Shotgun.
*** Engineer's Shotgun lets him defend his buildings from enemies and can reliably let him win [=1v1=] fights if he gets the drop. But many players orient themselves around their buildings, so the Rescue Ranger is a must-pick for them, and for anyone who plays more aggressively, the Frontier Justice, Widowmaker, and Panic Attack fill that niche better.
** If you're playing 6's your team will consist of two Soldiers (One having Gunboats), two Scouts, a Medic and a Demoman. The other five classes are used infrequently [[note]]Pyro, Heavy, and Engy to defend last or guard chokepoints, and Sniper to kill off high-value targets like Medics. Spy sees the least use of all of the mercs, due to his status as a surprise pick - if he's played for more than one stab, the enemy wises up quickly and starts spychecking[[/note]] but most of the time it will be the same team comp. This has significantly hurt Team Fortress 2 competitive popularity because while it's seen by many as the most interesting Team Fortress 2 experience to watch it's also turn off people who main the five other classes feeling as though they were excluded from it, and somewhat goes against the class-based gameplay and item switching mechanics the game was based off. Highlander[[note]] a 9v9 with each team having only one class each[[/note]] has mostly come about because of these complaints.
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*** Soldier's Shotgun is an incredibly useful Pyro deterrent and a backup weapon to swap to when he runs out of loaded rockets with his slow-to-reload primaries, but most players either use one of the backpacks
*** Pyro's Shotgun can easily decide duels against other Pyros, layer on chip damage to enemies barely outside their range, and burst 90 damage at close range when used in tandem with their Flame Thrower. Their Flare Gun is more commonly used instead, being
*** Heavy's Shotgun is easily outclassed by his utility foods. His Minigun is already such an impressive damage dealer at close range, which redundifies his Shotgun.
*** Engineer's Shotgun lets him defend his buildings from enemies and can reliably let him win [=1v1=] fights if he gets the drop. But many players orient themselves around their buildings, so
** If you're playing
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** The ''{{VideoGame/Paladins}}'' and [=TF2=] community are very friendly with each other, largely in part due to being a free-to-play hero shooter on Steam, has a decent difficulty curve to get used to (the card system in place of swappable weapons to shake up the playstyle of a given character). It also helps ''Paladins'' got a skin that has Barik be turned into '''The Engineer''' (with Grant Goodeve as the VA!), which definitely made the two fandoms all too happy to get along with each other.
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** The ''{{VideoGame/Paladins}}'' and [=TF2=] community are very friendly with each other, largely in part due to being a free-to-play hero shooter on Steam, has having a decent difficulty curve to get used to (the card and Talents system in place of swappable weapons to shake up the playstyle of a given character).character), and generally bonding over the comparisons they got between themselves and ''Overwatch''. It also helps ''Paladins'' got a skin that has Barik be turned into '''The Engineer''' (with Grant Goodeve as the VA!), which definitely made the two fandoms all too happy to get along with each other.
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*** Second, it running in userspace has a very big downside; not installing itself as a driver may be better for the end-users' peace of mind and security, but it also means it cannot easily detect any cheating tools running at the kernel level, which is precisely why other solutions like [=EAC=], [=Battleye=] and [=FACEIT=] do this to begin with. Valve have tried throwing machine learning at the problem, with some success initially, but no long-term results that would satisfy players, to the point where many players are convinced they cannot fix the problem.
*** Third, there's very little players can do to effectively report cheaters, and while the game has a replay system, it can't be used in conjuction with reports; something [=CS:GO=] (and later, [=CS2=] via an update) ''can'' do with its Overwatch system.
*** And finally, ban waves seem a good idea on the surface, except that these sniper bots ruining games are automated as they used dummy or stolen accounts, meaning if a large swathe of bots get banned, then more bots will be spun up by the cheaters to compensate not long after, meaning the status quo never changes, and players are put off from participating in matches.
*** Third, there's very little players can do to effectively report cheaters, and while the game has a replay system, it can't be used in conjuction with reports; something [=CS:GO=] (and later, [=CS2=] via an update) ''can'' do with its Overwatch system.
*** And finally, ban waves seem a good idea on the surface, except that these sniper bots ruining games are automated as they used dummy or stolen accounts, meaning if a large swathe of bots get banned, then more bots will be spun up by the cheaters to compensate not long after, meaning the status quo never changes, and players are put off from participating in matches.
to:
*** Second, it running in userspace has a very big downside; not installing itself as a driver may be better for the end-users' peace of mind and security, mind, but it also means it cannot easily detect any cheating tools running at the kernel level, which is precisely why ''why'' other solutions like [=EAC=], [=Battleye=] and [=FACEIT=] do this to begin with. Valve have tried throwing machine learning at the problem, with some success initially, but no long-term results that would satisfy players, to the point where many players are convinced they cannot fix the problem.
*** Third, there's very little players can do to effectively reportcheaters, and while cheaters. While the game has a replay system, it can't be used in conjuction conjunction with reports; something [=CS:GO=] (and later, [=CS2=] via an update) ''can'' do with its Overwatch system.
*** And finally, ban waves seem a good idea on the surface, except that these sniper bots ruining games are automated as they used dummy or stolen accounts, meaning if a large swathe of bots get banned, then more bots will be spun up by the cheaters to compensate not long after, meaning the status quo never changes, and players are just put off from participating in matches.
*** Third, there's very little players can do to effectively report
*** And finally, ban waves seem a good idea on the surface, except that these sniper bots ruining games are automated as they used dummy or stolen accounts, meaning if a large swathe of bots get banned, then more bots will be spun up by the cheaters to compensate not long after, meaning the status quo never changes, and players are just put off from participating in matches.
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* VindicatedByHistory: When the game started to get new weapons [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks the community was less than impressed.]] It didn't help that a lot of them were seen as imbalanced, and people would often be chastised for using any of them (with a few exceptions, like the Kritzkrieg). Years later, the community all but demands new weapons with every major update.
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*** Firstly, [=VAC=] straight-up ''does not work on [=TF2=]''. As of 2024, it has been ineffective at deterring cheaters due to a full-on Bot Crisis that started in 2020 specifically co-ordinated by cheaters and hackers to make the game hard to play by legitimate players. Each match, a whole gaggle of Snipers join a game with perfect aim and kill everyone they see, and then leave again, and the cycle would continue, filling up matches with, and even if they're all banned, the matchmaker now has to work overtime to find suitable replacement players to fill the teams again. This problem has persisted to this day, making playing casual servers borderline frustrating in some regions, and outright impossible in others.
to:
*** Firstly, [=VAC=] straight-up ''does not work on [=TF2=]''. As of 2024, it has been ineffective at deterring cheaters due to a full-on Bot Crisis that started in 2020 specifically co-ordinated by cheaters and hackers to make the game hard to play by legitimate players. Each match, a whole gaggle of Snipers join a game with perfect aim and kill everyone they see, and then leave again, and the cycle would continue, filling up matches with, and even with more bots. Even if they're all banned, voted off and reported, the matchmaker now has to work overtime to find suitable replacement players to fill the teams again.again...which can include bots. This problem has persisted to this day, making playing casual servers borderline frustrating in some regions, and outright impossible in others.
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** Valve Anti-Cheat. While not specific to [=TF2=] (as it's also used on [[VideoGame/CounterStrike CS2]] and other Valve games), but [=TF2=] has gotten the brunt of its limitations and problems. Unlike any other anti cheat on the market, it runs in userspace, not on the kernel level, and relies on manual ban waves triggered by Valve every so often to cull [=TF2=] of cheaters. Three issues with this approach:
*** Firstly, [=VAC=] just straight-up ''does not work on [=TF2=]''. As of 2024, it has been ineffective at deterring cheaters due to a full-on Bot Crisis that started in 2020 specifically co-ordinated by cheaters and hackers to make the game hard to play by legitimate players. Each match, a whole gaggle of Snipers join a game with perfect aim and kill everyone they see, and then leave again, and the cycle would continue. This problem has persisted to this day, making playing casual servers borderline frustrating in some regions, and outright impossible in others.
*** Firstly, [=VAC=] just straight-up ''does not work on [=TF2=]''. As of 2024, it has been ineffective at deterring cheaters due to a full-on Bot Crisis that started in 2020 specifically co-ordinated by cheaters and hackers to make the game hard to play by legitimate players. Each match, a whole gaggle of Snipers join a game with perfect aim and kill everyone they see, and then leave again, and the cycle would continue. This problem has persisted to this day, making playing casual servers borderline frustrating in some regions, and outright impossible in others.
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** Valve Anti-Cheat. While not specific to [=TF2=] (as it's also used on in [[VideoGame/CounterStrike CS2]] and other Valve games), but [=TF2=] has just gotten the brunt of its limitations and problems. Unlike any other anti cheat on the market, it [=VAC=] runs in userspace, not on the kernel level, and relies a lot on manual ban waves triggered by Valve every so often to cull [=TF2=] their games of cheaters. Three Four issues with this approach:
approach when it comes to [=TF2=]:
*** Firstly, [=VAC=]just straight-up ''does not work on [=TF2=]''. As of 2024, it has been ineffective at deterring cheaters due to a full-on Bot Crisis that started in 2020 specifically co-ordinated by cheaters and hackers to make the game hard to play by legitimate players. Each match, a whole gaggle of Snipers join a game with perfect aim and kill everyone they see, and then leave again, and the cycle would continue.continue, filling up matches with, and even if they're all banned, the matchmaker now has to work overtime to find suitable replacement players to fill the teams again. This problem has persisted to this day, making playing casual servers borderline frustrating in some regions, and outright impossible in others.
*** Firstly, [=VAC=]
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*** And finally, ban waves seem a good idea on the surface, except that these sniper bots ruining games are automated as they used dummy or stolen accounts, meaning if a large swathe bots get banned, then more bots will be spun up by the cheaters to compensate not soon after, meaning the status quo never changes.
to:
*** Third, there's very little players can do to effectively report cheaters, and while the game has a replay system, it can't be used in conjuction with reports; something [=CS:GO=] (and later, [=CS2=] via an update) ''can'' do with its Overwatch system.
*** And finally, ban waves seem a good idea on the surface, except that these sniper bots ruining games are automated as they used dummy or stolen accounts, meaning if a large swathe of bots get banned, then more bots will be spun up by the cheaters to compensate notsoon long after, meaning the status quo never changes.changes, and players are put off from participating in matches.
*** And finally, ban waves seem a good idea on the surface, except that these sniper bots ruining games are automated as they used dummy or stolen accounts, meaning if a large swathe of bots get banned, then more bots will be spun up by the cheaters to compensate not
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** Due to both being games released in the late 2000s that still have an active playerbase in the 2020s, there's a significant overlap between the ''[=TF2=]'' and ''Videogame/{{Minecraft}}'' fandoms.
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** Another retroactive example, the Mac version of ''Team Fortress 2'' no longer even functions due to post-2018 Apple software dropping support for 32-bit applications and Valve not updating the game to include a 64-bit version that would solve the issue (as they have done with ''VideoGame/CounterStrike: Global Offensive''), even after several years, and continuing to advertise the game as Mac-compatible. To play the game on Mac devices now requires third-party workaround programs that allow you to download the Windows version, such as [=BootCamp=] or [=GeForce=].
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** Another retroactive example, the The Mac version of ''Team Fortress 2'' was always problematic, with a long-standing memory leak issue going back to 2009, which enforced medium texture settings. It no longer even functions due to post-2018 Apple software dropping support for 32-bit applications and applications, which, while that isn't Valve's fault, Valve then not updating the game to include a 64-bit version that would solve the issue (as they have had done with ''VideoGame/CounterStrike: ''[[VideoGame/CounterStrike Counter Strike: Global Offensive''), even Offensive]]'') is something they could've done. Even after several years, and the game is continuing to advertise the game as Mac-compatible. To Mac compatible for [=TF2=] when it's still clearly broken. [[https://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=220436 Even when [=TF2=] actually received 64-bit support on 18th April, 2024]], the Mac version was conspicuously absent, something ''[=CS2=]'' also lacked when upgrading from ''Global Offensive''; the implication being that Valve don't want to make a port. Now, to play the game on Mac devices now requires devices, you require third-party workaround programs that allow you to download the Windows version, such as [=BootCamp=] or [=GeForce=].
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** A bit of a retroactive one, but the [=PS3=] and UsefulNotes/Xbox360 versions of ''[=TF2=]'' have never been updated from launch (in the case of the Xbox 360 version, it was because Microsoft [[ExecutiveMeddling demanded that updates adding content to the game absolutely MUST be paid DLC bundles]], and for the [=PS3=] version, Valve had no say in updating it since the port was made by EA, who has [[VideoGame/{{Battlefield}} bigger]] [[VideoGame/StarWarsTheOldRepublic priorities]]), making them seem incredibly bare-bones compared to the non-Console releases. Anything that files under the main page's EarlyInstallmentWeirdness applies to the console versions too.
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** A bit of a retroactive one, but the [=PS3=] and UsefulNotes/Xbox360 Platform/Xbox360 versions of ''[=TF2=]'' have never been updated from launch (in the case of the Xbox 360 version, it was because Microsoft [[ExecutiveMeddling demanded that updates adding content to the game absolutely MUST be paid DLC bundles]], and for the [=PS3=] version, Valve had no say in updating it since the port was made by EA, who has [[VideoGame/{{Battlefield}} bigger]] [[VideoGame/StarWarsTheOldRepublic priorities]]), making them seem incredibly bare-bones compared to the non-Console releases. Anything that files under the main page's EarlyInstallmentWeirdness applies to the console versions too.
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Changed line(s) 508 (click to see context) from:
* StopHavingFunGuys: Don't even ''dare'' to step into Mann Up mode unless you're very intimate with the metagame, or you'll get booted without a second thought. Playing as Sniper or Spy? Trying to utilize Medic's [[LifeDrain Mad Milk Syringes]]? Not specializing your Scout to pick up money, slow down robots or mark them for death? ''Clearly'', you don't want to win. [[WebVideo/{{STAR}} STAR_]] discusses the metagame in [[https://youtu.be/IERRTAh90HA this]] commentary, as well as deconstructing ComplacentGamingSyndrome by showing himself doing very well as a Spy and a damage-oriented Scout.
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* StopHavingFunGuys: StopHavingFunGuys:
** Don't even ''dare'' to step into Mann Up mode unless you're very intimate with the metagame, or you'll get booted without a second thought. Playing as Sniper or Spy? Trying to utilize Medic's [[LifeDrain Mad Milk Syringes]]? Not specializing your Scout to pick up money, slow down robots or mark them for death? ''Clearly'', you don't want to win. [[WebVideo/{{STAR}} STAR_]] discusses the metagame in [[https://youtu.be/IERRTAh90HA this]] commentary, as well as deconstructing ComplacentGamingSyndrome by showing himself doing very well as a Spy and a damage-orientedScout.Scout.
** Spy players in general will be mocked tirelessly because they're supposedly the "worst class in the game," despite the class having bar-none the most unique and interesting interactions in the entire game, which is why many newer players are drawn to him.
** Don't even ''dare'' to step into Mann Up mode unless you're very intimate with the metagame, or you'll get booted without a second thought. Playing as Sniper or Spy? Trying to utilize Medic's [[LifeDrain Mad Milk Syringes]]? Not specializing your Scout to pick up money, slow down robots or mark them for death? ''Clearly'', you don't want to win. [[WebVideo/{{STAR}} STAR_]] discusses the metagame in [[https://youtu.be/IERRTAh90HA this]] commentary, as well as deconstructing ComplacentGamingSyndrome by showing himself doing very well as a Spy and a damage-oriented
** Spy players in general will be mocked tirelessly because they're supposedly the "worst class in the game," despite the class having bar-none the most unique and interesting interactions in the entire game, which is why many newer players are drawn to him.
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*** This, oddly, makes the Spy both a SkillGateCharacter and DifficultButAwesome, with their usefulness being mostly dependent less on the player's own skill and more on the skill ''gap'' between them and their opponents. In the disordered environment of a pub, a talented Spy can wreak havoc and effortlessly chainstab a whole team, but when the team is coordinated, even the best Spy will have to struggle to get off even one kill. On the other hand, an unskilled Spy is notoriously a complete liability.
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*** This, oddly, makes the Spy both a SkillGateCharacter {{Skill Gate Character|s}} and DifficultButAwesome, with their usefulness being mostly dependent less on the player's own skill and more on the skill ''gap'' between them and their opponents. In the disordered environment of a pub, a talented Spy can wreak havoc and effortlessly chainstab a whole team, but when the team is coordinated, even the best Spy will have to struggle to get off even one kill. On the other hand, an unskilled Spy is notoriously a complete liability.
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*** This isn't even factoring in specific builds; '[[FanNickname the Bad Box]]' build is widely regarded as being ''the'' most hated loadout for ''any'' class in the game, because the specific items in this set give Soldier such increased chances of staying alive that he may as well not need health packs. The Black Box is a rocket launcher that sacrifices one of the rockets in his clip for giving his explosive damage a static LifeDrain effect, healing 15 health as long as it does even ScratchDamage. The Concheror is a banner that not only gives Soldier a passive regen effect, but also allows him (and nearby allies) to have a temporary burst of speed after its charge meter is filled. The Escape Plan is a melee that increases Soldier's speed while active based on how little HP he has left. All three together results in a very, ''very'' durable Soldier that can easily survive many situations he should have had no right making it out of alive, on top of still having a very potent damage output and mobility. When he does find himself in a situation he shouldn't be able to get out of even with his multiple ways to heal, he can activate the conch, pull out the Escape Plan, and nope out at speeds ''faster than the Scout''. Needless to say, this makes this specific loadout very, ''very'' irritating to fight against, with many people in the ''[=TF2=]'' community regarding it as a SkillGateCharacter. The loadout became a lot less annoying after the healing factor of the Black Box was made to scale with the damage you do, meaning that you now have to be competent with landing hits to replicate its previous healing strength (and even then against only a single target, as the healing is now capped at 20 per rocket).
to:
*** This isn't even factoring in specific builds; '[[FanNickname the Bad Box]]' build is widely regarded as being ''the'' most hated loadout for ''any'' class in the game, because the specific items in this set give Soldier such increased chances of staying alive that he may as well not need health packs. The Black Box is a rocket launcher that sacrifices one of the rockets in his clip for giving his explosive damage a static LifeDrain effect, healing 15 health as long as it does even ScratchDamage. The Concheror is a banner that not only gives Soldier a passive regen effect, but also allows him (and nearby allies) to have a temporary burst of speed after its charge meter is filled. The Escape Plan is a melee that increases Soldier's speed while active based on how little HP he has left. All three together results in a very, ''very'' durable Soldier that can easily survive many situations he should have had no right making it out of alive, on top of still having a very potent damage output and mobility. When he does find himself in a situation he shouldn't be able to get out of even with his multiple ways to heal, he can activate the conch, pull out the Escape Plan, and nope out at speeds ''faster than the Scout''. Needless to say, this makes this specific loadout very, ''very'' irritating to fight against, with many people in the ''[=TF2=]'' community regarding it as a SkillGateCharacter.{{Skill Gate Character|s}}. The loadout became a lot less annoying after the healing factor of the Black Box was made to scale with the damage you do, meaning that you now have to be competent with landing hits to replicate its previous healing strength (and even then against only a single target, as the healing is now capped at 20 per rocket).
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Changed line(s) 82 (click to see context) from:
** Because Scout is the team's youngest member and looks really small next to his big, muscular comrades, it's common to assume he's a teenager. According to the description for the Track Terrorizer, he's actually 23 (and in the comics, he's 27).
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** Because Scout is the team's youngest member and looks really small next to his big, muscular comrades, it's common to assume he's a teenager. According to the description for the Track Terrorizer, he's actually 23 (and in the later comics, he's 27).
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** For a long time, it was believed that Medic gains increased random crit chance from the damage dealt by their Medigun target. This was eventually disproven when people examined the game code and [[https://youtu.be/BzFi0iFoLoU?t=335 ran tests with debug logging enabled]].
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** Many people believe that Demoman's Grenade Launcher had 6 pipes in its clip back when the game originally launched in 2007 and the clip size was reduced to 4 in an update. While this is true for Xbox 360 version, Grenade Launcher always had 4 pipe clip in public PC builds with the first public beta from September 18, 2007 already having the nerfed clip size.
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Changed line(s) 65 (click to see context) from:
** The 2023 Smissmass maps are a stiff competition for this accolade. Special mention goes to Galleria and Turbine Center though, as while they are reskins of Nucleus and Turbine respectively, they bear very little resemblance to their namesakes, the former is converted into a Player Destruction map, and the Turbine reskin, despite being nominally holiday themed, revamps most of the textures to look more like a mall-cum-office space, with many players wishing that the map would be kept and replacing the ''original''.
to:
** The 2023 Smissmass maps are a stiff competition for this accolade. Special mention goes to Galleria and Turbine Center though, as while they are reskins of Nucleus and Turbine respectively, they bear very little resemblance to their namesakes, the former is converted into a Player Destruction map, map with what amounts to community in-joke ContinuityPorn, if there even is such a thing, and the it playing very dynamically. Meanwhile, Turbine reskin, Center, despite being nominally holiday themed, revamps most of the textures to look more like a mall-cum-office space, with many players wishing that the map would be kept and replacing the ''original''.''original'' map.
Changed line(s) 486 (click to see context) from:
** Valve Anti-Cheat. While not specific to [=TF2=] (as it's also used on [[VideoGame/CounterStrike CS2]] and other Valve games), it has gotten the brunt of the problems. Unlike any other anti cheat on the market, it runs in userspace, not on the kernel level, and relies on manual ban waves triggered by Valve every so often to cull [=TF2=] of cheaters. Three issues with this approach:
to:
** Valve Anti-Cheat. While not specific to [=TF2=] (as it's also used on [[VideoGame/CounterStrike CS2]] and other Valve games), it but [=TF2=] has gotten the brunt of the its limitations and problems. Unlike any other anti cheat on the market, it runs in userspace, not on the kernel level, and relies on manual ban waves triggered by Valve every so often to cull [=TF2=] of cheaters. Three issues with this approach:
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Changed line(s) 487,488 (click to see context) from:
*** Firstly, [=VAC=] just straight-up ''does not work in [=TF2=]'' as of 2024, and has been ineffective at deterring cheaters since the start of 2020 due to a full-on Bot Crisis specifically made to make the game hard to play, where whole gaggles of Snipers join a game with perfect aim and kill everyone they seem, and it has persisted to this day, making playing casual servers borderline frustrating in some regions, and outright impossible in others.
*** Second, it running in userspace has a very big downside; not installing itself as a driver may be better for the end-users' security, but it also means it cannot easily detect any cheating tools running at the Kernel Level, which is precisely why other solutions like [=EAC=] do this to begin with. Valve have tried throwing machine learning at the problem, with some success initially, but no long-term results that would satisfy players, to the point where many players are convinced they cannot fix the problem.
*** Second, it running in userspace has a very big downside; not installing itself as a driver may be better for the end-users' security, but it also means it cannot easily detect any cheating tools running at the Kernel Level, which is precisely why other solutions like [=EAC=] do this to begin with. Valve have tried throwing machine learning at the problem, with some success initially, but no long-term results that would satisfy players, to the point where many players are convinced they cannot fix the problem.
to:
*** Firstly, [=VAC=] just straight-up ''does not work in [=TF2=]'' as on [=TF2=]''. As of 2024, and it has been ineffective at deterring cheaters since the start of 2020 due to a full-on Bot Crisis that started in 2020 specifically made co-ordinated by cheaters and hackers to make the game hard to play, where play by legitimate players. Each match, a whole gaggles gaggle of Snipers join a game with perfect aim and kill everyone they seem, see, and it then leave again, and the cycle would continue. This problem has persisted to this day, making playing casual servers borderline frustrating in some regions, and outright impossible in others.
*** Second, it running in userspace has a very big downside; not installing itself as a driver may be better for the end-users' peace of mind and security, but it also means it cannot easily detect any cheating tools running at theKernel Level, kernel level, which is precisely why other solutions like [=EAC=] [=EAC=], [=Battleye=] and [=FACEIT=] do this to begin with. Valve have tried throwing machine learning at the problem, with some success initially, but no long-term results that would satisfy players, to the point where many players are convinced they cannot fix the problem.
*** Second, it running in userspace has a very big downside; not installing itself as a driver may be better for the end-users' peace of mind and security, but it also means it cannot easily detect any cheating tools running at the
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Changed line(s) 486,489 (click to see context) from:
** Valve Anti-Cheat. While not specific to [=TF2=] (as it's also used on [[VideoGame/CounterStrike CS2]] and other valve games as well), it has gotten the brunt of the problems. Unlike any other anti cheat on the market, it runs in userspace, not on the kernel level, and relies on manual ban waves triggered every so often to cull [=TF2=] of cheaters. Three issues with this approach:
*** Firstly, [=VAC=] just straight-up ''does not work in [=TF2=]'' as of 2024, and has been ineffective at deterring cheaters since the start of 2020 due to a full-on Bot Crisis specifically made to make the game hard to play, which persists to this day, making playing casual servers borderline frustrating in some regions, and outright impossible in others.
*** Second, it running in userspace has a very big downside; not installing itself as a driver may be better for the end-users' security, but it also means it cannot easily detect any cheating tools running at the Kernel Level, which is precisely why other solutions do this to begin with. Valve have tried throwing machine learning at the problem, with some success initially, but no long-term results that would satisfy players, to the point where many players are convinced they cannot fix the problem.
*** And finally, banwaves seem a good idea on the surface, except that these bots are automated as they used dummy or stolen accounts, meaning if a large swathe bots get banned, then more bots will be spun up by the cheaters to compensate, meaning the status quo never changes.
*** Firstly, [=VAC=] just straight-up ''does not work in [=TF2=]'' as of 2024, and has been ineffective at deterring cheaters since the start of 2020 due to a full-on Bot Crisis specifically made to make the game hard to play, which persists to this day, making playing casual servers borderline frustrating in some regions, and outright impossible in others.
*** Second, it running in userspace has a very big downside; not installing itself as a driver may be better for the end-users' security, but it also means it cannot easily detect any cheating tools running at the Kernel Level, which is precisely why other solutions do this to begin with. Valve have tried throwing machine learning at the problem, with some success initially, but no long-term results that would satisfy players, to the point where many players are convinced they cannot fix the problem.
*** And finally, banwaves seem a good idea on the surface, except that these bots are automated as they used dummy or stolen accounts, meaning if a large swathe bots get banned, then more bots will be spun up by the cheaters to compensate, meaning the status quo never changes.
to:
** Valve Anti-Cheat. While not specific to [=TF2=] (as it's also used on [[VideoGame/CounterStrike CS2]] and other valve games as well), Valve games), it has gotten the brunt of the problems. Unlike any other anti cheat on the market, it runs in userspace, not on the kernel level, and relies on manual ban waves triggered by Valve every so often to cull [=TF2=] of cheaters. Three issues with this approach:
*** Firstly, [=VAC=] just straight-up ''does not work in [=TF2=]'' as of 2024, and has been ineffective at deterring cheaters since the start of 2020 due to a full-on Bot Crisis specifically made to make the game hard to play,which persists where whole gaggles of Snipers join a game with perfect aim and kill everyone they seem, and it has persisted to this day, making playing casual servers borderline frustrating in some regions, and outright impossible in others.
*** Second, it running in userspace has a very big downside; not installing itself as a driver may be better for the end-users' security, but it also means it cannot easily detect any cheating tools running at the Kernel Level, which is precisely why other solutions like [=EAC=] do this to begin with. Valve have tried throwing machine learning at the problem, with some success initially, but no long-term results that would satisfy players, to the point where many players are convinced they cannot fix the problem.
*** And finally,banwaves ban waves seem a good idea on the surface, except that these sniper bots ruining games are automated as they used dummy or stolen accounts, meaning if a large swathe bots get banned, then more bots will be spun up by the cheaters to compensate, compensate not soon after, meaning the status quo never changes.
*** Firstly, [=VAC=] just straight-up ''does not work in [=TF2=]'' as of 2024, and has been ineffective at deterring cheaters since the start of 2020 due to a full-on Bot Crisis specifically made to make the game hard to play,
*** Second, it running in userspace has a very big downside; not installing itself as a driver may be better for the end-users' security, but it also means it cannot easily detect any cheating tools running at the Kernel Level, which is precisely why other solutions like [=EAC=] do this to begin with. Valve have tried throwing machine learning at the problem, with some success initially, but no long-term results that would satisfy players, to the point where many players are convinced they cannot fix the problem.
*** And finally,
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pothole and added VAC to Scrappy Mechanic as it seems to not be listed here.
Changed line(s) 58 (click to see context) from:
** After the 2020 bot crisis (which is still somewhat ongoing) there have been some genuine debates over whether or not Sniper fits into ''[=TF2=]'s'' class design well, with no sign of a consensus being formed. One side of the discussion claims he's too overpowered even without aimbots involved, as he's the ''only'' long-ranged class in the game. Every other class performs best in mid-to-close range combat; this often means the best counter to a good Sniper is another good Sniper, which isn't always the easiest person to find in a public server. Meanwhile, the other side argues that, when played fairly, Sniper needs genuine skill to be effective, and his present game balance shouldn't be punished for the hackers' actions. Sniper's inconsistent-to-poor performance in close-range combat is one of the most commonly cited points in favor of this argument, as it gives the other classes some critical opportunities to deal with him.
to:
** After the 2020 bot crisis (which is still somewhat ongoing) '''still''' ongoing four years later) there have been some genuine debates over whether or not Sniper fits into ''[=TF2=]'s'' class design well, with no sign of a consensus being formed. One side of the discussion claims he's too overpowered even without aimbots involved, as he's the ''only'' long-ranged class in the game. Every other class performs best in mid-to-close range combat; this often means the best counter to a good Sniper is another good Sniper, which isn't always the easiest person to find in a public server. Meanwhile, the other side argues that, when played fairly, Sniper needs genuine skill to be effective, and his present game balance shouldn't be punished for the hackers' actions. Sniper's inconsistent-to-poor performance in close-range combat is one of the most commonly cited points in favor of this argument, as it gives the other classes some critical opportunities to deal with him.
Changed line(s) 462,463 (click to see context) from:
*** On the other hand, [[StopHavingFunGuys some people]] tend to complain about servers that allow ''more'' than 6 people at once. Since all the Mann VS Machine missions were created with a 6-player team in mind, having more basically makes it easier, even if you completely ignore any strategy or tactics (you just overpower the robots). Same with servers that give bonus cash at the beginning.
*** Or how about attempting to join a server with a group, and then getting kicked for no apparent reason? Okay, but you can just rejoin your group (assuming at least one of them is a friend) through the server browser, or accepting an invite from someone in the group? Nope, ad hoc connections are not allowed, but some random player can join through the queue through dumb luck, essentially locking you out if you try to join through the queue.
*** Or how about attempting to join a server with a group, and then getting kicked for no apparent reason? Okay, but you can just rejoin your group (assuming at least one of them is a friend) through the server browser, or accepting an invite from someone in the group? Nope, ad hoc connections are not allowed, but some random player can join through the queue through dumb luck, essentially locking you out if you try to join through the queue.
to:
*** On the other hand, [[StopHavingFunGuys some people]] people tend to complain about servers that allow ''more'' than 6 people at once. Since all the Mann VS Machine missions were created with a 6-player team in mind, having more basically makes it easier, even if you completely ignore any strategy or tactics (you just overpower the robots). Same with servers that give bonus cash at the beginning.
*** Or how about attempting to join a server with a group, and then getting kicked for no apparent reason? Okay, but you can justrejoin re-join your group (assuming at least one of them is a friend) through the server browser, or accepting an invite from someone in the group? Nope, ad hoc connections are not allowed, but some random player can join through the queue through dumb luck, essentially locking you out if you try to join through the queue.
*** Or how about attempting to join a server with a group, and then getting kicked for no apparent reason? Okay, but you can just
Changed line(s) 465,470 (click to see context) from:
** The SetBonus mechanic is widely hated by some for several reasons:
---> 1: In addition to the weapons, many of them required a hat in order to gain their effect, and hats are ''much'' harder (or more expensive) to find than weapons. It doesn't help that only two of them actually have a downside when the hats are equipped.
---> 2: Since the set bonus can only work if all the items are equipped, this discouraged players from using any of them without the others, limiting player variety.
---> 3: Because these weapons had to be balanced together as a set, this often meant one of them was overpowered or underpowered by itself.
---> 4: It was difficult to determine if someone was actually using the set bonus since not every item would be visible, e.g. players couldn't tell if the Scout had extra health or if the Sniper was immune to headshots.
*** This was such an issue that Valve decided to change it so the set bonus was split across the individual weapons, while the sets would provide a new bonus that didn't affect gameplay balance.
---> 1: In addition to the weapons, many of them required a hat in order to gain their effect, and hats are ''much'' harder (or more expensive) to find than weapons. It doesn't help that only two of them actually have a downside when the hats are equipped.
---> 2: Since the set bonus can only work if all the items are equipped, this discouraged players from using any of them without the others, limiting player variety.
---> 3: Because these weapons had to be balanced together as a set, this often meant one of them was overpowered or underpowered by itself.
---> 4: It was difficult to determine if someone was actually using the set bonus since not every item would be visible, e.g. players couldn't tell if the Scout had extra health or if the Sniper was immune to headshots.
*** This was such an issue that Valve decided to change it so the set bonus was split across the individual weapons, while the sets would provide a new bonus that didn't affect gameplay balance.
to:
** The SetBonus mechanic is widely hated by some disliked for several reasons:
---> *** 1: In addition to the weapons, many of them required a hat in order to gain their effect, and hats are ''much'' harder (or more expensive) to find than weapons. It doesn't help that only two of them actually have a downside when the hats are equipped.
---> *** 2: Since the set bonus can only work if all the items are equipped, this discouraged players from using any of them without the others, limiting player variety.
---> *** 3: Because these weapons had to be balanced together as a set, this often meant one of them was overpowered or underpowered by itself.
---> *** 4: It was difficult to determine if someone was actually using the set bonus since not every item would be visible, e.g. players couldn't tell if the Scout had extra health or if the Sniper was immune to headshots.
***headshots. This was such an issue that Valve decided to change it so the set bonus was split across the individual weapons, while the sets would provide a new bonus that didn't affect gameplay balance.
***
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** Souls in halloween events take a couple seconds after they spawn to make their way to you. If you die during that brief period, you won't be able to collect the soul(s). Usually a mild inconvenience, but becomes very annoying during contracts, as collecting souls is the primary way of earning points. Capturing a control point or defeating a halloween boss will drop a ton of souls to significantly speed up the contract, but if you die right when that happens, you won't earn a single point of progress.
to:
** Souls in halloween Halloween events take a couple seconds after they spawn to make their way to you. If you die during that brief period, you won't be able to collect the soul(s). Usually a mild inconvenience, but becomes very annoying during contracts, as collecting souls is the primary way of earning points. Capturing a control point or defeating a halloween Halloween boss will drop a ton of souls to significantly speed up the contract, but if you die right when that happens, you won't earn a single point of progress.progress.
** Valve Anti-Cheat. While not specific to [=TF2=] (as it's also used on [[VideoGame/CounterStrike CS2]] and other valve games as well), it has gotten the brunt of the problems. Unlike any other anti cheat on the market, it runs in userspace, not on the kernel level, and relies on manual ban waves triggered every so often to cull [=TF2=] of cheaters. Three issues with this approach:
*** Firstly, [=VAC=] just straight-up ''does not work in [=TF2=]'' as of 2024, and has been ineffective at deterring cheaters since the start of 2020 due to a full-on Bot Crisis specifically made to make the game hard to play, which persists to this day, making playing casual servers borderline frustrating in some regions, and outright impossible in others.
*** Second, it running in userspace has a very big downside; not installing itself as a driver may be better for the end-users' security, but it also means it cannot easily detect any cheating tools running at the Kernel Level, which is precisely why other solutions do this to begin with. Valve have tried throwing machine learning at the problem, with some success initially, but no long-term results that would satisfy players, to the point where many players are convinced they cannot fix the problem.
*** And finally, banwaves seem a good idea on the surface, except that these bots are automated as they used dummy or stolen accounts, meaning if a large swathe bots get banned, then more bots will be spun up by the cheaters to compensate, meaning the status quo never changes.
** Valve Anti-Cheat. While not specific to [=TF2=] (as it's also used on [[VideoGame/CounterStrike CS2]] and other valve games as well), it has gotten the brunt of the problems. Unlike any other anti cheat on the market, it runs in userspace, not on the kernel level, and relies on manual ban waves triggered every so often to cull [=TF2=] of cheaters. Three issues with this approach:
*** Firstly, [=VAC=] just straight-up ''does not work in [=TF2=]'' as of 2024, and has been ineffective at deterring cheaters since the start of 2020 due to a full-on Bot Crisis specifically made to make the game hard to play, which persists to this day, making playing casual servers borderline frustrating in some regions, and outright impossible in others.
*** Second, it running in userspace has a very big downside; not installing itself as a driver may be better for the end-users' security, but it also means it cannot easily detect any cheating tools running at the Kernel Level, which is precisely why other solutions do this to begin with. Valve have tried throwing machine learning at the problem, with some success initially, but no long-term results that would satisfy players, to the point where many players are convinced they cannot fix the problem.
*** And finally, banwaves seem a good idea on the surface, except that these bots are automated as they used dummy or stolen accounts, meaning if a large swathe bots get banned, then more bots will be spun up by the cheaters to compensate, meaning the status quo never changes.
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* [[ThatOneAchievement/TeamFortress2 That One Achievement]]
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* GameBreaker: [[GameBreaker/TeamFortress2 Has its own page]].
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* ThatOneAchievement: See [[ThatOneAchievement/TeamFortress2 here]].
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Changed line(s) 544 (click to see context) from:
* ThemePairing: The Batter from ''VideoGame/{{OFF}}'' and the Scout are shipped because they both use baseball bats as weapons. Later, it became an OneTrueThreesome with the addition of Leon Kuwat from ''VisualNovel/DanganronpaTriggerHappyHavoc'', who is also a baseball player.
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* ThemePairing: The Batter from ''VideoGame/{{OFF}}'' and the Scout are shipped because they both use baseball bats as weapons. Later, it became an OneTrueThreesome with the addition of Leon Kuwat Kuwata from ''VisualNovel/DanganronpaTriggerHappyHavoc'', who is also a baseball player.
