History YMMV / TeamFortress2

18th Feb '18 4:46:51 AM PrivateerMan
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*** On the other hand, the Gas Passer has become the go-to weapon for pyros in Mann vs. Machine, since for a very cheap upgrade, it can cause coated enemies to explode in flames upon being shot, dealing up to '''thousands''' of points of damage at once, refilling the Gas Passer's charge instantly, and can be used to clear hordes of robots ''very'' quickly.
17th Feb '18 9:59:43 PM dotchan
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** Whenever the Sentry Buster appears on the field in Mann versus Machine, the Administrator warns everyone about it, and an increasingly rapid ticking sound can be heard as said Sentry Buster hones in on an ally Sentry. Play [=MvM=] long enough as an Engineer and that noise will haunt your nightmares.
16th Feb '18 7:19:15 PM Gadjiltron
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* TierInducedScrappy
** (High Tiers) While most classes in ''VideoGame/TeamFortress2'' are balanced enough to not have a major edge aganst all other classes, some classes are just better than others. In a competitive regular 6 vs. 6 match every class is limited to a maximum of two... except the Medic, the Heavy and, the Demoman, who are limited to a maximum of ''one''. [[CombatMedic The Medic]] is ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin, but as for the other two:
*** The Demoman gets a lot of hate and is regarded as overpowered by many, because both of his weapons can be spammed to hell and back. The sticky bomb launcher gets the most hate, since its bombs can be detonated in midair and thus it can be used much like a rocket launcher with twice the capacity. Most Demomen use the sticky launcher exclusively and are basically playing a faster, more effective Soldier. The few that actually use and are good with the primary grenade launcher as well are absolute terrors; a direct hit with a grenade does just as much damage as a rocket, but can bounce off walls and be lobbed from behind cover, something rockets can't do.
*** The Heavy, in regular 24-player servers, is fairly okay by himself. Sure, he has the most close-range firepower in the game and is nigh-invulnerable when [[ShootTheMedicFirst backed by a Medic]], but he's very slow and can be taken down by [[ZergRush overwhelming him]] or through [[BoomHeadshot other]] [[BackStab methods]]. When the number of players on a server drop below 10, though, he basically becomes the most powerful class as there aren't enough players on the other team to take him down. This, along with various updates to the class itself, are largely the reason that the Heavy is one of the only classes limited to one in 6 vs. 6 competitive play.
*** The Engineer using the Gunslinger, Wrangler, and/or Short Circuit. His wrench creates a slow-building, but powerful and accurate Sentry Gun...that can be fairly easily taken out by Demoman's grenades or Soldier's rockets. The Gunslinger creates an incredibly fast-building and cheap Sentry Gun that's weaker, but still just as accurate. It can shut down lighter classes (and kill heavier classes too, if they're missing some health), and if it's destroyed, the Engineer can simply drop another one and have it firing within ''seconds''. The Wrangler puts a DeflectorShield around the Sentry, effectively tripling its total health, at the cost of the Engineer having to stand near it and manually control it. However, this manual control allows him to prioritize targets (ShootTheMedicFirst, anyone?) as well as significantly increasing the Sentry's already fast rate of fire. The Short Circuit eats into the Engineer's precious metal supply, but allows him to harmlessly vaporize any incoming rockets or grenades. This makes it almost trivially easy to defend against two of the main anti-Engineer classes, Soldier and Demoman.
*** Nobody better sits on the higher tier throne than the [[FanNickname crown price of douche baggery]] himself; the Scout, not so affectionally called [[FanNickname Scunts]] by most of the player base. While he's [[DifficultButAwesome extremely difficult to master, the results are well worth it]], as general consencous is that a good Scout main effectively ''has no major weaknesses''. Low health? Means nothing if the enemy ''can't hit you'' in the first place. Normally this means the Scout has to hit like a fly, right? Nope! The stock scattershot is ''extremely'' good, able to three-shot a non-overhealed ''Heavy'' if he hits all his meatshots. It's also worth noting; ''every other viable primary sidegrade the Scout had eventually had to be nerfed into the ground for making him '''too good'''''. His secondaries are also great; the pocket pistol allowing him to [[LifeDrain drain health]] from his enemies he hits and heal himself, helping negate his low HP penalty, while the mad milk is an even more potent health drain that ''also'' lets his ''teammates'' heal off of any enemy he hits with it, while also giving him a way to extinguish afterburn. His melee weapons may be weak but it's a non-issue since most mainly use the bonk bat, a bat with the ability to give the Scout a ''triple jump'' while it's out, further increasing his mobility. His 'hard counter', the Engineer? Virtually non-existent in sixes, since the time needed to set up his buildings is extremely crucial and with so little teammates to guard him in sixes, he very rarely gets to set up, ontop of both teams having Medic's by default, meaning an Uber push makes all his effort worthless. All this means the Scout can reek absolute havoc in it. Even in pubs where Engineer's can set up easier, most smart Scout mains now how to bait the Engineer out from the nest and take him down, and how to time their peeks to the Sentries animation to avoid most damage while they slowly chip away at with the scattershot. About the only thing that can stop a good Scout main is an entire nest of sentries; at which point most will focus on dealing with the rest of the team so their team can push and wipe the sentries out. It says a ''lot'' that while most of the other good classes sit in S tier on most competitive lists, Scout is the ''only'' class to have an entire tier to himself most of the time, sitting solidly at ''SS'' tier in competitive play.
** (Both Tiers) Every class in ''VideoGame/TeamFortress2'' gets this one way or another, but three stand out:
*** Pyro, because that Pyro is overpowered in casual play, but underpowered in competitive play - in casual, Pyro's good flank ability turns uncoordinated pub teams to ash and afterburn is tougher to extinguish due to higher player counts scrambling for healthpacks, but in competitive higher team coordination diminishes Pyro's ability to ambush and more prominence of Medics snuffs out any afterburn to just a piddling summer breese. Sadly, this makes Pyro the very definition of a {{Scrub}} class. Later updates have turned Pyro into less of a close-range beast and given it more of a support role as an airblast class. [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks This went about as well as can be expected.]]
*** It doesnít help when the Pyro does get something useful for competitive play itís hated by a portion of the community for being overpowered (Degreaser, Axetinguisher, Reserve Shooter, The Phlogistinator) but when itís nerfed [[UnpleasableFanbase The other portion of the community then complain that the class is useless.]] This has made the Pyro class a roller coaster in terms of balancing for years.
*** The Spy gets it the worst of any class in the game. Sure, he's the very definition of DifficultButAwesome: a good Spy can absolutely terrorize a team and cause enough discord behind their lines to allow your team to push but ''everything'' the Spy can do, another class can do except ''better''. Getting key picks? The Scout and Sniper are more effective since the Spy's disguises rarely ever fools anyone and while his cloak can help him easily get behind enemy lines, the extra mobility of the Scout can effectively allow him to keep out of sight of the enemy and take paths the Spy can't to get behind enemy lines, ''on top'' of the fact that he isn't completely hosed if an enemy turns around before he can flank them thanks to his scattershot being very powerful, able to even three shot a ''heavy'' if he hits all three meatshots, ontop of his extra mobility making him hard to hit should he find himself in a bad situation. The Sniper, meanwhile, can get [[OneHitKO one hit kills]] ''without'' him needing to put himself in harm's way thanks to his long range. Sentry busting? Both Solider and Demoman can do that better ''without'' sacrificing survivability or damage output. In particular, Solider's Direct Hit can ''two shot'' a fully healed sentry before the Engineer even knows what happened while the Demoman's stickies can one-shot it if he stacks enough of them, on top of his explosion radius often hitting the Engineer with splash damage while attempting to heal his sentry, often killing him in the process. What if the sentry's in an awkward place neither of them can easily hit, or there's a giant sentry nest going on? Sure, the spy's disguise keeps the sentry from auto targeting them but a smart Engineer would never let the Spy get close enough to sap them in the first place and target them first if they do start sapping the sentry, ''especially'' if several Engineers have plomped their nest in the same area. Get a backstab on the Engineer first? Well, you better hope he was close to his sentry and/or you have quick reflexes to sap it because backstabs cause you to drop your disguise, which usually results in the sentry pelting your face with missiles and sending you back to spawn, or in the case of a nest, causes at least three other angry Texans to be breathing down your neck with shotguns at the ready. Meanwhile, the Medic's Uber charge can often cause a massive push to destroy the sentry plus any others in an area being camped, on top of increasing the survivability of the entire team in the process. In short, while the Spy isn't a ''bad'' class per say, there's often very little reason to pick it over any other class. It doesn't help that Spy is ''also'' most new players favorite class, which often results in being placed on teams with at least four Spies perpetually waiting to respawn.
*** The Sniper probably gets it even worse than the Spy, because he's the long-range class in a game where the vast majority of combat occurs at low-mid range. This means that your interactions with a Sniper on the enemy team will consist of either him seeing you and shooting you, or you seeing him, you firing a few futile shots from your ShortRangeShotgun, and him shooting you. Worse, since Snipers usually stay a good distance from the frontlines (bar things like Huntsman/Jarate Snipers), the time you'll most likely notice the Snipers on ''your'' team is when you check the class count and realize that [[CripplingOverspecialization your team has five Snipers on it.]] This leads to Snipers being stereotyped as [[IneffectualLoner lone-wolf]], aimbotting, KDR-checking children birthed from the deepest recesses of ''VideoGame/ModernWarfare''... which is, ironically, pretty much the opposite of [[FriendlySniper his canon characterization.]]
*** Additionally, a ''massive'' percentage of Sniper players happen to [[SniperDuel duel each other]] instead of picking off key targets, effectively turning both teams' Snipers into TheLoad.
** (Low Tier) Prior to the Two Cities Update, frequent Mann Up players in ''VideoGame/TeamFortress2'''s Mann Vs. Machine Mode consider the Medic to be the worst class to play, largely because Engineer is actually better at healing with his Dispenser[[labelnote:Why?]]Dispenser have the advantage of healing any number of people at once, while Medics can only heal one. Medics have the advantage of mobility, overheal, and [[LimitBreak uber]], but none of those are very useful in a [[HoldTheLine wave-defense game mode]] because you'll be trying to stay in the same location, the AI isn't coordinated enough to focus attacks at once (which are what makes overheal useful), and even with upgrades ubers don't happen frequently enough to face the loads and loads of different enemies.[[/labelnote]] and can do lots of damage with his sentry gun at the same time. It doesn't help that Mann Vs. Machine only allows for 6 players at once and one unskilled and/or ill-equipped player can cost the entire team the game. Players going Medic are often the most likely to be kicked from games if they refuse to switch class, or even BEFORE they get a chance to switch if they don't have any previous Mann Up Tours displayed (which is the quickest way to identify new players to the mode). He was [[RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap saved]] in the Two Cities update, which gave him such a massive buff[[labelnote:Specifically]]He was given the ability to revive players, a shield that can block incoming damage, and cheaper, better upgrades.[[/labelnote]] that he's now considered viable instead of or in addition to an Engineer.
*** [[CloseRangeCombatant Demoknights]] and [[HitAndRunTactics Snipers with the Huntsman]] are considered to be this forever. Demoknights are believed to be inferior Scouts/Spies and Huntsman Snipers lack any explosive headshot damage. This is a consequence of [[ComplacentGamingSyndrome nobody knowing how to play these classes effectively]] -- Demoknights actually have the highest damage-per-second in all of [=MvM=] once they have some upgrades, and can tank ridiculous amount of damage. Huntsman Snipers are simply designed for a completely different game mode.

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* TierInducedScrappy
** (High Tiers) While most classes in ''VideoGame/TeamFortress2'' are balanced enough to not have a major edge aganst all other classes, some classes are just better than others. In a competitive regular 6 vs. 6 match every class is limited to a maximum of two... except the Medic, the Heavy and, the Demoman, who are limited to a maximum of ''one''. [[CombatMedic The Medic]] is ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin, but as for the other two:
*** The Demoman gets a lot of hate and is regarded as overpowered by many, because both of his weapons can be spammed to hell and back. The sticky bomb launcher gets the most hate, since its bombs can be detonated in midair and thus it can be used much like a rocket launcher with twice the capacity. Most Demomen use the sticky launcher exclusively and are basically playing a faster, more effective Soldier. The few that actually use and are good with the primary grenade launcher as well are absolute terrors; a direct hit with a grenade does just as much damage as a rocket, but can bounce off walls and be lobbed from behind cover, something rockets can't do.
*** The Heavy, in regular 24-player servers, is fairly okay by himself. Sure, he has the most close-range firepower in the game and is nigh-invulnerable when [[ShootTheMedicFirst backed by a Medic]], but he's very slow and can be taken down by [[ZergRush overwhelming him]] or through [[BoomHeadshot other]] [[BackStab methods]]. When the number of players on a server drop below 10, though, he basically becomes the most powerful class as there aren't enough players on the other team to take him down. This, along with various updates to the class itself, are largely the reason that the Heavy is one of the only classes limited to one in 6 vs. 6 competitive play.
*** The Engineer using the Gunslinger, Wrangler, and/or Short Circuit. His wrench creates a slow-building, but powerful and accurate Sentry Gun...that can be fairly easily taken out by Demoman's grenades or Soldier's rockets. The Gunslinger creates an incredibly fast-building and cheap Sentry Gun that's weaker, but still just as accurate. It can shut down lighter classes (and kill heavier classes too, if they're missing some health), and if it's destroyed, the Engineer can simply drop another one and have it firing within ''seconds''. The Wrangler puts a DeflectorShield around the Sentry, effectively tripling its total health, at the cost of the Engineer having to stand near it and manually control it. However, this manual control allows him to prioritize targets (ShootTheMedicFirst, anyone?) as well as significantly increasing the Sentry's already fast rate of fire. The Short Circuit eats into the Engineer's precious metal supply, but allows him to harmlessly vaporize any incoming rockets or grenades. This makes it almost trivially easy to defend against two of the main anti-Engineer classes, Soldier and Demoman.
*** Nobody better sits on the higher tier throne than the [[FanNickname crown price of douche baggery]] himself; the Scout, not so affectionally called [[FanNickname Scunts]] by most of the player base. While he's [[DifficultButAwesome extremely difficult to master, the results are well worth it]], as general consencous is that a good Scout main effectively ''has no major weaknesses''. Low health? Means nothing if the enemy ''can't hit you'' in the first place. Normally this means the Scout has to hit like a fly, right? Nope! The stock scattershot is ''extremely'' good, able to three-shot a non-overhealed ''Heavy'' if he hits all his meatshots. It's also worth noting; ''every other viable primary sidegrade the Scout had eventually had to be nerfed into the ground for making him '''too good'''''. His secondaries are also great; the pocket pistol allowing him to [[LifeDrain drain health]] from his enemies he hits and heal himself, helping negate his low HP penalty, while the mad milk is an even more potent health drain that ''also'' lets his ''teammates'' heal off of any enemy he hits with it, while also giving him a way to extinguish afterburn. His melee weapons may be weak but it's a non-issue since most mainly use the bonk bat, a bat with the ability to give the Scout a ''triple jump'' while it's out, further increasing his mobility. His 'hard counter', the Engineer? Virtually non-existent in sixes, since the time needed to set up his buildings is extremely crucial and with so little teammates to guard him in sixes, he very rarely gets to set up, ontop of both teams having Medic's by default, meaning an Uber push makes all his effort worthless. All this means the Scout can reek absolute havoc in it. Even in pubs where Engineer's can set up easier, most smart Scout mains now how to bait the Engineer out from the nest and take him down, and how to time their peeks to the Sentries animation to avoid most damage while they slowly chip away at with the scattershot. About the only thing that can stop a good Scout main is an entire nest of sentries; at which point most will focus on dealing with the rest of the team so their team can push and wipe the sentries out. It says a ''lot'' that while most of the other good classes sit in S tier on most competitive lists, Scout is the ''only'' class to have an entire tier to himself most of the time, sitting solidly at ''SS'' tier in competitive play.
** (Both Tiers) Every class in ''VideoGame/TeamFortress2'' gets this one way or another, but three stand out:
*** Pyro, because that Pyro is overpowered in casual play, but underpowered in competitive play - in casual, Pyro's good flank ability turns uncoordinated pub teams to ash and afterburn is tougher to extinguish due to higher player counts scrambling for healthpacks, but in competitive higher team coordination diminishes Pyro's ability to ambush and more prominence of Medics snuffs out any afterburn to just a piddling summer breese. Sadly, this makes Pyro the very definition of a {{Scrub}} class. Later updates have turned Pyro into less of a close-range beast and given it more of a support role as an airblast class. [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks This went about as well as can be expected.]]
*** It doesnít help when the Pyro does get something useful for competitive play itís hated by a portion of the community for being overpowered (Degreaser, Axetinguisher, Reserve Shooter, The Phlogistinator) but when itís nerfed [[UnpleasableFanbase The other portion of the community then complain that the class is useless.]] This has made the Pyro class a roller coaster in terms of balancing for years.
*** The Spy gets it the worst of any class in the game. Sure, he's the very definition of DifficultButAwesome: a good Spy can absolutely terrorize a team and cause enough discord behind their lines to allow your team to push but ''everything'' the Spy can do, another class can do except ''better''. Getting key picks? The Scout and Sniper are more effective since the Spy's disguises rarely ever fools anyone and while his cloak can help him easily get behind enemy lines, the extra mobility of the Scout can effectively allow him to keep out of sight of the enemy and take paths the Spy can't to get behind enemy lines, ''on top'' of the fact that he isn't completely hosed if an enemy turns around before he can flank them thanks to his scattershot being very powerful, able to even three shot a ''heavy'' if he hits all three meatshots, ontop of his extra mobility making him hard to hit should he find himself in a bad situation. The Sniper, meanwhile, can get [[OneHitKO one hit kills]] ''without'' him needing to put himself in harm's way thanks to his long range. Sentry busting? Both Solider and Demoman can do that better ''without'' sacrificing survivability or damage output. In particular, Solider's Direct Hit can ''two shot'' a fully healed sentry before the Engineer even knows what happened while the Demoman's stickies can one-shot it if he stacks enough of them, on top of his explosion radius often hitting the Engineer with splash damage while attempting to heal his sentry, often killing him in the process. What if the sentry's in an awkward place neither of them can easily hit, or there's a giant sentry nest going on? Sure, the spy's disguise keeps the sentry from auto targeting them but a smart Engineer would never let the Spy get close enough to sap them in the first place and target them first if they do start sapping the sentry, ''especially'' if several Engineers have plomped their nest in the same area. Get a backstab on the Engineer first? Well, you better hope he was close to his sentry and/or you have quick reflexes to sap it because backstabs cause you to drop your disguise, which usually results in the sentry pelting your face with missiles and sending you back to spawn, or in the case of a nest, causes at least three other angry Texans to be breathing down your neck with shotguns at the ready. Meanwhile, the Medic's Uber charge can often cause a massive push to destroy the sentry plus any others in an area being camped, on top of increasing the survivability of the entire team in the process. In short, while the Spy isn't a ''bad'' class per say, there's often very little reason to pick it over any other class. It doesn't help that Spy is ''also'' most new players favorite class, which often results in being placed on teams with at least four Spies perpetually waiting to respawn.
*** The Sniper probably gets it even worse than the Spy, because he's the long-range class in a game where the vast majority of combat occurs at low-mid range. This means that your interactions with a Sniper on the enemy team will consist of either him seeing you and shooting you, or you seeing him, you firing a few futile shots from your ShortRangeShotgun, and him shooting you. Worse, since Snipers usually stay a good distance from the frontlines (bar things like Huntsman/Jarate Snipers), the time you'll most likely notice the Snipers on ''your'' team is when you check the class count and realize that [[CripplingOverspecialization your team has five Snipers on it.]] This leads to Snipers being stereotyped as [[IneffectualLoner lone-wolf]], aimbotting, KDR-checking children birthed from the deepest recesses of ''VideoGame/ModernWarfare''... which is, ironically, pretty much the opposite of [[FriendlySniper his canon characterization.]]
*** Additionally, a ''massive'' percentage of Sniper players happen to [[SniperDuel duel each other]] instead of picking off key targets, effectively turning both teams' Snipers into TheLoad.
** (Low Tier) Prior to the Two Cities Update, frequent Mann Up players in ''VideoGame/TeamFortress2'''s Mann Vs. Machine Mode consider the Medic to be the worst class to play, largely because Engineer is actually better at healing with his Dispenser[[labelnote:Why?]]Dispenser have the advantage of healing any number of people at once, while Medics can only heal one. Medics have the advantage of mobility, overheal, and [[LimitBreak uber]], but none of those are very useful in a [[HoldTheLine wave-defense game mode]] because you'll be trying to stay in the same location, the AI isn't coordinated enough to focus attacks at once (which are what makes overheal useful), and even with upgrades ubers don't happen frequently enough to face the loads and loads of different enemies.[[/labelnote]] and can do lots of damage with his sentry gun at the same time. It doesn't help that Mann Vs. Machine only allows for 6 players at once and one unskilled and/or ill-equipped player can cost the entire team the game. Players going Medic are often the most likely to be kicked from games if they refuse to switch class, or even BEFORE they get a chance to switch if they don't have any previous Mann Up Tours displayed (which is the quickest way to identify new players to the mode). He was [[RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap saved]] in the Two Cities update, which gave him such a massive buff[[labelnote:Specifically]]He was given the ability to revive players, a shield that can block incoming damage, and cheaper, better upgrades.[[/labelnote]] that he's now considered viable instead of or in addition to an Engineer.
*** [[CloseRangeCombatant Demoknights]] and [[HitAndRunTactics Snipers with the Huntsman]] are considered to be this forever. Demoknights are believed to be inferior Scouts/Spies and Huntsman Snipers lack any explosive headshot damage. This is a consequence of [[ComplacentGamingSyndrome nobody knowing how to play these classes effectively]] -- Demoknights actually have the highest damage-per-second in all of [=MvM=] once they have some upgrades, and can tank ridiculous amount of damage. Huntsman Snipers are simply designed for a completely different game mode.
TierInducedScrappy: [[TierInducedScrappy/TeamFortress2 Here.]]
16th Feb '18 8:42:15 AM Bengson26
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** Don't be surprised when you find a Demoman wearing a [[https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Sultan%27s_Ceremonial turban]] and [[https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Double_Dynamite dynamite strapped to his chest]] in [[https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Aerobatics_Demonstrator a plane]] [[{{Qurac}} running around and suicide-cabering people to death]].

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** Don't be surprised when you find a Demoman wearing a [[https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Sultan%27s_Ceremonial turban]] and [[https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Double_Dynamite dynamite strapped to his chest]] in [[https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Aerobatics_Demonstrator a plane]] [[{{Qurac}} running around and suicide-cabering people to death]].death while screaming "Allahu Akbar!" in the voice chat.]]
11th Feb '18 8:31:06 AM TokoWH
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*** Nobody better sits on the higher tier throne than the [[FanNickname crown price of douche baggery]] himself; the Scout, not so affectionally called [[FanNickname Scunts]] by most of the player base. While he's [[DifficultButAwesome extremely difficult to master, the results are well worth it]], as general consencous is that a good Scout main effectively ''has no weaknesses''. Low health? Means nothing if the enemy ''can't hit you'' in the first place. Normally this means the Scout has to hit like a fly, right? Nope! The stock scattershot is ''extremely'' good, able to three-shot a non-overhealed ''Heavy'' if he hits all his meatshots. It's also worth noting; ''every other viable primary sidegrade the Scout had eventually had to be nerfed into the ground for making him '''too good'''''. His secondaries are also great; the pocket pistol allowing him to [[LifeDrain drain health]] from his enemies he hits and heal himself, helping negate his low HP penalty, while the mad milk is an even more potent health drain that ''also'' lets his ''teammates'' heal off of any enemy he hits with it, while also giving him a way to extinguish afterburn. His melee weapons may be weak but it's a non-issue since most mainly use the bonk bat, a bat with the ability to give the Scout a ''triple jump'' while it's out, further increasing his mobility. His 'hard counter', the Engineer? Virtually non-existent in sixes, since the time needed to set up his buildings is extremely crucial and with so little teammates to guard him in sixes, he very rarely gets to set up, ontop of both teams having Medic's by default, meaning an Uber push makes all his effort worthless. All this means the Scout can reek absolute havoc in it. Even in pubs where Engineer's can set up easier, most smart Scout mains now how to bait the Engineer out from the nest and take him down, and how to time their peeks to the Sentries animation to avoid most damage while they slowly chip away at with the scattershot. About the only thing that can stop a good Scout main is an entire nest of sentries; at which point most will focus on dealing with the rest of the team so their team can push and wipe the sentries out. It says a ''lot'' that while most of the other good classes sit in S tier on most competitive lists, Scout is the ''only'' class to have an entire tier to himself most of the time, sitting solidly at ''SS'' tier in competitive play.

to:

*** Nobody better sits on the higher tier throne than the [[FanNickname crown price of douche baggery]] himself; the Scout, not so affectionally called [[FanNickname Scunts]] by most of the player base. While he's [[DifficultButAwesome extremely difficult to master, the results are well worth it]], as general consencous is that a good Scout main effectively ''has no major weaknesses''. Low health? Means nothing if the enemy ''can't hit you'' in the first place. Normally this means the Scout has to hit like a fly, right? Nope! The stock scattershot is ''extremely'' good, able to three-shot a non-overhealed ''Heavy'' if he hits all his meatshots. It's also worth noting; ''every other viable primary sidegrade the Scout had eventually had to be nerfed into the ground for making him '''too good'''''. His secondaries are also great; the pocket pistol allowing him to [[LifeDrain drain health]] from his enemies he hits and heal himself, helping negate his low HP penalty, while the mad milk is an even more potent health drain that ''also'' lets his ''teammates'' heal off of any enemy he hits with it, while also giving him a way to extinguish afterburn. His melee weapons may be weak but it's a non-issue since most mainly use the bonk bat, a bat with the ability to give the Scout a ''triple jump'' while it's out, further increasing his mobility. His 'hard counter', the Engineer? Virtually non-existent in sixes, since the time needed to set up his buildings is extremely crucial and with so little teammates to guard him in sixes, he very rarely gets to set up, ontop of both teams having Medic's by default, meaning an Uber push makes all his effort worthless. All this means the Scout can reek absolute havoc in it. Even in pubs where Engineer's can set up easier, most smart Scout mains now how to bait the Engineer out from the nest and take him down, and how to time their peeks to the Sentries animation to avoid most damage while they slowly chip away at with the scattershot. About the only thing that can stop a good Scout main is an entire nest of sentries; at which point most will focus on dealing with the rest of the team so their team can push and wipe the sentries out. It says a ''lot'' that while most of the other good classes sit in S tier on most competitive lists, Scout is the ''only'' class to have an entire tier to himself most of the time, sitting solidly at ''SS'' tier in competitive play.
11th Feb '18 8:26:49 AM TokoWH
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*** Nobody better sits on the higher tier throne than the [[FanNickname crown price of douche baggery]] himself; the Scout, not so affectionally called [[FanNickname Scunts]] by most of the player base. While he's [[DifficultButAwesome extremely difficult to master, the results are well worth it]], as general consencous is that a good Scout main effectively ''has no weaknesses''. Low health? Means nothing if the enemy ''can't hit you'' in the first place. Normally this means the Scout has to hit like a fly, right? Nope! The stock scattershot is ''extremely'' good, able to three-shot a non-overhealed ''Heavy'' if he hits all his meatshots. It's also worth noting; ''every other viable primary sidegrade the Scout had eventually had to be nerfed into the ground for making him '''too good'''''. His secondaries are also great; the pocket pistol allowing him to [[HealthDrain drain health]] from his enemies he hits and heal himself, helping negate his low HP penalty, while the mad milk is an even more potent health drain that ''also'' lets his ''teammates'' heal off of any enemy he hits with it, while also giving him a way to extinguish afterburn. His melee weapons may be weak but it's a non-issue since most mainly use the bonk bat, a bat with the ability to give the Scout a ''triple jump'' while it's out, further increasing his mobility. His 'hard counter', the Engineer? Virtually non-existent in sixes, since the time needed to set up his buildings is extremely crucial and with so little teammates to guard him in sixes, he very rarely gets to set up, ontop of both teams having Medic's by default, meaning an Uber push makes all his effort worthless. All this means the Scout can reek absolute havoc in it. Even in pubs where Engineer's can set up easier, most smart Scout mains now how to bait the Engineer out from the nest and take him down, and how to time their peeks to the Sentries animation to avoid most damage while they slowly chip away at with the scattershot. About the only thing that can stop a good Scout main is an entire nest of sentries; at which point most will focus on dealing with the rest of the team so their team can push and wipe the sentries out. It says a ''lot'' that while most of the other good classes sit in S tier on most competitive lists, Scout is the ''only'' class to have an entire tier to himself most of the time, sitting solidly at ''SS'' tier in competitive play.

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*** Nobody better sits on the higher tier throne than the [[FanNickname crown price of douche baggery]] himself; the Scout, not so affectionally called [[FanNickname Scunts]] by most of the player base. While he's [[DifficultButAwesome extremely difficult to master, the results are well worth it]], as general consencous is that a good Scout main effectively ''has no weaknesses''. Low health? Means nothing if the enemy ''can't hit you'' in the first place. Normally this means the Scout has to hit like a fly, right? Nope! The stock scattershot is ''extremely'' good, able to three-shot a non-overhealed ''Heavy'' if he hits all his meatshots. It's also worth noting; ''every other viable primary sidegrade the Scout had eventually had to be nerfed into the ground for making him '''too good'''''. His secondaries are also great; the pocket pistol allowing him to [[HealthDrain [[LifeDrain drain health]] from his enemies he hits and heal himself, helping negate his low HP penalty, while the mad milk is an even more potent health drain that ''also'' lets his ''teammates'' heal off of any enemy he hits with it, while also giving him a way to extinguish afterburn. His melee weapons may be weak but it's a non-issue since most mainly use the bonk bat, a bat with the ability to give the Scout a ''triple jump'' while it's out, further increasing his mobility. His 'hard counter', the Engineer? Virtually non-existent in sixes, since the time needed to set up his buildings is extremely crucial and with so little teammates to guard him in sixes, he very rarely gets to set up, ontop of both teams having Medic's by default, meaning an Uber push makes all his effort worthless. All this means the Scout can reek absolute havoc in it. Even in pubs where Engineer's can set up easier, most smart Scout mains now how to bait the Engineer out from the nest and take him down, and how to time their peeks to the Sentries animation to avoid most damage while they slowly chip away at with the scattershot. About the only thing that can stop a good Scout main is an entire nest of sentries; at which point most will focus on dealing with the rest of the team so their team can push and wipe the sentries out. It says a ''lot'' that while most of the other good classes sit in S tier on most competitive lists, Scout is the ''only'' class to have an entire tier to himself most of the time, sitting solidly at ''SS'' tier in competitive play.
11th Feb '18 8:25:24 AM TokoWH
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** (High Tiers) While ''VideoGame/TeamFortress2'' doesn't have character tiers, in a competitive regular 6 vs. 6 match every class is limited to a maximum of two... except the Medic, the Heavy and, the Demoman, who are limited to a maximum of ''one''. [[CombatMedic The Medic]] is ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin, but as for the other two:

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** (High Tiers) While most classes in ''VideoGame/TeamFortress2'' doesn't are balanced enough to not have character tiers, in a major edge aganst all other classes, some classes are just better than others. In a competitive regular 6 vs. 6 match every class is limited to a maximum of two... except the Medic, the Heavy and, the Demoman, who are limited to a maximum of ''one''. [[CombatMedic The Medic]] is ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin, but as for the other two:


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*** Nobody better sits on the higher tier throne than the [[FanNickname crown price of douche baggery]] himself; the Scout, not so affectionally called [[FanNickname Scunts]] by most of the player base. While he's [[DifficultButAwesome extremely difficult to master, the results are well worth it]], as general consencous is that a good Scout main effectively ''has no weaknesses''. Low health? Means nothing if the enemy ''can't hit you'' in the first place. Normally this means the Scout has to hit like a fly, right? Nope! The stock scattershot is ''extremely'' good, able to three-shot a non-overhealed ''Heavy'' if he hits all his meatshots. It's also worth noting; ''every other viable primary sidegrade the Scout had eventually had to be nerfed into the ground for making him '''too good'''''. His secondaries are also great; the pocket pistol allowing him to [[HealthDrain drain health]] from his enemies he hits and heal himself, helping negate his low HP penalty, while the mad milk is an even more potent health drain that ''also'' lets his ''teammates'' heal off of any enemy he hits with it, while also giving him a way to extinguish afterburn. His melee weapons may be weak but it's a non-issue since most mainly use the bonk bat, a bat with the ability to give the Scout a ''triple jump'' while it's out, further increasing his mobility. His 'hard counter', the Engineer? Virtually non-existent in sixes, since the time needed to set up his buildings is extremely crucial and with so little teammates to guard him in sixes, he very rarely gets to set up, ontop of both teams having Medic's by default, meaning an Uber push makes all his effort worthless. All this means the Scout can reek absolute havoc in it. Even in pubs where Engineer's can set up easier, most smart Scout mains now how to bait the Engineer out from the nest and take him down, and how to time their peeks to the Sentries animation to avoid most damage while they slowly chip away at with the scattershot. About the only thing that can stop a good Scout main is an entire nest of sentries; at which point most will focus on dealing with the rest of the team so their team can push and wipe the sentries out. It says a ''lot'' that while most of the other good classes sit in S tier on most competitive lists, Scout is the ''only'' class to have an entire tier to himself most of the time, sitting solidly at ''SS'' tier in competitive play.
11th Feb '18 7:50:16 AM TokoWH
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*** The Spy gets it for being the very definition of DifficultButAwesome: Either he's one of the 1% of players who can play a spy well (and he's on the other side, terrorizing your team) or the player is one of the other 99% who should have the class disabled from their character select screen. Naturally, this sort will always be on your team.

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*** The Spy gets it for being the worst of any class in the game. Sure, he's the very definition of DifficultButAwesome: Either he's one a good Spy can absolutely terrorize a team and cause enough discord behind their lines to allow your team to push but ''everything'' the Spy can do, another class can do except ''better''. Getting key picks? The Scout and Sniper are more effective since the Spy's disguises rarely ever fools anyone and while his cloak can help him easily get behind enemy lines, the extra mobility of the 1% Scout can effectively allow him to keep out of sight of the enemy and take paths the Spy can't to get behind enemy lines, ''on top'' of the fact that he isn't completely hosed if an enemy turns around before he can flank them thanks to his scattershot being very powerful, able to even three shot a ''heavy'' if he hits all three meatshots, ontop of his extra mobility making him hard to hit should he find himself in a bad situation. The Sniper, meanwhile, can get [[OneHitKO one hit kills]] ''without'' him needing to put himself in harm's way thanks to his long range. Sentry busting? Both Solider and Demoman can do that better ''without'' sacrificing survivability or damage output. In particular, Solider's Direct Hit can ''two shot'' a fully healed sentry before the Engineer even knows what happened while the Demoman's stickies can one-shot it if he stacks enough of them, on top of his explosion radius often hitting the Engineer with splash damage while attempting to heal his sentry, often killing him in the process. What if the sentry's in an awkward place neither of them can easily hit, or there's a giant sentry nest going on? Sure, the spy's disguise keeps the sentry from auto targeting them but a smart Engineer would never let the Spy get close enough to sap them in the first place and target them first if they do start sapping the sentry, ''especially'' if several Engineers have plomped their nest in the same area. Get a backstab on the Engineer first? Well, you better hope he was close to his sentry and/or you have quick reflexes to sap it because backstabs cause you to drop your disguise, which usually results in the sentry pelting your face with missiles and sending you back to spawn, or in the case of a nest, causes at least three other angry Texans to be breathing down your neck with shotguns at the ready. Meanwhile, the Medic's Uber charge can often cause a massive push to destroy the sentry plus any others in an area being camped, on top of increasing the survivability of the entire team in the process. In short, while the Spy isn't a ''bad'' class per say, there's often very little reason to pick it over any other class. It doesn't help that Spy is ''also'' most new players who can play a spy well (and he's favorite class, which often results in being placed on the other side, terrorizing your team) or the player is one of the other 99% who should have the class disabled from their character select screen. Naturally, this sort will always be on your team.teams with at least four Spies perpetually waiting to respawn.
6th Feb '18 6:04:48 AM Gadjiltron
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* PanderingToTheBase: Valve takes a ''lot'' of stuff in ''[=TF=]2'' from the community.

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* PanderingToTheBase: Valve takes a ''lot'' of stuff in ''[=TF=]2'' ''[=TF2=]'' from the community.



** Autobalance. Tales have been told of people switched to the losing side at the last second. They are never positive. It's even possible get autobalanced while capturing a point, carrying the intelligence, or just after destroying a major sentry nest, meaning all you did was help "the other team" win.

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** Autobalance. Tales have been told of people switched to the losing side at the last second. They are never positive. It's even possible get autobalanced while capturing a point, carrying the intelligence, or just after destroying a major sentry nest, meaning all you did was help "the other team" your new opponents win.



--> 1: in addition to the weapons, many of them required a hat in order to gain their effect, and hats are ''much'' harder (or more expensive) to find than weapons. It doesn't help that only two of them actually have a downside when the hats are equipped.
--> 2: since the set bonus can only work if all the items are equipped, this discouraged players from using any of them without the others, limiting player variety.
--> 3: because these weapons had to be balanced together as a set, this often meant one of them was overpowered or underpowered by itself.
--> 4: it was difficult to determine if someone was actually using the set bonus since not every item would be visible, e.g. players couldn't tell if the Scout had extra health or if the Sniper was immune to headshots.
*** This was such an issue that Valve decided to change it so the weapons themselves would have the bonus while the sets would provide a new bonus that didn't affect gameplay balance.

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--> ---> 1: in In addition to the weapons, many of them required a hat in order to gain their effect, and hats are ''much'' harder (or more expensive) to find than weapons. It doesn't help that only two of them actually have a downside when the hats are equipped.
--> ---> 2: since Since the set bonus can only work if all the items are equipped, this discouraged players from using any of them without the others, limiting player variety.
--> ---> 3: because Because these weapons had to be balanced together as a set, this often meant one of them was overpowered or underpowered by itself.
--> ---> 4: it It was difficult to determine if someone was actually using the set bonus since not every item would be visible, e.g. players couldn't tell if the Scout had extra health or if the Sniper was immune to headshots.
*** This was such an issue that Valve decided to change it so the weapons themselves would have the set bonus was split across the individual weapons, while the sets would provide a new bonus that didn't affect gameplay balance.



** The Hot Hand is easily seen as the worst weapon the Pyro received during the Jungle Inferno update. First is the requirements to even ''unlock'' its contract -- nine stars needed from Pyroland contracts. This mean that the player needed to, at minimum, complete every single bonus objective for each Pyroland contract, including the Thermal Thruster contract, which is incredibly difficult without cooperation. When the player finally unlocks the Hot Hand, they then need to earn it for good by scoring some kills with it... only to find that the Hot Hand is essentially a JokeWeapon that fares worse than even Pyro's other melee weapons.



** The Thermal Thruster's bonus objectives require you to extinguish teammates or push back enemies with your launch animation. Because the Thermal Thruster is very slow, either with preparing it or actually launching, you can't expect to do this a lot of times in a firefight without dying.
** The "Expert (insert class here)" contracts. The main objective tends to be "Dominate a player as (class)", with side objectives being "MVP as (class)" and the aforementioned "Do X enough times in one life". Especially if the three available classes for the contract are none that you main. If you don't have a friend who is good that class, then you're hot out of luck.
** "Defend the (Payload/Intelligence/Capture Point/Whatever)". For one, the objective is very oddly worded (it refers to killing people who are trying to capture the map objective, not preventing capture by standing near the cart or on the point). Then there's the fact that the objective requires a ''lot'' of points to be completed - thirty individual defense kills. And, because you have to defend the map objective, you're relying heavily on the skill of both teams, not just yours - you can't do this objective if the attacking team is absolutely crushing you, nor if the defending team just completely prevents anyone from touching the map objective.

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** The Thermal Thruster's bonus objectives require you to extinguish teammates or push back enemies with your launch animation. Because the Thermal Thruster is very slow, either with preparing it or actually launching, you can't expect to do this a lot of times in a firefight without dying.
dying. And because of its tiny area of effect and momentum before launching, trying to launch while moving can easily cause you to miss even when teammates are cooperating with you to help on the contract.
** The Hot Hand first has a very strict requirement - '''nine''' Pyroland stars needed to unlock it, which means you need to finish every single bonus Pyroland objective, including the Thermal Thruster described above. While the contract itself looks rather simple -- getting multiple kills with the Hot Hand -- it's a lot trickier in practice. In normal play, like with most other Pyro melee weapons, you'd have an easier time killing an enemy with your flamethrower than with your melee, not to mention the amount of effort it takes to slap a person to death. This means the most efficient way to finish the contract is in Medieval Mode, and even then you're prone to being outranged by the Demoknights there.
** The "Expert (insert class here)" (class)" contracts. The main objective tends to be "Dominate a player as (class)", with side objectives being "MVP as (class)" and the aforementioned "Do X enough times in one life". Especially if the three available classes for the contract are none that you main. If you don't have a friend who is good that class, then you're hot out of luck.
** "Defend the (Payload/Intelligence/Capture Point/Whatever)".(map objective)". For one, the objective is very oddly worded (it refers to killing people who are trying to capture the map objective, not preventing capture by standing near the cart or on the point). Then there's the fact that the objective requires a ''lot'' of points to be completed - thirty individual defense kills. And, because you have to defend the map objective, you're relying heavily on the skill of both teams, not just yours - you can't do this objective if the attacking team is absolutely crushing you, nor if the defending team just completely prevents anyone from touching the map objective.
29th Jan '18 8:21:10 PM Gadjiltron
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** Demoknights can basically run around in a battlefield and mash the attack button, because 2 of their swords essentially make them unkillable except by maintaining range. This only escalated with the inclusion of the Tide Turner, letting them keep their Grenade Launcher ''and'' turn mobility to retain their mid-long range abilities.

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** Demoknights can basically run around in a battlefield and mash the attack button, because 2 of their swords essentially make them unkillable except by maintaining range. This only escalated with the inclusion of the Tide Turner, letting them keep their Grenade Launcher ''and'' turn mobility to retain their mid-long range abilities.abilities until balance patches took it down a few notches.



*** Sentry Busters. They have a deceptively large amount of health, run fast as hell, and the only strategy against them other than "concentrate fire on it and hope for the best" is to choose the building you need the most, picking it up and hauling ass with it in tow before it blows up, which if your timing is off will destroy your buildings ''and'' kill you.[[note]] There are 4 ways to deal with it: 1) Drain all its health (Almost impossible on early waves most of the time.) 2)Grab your sentry and run when the buster charges its explosion. (If you're too slow, your sentry AND you will be dead. 3)Same as 2, but use the Rescue Ranger's alt-fire (teleports a target building to you, but it costs metal. If you're not paying attention to your metal, it'll do nothing) 4) Grab your sentry and run at it, then retreat when you touch it. The buster will charge its explosion when you touch it, and as long as you start retreating as soon as it starts charging, you'll be safe. It can be difficult though, depending on the amount of enemies near it.[[/note]]

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*** Sentry Busters.Busters, for Engineers who have yet to figure them out. They have a deceptively large amount of health, run fast as hell, and the only strategy against them other than "concentrate fire on it and hope for the best" is to choose the building you need the most, picking it up and hauling ass with it in tow before it blows up, which if your timing is off will destroy your buildings ''and'' kill you.[[note]] There are 4 ways to deal However, an Engineer with it: 1) Drain all its health (Almost impossible on early waves most of the time.) 2)Grab your sentry and run when the buster charges its explosion. (If you're too slow, your sentry AND you will be dead. 3)Same as 2, but use the Rescue Ranger's alt-fire (teleports a target building to you, but it costs metal. If you're not paying attention to your metal, it'll do nothing) 4) Grab your sentry and run at it, then retreat when you touch it. The buster will charge its explosion when you touch it, and as long as you start retreating as soon as it starts charging, you'll be safe. It enough experience can be difficult though, depending on the amount of enemies near it.[[/note]]manage or recover from regular Busters, turning them into GoddamnedBats.



*** Mecha Engineers... Just.... Mecha Engineers... They teleport onto the battlefield and unless you find them before they set up, they put up a LV 3 sentry and a teleporter. So basically Word for the wise: FIND THEM AND KILL THEM before their buildings are set up because EVERY OTHER DEMONIC SPIDER can instantly teleport onto the battlefield getting them closer and closer to the bomb hatch if the teleporter is set up. And they become Ubered for 3 Seconds upon exiting. LITERAL. HELL.
*** Bowman Snipers can overlap between this and GoddamnedBats. They're the only offensive type of Sniper that don't come in occasionally for support, and they wield the Huntsman, which is already considered a powerful weapon to begin with because of HitboxDissonance, and the fact that a well-placed headshot can OneHitKill most classes. Now imagine a horde of these enemies coming at you and pelting you with a RainOfArrows. Without a good Medic or Pyro to counter the arrows, these guys will overwhelm you very fast.

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*** Mecha Engineers... Just.... Mecha Engineers... They Engineers teleport onto the battlefield and unless you find them before they set up, they put up a LV 3 sentry and a teleporter.teleporter. They will also endlessly repair their buildings, with an infinite metal reserve, and will move their buildings forward if your team is pushed back. So basically Word for the wise: FIND THEM AND KILL THEM before their buildings are set up because EVERY OTHER DEMONIC SPIDER can instantly teleport onto the battlefield getting them closer and closer to the bomb hatch if the teleporter is set up. And they become Don't camp the teleporters, either; enemy bots exiting this way are Ubered for 3 Seconds upon exiting. LITERAL. HELL.
three seconds. Even the Sentry Busters.
*** Bowman Snipers can overlap between this and GoddamnedBats. They're the only offensive type of Sniper that don't come in occasionally for support, and they wield the Huntsman, which is already considered a powerful weapon to begin with because of HitboxDissonance, and the fact that a well-placed headshot can OneHitKill most classes. Now imagine a horde of these enemies coming at you and pelting you with a RainOfArrows. Without a good Medic or Pyro to counter the arrows, arrows (no way will a Pyro be able to reflect so many at once), these guys will overwhelm you very fast.fast. Mannhattan adds large Bowman Snipers, which take a fair bit of punishment and are certain to one-shot you, while being protected by a Medic. However, they're not considered Giants, so a backstab can take them out...



** Sentry Busters again. Once you understand how they work and how to escape them, a well-entrenched, level-headed Engie who's paying attention will (almost) never be threatened by them again; just pick up your sentry before they reach your nest, walk towards them to make them explode prematurely, then put your sentry back in its nest. Problem is, the more often you successfully do this, the more often they respawn, over and over and over... the Announcer shouting "Look out for that Sentry Buster!" over and over and over... listening to that tick-tock noise over and over and over...
** Giant Black Box Soldiers in Mann Vs. Machine, for being ''massive'' {{Stone Wall}}s. Out of all the giant Soldier robots, they have the lowest damage output due to the fact they fire all their rockets at once, and then ''slowly'' reload. Here's the problem- if they hit you with that barrage of rockets, they recover massive amounts of health, if not all of it, and as such, if the team doesn't evade the rockets or the Medic can't continuously block them with the shield, the damn thing can either freely capture a gate, or just plant the bomb. That said, they're every bit as slow as the other giants, and can swiftly be killed before they do anything if dealt with properly, but it's the sheer tediousness of doing so that makes them more annoying than difficult.

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** Several types of enemies in Mann Vs. Machine qualify:
***
Sentry Busters again. Once you understand how they work and how to escape them, a well-entrenched, level-headed Engie who's paying attention will (almost) never be threatened by them again; just pick up your sentry before they reach your nest, walk towards them to make them explode prematurely, then put your sentry back in its nest. If you time it right the explosion also takes out a part of the robot horde. Problem is, the more often you successfully do this, the more often they respawn, over and over and over... the Announcer shouting "Look out for that Sentry Buster!" over and over and over... listening to that tick-tock noise over and over and over...
** *** Giant Black Box Soldiers in Mann Vs. Machine, for being ''massive'' {{Stone Wall}}s. Out of all the giant Soldier robots, they have the lowest damage output due to the fact they fire all their rockets at once, and then ''slowly'' reload. Here's the problem- if they hit you with that barrage of rockets, they recover massive amounts of health, if not all of it, and as such, if the team doesn't evade the rockets or the Medic can't continuously block them with the shield, the damn thing can either freely capture a gate, or just plant the bomb. That said, they're every bit as slow as the other giants, and can swiftly be killed before they do anything if dealt with properly, but b*ut it's the sheer tediousness of doing so that makes them more annoying than difficult.



** Predictably, the Jungle Inferno update (the resulting Pyro update from the Meet Your Match war) ended up with servers being flooded with Pyroes again. Two of the weapons released actively seemed to make Pyro's afterburn immunity less of an issue with the commonness of Pyro 1v1s - the Gas Passer causes Pyroes to ignite despite their normal immunity to afterburn, and the Dragon's Fury's main aspect is to crit burning targets, but it'll still crit Pyroes if consecutive shots are landed. But, if you didn't want to play the new weapons, expect to be forced to play a lot of Engy, Heavy, and Sniper, classes who are good at countering Pyro.

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** Predictably, the Jungle Inferno update (the resulting Pyro update from the Meet Your Match war) ended up with servers being flooded with Pyroes again.for the first two weeks after launch. Two of the weapons released actively seemed to make Pyro's afterburn immunity less of an issue with the commonness of Pyro 1v1s - the Gas Passer causes Pyroes to ignite despite their normal immunity to afterburn, and the Dragon's Fury's main aspect is to crit burning targets, but it'll still crit Pyroes if consecutive shots are landed. But, if you didn't want to play the new weapons, expect to be forced to play a lot of Engy, Heavy, and Sniper, classes who are good at countering Pyro.



** Sometimes, a Spy's disguise would be lacking a head or feet, making them very easy to detect. Occasionally, the corpse of a Spy who has just used their Dead Ringer will fold in an unusual manner, letting an attentive player know the Spy is still at large.



*** However, Valve has announced that the [[http://www.teamfortress.com/meetyourmatch/ Meet Your Match Update]] will do away with autobalance. At first, people were rejoicing. [[BeCarefulWhatYouWishFor But then the update came out, and people quickly began to miss it after discovering firsthand how one-sided matches can become if the servers don't autobalance.]]
*** They soon [[{{Pun}} re-balanced]] it, by instead giving players in "casual" gamemodes an ''option'' to move to the other side for balancing reasons; in return, the re-balanced players get bonus experience points at the end of the match.

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*** However, Valve has announced that the [[http://www.teamfortress.com/meetyourmatch/ Meet Your Match Update]] will do away with autobalance. At first, people were rejoicing. [[BeCarefulWhatYouWishFor But then the update came out, and people quickly began to miss it after discovering firsthand how one-sided matches can become if the servers don't autobalance.]]
***
]] They soon [[{{Pun}} re-balanced]] it, by instead giving asking players in "casual" gamemodes an ''option'' to move volunteer to switch when the other side for balancing reasons; teams become imbalanced; in return, the re-balanced players get bonus experience points at the end of the match.



*** Hightower. While the emphasis on verticality does make it famous for the many Trolldiers market gardening left right and center, the map itself lasts very, very long. About halfway through the tracks is a hill which the cart must be pushed up. It takes a long while to push up the hill, an Engy probably has a level 3 sentry set up in the building, it's easy to get surrounded, the defending side will usually have the height advantage, and if the cart stops being pushed at all on that hill, it's going back down to the bottom. If that wasn't bad enough, the map essentially tells you to do it a second time - but this time, the cart is going straight up on a platform with very little footing and cover. And it's right outside the defending team's spawn, so be prepared to have to fight off endless hordes of enemies just spamming up onto that platform. If someone manages to cap on Hightower, it's usually because the match has been going so long that everyone gets tired of deathmatching and the teams mutually agree to let someone cap.

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*** Hightower. While the emphasis on verticality does make it famous for the many Trolldiers market gardening left right and center, the map itself lasts very, very long. About halfway through the tracks is a hill which the cart must be pushed up. It takes a long while to push up the hill, an Engy probably has a level 3 sentry set up in the building, it's easy to get surrounded, the defending side will usually have the height advantage, and if the cart stops being pushed at all on that hill, it's going back down to the bottom. If that wasn't bad enough, the map essentially tells you to do it a second time - but this time, the cart is going straight up on a platform with very little footing and cover. And it's right outside the defending team's spawn, so be prepared to have to fight off endless hordes of enemies just spamming up onto that platform. Unlike other game modes, the fact that this is Payload Race means there is no time limit, so the map can go on forever without a risk of stalemate and it becomes an impromptu Team Deathmatch. If someone manages to cap on Hightower, it's usually because the match has been going so long that everyone gets tired of deathmatching and the teams mutually agree to let someone cap.



*** Mannhattan can become this regardless of difficulty. The way the map is set up is that there are also two gates to defend in addition to the bomb, making it into a psuedo-Control Point map where teamwork is absolutely crucial here. And this map has hoards of GoddamnedBats and DemonicSpiders coming at you full force like the Giant Rapid-Fire Soldiers, Super Scouts, and Bowman Snipers, all rife to blow you to smithereens. The warehouse at the beginning has a second spawn point on the balcony above the main open area where teams must be weary of, and unless there's an Engie keeping that area in check, you can easily be overwhelmed by flanking robots coming out at both sides. What's worse is that you must take priority in killing the robots highlighted with yellow lights, as these robots will make straight beelines to the gates. If any of the gates get captured, their spawn point will move closer to your base and they will also gain an additional bomb. Having to fend off robots carrying three bombs from various directions can easily turn the wave into a nightmarish hell.

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*** Mannhattan can become this regardless of difficulty. The way the map is set up is that there are also two gates to defend in addition to the bomb, making it into a psuedo-Control Point map where teamwork is absolutely crucial here. And this map has hoards of GoddamnedBats and DemonicSpiders coming at you full force like the Giant Rapid-Fire Soldiers, Super Scouts, and Bowman Snipers, all rife to blow you to smithereens. The warehouse at the beginning has a second spawn point on the balcony above the main open area where teams must be weary of, and unless there's an Engie keeping that area in check, you can easily be overwhelmed by flanking robots coming out at both sides. What's worse is that you must take priority in killing the robots highlighted with yellow lights, as these robots will make straight beelines to the gates. If any of the gates get captured, their spawn point will move closer to your base and they will also gain an additional bomb. Having to fend off robots carrying three bombs from various directions can easily turn the wave into a nightmarish hell.hell, even if the bombs can reset if untouched for long enough.


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** The Thermal Thruster's bonus objectives require you to extinguish teammates or push back enemies with your launch animation. Because the Thermal Thruster is very slow, either with preparing it or actually launching, you can't expect to do this a lot of times in a firefight without dying.
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