History YMMV / TeamFortress2

4th Dec '16 2:11:37 PM Dattix
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** While most custom maps are well-balanced (since they fix what are perceived to be flaws in some official ones), Orange is anything but. It's a 5CP map, but the control points have excruciatingly long cap times even with four players on them, and the central control point (usually the focal point of 5CP maps) is holed at the top of a tower which requires classes who can't explosive jump to go inside and climb up, and it's easily camped by Engineers. The map itself is bare and ugly, consisting mostly of [[ObviousBeta developer textures]] and few obstacles blocking Sniper sightlines (the map was abandoned by its creator after releasing it in 2007), and little to no advanced flanking routes. The spawn rooms are atrociously set up: switching classes kills you due to them lacking a proper func_respawn option, you can get into them as the other team, they don't shift as points are captured like other maps and you can even build in them, leading to perpetual stalemates and frustration that 2fort and Hightower can only dream of. For these reasons, people who play the map don't even go after the supposed objective and just deathmatch; ironically, the map has become popular ''because'' of how horrible it is, gaining a [[TheRockyHorrorPictureShow Rocky Horror-esqe]] cult following and dozens of remixes, but serious players continue to avoid the map and servers running it.
26th Nov '16 8:05:51 AM BarthVader
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** And in 2016, ''[[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbI5R4QJYjA The Pybro]]'', a polished resubmission of last year's entry, won Best Action over brilliantly animated ''[[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXsQw5pJiDU Double-Edged Defense]]''. Even the former's author [[DoWellButNotPerfect (who just wanted a Memory Maker)]] thinks it was a snub.

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** And in 2016, ''[[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbI5R4QJYjA The Pybro]]'', a polished resubmission of last year's entry, won Best Action over brilliantly animated ''[[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXsQw5pJiDU Double-Edged Defense]]''. Even TTMR, the former's author [[DoWellButNotPerfect (who just wanted a Memory Maker)]] author, thinks it was a snub.snub, [[https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/5ey7dr/someone_just_destroyed_their_saxxy/ and destroyed his Saxxy for that movie.]]



** The Pyro. Half think the Pyro is a fun skilled class and the other consider him a skilless noob class. It doesn't help that the programmers have a difficult time balancing Pyro; at one moment, Pyro is the weakest link with underpowered ways to deal damage [[note]]such as when the Pyro had only random crits from a flamethower with little range and a standard shotgun[[/note]] to the next where they're hell on two legs and overpowered weapons that take no skill to use [[note]]such as when the Phlogistinator could quickly build a charge that healed Pyro and made the player get crit-boosted for ''8 seconds'' in a game where every second counts[[/note]] and back to being the weakest [[note]]Pyro's "puff 'n' sting" tactic being nerfed by slower switch-to and swing speed on the Axtingusher/Postal Pummler[[/note]]. It's likely the eventual "Pyro Update" after ''Meet Your Match'' will only further the problem.

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** The Pyro. Half think the Pyro is a fun skilled class and the other consider him a skilless noob class. It doesn't help that the programmers have a difficult time balancing Pyro; at one moment, Pyro is the weakest link with underpowered ways to deal damage [[note]]such as when the Pyro had only random crits from a flamethower with little range and a standard shotgun[[/note]] to the next where they're hell on two legs and overpowered weapons that take no skill to use [[note]]such as when the Phlogistinator could quickly build a charge that healed Pyro and made the player get crit-boosted for ''8 seconds'' in a game where every second counts[[/note]] and back to being the weakest [[note]]Pyro's "puff 'n' sting" tactic being nerfed by slower switch-to and swing speed on the Axtingusher/Postal Pummler[[/note]].Pummeler[[/note]]. It's likely the eventual "Pyro Update" after ''Meet Your Match'' will only further the problem.
25th Nov '16 7:22:35 PM ImperialMajestyXO
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** Soldier. Some love him for being both top tier and easy to play. Others hate him for the fact that due to being Robin Walker's favorite character, he gets class updates with both higher frequency and quality than any other class (4 at the time of this writing which includes two on the same day getting more stuff than the supposed star of the update). Especially jarring considering that some classes have only received one class update within the same amount of time.

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** Soldier. Some love him for being both top tier and easy to play. Others hate him for the fact that due to being Robin Walker's [[CreatorsFavorite favorite character, character]], he gets class updates with both higher frequency and quality than any other class (4 at the time of this writing which includes two on the same day getting more stuff than the supposed star of the update). Especially jarring considering that some classes have only received one class update within the same amount of time.
25th Nov '16 5:26:45 PM RainingMetal
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** The Classic gets this treatment for the reason that it cannot headshot unless fully charged, a large penalty considering that non-fully-charged headshots from the other rifles (save for the Sydney Sleeper) are enough to deal with most classes. And just to add insult to injury, it also has a damage penalty on bodyshots, which essentially forces the Sniper to stand still and fully charge every shot while making himself a sitting duck, or end up doing next to no damage.

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** The Classic gets this treatment for the reason that it cannot headshot unless fully charged, a large penalty considering that non-fully-charged headshots from the other rifles (save for the Sydney Sleeper) are enough to deal with most classes. And just to add insult to injury, it also has a damage penalty on bodyshots, which essentially forces the Sniper to stand still and fully charge every shot while making himself a sitting duck, or end up doing next to no damage. [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking It also charges independently of zoom, meaning that one's fingers will be strained in charging shots]]. The strange thing is, only the last thing applied to the Sniper Rifle in TFC (one could perform headshots without a full charge).



** The Classic (Sniper Rifle) is pretty much proof that TFC mechanics simply don't work in Team Fortress 2, and more. Like the Sniper Rifle in TFC, it can charge its shots independently without zooming in, though that defeats much of the purpose of the weapon, and is hard on one's fingers. What's worse are the quirks that weren't present in TFC; it can only perform headshots when fully charged (which is unnecessarily risky to pull off), and it deals less damage on a body shot. The result is a weapon that's inferior to all other sniper rifles in every way.
25th Nov '16 5:24:49 PM RainingMetal
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** The Classic (Sniper Rifle) is pretty much proof that TFC mechanics simply don't work in Team Fortress 2, and more. Like the Sniper Rifle in TFC, it can charge its shots independently without zooming in, though that defeats much of the purpose of the weapon, and is hard on one's fingers. What's worse are the quirks that weren't present in TFC; it can only perform headshots when fully charged (which is unnecessarily risky to pull off), and it deals less damage on a body shot. The result is a weapon that's inferior to all other sniper rifles in every way.
19th Nov '16 6:31:23 AM BarthVader
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** And in 2016, ''[[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbI5R4QJYjA The Pybro]]'', a polished resubmission of last year's entry, won Best Action over brilliantly animated ''[[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXsQw5pJiDU Double-Edged Defense]]''. Even the former's author [[DoWellButNotPerfect (who just wanted a Memory Maker)]] thinks it was a snub.



** The Pyro. Half think the Pyro is a fun skilled class and the other consider him a skilless noob class. It doesn't help that the programmers have a difficult time balancing Pyro; at one moment, Pyro is the weakest link with underpowered ways to deal damage [[note]]such as when the Pyro had only random crits from a flamethower with little range and a standard shotgun[[/note]] to the next where they're hell on two legs and overpowered weapons that take no skill to use [[note]]such as when the Phlogistinator could quickly build a charge that healed Pyro and made the player ubercharge for ''8 seconds'' in a game where every second counts[[/note]] and back to being the weakest [[note]]Pyro's "puff 'n' sting" tactic being nerfed by slower switch-to and swing speed on the Axtingusher/Postal Pummler[[/note]]. It's likely the eventual "Pyro Update" after ''Meet Your Match'' will only further the problem.

to:

** The Pyro. Half think the Pyro is a fun skilled class and the other consider him a skilless noob class. It doesn't help that the programmers have a difficult time balancing Pyro; at one moment, Pyro is the weakest link with underpowered ways to deal damage [[note]]such as when the Pyro had only random crits from a flamethower with little range and a standard shotgun[[/note]] to the next where they're hell on two legs and overpowered weapons that take no skill to use [[note]]such as when the Phlogistinator could quickly build a charge that healed Pyro and made the player ubercharge get crit-boosted for ''8 seconds'' in a game where every second counts[[/note]] and back to being the weakest [[note]]Pyro's "puff 'n' sting" tactic being nerfed by slower switch-to and swing speed on the Axtingusher/Postal Pummler[[/note]]. It's likely the eventual "Pyro Update" after ''Meet Your Match'' will only further the problem.
7th Nov '16 3:41:05 PM BarthVader
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** Maple Ridge Event, from Scream Fortress 2016. In short, most of the problems with it seem to stem from it being designed as a 4v4 map that doesn't work well in 12 v 12 play. It's not an universal opinion though, as some players appreciate the map itself and the fact that there's no Halloween gimmicks (other than the pumpkins) on it.
31st Oct '16 1:08:30 PM flameclaw0x7
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** To a certain extent, the Sniper's line about "blokes that bludgeon their wives to death with a golf trophy" in ''Meet the Sniper''. You can't officially kill anyone with a golf trophy in the game, but as of June 2011, you can bludgeon them to death with a ''[[http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Saxxy filmmaking]]'' trophy... which turns them to Australium. [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpExAj9671w Really]].

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** To a certain extent, the Sniper's line about "blokes that bludgeon their wives to death with a golf trophy" in ''Meet the Sniper''. You can't officially kill anyone with a golf trophy in the game, but as of June 2011, you can bludgeon them to death with a ''[[http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Saxxy filmmaking]]'' trophy... which turns them to Australium. [[http://www.[[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpExAj9671w com/watch?v=Zn_DVy0qzPA Really]].
29th Oct '16 10:35:17 AM ThatOneCheeseGuy
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* InternetBackdraft: As Valve put it after [[http://www.teamfortress.com/crafting/ announcing item crafting]], "Say goodbye to those enjoyable evenings spent complaining on the forums about which item in your inventory was the most useless, spraying anti-Australian racist hate speech all over Robin Walker, his lovely wife, and his beautiful children."
** Halloween 2013 event had two: one caused by the Magical Mercenary hat, which is a huge ShoutOut to ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagic'' (a ''major'' point of contention) and the other caused by the description of the spellbook from the update page, quoted below, a jab against fanfic writers.
--> '''[[http://www.teamfortress.com/bazbobarrabus/ The update page:]]''' The scariest part about these books is that they AREN'T REAL BOOKS AT ALL! They're ''self-published''! Feel the desperation dripping from their not professionally-edited pages! Written by sad, stay-at-home wizards with big dreams and rudimentary Photoshop skills, these poorly-assembled tomes contain ''magic spells of unspeakable lethality,'' nestled in between ''long passages of copyrighted characters having sex with each other!'' Awooooo!
** Halloween 2014 severely limited the amount of halloween items obtainable that year (a maximum of two free packs, containing three items each), opting out the gift system altogether. The reasoning behind this was to prevent gift farming. The fanbase claims that gift farming was absolutely harmless during the previous two years and ''really'' didn't approve of the change. The items obtained for free being untradeable didn't help matters either.
*** Halloween 2015 replaced the gifts on all pre-2014 Halloween maps with... tiny gargoyles that gave souls, which you could easily get from kills or objectives. Players that wanted to get certain objects only available through Halloween gifts, such as the Halloween Spells from Lakeside, or the Saxton Hale mask, were not happy that these things were essentially LostForever. Not only that, but the update only added ''nineteen'' new cosmetics, compared to fifty from the 2014 update and ''102'' from the 2013 update. Indeed, the Medic, Sniper, Heavy, and Spy didn't get anything at all beside the all-class items, of which there were only four.
** End of the Line was teased for over a year, with claims of, in addition to the titular short film, adding new weapons, a new map, and a new game mode. What players got... was a melee reskin and a game mode that costs money and consists of just collecting ducks. Which you could already do for free in Halloween 2014. The community was '''not''' pleased that they had to wait a whole year just for that, nor that Valve had cut the map (the reason the update took so long) with no announcement and no chance to let the team fix things because they felt the map was "too confusing for new players" -- despite, as {{WebVideo/Muselk}} [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnMOKCGYw-U argues, being far more linear and simple]] than Valve-approved maps like "CP Steel" or "Robot Destruction / Asteroid".
** The Gun Mettle update landed in a similar situation. It's the first major update to the game since Smissmass 2014, but what players got... was yet another game mode which costs money and [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks all kinds of changes to almost every single weapon in the game]]. The unique weapon PaletteSwap system does ''not'' help matters, since it's both tied to the game mode and has a striking similarity to the weapon skins found in ''[[Videogame/CounterStrike Counter-Strike: Global Offensive]]''. Because of this, quite a few fans now call the game "TF:GO".
*** One of the weapon changes that didn't sit well with fans was the nerf to the [[SuicideAttack Ullapool Caber]]. The base damage of the explosion was reduced by 25%, and the damage ramp-up, what made it a powerful one-time only attack, was reduced to be the same as other explosive weapons. Fans immediately took to complaining that the weapon was now worthless as a high-risk, high-reward SuicideAttack... which was ''[[EpicFail how the weapon was intended to be used]]''.
** Fans weren't happy with the items from the Invasion and Scream Fortress 2015 having the grades from Gun Mettle being applied to them. Fans believe the grade system is Valve deciding the value of certain cosmetics instead of the community, as it has been for a long time. Fans feel that it's an additional slap to the face that the items from Invasion and Scream Fortress 2015 can't be bought from the Mann Co. Store, and can only be gotten from cases.
*** Fans also aren't amused that Valve seems to insist on the containers for these items [[InsistentTerminology being called "cases" instead of "crates"]], and think that Valve is just blurring the lines between [=TF2=] and [[VideoGame/CounterStrike CS:GO]] more.
** The Tough Break update, being the year's Smissmass update, was put under heavy fire. Yes, they nerfed the dreaded Air Strike, Reserve Shooter and Half-Zatoichi, but they also saw it fit to buff an already controversial weapon, the [[GameBreaker Phlogistinator]]. And yet at the same time, the Degreaser and Axtinguisher were nerfed, causing anger and accusations that Valve was dropping the Pyro's skill ceiling. Yes, they added health restoration on airblast extinguishing, but why bother helping your team stay alive when you can incinerate everyone on the opposite team?
*** Then came the skin festivizer. Many who were hoping on a festive Direct Hit or Engineer [=PDAs=] were left severely disappointed.
*** And that's not even getting into the changes to the Persian Persuader and the Claideamh Mor. The Persuader's health regen from was changed to charge regen (which, if you're using this, you'd likely never have a shortage of charge), and it was given an offhand ammo penalty, meaning using it with launchers is now even more pointless than before, because you still can't pick up ammo for those. The Claideamh Mor's charge extension (its only unique attribute, mind you) was torn from it and replaced with vulnerability and restoration of health on kill, which the Half-Zatoichi already does much, ''much'' better. To many, these changes were very much unwarranted and ruined two fun weapons.
** Meet Your Match, shaped up to be the best thing to happen to [=TF2=], became an absolute headache for casual pub players (see TheyChangedItNowItSucks below), and convinced many people that Valve fully intended to destroy the casual playerbase.
*** Alongside the Casual gameplay changes, however, many people were disappointed in the underwhelming number of balance changes, with many weapons not even being touched, and some of the changes that ''did'' happen (particularly the Quickiebomb Launcher buff[[labelnote:What it did.]] The Quckiebomb Launcher now has more charge time reduction to -70% (from -50%), damage bonus for max charged shots to +35% (from +25%), and removed them fizzling out 4 seconds after landing at the expense of having half as many bombs as the standard launcher. As if that was a good cost for having faster flying, more explosive bombs.[[/labelnote]] and Soda Popper nerf[[labelnote:What it did.]]Before the Soda Popper would gain "hype" (a meter that, when full, would grant Scout 5 extra jumps) by just runnning around. Now you have to fill the meter by damaging foes with your weapons.[[/labelnote]]) were seen as unnecessary.
*** And then there was the Bison nerf. The ability to damage a single enemy multiple times was "fixed" as a "bug" (despite it being ''[[EpicFail advertised on the loading screen tips as a feature of the weapon]]'') and the already relatively slow projectile was made ''even slower''. Like the Claideamh Mor nerf from Tough Break, the change was very much unwarranted and there was no shortage of people calling out Valve for this decision. Some people, such as [=YouTuber=] King Raja, are wondering if the team of programmers actually play the game outside of bug checking because it's clear that they don't use the Righteous Bison or even bother reading about what it does on the game's Wiki.
*** Quite a few of the changes made it clear to players that Valve had released the update as a response to the threat posed by ''VideoGame/{{Overwatch}}'', as many of the UI changes heavily resembled it.
*** The removal of the ability to hide viewmodels outside of sv_cheats 1 angered many competitive players, who viewed the viewmodel minmode as an insufficient replacement. The anger expanded to casual players and mod creators (such as Paysus) after a patch re-removed custom viewmodel animations from the sv_pure whitelist, due to people making mods that [[LoopholeAbuse drew the viewmodel off-screen]].
** While the devs admitted that Scream Fortress VIII wasn't high priority, it fell under this at launch due to Merasmissions not keeping progress after leaving games, them relying on casual matchmaking, and the cosmetics ''once again'' being graded.
27th Oct '16 2:31:57 PM Dattix
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** While Dustbowl earns its ire for having narrow passageways and easily-defended chokepoints seemingly everywhere, it's stage 3 that's the really tough part. The round timer on stage 3 typically lasts ''[[MarathonLevel 20 minutes]]''. Trying to fight for that long is exhausting for both teams.

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** While Dustbowl earns its ire for having narrow passageways and easily-defended chokepoints seemingly everywhere, it's stage 3 that's the really tough part. The round timer on stage 3 typically lasts ''[[MarathonLevel 20 minutes]]''. Trying to fight for that long is exhausting for both teams. Later multi-stage maps cap the time limit at 8 or 9 minutes, alleviating this issue a bit.
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