History YMMV / PokemonXAndY

7th Dec '16 10:52:37 AM Isaac_Heller
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** Kalos' French basis is less unanimously popular in the United States than in Japan and European countries, due to the fact that the US doesn't have a prominent ForeignCultureFetish for France like Japan does. Additionally, ''X'' and ''Y''[='s=] main intra-FandomRivalry is with the Unova games and Alola games, which take place in an American-based region; some American Unova fans [[PatrioticFervor treat their region as a]] SacredCow for this reason (among others) while mocking Kalos' French roots and using it as an additional point of criticism.

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** Kalos' French basis is less unanimously popular in the United States than in Japan and European countries, due to the fact that the US doesn't have a prominent ForeignCultureFetish for France like Japan does. Additionally, ''X'' and ''Y''[='s=] main intra-FandomRivalry is with the Unova games and Alola games, which take place in an American-based region; some American Unova fans [[PatrioticFervor treat their region as a]] SacredCow for this reason (among others) while mocking Kalos' French roots and using it as an additional point of criticism.criticism, with French Kalos fans doing the same in return.



* GrowingTheBeard: ''X'' and ''Y'' mark the point when the ''Pokémon'' series began to integrate itself fully with its older PeripheryDemographic, as it [[PanderingToTheBase catered directly to their tastes]] through its Pokédex (the selection is enormous and spans all the previous generations, complete with the iconic Kanto starters and legendaries), a more complex storyline that goes into dark territory, and vastly improved and more transparent breeding/training mechanics. Even if [[VideoGame/PokemonGoldAndSilver previous]] [[VideoGame/PokemonBlackAndWhite games]] [[VideoGame/PokemonBlack2AndWhite2 tried]] doing this to an extent, this is the first time where the developers and fans have been largely in sync. However, this came at the expense of features that appeal to fans of other modern ''Pokémon'' generations and those who enjoy the postgame/exploration aspects, as explained under ContestedSequel above.

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* GrowingTheBeard: ''X'' and ''Y'' mark the point when the ''Pokémon'' series began to integrate itself fully with its older PeripheryDemographic, as it [[PanderingToTheBase catered directly to their tastes]] through its Pokédex (the selection is enormous and spans all the previous generations, complete with the iconic Kanto starters and legendaries), a more complex storyline that goes into dark territory, and vastly improved and more transparent breeding/training mechanics. Even if [[VideoGame/PokemonGoldAndSilver previous]] [[VideoGame/PokemonDiamondAndPearl games]] [[VideoGame/PokemonBlackAndWhite games]] have]] [[VideoGame/PokemonBlack2AndWhite2 tried]] doing this to an extent, this is the first time where the developers and fans have been largely in sync. However, this came at the expense of features that appeal to fans of other modern ''Pokémon'' generations and those who enjoy the postgame/exploration aspects, as explained under ContestedSequel above.
7th Dec '16 10:46:56 AM Isaac_Heller
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* SurprisinglyImprovedSequel: In spite of the BrokenBase, Gen VI has generally avoided the [[NostalgiaFilter nostalgia-biased]] complaining that swoops down on the most recent generation since Gen III, largely because of the VideoGame3DLeap everybody has been begging for and the massive Regional Pokedex and several Mega Evolutions PanderingToTheBase.

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* SurprisinglyImprovedSequel: In spite of the BrokenBase, Gen VI has generally avoided the [[NostalgiaFilter nostalgia-biased]] usual complaining that swoops down on the most recent generation since Gen III, largely because of the VideoGame3DLeap everybody has been begging for and the massive Regional Pokedex and several Mega Evolutions PanderingToTheBase.
6th Dec '16 12:19:03 PM geekgecko
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** Kalos' French basis is less unanimously popular in the United States than in Japan and European countries, due to the fact that the US doesn't have a prominent ForeignCultureFetish for France like Japan does. Additionally, ''X'' and ''Y''[='s=] main intra-FandomRivalry is with the Unova games, which take place in an American-based region; some American Unova fans [[PatrioticFervor treat their region as a]] SacredCow for this reason (among others) while mocking Kalos' French roots and using it as an additional point of criticism.

to:

** Kalos' French basis is less unanimously popular in the United States than in Japan and European countries, due to the fact that the US doesn't have a prominent ForeignCultureFetish for France like Japan does. Additionally, ''X'' and ''Y''[='s=] main intra-FandomRivalry is with the Unova games and Alola games, which take place in an American-based region; some American Unova fans [[PatrioticFervor treat their region as a]] SacredCow for this reason (among others) while mocking Kalos' French roots and using it as an additional point of criticism.



* ComplacentGamingSyndrome: Several Pokémon were hit with this trope, and ended up being used on most teams in multiplayer. However, the most infamous cases (especially early on) were Greninja, Talonflame and Aegislash, who were given the derogatory {{Fan Nickname}}s of "Smogonfrog", "Smogonbird" and "Smogonsword" respectively (after unofficial competitive site ''Website/{{Smogon}}'') for how frequently they were used on competitive teams.[[note]]Smogon would end up [[KickedUpstairs banning Greninja and Aegislash from standard play]] later on.[[/note]]

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* ComplacentGamingSyndrome: Several Pokémon were hit with this trope, and ended up being used on most teams in multiplayer. However, the most infamous cases (especially early on) were Greninja, Talonflame and Aegislash, who were given the derogatory {{Fan Nickname}}s of "Smogonfrog", "Smogonbird" and "Smogonsword" respectively (after unofficial competitive site ''Website/{{Smogon}}'') for how frequently they were used on competitive teams.[[note]]Smogon would end up [[KickedUpstairs banning Greninja and Aegislash from standard play]] later on.on, and Talonflame got a massiv {{Nerf}} in Gen VII.[[/note]]



** A general trend is that fans/defenders of ''X'' and ''Y'' also tend to be fans of the Kanto and Johto games, while detractors of the games tend to other "new" games - usually ''Emerald'', ''Platinum'', ''Black 2'' and ''White 2'' and even ''Omega Ruby'' and ''Alpha Sapphire'' in the same generation, as explained under FandomRivalry below.

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** A general trend is that fans/defenders of ''X'' and ''Y'' also tend to be fans of the Kanto and Johto games, while detractors of the games tend to other "new" games - usually ''Emerald'', ''Platinum'', ''Black 2'' and ''White 2'' 2'', ''Sun'' and ''Moon'', and even ''Omega Ruby'' and ''Alpha Sapphire'' in the same generation, as explained under FandomRivalry below.



* FandomRivalry: With the Unova games, particularly ''VideoGame/PokemonBlack2AndWhite2''. ''X'' and ''Y'' won over many Gen I fans (including the stereotypical "genwunners" who typically complain about new generations) by deliberately [[PanderingToTheBase pandering to them]], and are often praised for such. However, some fans of newer generations - the Gen I fandom's traditional rivals - dislike ''X'' and ''Y'' and claim that the games are far inferior to the Gen V games, essentially providing the next [[JustForPun evolution]] of the previous Gen I vs. Gen V rivalry. The weather nerfs and the Fairy-type completely overwhelming Unova's powerhouses[[labelnote: *]]Dragon, Dark, Fighting, Bug[[/labelnote]] sparked the rivalry even further. Overall, the divide is very similar to a CasualCompetitiveConflict, with ''XY'' on the "casual" side of things and ''[=B2W2=]'' on the "hardcore" side.

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* FandomRivalry: With FandomRivalry:
**With
the Unova games, particularly ''VideoGame/PokemonBlack2AndWhite2''. ''X'' and ''Y'' won over many Gen I fans (including the stereotypical "genwunners" who typically complain about new generations) by deliberately [[PanderingToTheBase pandering to them]], and are often praised for such. However, some fans of newer generations - the Gen I fandom's traditional rivals - dislike ''X'' and ''Y'' and claim that the games are far inferior to the Gen V games, essentially providing the next [[JustForPun evolution]] of the previous Gen I vs. Gen V rivalry. The weather nerfs and the Fairy-type completely overwhelming Unova's powerhouses[[labelnote: *]]Dragon, Dark, Fighting, Bug[[/labelnote]] sparked the rivalry even further. Overall, the divide is very similar to a CasualCompetitiveConflict, with ''XY'' on the "casual" side of things and ''[=B2W2=]'' on the "hardcore" side.side.
** A large rivalry with the [[VideoGame/PokemonSunAndMoon Alola]] games has also quickly sprung up, to the point where it could be considered the ''next'' evolution of the Gen VI-Gen VII debate. Some fans of ''XY'' tend to diss ''SM'' as melodramatic and story-obsessed games with constant cutscenes that also removed many little quality-of-life things introduced in the ''XY'', as well as major things such as the National Dex and Super Training, and also having a lower Pokémon diversity than ''XY''. Some fans of ''SM'', on the other hand, decry ''XY'' as being very bare-bones with very little changes to the main gameplay, and state that ''SM'' had a much better story, soundtrack, and characters than ''XY'', with Lillie, Hau, Gladion, Team Skull, and [[spoiler:the Aether Foundation]] being superior to heir counterparts Calem/Serena, Shauna, Trevor, Tierno, and Team Flare. This time, ''SM'' is on the "casual" side of the CasualCompetitiveConflict spectrum (most of the praise is about the main game), while ''XY'' is instead on the "competitive" side (with fans praising their games' competitive battling aspects).
4th Dec '16 1:24:26 AM flamemario12
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** [[InfinityMinusOneSword Hydreigon]], thanks to [[AchillesHeel being quad weak to Fairy]] and going from "difficult to counter" to "send in a Fairy".[[labelnote:Note]]One of Hydreigon's most notable traits was how its movepool let it hit just about anything Super Effectively, making it very difficult to switch into. Because Fairies resist all but 1 of Hydreigon's common attacks and are naturally bulky on the Special spectrum (which Hydreigon utilizes), they all pretty much wall it to death while threatening to OHKO with their Fairy attacks.[[/labelnote]]
3rd Dec '16 6:24:36 PM KF106
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** Wikstrom of the Elite Four is also pretty nasty. His Probopass packs lots of pretty decent moves, including Zap Cannon for Water-types, and is impossible to drop in one hit thanks to Sturdy, his Scizor packs the dreaded STAB Bullet Punch + Technician combo utilized by lots of competitive players, his Klefki WILL annoy you with priority Spikes and Torment thanks to Prankster, and his Aegislash will either tank you completely, or utterly annihilate you thanks to its Stance Change gimmick.

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** Wikstrom of the Elite Four is also pretty nasty. His Probopass packs lots of pretty decent moves, including Zap Cannon Discharge for Water-types, and is impossible to drop in one hit thanks to Sturdy, his Scizor packs the dreaded STAB Bullet Punch + Technician combo utilized by lots of competitive players, his Klefki WILL annoy you with priority Spikes and Torment thanks to Prankster, and his Aegislash will either tank you completely, or utterly annihilate you thanks to its Stance Change gimmick.
22nd Nov '16 8:45:43 AM SCPIhpkmn
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Added DiffLines:

*** Fairy Type has drawn some consternation for being {{Retcon}}ned onto pre-existing Pokémon families-- the Clefairy, Snubbull families and Togepi were all made pure-fairy type, while Jigglypuff, Mr. Mime, Marill, Ralts, Mawaile, Cottonee, and several others were made secondary type, which can cause cases of DamnYouMuscleMemory when you try to, say, attack a once normal-type Clefairy with a fighting-type move, or a once pure psychic-type Ralts with a dark type move. Meanwhile, the last time new types were introduced-- the Dark and Steel types in Videogame/PokemonGoldAndSilver-- Steel was only retroactively added to the Magnemite family, and no pre-existing family was given the Dark Type ([[UndergroundMonkey Alolan forms]] [[VideoGame/PokemonSunAndMoon notwithstanding]]), which makes some wonder why Game Freak couldn't have just made new fairy-type Pokémon instead of retconning no less than twenty Pokemon to be an entirely different type.
21st Nov '16 1:04:49 PM KF106
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** Fellow Elite Four member Siebold is often considered by many to be the hardest opponent in the game, and for good reason. His Water-type team is full of incredibly good Pokémon, with Gyarados being a stand-out example, as it can become a speedy sweeper thanks to Dragon Dance, and it has Earthquake, Ice Fang, and a Flying subtyping to eliminate Water's common weaknesses. And even with that one out of the way, his other teammates don't let up. His Clawitzer has a lot of moves that are boosted by its Mega Launcher ability, Starmie is an incredibly fast special sweeper packing Dazzling Gleam for Dark-types, and his Barbaracle is an all-around good physical attacker which even comes complete with X-Scissor for unsuspecting Grass-types.

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** Fellow Elite Four member Siebold is often considered by many to be the hardest opponent in the game, and for good reason. His Water-type team is full of incredibly good Pokémon, with Gyarados being a stand-out example, as it can become a speedy sweeper thanks to Dragon Dance, and it has Earthquake, Ice Fang, and a Flying subtyping to eliminate Water's common weaknesses. And even with that one out of the way, his other teammates don't let up. His Clawitzer has a lot of moves that are boosted by its Mega Launcher ability, Starmie is an incredibly fast special sweeper packing Dazzling Gleam for Dark-types, and his Barbaracle is an all-around good physical attacker which even comes complete with has X-Scissor for unsuspecting Grass-types.
21st Nov '16 1:02:30 PM KF106
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** Wikstrom of the Elite Four is also pretty nasty. His Probopass packs lots of pretty decent moves and is impossible to drop in one hit thanks to Sturdy, his Scizor packs the dreaded STAB Bullet Punch + Technician combo utilized by lots of competitive players, his Klefki WILL annoy with priority Spikes and Torment thanks to Prankster, and his Aegislash will either tank you completely, or utterly annihilate you thanks to its Stance Change gimmick.
** Fellow Elite Four member Siebold is often considered by many to be the hardest opponent in the game, and for good reason. His Water-type team is full of incredibly good Pokémon, with Gyarados being a stand-out example, as it can become a speedy sweeper thanks to Dragon Dance, and it has Earthquake, Ice Fang, and a Flying subtyping to eliminate Water's common weaknesses. And even with that one out of the way, his other teammates don't let up. His Clawitzer has a lot of moves that are boosted by its Mega Launcher ability, Starmie is an incredibly fast special sweeper packing Dazzling Gleam for Dark-types, and his Barbaracle is an all-around good physical attacker.

to:

** Wikstrom of the Elite Four is also pretty nasty. His Probopass packs lots of pretty decent moves moves, including Zap Cannon for Water-types, and is impossible to drop in one hit thanks to Sturdy, his Scizor packs the dreaded STAB Bullet Punch + Technician combo utilized by lots of competitive players, his Klefki WILL annoy you with priority Spikes and Torment thanks to Prankster, and his Aegislash will either tank you completely, or utterly annihilate you thanks to its Stance Change gimmick.
** Fellow Elite Four member Siebold is often considered by many to be the hardest opponent in the game, and for good reason. His Water-type team is full of incredibly good Pokémon, with Gyarados being a stand-out example, as it can become a speedy sweeper thanks to Dragon Dance, and it has Earthquake, Ice Fang, and a Flying subtyping to eliminate Water's common weaknesses. And even with that one out of the way, his other teammates don't let up. His Clawitzer has a lot of moves that are boosted by its Mega Launcher ability, Starmie is an incredibly fast special sweeper packing Dazzling Gleam for Dark-types, and his Barbaracle is an all-around good physical attacker.attacker which even comes complete with X-Scissor for unsuspecting Grass-types.
21st Nov '16 8:20:18 AM KF106
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** Fellow Elite Four member Siebold is often considered by many to be the hardest opponent in the game, and for good reason. His Water-type team is full of incredibly good Pokémon, with Gyarados being a stand-out example, as it can become a speedy sweeper thanks to Dragon Dance, and it has Earthquake, Ice Fang, and a Flying subtyping to eliminate Water's common weaknesses. And even with that one out of the way, his other teammates don't let up. His Clawitzer has a lot of moves that are boosted by its Mega Launcher ability, Starmie is an incredibly fast Special sweeper packing Dazzling Gleam for Dark-types, and his Barbaracle is an all-around good Physical attacker.

to:

** Fellow Elite Four member Siebold is often considered by many to be the hardest opponent in the game, and for good reason. His Water-type team is full of incredibly good Pokémon, with Gyarados being a stand-out example, as it can become a speedy sweeper thanks to Dragon Dance, and it has Earthquake, Ice Fang, and a Flying subtyping to eliminate Water's common weaknesses. And even with that one out of the way, his other teammates don't let up. His Clawitzer has a lot of moves that are boosted by its Mega Launcher ability, Starmie is an incredibly fast Special special sweeper packing Dazzling Gleam for Dark-types, and his Barbaracle is an all-around good Physical physical attacker.
21st Nov '16 8:10:38 AM KF106
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** Gym Leader Grant uses Rock-types, so like Brock and the other Rock type Gym Leaders, he'd be easy right? Wrong. DEAD wrong. His Amaura is a very bulky little Pokémon that has the refrigerate ability, which turns Normal moves into Ice ones, meaning he now gets STAB off of the already powerful Take Down, and it will paralyze your Pokémon with Thunder Wave. Then, there's his Tyrunt, which has a Dragon subtyping that will remove a few of Rock's common weaknesses. It's also very powerful in general, as it has STAB Rock Tomb to do decent damage and slow you down, and Bite (Made even more powerful due to Strong Jaw) and Stomp, which will proceed to flinch you to hell if your speed drops below Tyrunt's. Needless to say, Grant almost more than makes up for the amount of very easy Gym Leaders by himself.

to:

** Gym Leader Grant uses Rock-types, so like Brock and the other Rock type Rock-type Gym Leaders, he'd be easy right? Wrong. DEAD wrong. His Amaura is a very bulky little Pokémon that has the refrigerate ability, which turns Normal moves into Ice ones, meaning he now gets STAB off of the already powerful Take Down, and it will paralyze your Pokémon with Thunder Wave. Then, there's his Tyrunt, which has a Dragon subtyping that will remove a few of Rock's common weaknesses. It's also very powerful in general, as it has STAB Rock Tomb to do decent damage and slow you down, and Bite (Made even more powerful due to Strong Jaw) and Stomp, which will proceed to flinch you to hell if your speed drops below Tyrunt's. Needless to say, Grant almost more than makes up for the amount of very easy Gym Leaders by himself.
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