History YMMV / PokemonRedAndBlue

17th Apr '18 2:32:38 PM SpinAttaxx
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** Your rival is actually the hero, and you're either the real {{Jerkass}} or some kind of [[LackOfEmpathy uncaring]] unstoppable force. In Lavender Town, he says to you "Hey, <player>! What brings you here? Your [=POKéMON=] don't look dead! I can at least make them faint! Let's go, pal!" before challenging you, without explaining what he's doing there. You then fight him, and if you've been paying attention, you will notice that he no longer has a Raticate. The theory is that the player character wounded their rival's Raticate so severely that it died of its injuries, spurring him on to beat the Elite Four before the player. But shortly after he has defeated the Elite Four, he must fight the player...who defeats him...and then is congratulated by none other than his grandfather, Professor Oak. The former champion promptly gets a scolding and is told he lost because he did not treat his Pokémon with love and trust. This gives the fairly one-dimensional rival character a deep story and portrays him as a tragic hero with terrible luck. It also makes your character's actions fairly despicable, as all this guy wanted was to be a great Pokémon trainer and win his grandfather's love. Granted, this requires some [[EpilepticTrees big assumptions]] (such as his post battle dialogue[[note]]"How's your [=POKéDEX=] coming, pal? I just caught a CUBONE! I can't find the grown-up MAROWAK yet! I doubt there are any left! Well I better get going! I've got a lot to accomplish, pal! Smell ya later!"[[/note]]) and doesn't change the fact that he acts like a {{Jerkass}} towards you.

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** Your rival is actually the hero, and you're either the real {{Jerkass}} or some kind of [[LackOfEmpathy uncaring]] unstoppable force. In Lavender Town, he says to you "Hey, <player>! What brings you here? Your [=POKéMON=] don't look dead! I can at least make them faint! Let's go, pal!" before challenging you, without explaining what he's doing there. You then fight him, and if you've been paying attention, you will notice that he no longer has a Raticate. The "Dead Raticate" theory is (which posits that the player character wounded their rival's Raticate so severely that he uses in early battles isn't in his later encounters because it died of its injuries, spurring him on to beat the Elite Four before the player. But shortly after he has defeated the Elite Four, he must fight the player...who defeats him...and then is congratulated by none other than his grandfather, Professor Oak. The former champion promptly gets from injuries attained in battle) often plays a scolding and is told he lost because he did not treat his Pokémon with love and trust. This gives the fairly one-dimensional rival character a deep story and portrays him as a tragic hero with terrible luck. It also makes your character's actions fairly despicable, as all this guy wanted was to be a great Pokémon trainer and win his grandfather's love. big part in this. Granted, this it requires some [[EpilepticTrees big assumptions]] (such as his post battle dialogue[[note]]"How's your [=POKéDEX=] coming, pal? I just caught a CUBONE! I can't find the grown-up MAROWAK yet! I doubt there are any left! Well I better get going! I've got a lot to accomplish, pal! Smell ya later!"[[/note]]) and doesn't change the fact that he acts like a {{Jerkass}} towards you.



* AnticlimaxBoss: Giovanni manages to be both this and a ClimaxBoss in the same game. After defeating him at Silph Co., the [[SequenceBreaking open-ended]] part of the game ends, and the player can fight the last three Gyms in immediate succession. In the last, one fights Giovanni again, and he is just holed up in his Gym, doing no evil schemes or anything to call attention to himself, until he can regain power, apparently needing to hire new minions from scratch. And then [[ConvenientWeaknessPlacement the player steamrolls his team with a single Water-type]]. For all his bluster about putting the player through a world of pain and not holding back, it's actually kind of pathetic. It's worse in the remakes, where instead of having a Rhydon for his trump card, he inexplicably has another Rhyhorn.

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* AnticlimaxBoss: Giovanni manages to be both this and a ClimaxBoss in the same game. After defeating him at Silph Co., the [[SequenceBreaking open-ended]] part of the game ends, and the player can fight the last three Gyms in immediate succession. In Gym can't be entered until the last, one fights first seven are cleared. There, Giovanni is faced again, and he is just holed up in his Gym, doing no isn't plotting evil schemes or doing anything to call attention to himself, until he can regain power, apparently needing to hire new minions from scratch. And then [[ConvenientWeaknessPlacement the player steamrolls his team with a single Water-type]]. For all his bluster about putting the player through a world of pain and not holding back, it's actually kind of pathetic. It's worse in the remakes, where instead of having a Rhydon for his trump card, he inexplicably has another Rhyhorn.



** Dragonite. It's the original [[InfinityMinusOneSword pseudo-legendary]] and one of the best Dragon-types in the series, and is loved by many fans for its BadassAdorable design and strength in battle. However, many other fans feel that Dragonite looks like [[Series/BarneyAndFriends Barney the Dinosaur]] -- a character infamous for being hated by adults -- and bash it for its goofy, saccharine and "overrated" design, not helped by the fact that it bears little resemblance to its graceful, serpentine pre-evolutions. It also suffers from HypeBacklash in a similar vein to Charizard, particularly among fans of later generations who label Dragonite as a "genwunner" icon and claim that its Barney-esque design is less inherently appealing than later, fiercer pseudo-legendaries such as Tyranitar, Garchomp and Hydreigon.[[note]]Incidentally, because Charizard's fiercer design is more similar to the latter group, there are a number of Charizard fans who criticize Dragonite and vice-versa.[[/note]] The debate over Dragonite's design may be why they gave [[Anime/{{Pokemon}} Iris's Dragonite]] a grumpy personality and a generally angry expression in the ''Black and White'' anime season, to defy its cuddly appearance and help "unify" its popularity; similarly, most Dragonite TCG cards from Dragon Vault onwards have shown the Pokémon with a serious expression on its face.[[note]]Incidentally, ''Red''/''Blue'' are the only games in which it is shown with an angry expression, aside from its attack animations in ''VideoGame/PokemonXAndY''.[[/note]]
** Pikachu, all for being the series' mascot. Either loved for being cute and getting lots of focus, or hated for being overused and promoted everywhere, yet still a very weak Pokémon. Especially the case in ''Yellow'' where it's the starter, walks with the player, and cannot be released or evolved. It's incorporation of elements from the anime such as expressions and PokemonSpeak provided by Creator/IkueOtani, either made ''Yellow'' more interesting than the other games, or even more fuel on just how overrated Pikachu was.

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** Dragonite. It's the original [[InfinityMinusOneSword pseudo-legendary]] and one of the best Dragon-types in the series, and is loved by many fans for its BadassAdorable design and strength in battle. However, many other fans feel that Dragonite looks like [[Series/BarneyAndFriends Barney the Dinosaur]] -- a character infamous for being hated by adults -- and bash it for its goofy, saccharine and "overrated" design, not helped by the fact that it bears little its resemblance to [[Series/BarneyAndFriends Barney the Dinosaur]] and not its graceful, serpentine pre-evolutions. It also suffers from HypeBacklash in a similar vein to Charizard, particularly among fans of later generations who label Dragonite as a "genwunner" icon and claim that find its Barney-esque design is less inherently appealing than later, fiercer pseudo-legendaries such as Tyranitar, Garchomp and Hydreigon.[[note]]Incidentally, because Charizard's fiercer design is more similar to the latter group, there are a number of Charizard fans who criticize Dragonite and vice-versa.[[/note]] The debate over Dragonite's design may be why they gave responsible for more "hardcore" depictions of it in later years, such as [[Anime/{{Pokemon}} Iris's Iris' Dragonite]] a grumpy personality and a generally angry expression in the ''Black and White'' anime season, to defy its cuddly appearance and help "unify" its popularity; similarly, most Dragonite TCG cards from Dragon Vault onwards have shown the Pokémon with a serious expression on its face.[[note]]Incidentally, ''Red''/''Blue'' are the only games in which it is shown with an angry expression, aside from its attack animations in ''VideoGame/PokemonXAndY''.[[/note]]
onwards.
** Pikachu, all for being the series' mascot. Either It's either loved for being cute and getting lots of focus, or hated for being overused and promoted everywhere, yet still everywhere for a very weak and unevolved Pokémon. Especially the case It's especially true in ''Yellow'' where it's the only starter, walks with the player, and cannot be released or evolved. It's The incorporation of elements from the anime such as expressions and PokemonSpeak provided by Creator/IkueOtani, Creator/IkueOtani either made ''Yellow'' more interesting than the other games, or provided even more fuel on just how overrated Pikachu was.



** Charizard, despite being one of the most popular Pokémon designs in the series for its dragon-like appearance, is regarded by a segment of fans of the later games as an unofficial mascot for the widely-despised "Genwunners" - people who prefer the first generation over any other, and are often perceived as doing little but complaining about later games. Not to mention, for competitive gamers, Charizard became something of a TierInducedScrappy for several gens thanks to the rise of [[KryptoniteFactor Rock-types]] and the advent of Stealth Rock. Essentially becoming the Pokémon equivalent of ComicBook/{{Wolverine}} circa UsefulNotes/TheNineties in terms of popularity and [[WolverinePublicity exposure]] - including being one of only two Pokémon to get ''two'' [[SuperMode Mega Evolutions]] (the other being Mewtwo, who suffers similar problems) doesn't help matters on either end of the spectrum.

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** Charizard, despite being one of the most popular Pokémon designs in the series for its dragon-like appearance, is regarded by a segment of fans of the later games as an unofficial mascot for the widely-despised "Genwunners" - people who prefer the first generation over any other, and are often perceived as doing little but complaining about later games. Not to mention, for competitive gamers, Charizard became something of a TierInducedScrappy for several gens thanks to the rise of [[KryptoniteFactor Rock-types]] and the advent of Stealth Rock. Essentially becoming Not helping it is its status as the Pokémon ''Pokémon'' equivalent of [[UsefulNotes/TheNineties 90s-era]] ComicBook/{{Wolverine}} circa UsefulNotes/TheNineties in terms of popularity and [[WolverinePublicity exposure]] - exposure]], including being one of only two Pokémon to get ''two'' [[SuperMode Mega Evolutions]] (the other being Mewtwo, who suffers similar problems) doesn't help matters on either end of the spectrum.problems).



* BreatherBoss: Giovanni is [[AnticlimaxBoss rather easy for being the final Gym Leader]], since most of his Pokémon are rather slow and all of them have common weaknesses, or even double weaknesses. Even more so in ''[=FireRed=] and [=LeafGreen=]'', where his strongest Pokémon in the original ''Red and Blue'' - a mighty Rhydon - was replaced by, of all things, its unevolved form, Rhyhorn.
* BrokenBase: The thorny question of whether the original Kanto games should be remade ''again'' after ''[=FireRed and LeafGreen=]''. Some feel that they are completely unnecessary given that Kanto already had a fair chance at a remake, and that Game Freak has done everything in their power to [[PanderingToTheBase appeal to fans of the original]] games short of actually re-remaking the games. Others feel that the Kanto games deserve another chance given that ''[=FireRed and LeafGreen=]'' feel very primitive compared to later remakes, had a host of problems that were fixed by later remakes (particularly denying any non-Gen I Pokémon until post-game), and had some other missed opportunities (such as going to Johto instead of the [[EndingFatigue Sevii Islands]]).

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* BreatherBoss: Giovanni is [[AnticlimaxBoss [[AntiClimaxBoss rather easy for being the final Gym Leader]], since most of his Pokémon are rather slow and all of them have common weaknesses, or even double weaknesses. Even more so in ''[=FireRed=] and [=LeafGreen=]'', where his strongest Pokémon in the original ''Red and Blue'' - a mighty Rhydon - was replaced by, of all things, its unevolved form, Rhyhorn.
* BrokenBase: The thorny question of whether the original Kanto games should be remade ''again'' after ''[=FireRed and LeafGreen=]''. Some feel that they are completely unnecessary given that Kanto already had a fair chance at a remake, and that Game Freak has done everything in their power to [[PanderingToTheBase appeal to fans of the original]] games original games]] short of actually re-remaking the games.them. Others feel that the Kanto games deserve another chance given that ''[=FireRed and LeafGreen=]'' feel very primitive compared to later remakes, had a host of problems that were fixed by later remakes (particularly denying any non-Gen I Pokémon until post-game), and had some other missed opportunities (such as going to Johto instead of the [[EndingFatigue Sevii Islands]]).



* DracoInLeatherPants: Giovanni gets this from some people claiming he wanted to "stop" Mewtwo by using the Silph Scope to obtain a Ghost to fight him and (when that failed) use the Master Ball to capture it. There's no evidence to suggest Giovanni even knew Mewtwo existed outside of [[Anime/{{Pokemon}} the anime]] and ''Manga/PokemonAdventures'' (both of which are separate continuities from the games), and the games never explicitly mention why Team Rocket was at Sliph in the first place, so this relies on ''a lot'' of {{Fanon}}. While ''Anime/PokemonOrigins'' confirms that they were there for the Master Ball, Giovanni's characterization makes it clear that he's OnlyInItForTheMoney, and Mewtwo isn't mentioned until after Giovanni's episode. Most damningly at all, ''Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon'' seems to makes the idea of Mewtwo being a goal for Giovanni AscendedFanon...except that he didn't want to "stop" Mewtwo at all, he wanted to capture it in order to use it to try to take over the world.

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* DracoInLeatherPants: Giovanni gets this from some people claiming he wanted to "stop" Mewtwo by using the Silph Scope to obtain a Ghost to fight him and (when that failed) use the Master Ball to capture it. There's no evidence to suggest Giovanni even knew Mewtwo existed outside of [[Anime/{{Pokemon}} the anime]] and ''Manga/PokemonAdventures'' (both of which are separate continuities from the games), and the games never explicitly mention why Team Rocket was at Sliph in the first place, so this relies on ''a lot'' of {{Fanon}}. While ''Anime/PokemonOrigins'' confirms that they were there for the Master Ball, Giovanni's characterization makes it clear that he's OnlyInItForTheMoney, and Mewtwo isn't mentioned until after Giovanni's episode. Most damningly at all, ''Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon'' seems to makes the idea of Mewtwo being a goal for Giovanni AscendedFanon... except that he didn't want to "stop" Mewtwo at all, he wanted to capture it in order to use it to try to take over the world. for his own selfish ends.



** Brock, the first gym leader, who became an AscendedExtra in the anime.
** Misty, the second gym leader, [[AscendedExtra was also made into a major character]] in the anime ''and'' ''Manga/PokemonAdventures''.

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** Brock, the first gym leader, Gym Leader, who became an AscendedExtra in the anime.
** Misty, the second gym leader, Gym Leader, [[AscendedExtra was also made into a major character]] in the anime ''and'' ''Manga/PokemonAdventures''.



** Though her [[Anime/{{Pokemon}} anime]] counterpart is more well-known thanks to [[SurpriseCreepy being unusually terrifying]], Sabrina remains one of the more popular Kanto Gym Leaders, thanks to her design and use of the game-breaking Psychic-type.



* FirstInstallmentWins: These games and the original 150 (+1) Pokémon are pretty much synonymous with the series. Starters from newer games are always compared to Charmander, Bulbasaur, and Squirtle, the fan favourites of Gen 1 typically dominate popularity polls, and Red and Blue/Green Oak are the most well known protagonist and rival respectively. Despite all the glitches and bad balancing, there's little doubt that the originals are the most well-remembered (mostly due to the Pokémania fad). One of the many reasons why ''VideoGame/PokemonXAndY'' and ''VideoGame/PokemonSunAndMoon'' are so well-received is because of their huge focus on elements and species from Gen I as well as [[PanderingToTheBase buffing many fan-favorites]] from said generation with [[SuperMode Mega Evolutions]] and [[UndergroundMonkey Alolan Forms]]. That said, the generation and its fans (especially the "[[NostalgiaFilter genwunners]]") frequently receive heavy resentment from fans of newer gens for this very reason; many feel that the post-Pokémania games had much better plotlines, characters, regional variety, in-game and competitive features, and Pokémon designs, and feel that the Gen 1 references in fact hamper the later games rather than boost them.

to:

* FirstInstallmentWins: These games and the original 150 (+1) Pokémon are pretty much synonymous with the series. Starters from newer games are always compared to Charmander, Bulbasaur, and Squirtle, the fan favourites of Gen 1 I typically dominate popularity polls, and Red and Blue/Green Oak are the most well known protagonist and rival respectively. Despite all the glitches and bad balancing, there's little doubt that the originals are the most well-remembered (mostly due to the Pokémania fad). One of the many reasons why ''VideoGame/PokemonXAndY'' and ''VideoGame/PokemonSunAndMoon'' are so well-received is because of their huge focus on elements and species from Gen I as well as [[PanderingToTheBase buffing many fan-favorites]] from said generation with [[SuperMode Mega Evolutions]] and [[UndergroundMonkey Alolan Forms]]. That said, the generation and its fans (especially the "[[NostalgiaFilter genwunners]]") frequently receive heavy resentment from fans of newer gens for this very reason; many feel that the post-Pokémania games had much better plotlines, characters, regional variety, in-game and competitive features, and Pokémon designs, and feel that the Gen 1 references in fact hamper the later games rather than boost them.



** Zubat: They, along with their evolved form Golbat, appear in every cave in the game (you pass through no fewer than ''four'' different caves to complete the game). They're not particularly powerful on their own, but their encounter rate is annoyingly high, they're fast (which makes fleeing from them difficult), and they will gleefully confuse your Pokémon with Supersonic at lower levels and the more-accurate Confuse Ray at higher ones. Come the remakes, they're even given the Ghost-type move "Astonish" at low levels and Bite, which they have at higher levels, is reclassified as a Dark-type move, potentially hurting Psychic-types (which are strong vs. their Poison-typing) if you're trying to use them as a counter.
** Tentacool: They're basically the Zubat of the sea. You'll run into them while Surfing ''everywhere''. They have Supersonic to confuse you just like Zubat, and add in the ability to poison your Mons as well with various Poison-type attacks while trapping them in battle with Wrap. Another issue with them is that they appear at a wide-variety of levels ''randomly''. Running into that level 40 Tenta''cruel'' after mostly battle Tentacool with levels in the high teens even becomes a BossInMooksClothing encounter.

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** Zubat: They, along with their evolved form Golbat, appear in every cave in the game (you pass through no fewer than ''four'' different caves to complete the game). They're not particularly powerful on their own, but their encounter rate is annoyingly high, they're fast (which makes fleeing from them difficult), and they will gleefully confuse your Pokémon with Supersonic at lower levels and the more-accurate Confuse Ray at higher ones. Come the remakes, they're even given the Ghost-type move "Astonish" at low levels levels, and Bite, which Bite (which they have at higher levels, levels) is reclassified as a Dark-type move, potentially hurting Psychic-types (which are strong vs. their Poison-typing) if you're trying to use move. Psychics aren't as foolproof against them as a counter.
now, and this isn't even mentioning the flinch chance both moves have.
** Tentacool: They're Tentacool; they're basically the Zubat of the sea. You'll run into them while Surfing ''everywhere''. They have Supersonic to confuse you just like Zubat, and add in the ability to poison your Mons as well with various Poison-type attacks while trapping them in battle with Wrap. Another issue with them is that they appear at a wide-variety of levels ''randomly''. Running into that level 40 Tenta''cruel'' after mostly battle Tentacool with levels in the high teens even becomes a BossInMooksClothing encounter.



** A Lass outside of the Rock Tunnel complains that there should be a pink Pokémon with a floral print. [[http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Munna_(Pokémon) Now that Black and White are out...]] Given the reported number of unused designs for Pokémon, many which got used later, it could easily have been an InJoke at the time.
** Giovanni's goal was vague in the games, and was commonly theorized as wanting to capture Mewtwo to aid in his criminal activities and/or take over Kanto. In ''VideoGame/PokemonUltraSunAndUltraMoon'', where he did succeed in his plans, his team consists of mostly ground-types, but his final Pokemon is [[spoiler:a Level 70 Mega Mewtwo.]]

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** A Lass outside of the Rock Tunnel complains that there should be a pink Pokémon with a floral print. [[http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Munna_(Pokémon) Now that Black and White are out...]] Given the reported number of unused designs for Pokémon, many which got used later, it could easily have been an InJoke a CreatorInJoke at the time.
** Giovanni's goal was vague in the games, and was commonly theorized as wanting to capture Mewtwo to aid in his criminal activities and/or take over Kanto. In ''VideoGame/PokemonUltraSunAndUltraMoon'', where he did succeed in his plans, his team consists of mostly ground-types, but his final Pokemon is [[spoiler:a Level 70 Mega Mewtwo.]]Mewtwo]] (though ironically, he's implied to ''not'' be from a universe where he won like the other Rainbow Rocket leaders).



** The fact that Giovanni, the boss of Team Rocket, is also the Viridian City Gym Leader is all but common knowledge among fans of the series who have never played the game. Strangely enough, once you enter the Gym, and read the plaque on the statue, it says right there it's Giovanni. And, yet, the character who often greets you at the entrances of the Gyms claims [[FailedASpotCheck he has no idea who the gym leader is!]]
** [[TheRival Your rival]] beating you to the title of champion and being the FinalBoss after you beat Lance is common knowledge in video game circles.

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** The fact that Giovanni, the boss of Team Rocket, is also the Viridian City Gym Leader is all but common knowledge among fans of the series who have never played the game. Strangely enough, once you enter the Gym, and read the plaque on the statue, it says right there it's Giovanni. And, yet, the character who often greets you at the entrances of the Gyms claims [[FailedASpotCheck he has no idea who the gym leader Gym Leader is!]]
** [[TheRival Your rival]] beating you to the title of champion Champion and being the FinalBoss after you beat Lance is common knowledge in video game circles.



** There is only one Farfetch'd and one Lickitung available in the game, and both must be traded for with [=NPCs=]. Farfetch'd is just as bad as the Spearow you have to trade for it, and lacks an evolution to make it more useful. It exists basically to show off the trading mechanic in-game and to give you a user for the Cut HM which is acquired very close by.

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** There is only one Farfetch'd and one Lickitung available in the game, and both must be traded for with [=NPCs=]. Farfetch'd is just as bad as the Spearow you have to trade for it, and lacks an evolution to make it more useful. It exists basically to show off the trading mechanic in-game and to give you a user for the Cut HM which is acquired very close by. They can, however, be found in the wild in ''Yellow''.



** If you manage to grind the slot machines at the Game Corner (or just buy a crap-ton of coins) to completely fill your Coin Case, you can buy Porygon... which has so-so stats and isn't very good in battle. ''Blue'' players at least don't have to work so hard for it, but it still stings.



** Even in-game, Charizard is often mocked as the worst starter in the original ''Red'' and ''Blue'', as it possesses poor to average match-ups against all of the gym leaders barring Erika. Also, its only STAB attack is the pathetically weak Ember until the level 46, and it can't even learn Fly until Yellow. Despite this, it's still capable of becoming monstrous just in time for the end of the game, being able to learn Fire Blast, Earthquake, Slash[[note]]always crits, giving it an effective attack power of 140[[/note]] and Hyper Beam, some of the most powerful attacks in the game.

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** Even in-game, Charizard is often mocked as the worst starter in the original ''Red'' and ''Blue'', as it possesses poor to average match-ups against all of the gym leaders barring Erika. Also, its only STAB attack is the pathetically weak Ember until the level 46, and it can't even learn Fly until Yellow. ''Yellow''. Despite this, it's still capable of becoming monstrous just in time for the end of the game, being able to learn Fire Blast, Earthquake, Slash[[note]]always crits, Slash[[note]]which always crits in Gen I, giving it an effective attack power of 140[[/note]] and Hyper Beam, some of the most powerful attacks in the game.



* PopularityPolynomial: Gen I has always been the most popular ''Pokémon'' generation, but as later generations were released and improved on or refined the core mechanics, general consensus among fans was that Gen I was becoming [[SeinfeldIsUnfunny more and more dated]] over time, even with the BrokenBase over ''VideoGame/PokemonRubyAndSapphire'' and ''VideoGame/PokemonDiamondAndPearl''. However, starting in Gen V and even moreso in Gen VI onwards, ''Pokémon'' games began to catch even more significant controversy over their creative decisions and gameplay, with the games becoming [[ItsEasySoItSucks easier]], more linear and story-based, and overcomplicating the Pokédex and game mechanics. With the release of Gen I on the Virtual Console, some fans disillusioned with the direction of newer games returned to Gen I (as well as ''[=FRLG=]'') to recapture the "magic" of what Pokémon was at its core, essentially causing similar sentiments to how "genwunners" felt towards Gens III through V when they were first released (if not to the same extreme extent). Many fans newly appreciated how Gen I was the least "hand-holdy" generation and had a fair bit of challenge behind it, and how it essentially delivers what was promised and expected -- the core ''Pokémon'' experience with very familiar Pokémon -- rather than causing controversy over any new feature in the game that was added or removed.

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* PopularityPolynomial: Gen I has always been the most popular ''Pokémon'' generation, but as later generations were released and improved on or games refined the core mechanics, general consensus among fans was that Gen I was becoming it became [[SeinfeldIsUnfunny more and more dated]] over time, even with the BrokenBase over ''VideoGame/PokemonRubyAndSapphire'' and ''VideoGame/PokemonDiamondAndPearl''. However, starting in Gen V and even moreso in Gen VI onwards, ''Pokémon'' games began to catch even caught more significant controversy over their creative decisions and gameplay, with the games becoming [[ItsEasySoItSucks easier]], more linear and story-based, and overcomplicating the Pokédex and game mechanics. With the release of Gen I on the Virtual Console, some fans disillusioned with the direction of newer games returned to Gen I (as well as ''[=FRLG=]'') to recapture the "magic" of what Pokémon was at its core, essentially causing similar sentiments to how "genwunners" felt towards Gens III through V when they were first released (if not to the same extreme extent). Many fans newly appreciated how Gen I it was the least "hand-holdy" generation and had a fair bit of challenge behind it, and how it essentially delivers what was promised and expected -- the core ''Pokémon'' experience with very familiar Pokémon -- rather than without causing controversy over the additon/removal of any new feature in the game that was added or removed.feature.
15th Apr '18 6:06:09 AM SpinAttaxx
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* AnticlimaxBoss: Giovanni manages to be both this and a ClimaxBoss in the same game. After defeating him at Silph Co., the [[SequenceBreaking open-ended]] part of the game ends, and the player can fight the last three Gyms in immediate succession. In the last, one fights Giovanni again, and he is just holed up in his Gym, doing no evil schemes or anything to call attention to himself, until he can regain power, apparently needing to hire new minions from scratch. And then [[ConvenientWeaknessPlacement the player steamrolls his team with a single Water-type.]] For all his bluster about putting the player through a world of pain and not holding back, it's actually kind of pathetic.

to:

* AnticlimaxBoss: Giovanni manages to be both this and a ClimaxBoss in the same game. After defeating him at Silph Co., the [[SequenceBreaking open-ended]] part of the game ends, and the player can fight the last three Gyms in immediate succession. In the last, one fights Giovanni again, and he is just holed up in his Gym, doing no evil schemes or anything to call attention to himself, until he can regain power, apparently needing to hire new minions from scratch. And then [[ConvenientWeaknessPlacement the player steamrolls his team with a single Water-type.]] Water-type]]. For all his bluster about putting the player through a world of pain and not holding back, it's actually kind of pathetic.pathetic. It's worse in the remakes, where instead of having a Rhydon for his trump card, he inexplicably has another Rhyhorn.
7th Apr '18 9:30:54 AM Chasem
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** Dragonite. It's the original [[InfinityMinusOneSword pseudo-legendary]], and one of the best Dragon-types in the series, and is loved by many fans for its BadassAdorable design and strength in battle. However, many other fans feel that Dragonite looks like [[Series/BarneyAndFriends Barney the Dinosaur]] -- a character infamous for being hated by adults -- and bash it for its goofy, saccharine and "overrated" design, not helped by the fact that it bears little resemblance to its graceful, serpentine pre-evolutions. It also suffers from HypeBacklash in a similar vein to Charizard, particularly among fans of later generations who label Dragonite as a "genwunner" icon and claim that its Barney-esque design is less inherently appealing than later, fiercer pseudo-legendaries such as Tyranitar, Garchomp and Hydreigon.[[note]]Incidentally, because Charizard's fiercer design is more similar to the latter group, there are a number of Charizard fans who criticize Dragonite and vice-versa.[[/note]] The debate over Dragonite's design may be why they gave [[Anime/{{Pokemon}} Iris's Dragonite]] a grumpy personality and a generally angry expression in the ''Black and White'' anime season, to defy its cuddly appearance and help "unify" its popularity, and most Dragonite TCG cards from Dragon Vault onwards have shown the Pokémon with a serious expression on its face.[[note]]Incidentally, ''Red''/''Blue'' are the only games in which it is shown with an angry expression, aside from its attack animations in ''VideoGame/PokemonXAndY''.[[/note]]

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** Dragonite. It's the original [[InfinityMinusOneSword pseudo-legendary]], pseudo-legendary]] and one of the best Dragon-types in the series, and is loved by many fans for its BadassAdorable design and strength in battle. However, many other fans feel that Dragonite looks like [[Series/BarneyAndFriends Barney the Dinosaur]] -- a character infamous for being hated by adults -- and bash it for its goofy, saccharine and "overrated" design, not helped by the fact that it bears little resemblance to its graceful, serpentine pre-evolutions. It also suffers from HypeBacklash in a similar vein to Charizard, particularly among fans of later generations who label Dragonite as a "genwunner" icon and claim that its Barney-esque design is less inherently appealing than later, fiercer pseudo-legendaries such as Tyranitar, Garchomp and Hydreigon.[[note]]Incidentally, because Charizard's fiercer design is more similar to the latter group, there are a number of Charizard fans who criticize Dragonite and vice-versa.[[/note]] The debate over Dragonite's design may be why they gave [[Anime/{{Pokemon}} Iris's Dragonite]] a grumpy personality and a generally angry expression in the ''Black and White'' anime season, to defy its cuddly appearance and help "unify" its popularity, and popularity; similarly, most Dragonite TCG cards from Dragon Vault onwards have shown the Pokémon with a serious expression on its face.[[note]]Incidentally, ''Red''/''Blue'' are the only games in which it is shown with an angry expression, aside from its attack animations in ''VideoGame/PokemonXAndY''.[[/note]]
7th Apr '18 9:30:10 AM Chasem
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** Dragonite. It's the original [[InfinityMinusOneSword pseudo-legendary]], and one of the best Dragon-types in the game ([[OverlyNarrowSuperlative by virtue of being one of only three with the other two being his own pre-evolutions...]]) Many feel that Dragonite looks like [[Series/BarneyAndFriends Barney the Dinosaur]]. The fact that it bears little resemblance to its serpentine pre-evolutions doesn't help matters. Plus, just like Charizard, all the worship it gets from fans who only like the first generation annoys some fans of the newer gens. This may be why they gave [[Anime/{{Pokemon}} Iris's Dragonite]] a grumpy personality and a generally angry expression in the ''Black and White'' anime season, to defy its cuddly appearance and help "unify" its popularity. Incidentally, ''Red''/''Blue'' are the only games in which it is shown with an angry expression, aside from its attack animations in ''VideoGame/PokemonXAndY''; in fact, every Dragonite card in the TCG from Dragon Vault onwards has shown the Pokémon with a serious expression on its face.

to:

** Dragonite. It's the original [[InfinityMinusOneSword pseudo-legendary]], and one of the best Dragon-types in the game ([[OverlyNarrowSuperlative series, and is loved by virtue of being one of only three with the many fans for its BadassAdorable design and strength in battle. However, many other two being his own pre-evolutions...]]) Many fans feel that Dragonite looks like [[Series/BarneyAndFriends Barney the Dinosaur]]. The Dinosaur]] -- a character infamous for being hated by adults -- and bash it for its goofy, saccharine and "overrated" design, not helped by the fact that it bears little resemblance to its graceful, serpentine pre-evolutions doesn't help matters. Plus, just like pre-evolutions. It also suffers from HypeBacklash in a similar vein to Charizard, all particularly among fans of later generations who label Dragonite as a "genwunner" icon and claim that its Barney-esque design is less inherently appealing than later, fiercer pseudo-legendaries such as Tyranitar, Garchomp and Hydreigon.[[note]]Incidentally, because Charizard's fiercer design is more similar to the worship it gets from latter group, there are a number of Charizard fans who only like the first generation annoys some fans of the newer gens. This criticize Dragonite and vice-versa.[[/note]] The debate over Dragonite's design may be why they gave [[Anime/{{Pokemon}} Iris's Dragonite]] a grumpy personality and a generally angry expression in the ''Black and White'' anime season, to defy its cuddly appearance and help "unify" its popularity. Incidentally, popularity, and most Dragonite TCG cards from Dragon Vault onwards have shown the Pokémon with a serious expression on its face.[[note]]Incidentally, ''Red''/''Blue'' are the only games in which it is shown with an angry expression, aside from its attack animations in ''VideoGame/PokemonXAndY''; in fact, every Dragonite card in the TCG from Dragon Vault onwards has shown the Pokémon with a serious expression on its face.''VideoGame/PokemonXAndY''.[[/note]]
27th Mar '18 9:01:10 AM Chasem
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Added DiffLines:

** Many Pokémon in this generation that have powerful final evolutions and are readily available in later generations are treated as this, as they are very well-known and considered to be very useful and iconic Pokémon, but lack the annoying ubiquity of SpotlightStealingSquad species such as Pikachu and Charizard. Examples include the Gengar line for being the first Ghost-types and for their CreepyAwesome yet adorable designs, and the Gyarados line for being the defining example of MagikarpPower in popular culture and evolving from a hilariously weak JokeCharacter to one of the coolest and most menacing Pokémon in the series. At the very least, saying anything bad about Pokémon such as these will get you strange looks.
23rd Mar '18 10:01:37 AM Chasem
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** The first stages of the Kanto starters -- Bulbasaur, Charmander and Squirtle. Unlike their evolutions (which are more popular but also more contentious), their initial stages are loved for their iconic status and unique, adorable designs, much like Pikachu. While it's considered acceptable in the fandom to criticize Venusaur for being a {{Gonk}} or Charizard for its HypeBacklash and overzealous fandom, criticizing Bulbasaur or Charmander is ''not''.
** Eevee and its evolutions are very popular Pokémon, all for their unique concept and BadassAdorable designs. While they are heavily marketed, most fans consider this to be fair and appropriate and take issue with any criticism of the line. Eevee is also notable for being considered one of the few acceptable theoretical replacements for Pikachu as the SeriesMascot. Its nearly impossible to find someone who hates Eevee or its Eeveelution relatives.

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** The first stages of the Kanto starters -- Bulbasaur, Charmander and Squirtle. Unlike their evolutions (which are more popular and beloved in their own right, but also more contentious), their initial stages are loved treated as un-criticizable for their iconic status and unique, adorable designs, much like Pikachu. While it's considered acceptable in the fandom to criticize Venusaur for being a {{Gonk}} or Charizard for its HypeBacklash and overzealous fandom, criticizing Bulbasaur or Charmander is ''not''.
** Eevee and its evolutions are very popular Pokémon, all for their unique concept and BadassAdorable designs. While they are heavily marketed, most fans consider this to be fair and appropriate and take issue with any criticism of the line. Eevee is also notable for being considered one of the few acceptable theoretical replacements for Pikachu as the SeriesMascot. Its It's nearly impossible to find someone who hates Eevee or its Eeveelution relatives.
22nd Mar '18 3:58:06 PM Chasem
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** Mewtwo is very much in the same boat as the original Fire starter - still very popular fandom-wide, but heavily resented by a chunk of fans of the later games for much the same reasons: utter worship by genwunners and heavy WolverinePublicity extending to it being the only Pokémon other than Charizard to get two Mega Evolutions. The long-standing and extremely vitriolic FandomRivalry between its fans and those of Lucario and Greninja (who, [[BrokenBase for the most part]], happen to be fan-favorites among those who prefer the later games) in the ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBros'' series and the Psychic-type's constant BadassDecay throughout the years does not help things in the slightest. Even so, though, Mewtwo doesn't get ''quite'' as much hate as Charizard, though mainly due to having a fair bit less WolverinePublicity as well as being a unique, ultimate Pokémon as opposed to part of a trio. It is generally considered to be a SacredCow, especially in light of its controversial treatment in ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBros Brawl'' and ''Anime/PokemonGenesectAndTheLegendAwakened'' (both of which were rectified).
22nd Mar '18 10:24:35 AM PDL
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** Pikachu, the SeriesMascot, became this after its HypeBacklash in Generation V. While it doesn't have the most vocal or active fandom out there,[[note]]in fact, some say it's a point in its favor,[[/note]] Pikachu is highly revered as one of the most famous and popular mascots in popular culture for its adorable design and universal appeal, and is widely considered the perfect face for the franchise. Seriously suggesting that the SeriesMascot needs to be changed is considered a FandomHeresy, and Pikachu's exclusion from the Gen V games is largely seen as a bizarre and unjustifiable decision in hindsight (however minor).
** Eevee and its evolutions are very popular Pokémon, all for their unique concept and BadassAdorable designs. While they are heavily marketed, most fans consider this to be fair and appropriate and take issue with any criticism of the line. Eevee is also notable for being considered one of the few acceptable theoretical replacements for Pikachu as the SeriesMascot.

to:

** Pikachu, the SeriesMascot, became this after its HypeBacklash in Generation V. While it doesn't have the most vocal or active fandom out there,[[note]]in fact, some say it's a point in its favor,[[/note]] Pikachu is highly revered as one of the most famous and popular mascots in popular culture for its adorable design and universal appeal, and is widely considered the perfect face for the franchise. Seriously suggesting that the SeriesMascot needs to be changed is considered a FandomHeresy, and Pikachu's exclusion from the Gen V games is largely seen as a bizarre and unjustifiable decision in hindsight (however minor).
** Eevee and its evolutions are very popular Pokémon, all for their unique concept and BadassAdorable designs. While they are heavily marketed, most fans consider this to be fair and appropriate and take issue with any criticism of the line. Eevee is also notable for being considered one of the few acceptable theoretical replacements for Pikachu as the SeriesMascot. Its nearly impossible to find someone who hates Eevee or its Eeveelution relatives.
22nd Mar '18 10:16:48 AM Chasem
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** Venusaur, in an opposite vein to Charizard. While one of the most popular Pokémon, it's also the least popular of the Kanto starter trio; some people consider it to be cool and badass, while others consider it [[{{Gonk}} ugly]] and unappealing compared to Charizard and Blastoise, and even its own pre-evolutions (Bulbasaur in particular is universally loved by the fandom). Nonetheless, Venusaur has many fans ''for'' [[FanOfUnderdog being the underdog of the Kanto trio]], and it helps that it was the most competitively viable of the three until Gen VI (and it still has the most viable base form).



** Mewtwo is very much in the same boat as the original Fire starter - still very popular fandom-wide, but heavily resented by a chunk of fans of the later games for much the same reasons: utter worship by genwunners and heavy WolverinePublicity extending to it being the only Pokémon other than Charizard to get two Mega Evolutions. The long-standing and extremely vitriolic FandomRivalry between its fans and those of Lucario and Greninja (who, [[BrokenBase for the most part]], happen to be fan-favorites among those who prefer the later games) in the ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBros'' series and the Psychic-type's constant BadassDecay throughout the years does not help things in the slightest. Even so, though, Mewtwo doesn't get ''quite'' as much hate as Charizard, though mainly due to having a fair bit less WolverinePublicity, likely caused by a ''very'' negative reaction to the version of Mewtwo featured in the animé's [[Anime/PokemonGenesectAndTheLegendAwakened sixteenth movie]].

to:

** Mewtwo is very much in the same boat as the original Fire starter - still very popular fandom-wide, but heavily resented by a chunk of fans of the later games for much the same reasons: utter worship by genwunners and heavy WolverinePublicity extending to it being the only Pokémon other than Charizard to get two Mega Evolutions. The long-standing and extremely vitriolic FandomRivalry between its fans and those of Lucario and Greninja (who, [[BrokenBase for the most part]], happen to be fan-favorites among those who prefer the later games) in the ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBros'' series and the Psychic-type's constant BadassDecay throughout the years does not help things in the slightest. Even so, though, Mewtwo doesn't get ''quite'' as much hate as Charizard, though mainly due to having a fair bit less WolverinePublicity, likely caused by WolverinePublicity as well as being a ''very'' negative reaction unique, ultimate Pokémon as opposed to the version part of Mewtwo featured a trio. It is generally considered to be a SacredCow, especially in the animé's [[Anime/PokemonGenesectAndTheLegendAwakened sixteenth movie]].light of its controversial treatment in ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBros Brawl'' and ''Anime/PokemonGenesectAndTheLegendAwakened'' (both of which were rectified).
22nd Mar '18 10:12:09 AM Chasem
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* SacredCow: Pikachu, the SeriesMascot, became this after its HypeBacklash in Generation V. While it doesn't have the most vocal or active fandom out there,[[note]]in fact, some say it's a point in its favor,[[/note]] Pikachu is highly revered as one of the most famous and popular mascots in popular culture for its adorable design and universal appeal, and is widely considered the perfect face for the franchise. Seriously suggesting that the SeriesMascot needs to be changed is considered a FandomHeresy, and Pikachu's exclusion from the Gen V games is largely seen as a bizarre and unjustifiable decision in hindsight (however minor).

to:

* SacredCow: A few Pokémon species from this generation are considered to be above criticism.
** The first stages of the Kanto starters -- Bulbasaur, Charmander and Squirtle. Unlike their evolutions (which are more popular but also more contentious), their initial stages are loved for their iconic status and unique, adorable designs, much like Pikachu. While it's considered acceptable in the fandom to criticize Venusaur for being a {{Gonk}} or Charizard for its HypeBacklash and overzealous fandom, criticizing Bulbasaur or Charmander is ''not''.
**
Pikachu, the SeriesMascot, became this after its HypeBacklash in Generation V. While it doesn't have the most vocal or active fandom out there,[[note]]in fact, some say it's a point in its favor,[[/note]] Pikachu is highly revered as one of the most famous and popular mascots in popular culture for its adorable design and universal appeal, and is widely considered the perfect face for the franchise. Seriously suggesting that the SeriesMascot needs to be changed is considered a FandomHeresy, and Pikachu's exclusion from the Gen V games is largely seen as a bizarre and unjustifiable decision in hindsight (however minor).minor).
** Eevee and its evolutions are very popular Pokémon, all for their unique concept and BadassAdorable designs. While they are heavily marketed, most fans consider this to be fair and appropriate and take issue with any criticism of the line. Eevee is also notable for being considered one of the few acceptable theoretical replacements for Pikachu as the SeriesMascot.
** Mewtwo. The original ultimate Legendary Pokémon, Mewtwo was revered by legions of kids and is widely considered one of the most important and infallible Pokémon. Some controversial moves involving the character, such as removing it from ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBros Brawl'' and attempting to displace its iconic ''Anime/PokemonTheFirstMovie'' depiction via ''Anime/PokemonGenesectAndTheLegendAwakened'', have only increased this sentiment, with the first movie's Mewtwo (which also features in ''Smash'') often considered to be above any form of criticism.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.PokemonRedAndBlue