Follow TV Tropes

Following

History YMMV / KillersOfTheFlowerMoon

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* TheWoobie: The number of tragedies and indignities heaped upon Mollie throughout the film stagger the imagination, made all the worse by the fact that this is a true story. She is a woman who rapidly loses her entire immediate family to a murderous conspiracy that includes her own husband, who, unbeknownst to her, [[spoiler:is slowly poisoning her using her own insulin shots on his uncle's behalf]]. As the film goes on she just grows more despondent and frail to the point where by the third act she's practically an EmptyShell just barely clinging on to life. [[spoiler:Even after her life is saved and the conspiracy is exposed, Mollie outlives her young daughter and is soon after faced with the shattering revelation of her husband's betrayal. The epilogue reveals that she only lived to be 50, and was buried next to her murdered family, with her obituary making no mention of the atrocities committed against them]].

to:

* TheWoobie: The number of tragedies and indignities heaped upon Mollie throughout the film stagger the imagination, made all the worse by the fact that this is a true story. She is a woman who rapidly loses her entire immediate family to a murderous conspiracy that includes her own husband, who, unbeknownst to her, [[spoiler:is slowly poisoning her using her own insulin shots on his uncle's behalf]]. As the film goes on she just grows more despondent and frail to the point where by the third act she's practically an EmptyShell just barely clinging on to life. [[spoiler:Even after her life is saved and the conspiracy is exposed, Mollie outlives her young daughter and is soon after faced with the shattering revelation of her husband's betrayal. The epilogue reveals that she only lived to be 50, and was buried next to her murdered family, with her obituary making no mention of the atrocities committed against them]].them]].
---------
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* UnexpectedCharacter: Almost nobody expected [[spoiler:Creator/MartinScorsese himself to pop out and deliver the WhereAreTheyNowEpilogue in the final scene]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Emma Stone mentioned all Best Actress nominees in her speech, not just Gladstone.


** Creator/LilyGladstone went into the Oscars having won the Screen Actors Guild and Golden Globe (Drama) awards for Best Actress, but lost to Creator/EmmaStone (for ''Film/PoorThings''). Most observers ranked the race as a tossup between the two, but Gladstone's loss was viewed by some as a mild upset--to the point that even Stone herself was visibly shocked and singled Gladstone out in her speech. Some observers suggested that Gladstone may have been better served by [[AwardCategoryFraud being submitted for Best Supporting Actress]] instead (she only appeared in 27% of the film, very low for a Best Actress nominee).

to:

** Creator/LilyGladstone went into the Oscars having won the Screen Actors Guild and Golden Globe (Drama) awards for Best Actress, but lost to Creator/EmmaStone (for ''Film/PoorThings''). Most observers ranked the race as a tossup between the two, but Gladstone's loss was viewed by some as a mild upset--to the point that even Stone herself was visibly shocked and singled Gladstone out in her speech.surprised. Some observers suggested that Gladstone may have been better served by [[AwardCategoryFraud being submitted for Best Supporting Actress]] instead (she only appeared in 27% of the film, very low for a Best Actress nominee).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Creator/LilyGladstone went into the Oscars having won the Screen Actors Guild and Golden Globe (Drama) awards for Best Actress, but lost to Creator/EmmaStone (for ''Film/PoorThings''). Most observers ranked the race as a tossup between the two, but Gladstone's loss was viewed by some as a mild upset--to the point that even Stone herself was visibly shocked and singled her out in her speech. Some observers suggested that Gladstone may have been better served by [[AwardCategoryFraud being submitted for Best Supporting Actress]] instead (she only appeared in 27% of the film, very low for a Best Actress nominee).

to:

** Creator/LilyGladstone went into the Oscars having won the Screen Actors Guild and Golden Globe (Drama) awards for Best Actress, but lost to Creator/EmmaStone (for ''Film/PoorThings''). Most observers ranked the race as a tossup between the two, but Gladstone's loss was viewed by some as a mild upset--to the point that even Stone herself was visibly shocked and singled her Gladstone out in her speech. Some observers suggested that Gladstone may have been better served by [[AwardCategoryFraud being submitted for Best Supporting Actress]] instead (she only appeared in 27% of the film, very low for a Best Actress nominee).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Creator/LilyGladstone went into the Oscars having won the Screen Actors Guild and Golden Globe (Drama) awards for Best Actress, but lost to Creator/EmmaStone (for ''Film/PoorThings''). Most observers ranked the race as a tossup between the two, but Gladstone's loss was viewed by some as a mild upset. Some observers suggested that Gladstone may have been better served by [[AwardCategoryFraud being submitted for Best Supporting Actress]] instead (she only appeared in 27% of the film, very low for a Best Actress nominee).

to:

** Creator/LilyGladstone went into the Oscars having won the Screen Actors Guild and Golden Globe (Drama) awards for Best Actress, but lost to Creator/EmmaStone (for ''Film/PoorThings''). Most observers ranked the race as a tossup between the two, but Gladstone's loss was viewed by some as a mild upset.upset--to the point that even Stone herself was visibly shocked and singled her out in her speech. Some observers suggested that Gladstone may have been better served by [[AwardCategoryFraud being submitted for Best Supporting Actress]] instead (she only appeared in 27% of the film, very low for a Best Actress nominee).

Changed: 20

Removed: 162

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
The Supporting discourse predated the award. The example says that De Niro wasn't expected to win, so don't think it counts as a snub


** Creator/LilyGladstone went into the Oscars having won the Screen Actors Guild and Golden Globe (Drama) awards for Best Actress, but lost to Creator/EmmaStone (for ''Film/PoorThings''). Most observers ranked the race as a tossup between the two, but Gladstone's loss was viewed by some as a mild upset. Some post-awards chatter suggested that Gladstone may have been better served by [[AwardCategoryFraud being submitted for Best Supporting Actress]] instead (she only appeared in 27% of the film, very low for a Best Actress nominee).
** Creator/RobertDeNiro lost for Best Supporting Actor, though that was less of a shock (winner Creator/RobertDowneyJr had momentum all throughout awards season).

to:

** Creator/LilyGladstone went into the Oscars having won the Screen Actors Guild and Golden Globe (Drama) awards for Best Actress, but lost to Creator/EmmaStone (for ''Film/PoorThings''). Most observers ranked the race as a tossup between the two, but Gladstone's loss was viewed by some as a mild upset. Some post-awards chatter observers suggested that Gladstone may have been better served by [[AwardCategoryFraud being submitted for Best Supporting Actress]] instead (she only appeared in 27% of the film, very low for a Best Actress nominee).
** Creator/RobertDeNiro lost for Best Supporting Actor, though that was less of a shock (winner Creator/RobertDowneyJr had momentum all throughout awards season).
nominee).

Added: 820

Changed: 1476

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AwardSnub:
** Despite his performance being critically acclaimed and the film receiving 10 MediaNotes/AcademyAward nominations (including for his two main co-stars, Creator/LilyGladstone and Creator/RobertDeNiro), Creator/LeonardoDiCaprio was not nominated for Best Actor.
** It also got passed over for Best Adapted Screenplay, a nomination that practically everyone assumed was a given.[[note]] An oddball rumor that circulated after the nominations were announced claimed that Creator/PaulThomasAnderson did an uncredited rewrite of the shooting script and that the Academy was made aware of it, explaining the snub, but most people dismissed this as poorly-sourced gossip. There's also the point that, because of the Writer's Guild's often convoluted and arbitrary appeals system, there have been many cases of writers getting nominations and even wins for screenplays that went through uncredited rewrites.[[/note]]

to:

* AwardSnub:
** Despite his performance being critically acclaimed and the film receiving
AwardSnub: 10 MediaNotes/AcademyAward nominations (including for his two main co-stars, nominations, 0 wins, marking the third time a Creator/MartinScorsese film has pulled off that feat (''Film/GangsOfNewYork'' and ''Film/TheIrishman'' are the others).
**
Creator/LilyGladstone went into the Oscars having won the Screen Actors Guild and Creator/RobertDeNiro), Golden Globe (Drama) awards for Best Actress, but lost to Creator/EmmaStone (for ''Film/PoorThings''). Most observers ranked the race as a tossup between the two, but Gladstone's loss was viewed by some as a mild upset. Some post-awards chatter suggested that Gladstone may have been better served by [[AwardCategoryFraud being submitted for Best Supporting Actress]] instead (she only appeared in 27% of the film, very low for a Best Actress nominee).
** Creator/RobertDeNiro lost for Best Supporting Actor, though that was less of a shock (winner Creator/RobertDowneyJr had momentum all throughout awards season).
** A couple of surprising non-nominations were
Creator/LeonardoDiCaprio was not nominated (passed over for Best Actor.
** It also got passed over for
Actor despite heavy acclaim) and Best Adapted Screenplay, a nomination that practically everyone assumed was a given.given with how it condensed a sprawling nonfiction book into a cinematic narrative.[[note]] An oddball rumor that circulated after the nominations were announced claimed that Creator/PaulThomasAnderson did an uncredited rewrite of the shooting script and that the Academy was made aware of it, explaining the snub, but most people dismissed this as poorly-sourced gossip. There's also the point that, because of the Writer's Guild's often convoluted and arbitrary appeals system, there have been many cases of writers getting nominations and even wins for screenplays that went through uncredited rewrites.[[/note]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* JerkassWoobie: Ernest is a dumb thug who is an accomplice in a monstrous conspiracy, and ends up [[spoiler:poisoning his own wife]], but it's easy to feel pity for him given he is ultimately just an easily manipulated pawn of his uncle, and it's shown he's not at all proud of what he's doing, even when he tries to escape the consequences. [[spoiler:His emotional breakdown after one of his children dies is one of the film's biggest gut punches.]]

Added: 908

Changed: 258

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AwardSnub: Despite his performance being critically acclaimed and the film receiving 10 MediaNotes/AcademyAward nominations (including for his two main co-stars, Creator/LilyGladstone and Creator/RobertDeNiro), Creator/LeonardoDiCaprio was not nominated for Best Actor.

to:

* AwardSnub: AwardSnub:
**
Despite his performance being critically acclaimed and the film receiving 10 MediaNotes/AcademyAward nominations (including for his two main co-stars, Creator/LilyGladstone and Creator/RobertDeNiro), Creator/LeonardoDiCaprio was not nominated for Best Actor.Actor.
** It also got passed over for Best Adapted Screenplay, a nomination that practically everyone assumed was a given.[[note]] An oddball rumor that circulated after the nominations were announced claimed that Creator/PaulThomasAnderson did an uncredited rewrite of the shooting script and that the Academy was made aware of it, explaining the snub, but most people dismissed this as poorly-sourced gossip. There's also the point that, because of the Writer's Guild's often convoluted and arbitrary appeals system, there have been many cases of writers getting nominations and even wins for screenplays that went through uncredited rewrites.[[/note]]

Added: 271

Removed: 271

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AwardSnub: Despite his performance being critically acclaimed and the film receiving 10 MediaNotes/AcademyAward nominations (including for his two main co-stars, Creator/LilyGladstone and Creator/RobertDeNiro), Creator/LeonardoDiCaprio was not nominated for Best Actor.



* AwardSnub: Despite his performance being critically acclaimed and the film receiving 10 MediaNotes/AcademyAward nominations (including for his two main co-stars, Creator/LilyGladstone and Creator/RobertDeNiro), Creator/LeonardoDiCaprio was not nominated for Best Actor.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* AwardSnub: Despite his performance being critically acclaimed and the film receiving 10 MediaNotes/AcademyAward nominations (including for his two main co-stars, Creator/LilyGladstone and Creator/RobertDeNiro), Creator/LeonardoDiCaprio was not nominated for Best Actor.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* StrangledByTheRedString: Mollie and Ernest really don't show much chemistry in the brief segment of the film before their marriage, so them getting together, though a necessary part of the plot/history, feels rather out of nowhere. While their interactions having little chemistry late in the movie is almost certainly intentional and a show of Mollie's distrust of her husband as her family dies around her, their initial interactions beg the question of ''why'' she decided to marry him in the first place, especially considering the scene ''directly prior'' to their engagement is her pointing out to her sisters that he's an obvious GoldDigger. Some have wondered if it might have made more sense for the film to make more of a point of why Mollie (and other Osage women) historically would have been compelled to marry white men.

to:

* StrangledByTheRedString: Mollie and Ernest really don't show much chemistry in the brief segment of the film before their marriage, so them getting together, though a necessary part of the plot/history, feels rather out of nowhere. While their interactions having little chemistry late in the movie is almost certainly intentional and a show of Mollie's distrust of her husband as her family dies around her, their initial interactions beg raise the question of ''why'' she decided to marry him in the first place, especially considering the scene ''directly prior'' to their engagement is her pointing out to her sisters that he's an obvious GoldDigger. Some have wondered if it might have made more sense for the film to make more of a point of why Mollie (and other Osage women) historically would have been compelled to marry white men.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The Osage Nation providing for the widow and ten children of one of their few white allies after he was murdered and his killers stole the family's life savings along with evidence about the murders was an interesting real-life element of the case that didn't make it into the film.

to:

** The Osage Nation providing for the widow and ten children of one of their few white allies after he was the killers murdered him and his killers stole the evidence he had collected about their plot (along with his family's life savings along with evidence about the murders savings) was an interesting real-life element of the case that didn't make it into the film.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** The Osage Nation providing for the widow and ten children of one of their few white allies after he was murdered and his killers stole the family's life savings along with evidence about the murders was an interesting real-life element of the case that didn't make it into the film.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* CatharsisFactor: Considering all the heinous acts [[spoiler:Hale and company]] pull throughout the film, [[spoiler:it's incredibly satisfying to see all their plans come crumbling down throughout the third act as the BOI quickly zeroes in on them for their crimes. The fact that one of the agents responsible for taking them down, John Wren, is himself a Native American makes it even better]].

to:

* CatharsisFactor: Considering all the heinous acts [[spoiler:Hale and company]] pull throughout the film, [[spoiler:it's incredibly satisfying to see all their plans come crumbling down throughout the third act as the BOI quickly zeroes in on them for their crimes. The fact that one of the agents responsible for taking them down, John Wren, is himself a Native American (played by Creator/RussellMeans' son [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatanka_Means Tatanka Means]]) makes it even better]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Did John Ramsey half-ass the assassination of Henry Roan because he subconsciously hoped it would lead to his arrest and punishment because he felt guilty about killing him?

to:

** Did John Ramsey half-ass the assassination of Henry Roan because he subconsciously hoped it would lead to his arrest and punishment because he felt guilty about killing him? His lack of resistance to the DOI agents would certainly be coherent with this interpretation.

Top