History YMMV / JaneEyre

16th Jun '16 7:21:43 PM vifetoile
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* Mr. Brocklehurst, in his over-the-top way, illustrates a change in how we see child development. When he sees Jane at Lowood, he singles her out and gives an impassioned speech to the entire school about how Jane is a liar and must be shunned. To modern readers, mendacity in a child (while not good) is not generally counted worse than, say, regular violence or sadism (which John Reed shows). But to the Victorians, lying was the ''worst'' vice that you could find in a child, a [[EnfantTerrible marker of an inherently evil character]]. (Leaving aside, of course, that Jane ''isn't'' a liar to begin with, that Brocklehurst immediately took Mrs. Reed's word as the final word, and that even a liar has the right to a fresh start and a chance to start over at a new school).

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* Mr. Brocklehurst, in his over-the-top way, illustrates a change in how we see child development. When he sees Jane at Lowood, he singles her out and gives an impassioned speech to lectures the entire school about how Jane is a liar and must be shunned. To modern readers, mendacity in a child (while child, while not good) good, is not generally counted worse than, say, regular violence or sadism (which John Reed shows). But to the Victorians, lying was the ''worst'' vice that you could find in a child, a [[EnfantTerrible marker of an inherently evil character]]. (Leaving aside, of course, that Jane ''isn't'' a liar to begin with, that Brocklehurst immediately took Mrs. Reed's word as the final word, and that even a liar has the right to a fresh start and a chance to start over at a new school).
29th Apr '16 10:52:20 AM vifetoile
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* Mr. Brocklehurst, in his over-the-top way, illustrates a change in the way we think about childhood. When he sees Jane at Lowood, he singles her out and gives an impassioned speech to the entire school about how Jane is a liar and must be shunned. To modern readers, mendacity in a child (while not good) is not generally counted worse than, say, regular violence or sadism (which John Reed shows). But to the Victorians, lying was the ''worst'' sin that you could find in a child, a marker of an inherently evil character, an EnfantTerrible liable to grow up wicked.

to:

* Mr. Brocklehurst, in his over-the-top way, illustrates a change in the way how we think about childhood.see child development. When he sees Jane at Lowood, he singles her out and gives an impassioned speech to the entire school about how Jane is a liar and must be shunned. To modern readers, mendacity in a child (while not good) is not generally counted worse than, say, regular violence or sadism (which John Reed shows). But to the Victorians, lying was the ''worst'' sin vice that you could find in a child, a [[EnfantTerrible marker of an inherently evil character, an EnfantTerrible liable character]]. (Leaving aside, of course, that Jane ''isn't'' a liar to grow up wicked.begin with, that Brocklehurst immediately took Mrs. Reed's word as the final word, and that even a liar has the right to a fresh start and a chance to start over at a new school).
28th Apr '16 6:48:14 PM vifetoile
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* FairForItsDay: When taught as a proto-feminist work, some readers may [[SeinfeldIsUnfunny find it disappointing,]] as the broad strokes of the story - ending in marriage - seem unsatisfying. But viewed in the historical context, Bronte's heroine ceaselessly fights for her agency and independence. As a small child she rebukes and corrects Mrs Reed, at a time when this simply ''did not'' happen. She runs an ad in the paper to get a job, and when her employer tries to make her his mistress she gets the hell out of Dodge and slogs through the wetlands, without recourse to known friends or places. When she gets settled she helps with a school for peasant boys ''and girls''. She refuses to marry a man she's not in love with. And when she does settle down in marriage, it is a match of passion and intellectual and fiscal equality. Everything Jane does, she does on her own terms, without compromise.

to:

* FairForItsDay: When taught as a proto-feminist work, some readers may [[SeinfeldIsUnfunny find it disappointing,]] as the broad strokes of the story - ending in marriage - seem unsatisfying. But viewed in the historical context, Bronte's heroine ceaselessly fights for her agency and independence. As a small child she rebukes and corrects Mrs Reed, at a time when this simply ''did not'' happen. She runs an ad in the paper to get a job, and when her employer tries to make her his mistress she gets the hell out of Dodge and slogs through the wetlands, without recourse to known friends or places. When she gets settled she helps with a school for peasant boys ''and girls''. She refuses to marry a man she's not in love with. And when she does settle down in marriage, it is a match of passion passion, and intellectual and fiscal equality. Everything Jane does, she does on her own terms, without compromise.


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* Mr. Brocklehurst, in his over-the-top way, illustrates a change in the way we think about childhood. When he sees Jane at Lowood, he singles her out and gives an impassioned speech to the entire school about how Jane is a liar and must be shunned. To modern readers, mendacity in a child (while not good) is not generally counted worse than, say, regular violence or sadism (which John Reed shows). But to the Victorians, lying was the ''worst'' sin that you could find in a child, a marker of an inherently evil character, an EnfantTerrible liable to grow up wicked.
6th Apr '16 3:21:41 PM roxana
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*** St. John is perfectly aware he is not well adjusted to his proper place in early nineteenth century society. He describes himself as fiercely ambitious, aggressive and lacking in the milk of human kindness. He sees missionary work as quite literally his salvation allowing him to make constructive use of his bad qualities. He sees that Jane is also mal-adjusted to their society and makes the mistake of believing the solution that's worked for him will be good for her too. The fact that resumes correspondence with her after her marriage is a tacit acknowledgement that he was wrong and Jane accepts it as such.

to:

*** St. John is perfectly aware he is not well adjusted to his proper place in early nineteenth century society. He describes himself as fiercely ambitious, aggressive and lacking in the milk of human kindness. He sees missionary work as quite literally his salvation allowing him to make constructive use of his bad qualities. He sees that Jane is also mal-adjusted to their society and makes the mistake of believing the solution that's worked for him will be good for her too. The fact that he resumes correspondence with her after her marriage is a tacit acknowledgement that he was wrong and Jane accepts it as such.
6th Apr '16 3:20:38 PM roxana
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Added DiffLines:

*** St. John is perfectly aware he is not well adjusted to his proper place in early nineteenth century society. He describes himself as fiercely ambitious, aggressive and lacking in the milk of human kindness. He sees missionary work as quite literally his salvation allowing him to make constructive use of his bad qualities. He sees that Jane is also mal-adjusted to their society and makes the mistake of believing the solution that's worked for him will be good for her too. The fact that resumes correspondence with her after her marriage is a tacit acknowledgement that he was wrong and Jane accepts it as such.
12th Mar '16 7:24:40 AM Da1tonTheGreat
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Added DiffLines:

** And then there's this casual anti-Semitic slur:
-->'''Jane''': What do I want with half your estate? Do you think I am a [[GreedyJew Jew-usurer]], seeking good investment in land?
20th Jan '16 3:14:02 AM bombadilla
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*** Rochester's attempt to be humane itself causing Values Dissonance. Rochester thinks the location of his forestland house, Ferndean Manor, [[spoiler: where he'll eventually live blissfully with Jane anyway]], could potentially be fatally unhealthy for Bertha, but locking her up in a sunless attic cell is perfectly fine. Nowadays, the roles of solitary confinement and wilderness therapy are reversed. Arguably a case of ScienceMarchesOn, but independent of scientific thought, it shows how we've changed our values to regard "being close to nature" as a glowingly wonderful catalyst of healing, instead of a terrifying, sickness-inducing hazard to women.

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*** Rochester's attempt to be humane itself causing Values Dissonance.ValuesDissonance. Rochester thinks the location of his forestland house, Ferndean Manor, [[spoiler: where he'll eventually live blissfully with Jane anyway]], could potentially be fatally unhealthy for Bertha, but locking her up in a sunless attic cell is perfectly fine. Nowadays, the roles of solitary confinement and wilderness therapy are reversed. Arguably a case of ScienceMarchesOn, but independent of scientific thought, it shows how we've changed our values to regard "being close to nature" as a glowingly wonderful catalyst of healing, instead of a terrifying, sickness-inducing hazard to women.



--> [[spoiler: "Sir," I interrupted him, "you are inexorable for that unfortunate lady: you speak of her with hate -- with vindictive antipathy. It is cruel -- she cannot help being mad."]]
*** Rochester insists that he doesn't [[spoiler: hate Bertha because she's ''mad'', she was just (apparently, if you believe him) that wicked.]]

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--> [[spoiler: -->[[spoiler: "Sir," I interrupted him, "you are inexorable for that unfortunate lady: you speak of her with hate -- with vindictive antipathy. It is cruel -- she cannot help being mad."]]
*** Rochester insists that he doesn't [[spoiler: hate [[spoiler:hate Bertha because she's ''mad'', she was just (apparently, if you believe him) that wicked.]]
19th Jan '16 2:05:46 PM bombadilla
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** Rochester's attempt to be humane itself causing Values Dissonance. Rochester thinks the location of his forestland house, Ferndean Manor, [[spoiler: where he'll eventually live blissfully with Jane anyway]], could potentially be fatally unhealthy for Bertha, but locking her up in a sunless attic cell is perfectly fine. Nowadays, the roles of solitary confinement and wilderness therapy are reversed. Arguably a case of ScienceMarchesOn, but independent of scientific thought, it shows how we've changed our values to regard "being close to nature" as a glowingly wonderful catalyst of healing, instead of a terrifying, sickness-inducing hazard to women.
** "Humane" may be a relative word here--a lot of nineteenth and even twentieth century institutions still turned out to be pretty grim places. Hence, even if better asylums were starting to open, it's not inconceivable that some people would still think it preferable to keep an insane relative at home. Even today the decision of whether or not to put a family member in an institution can be a very difficult one.
** It's actually MoralDissonance, internal to the novel, if you read some of the Brontë sisters' social essays. You have to keep in mind that [[DesignatedHero Rochester is explicitly pretty much evil]] for most of the novel.
** Actually, Jane ''does'' [[WhatTheHellHero call Rochester out on his behavior]]:

to:

** *** Rochester's attempt to be humane itself causing Values Dissonance. Rochester thinks the location of his forestland house, Ferndean Manor, [[spoiler: where he'll eventually live blissfully with Jane anyway]], could potentially be fatally unhealthy for Bertha, but locking her up in a sunless attic cell is perfectly fine. Nowadays, the roles of solitary confinement and wilderness therapy are reversed. Arguably a case of ScienceMarchesOn, but independent of scientific thought, it shows how we've changed our values to regard "being close to nature" as a glowingly wonderful catalyst of healing, instead of a terrifying, sickness-inducing hazard to women.
** *** "Humane" may be a relative word here--a lot of nineteenth and even twentieth century institutions still turned out to be pretty grim places. Hence, even if better asylums were starting to open, it's not inconceivable that some people would still think it preferable to keep an insane relative at home. Even today the decision of whether or not to put a family member in an institution can be a very difficult one.
** *** It's actually MoralDissonance, internal to the novel, if you read some of the Brontë sisters' social essays. You have to keep in mind that [[DesignatedHero Rochester is explicitly pretty much evil]] for most of the novel.
** *** Actually, Jane ''does'' [[WhatTheHellHero call Rochester out on his behavior]]:



** Rochester insists that he doesn't [[spoiler: hate Bertha because she's ''mad'', she was just (apparently, if you believe him) that wicked.]]
** Some of that was Brontë [[spoiler: trying to make it clear that Bertha wasn't to be reviled because she was crazy. In later years Brontë spoke in several letters about wanting readers to feel pity, not revulsion, but never quite being able to create that in the writing.]]

to:

** *** Rochester insists that he doesn't [[spoiler: hate Bertha because she's ''mad'', she was just (apparently, if you believe him) that wicked.]]
** *** Some of that was Brontë [[spoiler: trying to make it clear that Bertha wasn't to be reviled because she was crazy. In later years Brontë spoke in several letters about wanting readers to feel pity, not revulsion, but never quite being able to create that in the writing.]]
19th Jan '16 2:04:40 PM bombadilla
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* ValuesDissonance. Possibly the most blindingly obvious instance in 19th century English literature. Bertha Mason is shown as being ''evil beyond redemption'' because she is [[spoiler: insane]]. Worse, the very first really humane [[spoiler: asylums for the mentally ill]] were being opened at the time and place the book is set (Yorkshire in the 1810-1820 period). Rochester could have afforded [[spoiler: to send Bertha to one]] out of his pocket change with nobody knowing who she was. Yet he instead [[spoiler: kept her hidden in his decrepit attic in rags with only a drunken slattern as company, quite possibly a fate worse than death]]. Jane's acceptance of this explanation shows that she (and her author) were out of touch with the times: during the Enlightenment people started to reject the idea that [[spoiler:people who were insane were morally degenerate and evil and that it was an illness that should be treated, however bizarre the treatments occasionally became]].

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* ValuesDissonance.
**
Possibly the most blindingly obvious instance in 19th century English literature. Bertha Mason is shown as being ''evil beyond redemption'' because she is [[spoiler: insane]]. Worse, the very first really humane [[spoiler: asylums for the mentally ill]] were being opened at the time and place the book is set (Yorkshire in the 1810-1820 period). Rochester could have afforded [[spoiler: to send Bertha to one]] out of his pocket change with nobody knowing who she was. Yet he instead [[spoiler: kept her hidden in his decrepit attic in rags with only a drunken slattern as company, quite possibly a fate worse than death]]. Jane's acceptance of this explanation shows that she (and her author) were out of touch with the times: during the Enlightenment people started to reject the idea that [[spoiler:people who were insane were morally degenerate and evil and that it was an illness that should be treated, however bizarre the treatments occasionally became]].



* When Jane suggest to St. John Rivers that he need not be a missionary to the East: "Relinquish! What! ... [My hopes] of carrying knowledge into the realms of ignorance -- of substituting peace for war -- freedom for bondage -- religion for superstition -- the hope of heaven for the fear of hell?" St. John is a HolierThanThou crusader, and definitely not a well-adjusted individual - but still, he gets the last word in the book.
* Rochester dressing up as a fortune teller involves him [[BrownFace darkening his face with makeup]]. This detail is removed in most adaptations and is a likely reason why the scene is often removed entirely.

to:

* ** When Jane suggest to St. John Rivers that he need not be a missionary to the East: "Relinquish! What! ... [My hopes] of carrying knowledge into the realms of ignorance -- of substituting peace for war -- freedom for bondage -- religion for superstition -- the hope of heaven for the fear of hell?" St. John is a HolierThanThou crusader, and definitely not a well-adjusted individual - but still, he gets the last word in the book.
* ** Rochester dressing up as a fortune teller involves him [[BrownFace darkening his face with makeup]]. This detail is removed in most adaptations and is a likely reason why the scene is often removed entirely.
19th Jan '16 2:03:37 PM bombadilla
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** When Jane suggest to St. John Rivers that he need not be a missionary to the East: "Relinquish! What! ... [My hopes] of carrying knowledge into the realms of ignorance -- of substituting peace for war -- freedom for bondage -- religion for superstition -- the hope of heaven for the fear of hell?" St. John is a HolierThanThou crusader, and definitely not a well-adjusted individual - but still, he gets the last word in the book.
** Rochester dressing up as a fortune teller involves him [[BrownFace darkening his face with makeup]]. This detail is removed in most adaptations and is a likely reason why the scene is often removed entirely.

to:

** * When Jane suggest to St. John Rivers that he need not be a missionary to the East: "Relinquish! What! ... [My hopes] of carrying knowledge into the realms of ignorance -- of substituting peace for war -- freedom for bondage -- religion for superstition -- the hope of heaven for the fear of hell?" St. John is a HolierThanThou crusader, and definitely not a well-adjusted individual - but still, he gets the last word in the book.
** * Rochester dressing up as a fortune teller involves him [[BrownFace darkening his face with makeup]]. This detail is removed in most adaptations and is a likely reason why the scene is often removed entirely.
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