History YMMV / JaneEyre

6th Jan '18 11:09:34 PM TheSaddleman
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Added DiffLines:

*** Like many books of the time, the word "ejaculate" (and derivatives) is used extensively as an alternative for "said".


Added DiffLines:

* PrecisionFStrike: For the era in which it was written, the use of the word "Damn" as an expletive was on par with a book today using the F-word. Doubles down by also having a woman be the author in an era when such language was never heard coming from females.
18th Dec '17 7:53:51 AM JamesAustin
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* AccidentalInnuendo: Some of the dated language can bring this effect on us modern readers. One part in particular:
-->"The clock struck eight strokes. It aroused him; he uncrossed his legs, sat erect, turned to me."

to:

* AccidentalInnuendo: AccidentalInnuendo:
**
Some of the dated language can bring this effect on us modern readers. One part in particular:
-->"The --->"The clock struck eight strokes. It aroused him; he uncrossed his legs, sat erect, turned to me."



* AmbiguousDisorder [[spoiler: Bertha. From what little we see of her (and from what Rochester tells us of her behavior), some symptoms suggest suggests hypermania, some severe dementia, and some is like very severe autism -- though that was hardly going to have developed in adulthood. It doesn't help that her description sounds like she's badly neglected- however difficult she is, Grace could at least do something with her hair. Justified, as this was long before any modern language about mental illness was in use even by experts.]]



** Possibly the most blindingly obvious instance in 19th century English literature. Bertha Mason is shown as being ''evil beyond redemption'' because she is [[spoiler:insane]]. Worse, the very first really humane [[spoiler:asylums for the mentally ill]] were being opened at the time and place the book is set (Yorkshire in the 1810-1820 period). Rochester could have afforded [[spoiler:to send Bertha to one]] out of his pocket change with nobody knowing who she was. Yet he instead [[spoiler:kept her hidden in his decrepit attic in rags with only a drunken slattern as company, quite possibly a fate worse than death]]. Jane's acceptance of this explanation shows that she (and her author) were out of touch with the times: during the Enlightenment people started to reject the idea that [[spoiler:people who were insane were morally degenerate and evil and that it was an illness that should be treated, however bizarre the treatments occasionally became]].

to:

** Possibly the most blindingly obvious instance in 19th century English literature. literature is the case of Bertha Mason Mason.
*** Bertha
is shown as being ''evil beyond redemption'' because she is [[spoiler:insane]]. Worse, the very first really humane [[spoiler:asylums for the mentally ill]] were being opened at the time and place the book is set (Yorkshire in the 1810-1820 period). Rochester could have afforded [[spoiler:to send Bertha to one]] out of his pocket change with nobody knowing who she was. Yet he instead [[spoiler:kept her hidden in his decrepit attic in rags with only a drunken slattern as company, quite possibly a fate worse than death]]. Jane's acceptance of this explanation shows that she (and her author) were out of touch with the times: during the Enlightenment people started to reject the idea that [[spoiler:people who were insane were morally degenerate and evil and that it was an illness that should be treated, however bizarre the treatments occasionally became]].



-->[[spoiler: "Sir," I interrupted him, "you are inexorable for that unfortunate lady: you speak of her with hate -- with vindictive antipathy. It is cruel -- she cannot help being mad."]]

to:

-->[[spoiler: ---->[[spoiler: "Sir," I interrupted him, "you are inexorable for that unfortunate lady: you speak of her with hate -- with vindictive antipathy. It is cruel -- she cannot help being mad."]]



-->'''Jane''': What do I want with half your estate? Do you think I am a [[GreedyJew Jew-usurer]], seeking good investment in land?
* Mr. Brocklehurst, in his over-the-top way, illustrates a change in how we see child development. He lectures all of Lowood about how Jane is a liar and must be shunned. To modern readers, mendacity in a child, while not good, is not as bad as sadism (which John Reed shows). But to the Victorians, lying was the ''worst'' vice that you could find in a child, a [[EnfantTerrible marker of an inherently evil character]]. (Leaving aside, of course, that Jane ''isn't'' a liar to begin with, that Brocklehurst immediately took Mrs. Reed's word as the final word, and that even a liar has the right to a fresh start and a chance to start over at a new school).

to:

-->'''Jane''': --->'''Jane''': What do I want with half your estate? Do you think I am a [[GreedyJew Jew-usurer]], seeking good investment in land?
* ** Mr. Brocklehurst, in his over-the-top way, illustrates a change in how we see child development. He lectures all of Lowood about how Jane is a liar and must be shunned. To modern readers, mendacity in a child, while not good, is not as bad as sadism (which John Reed shows). But to the Victorians, lying was the ''worst'' vice that you could find in a child, a [[EnfantTerrible marker of an inherently evil character]]. (Leaving aside, of course, that Jane ''isn't'' a liar to begin with, that Brocklehurst immediately took Mrs. Reed's word as the final word, and that even a liar has the right to a fresh start and a chance to start over at a new school).



* HollywoodHomely: Given that movie stars tend to be above average in the looks department, while Jane and Rochester are described as "plain" and "ugly," this is pretty much to be expected. Although it takes a particularly strong SuspensionOfDisbelief to see actors like Creator/OrsonWelles or TimothyDalton [[InformedAttribute described as "hideous."]] Other examples below...
** The classic film starring Joan Fontaine as Jane and Orson Welles as Rochester. Co-adapted by Aldous Huxley, after his work on ''{{Literature/Pride and Prejudice}}'': It's a bit hilarious seeing Joan Fontaine, one of the most gorgeous actresses even to grace the screen, declaring herself "plain and little." To say nothing of a young Orson Welles calling himself "as ugly as sin".
** ITV's telefilm starring Creator/SamanthaMorton (the 1996 ''{{Literature/Emma}}'') as Jane and Ciaran Hinds (the 1995 ''Literature/{{Persuasion}}'') as Rochester. Perhaps inverted this with casting the rough looking Mr. Hinds. However, Samantha Morton plays "plain and little" Jane while being arguably a world-class hottie.
** The 2011 film basically puts Mia Wasikowska in plain clothing with very little obvious makeup. She still looks luminous. Rochester is played by ''Michael Fassbender''.

to:

* HollywoodHomely: Given that movie stars tend to be above average in the looks department, while Jane and Rochester are described as "plain" and "ugly," this is pretty much to be expected. Although it takes a particularly strong SuspensionOfDisbelief to see actors like Creator/OrsonWelles or TimothyDalton Creator/TimothyDalton [[InformedAttribute described as "hideous."]] Other examples below...
** The classic film starring Joan Fontaine as Jane and Orson Welles as Rochester. Co-adapted by Aldous Huxley, after his work on ''{{Literature/Pride and Prejudice}}'': ''Literature/PrideAndPrejudice'': It's a bit hilarious seeing Joan Fontaine, one of the most gorgeous actresses even to grace the screen, declaring herself "plain and little." To say nothing of a young Orson Welles calling himself "as ugly as sin".
** ITV's telefilm starring Creator/SamanthaMorton (the 1996 ''{{Literature/Emma}}'') ''Literature/{{Emma}}'') as Jane and Ciaran Hinds (the 1995 ''Literature/{{Persuasion}}'') as Rochester. Perhaps inverted this with casting the rough looking Mr. Hinds. However, Samantha Morton plays "plain and little" Jane while being arguably a world-class hottie.
** The 2011 film basically puts Mia Wasikowska in plain clothing with very little obvious makeup. She still looks luminous. Rochester is played by ''Michael Fassbender''.''Creator/MichaelFassbender''.
15th Oct '17 5:45:20 AM Ciara25
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* DesignatedVillain: [[spoiler:Bertha.]] She's the main obstacle that stands in the way of Jane and Rochester's romance and she gets a KarmicDeath at the end, complete with [[spoiler:Rochester redeeming himself by trying to save her]], yet her only "crime" is [[spoiler:suffering from insanity and being understandably furious with Rochester and her brother for imprisoning her.]]

to:

* DesignatedVillain: [[spoiler:Bertha.]] She's the main obstacle that stands in the way of Jane and Rochester's romance and she gets a KarmicDeath at the end, complete with [[spoiler:Rochester redeeming himself by trying to save her]], yet her only "crime" is [[spoiler:suffering from insanity and being understandably furious with Rochester for imprisoning her and her brother for imprisoning failing to help her.]]



* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Both the 2006 miniseries and the 2011 film seriously downplay the violence and savagery of [[spoiler: Bertha Mason]]. In 2011 film she looks more like TheOphelia than an AxCrazy.

to:

* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Both the 2006 miniseries and the 2011 film seriously downplay the violence and savagery of [[spoiler: Bertha Mason]]. In the 2011 film she looks more like TheOphelia than an AxCrazy.
13th Oct '17 5:09:16 PM Ciara25
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* DesignatedVillain: [[spoiler:Bertha.]] She's the main obstacle that stands in the way of Jane and Rochester's romance and she gets a KarmicDeath at the end, complete with [[spoiler:Rochester redeeming himself by trying to save her]], yet her only "crime" is [[spoiler:suffering from insanity.]]

to:

* DesignatedVillain: [[spoiler:Bertha.]] She's the main obstacle that stands in the way of Jane and Rochester's romance and she gets a KarmicDeath at the end, complete with [[spoiler:Rochester redeeming himself by trying to save her]], yet her only "crime" is [[spoiler:suffering from insanity.insanity and being understandably furious with Rochester and her brother for imprisoning her.]]
11th Sep '17 10:11:11 AM RicPot
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** ITV's telefilm starring Samantha Morton (the 1996 ''{{Literature/Emma}}'') as Jane and Ciaran Hinds (the 1995 ''Literature/{{Persuasion}}'') as Rochester. Perhaps inverted this with casting the rough looking Mr. Hinds. However, Samantha Morton plays "plain and little" Jane while being arguably a world-class hottie.

to:

** ITV's telefilm starring Samantha Morton Creator/SamanthaMorton (the 1996 ''{{Literature/Emma}}'') as Jane and Ciaran Hinds (the 1995 ''Literature/{{Persuasion}}'') as Rochester. Perhaps inverted this with casting the rough looking Mr. Hinds. However, Samantha Morton plays "plain and little" Jane while being arguably a world-class hottie.
23rd Jul '17 3:04:39 AM Stevebob
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* RonTheDeathEater - Rochester, who is surly and somewhat morally ambiguous, is often lumped into the same category as Heathcliff. This completely ignores the fact that Rochester is a moral guy who has made some mistakes over the years, and only puts up a JerkassFacade as a defense.

to:

* RonTheDeathEater - RonTheDeathEater: Rochester, who is surly and somewhat morally ambiguous, is often lumped into the same category as Heathcliff. This completely ignores the fact that Rochester is a moral guy who has made some mistakes over the years, and only puts up a JerkassFacade as a defense.defense.
** To wit, he looks after a young girl despite [[MamasBabyPapasMaybe doubting he's her biological father]] after [[ParentalAbandonment her mother abandons her]], is [[NiceToTheWaiter respected by his servants]], [[spoiler: keeps his violently insane wife in the attic, with a caregiver and basic amount of care, where she cannot hurt herself or anyone else, instead of sending her to an asylum, which were ''not'' nice places at the time]] and risks his life trying to save all the servants and [[spoiler: the wife he can't stand]] when [[spoiler: she sets the house on fire]]. The ''worst'' thing he does, arguably, is [[spoiler: trying to dupe Jane into marrying him whilst he's still married to Bertha]] which he pays dearly for. Seeing as Heathcliff has committed kidnapping, forced marriage and abuse, Rochester is practically saintlike in comparison.
6th Jun '17 11:30:10 AM wootzits
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*** Even in the original novel some of Bertha's actions may be seen as hinting at a better nature than Rochester attributes to her. [[spoiler: She admittedly does try to kill Rochester (who has kept her locked up in the attic for years) and her brother (who, to the best of her knowledge, sided with Rochester and abandoned her), but she doesn't actually hurt Jane even when she has every opportunity do so. She only sets Jane's room on fire after Jane has already left.]]

to:

*** Even in the original novel some of Bertha's actions may be seen as hinting at a better nature than Rochester attributes to her. [[spoiler: She [[spoiler:She admittedly does try to kill Rochester (who has kept her locked up in the attic for years) and her brother (who, to the best of her knowledge, sided with Rochester and abandoned her), but she doesn't actually hurt Jane even when she has every opportunity do so. She only sets Jane's room on fire after Jane has already left.]]



* DesignatedVillain: [[spoiler: Bertha.]] She's the main obstacle that stands in the way of Jane and Rochester's romance and she gets a KarmicDeath at the end, complete with [[spoiler: Rochester redeeming himself by trying to save her]], yet her only "crime" is [[spoiler: suffering from insanity.]]

to:

* DesignatedVillain: [[spoiler: Bertha.[[spoiler:Bertha.]] She's the main obstacle that stands in the way of Jane and Rochester's romance and she gets a KarmicDeath at the end, complete with [[spoiler: Rochester [[spoiler:Rochester redeeming himself by trying to save her]], yet her only "crime" is [[spoiler: suffering [[spoiler:suffering from insanity.]]



* HilariousInHindsight: St. John's first line in the book is "[[Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire All men]] [[Series/GameOfThrones must die]]".



** Possibly the most blindingly obvious instance in 19th century English literature. Bertha Mason is shown as being ''evil beyond redemption'' because she is [[spoiler: insane]]. Worse, the very first really humane [[spoiler: asylums for the mentally ill]] were being opened at the time and place the book is set (Yorkshire in the 1810-1820 period). Rochester could have afforded [[spoiler: to send Bertha to one]] out of his pocket change with nobody knowing who she was. Yet he instead [[spoiler: kept her hidden in his decrepit attic in rags with only a drunken slattern as company, quite possibly a fate worse than death]]. Jane's acceptance of this explanation shows that she (and her author) were out of touch with the times: during the Enlightenment people started to reject the idea that [[spoiler:people who were insane were morally degenerate and evil and that it was an illness that should be treated, however bizarre the treatments occasionally became]].
*** Rochester's attempt to be humane itself causing ValuesDissonance. Rochester thinks the location of his forestland house, Ferndean Manor, [[spoiler: where he'll eventually live blissfully with Jane anyway]], could potentially be fatally unhealthy for Bertha, but locking her up in a sunless attic cell is perfectly fine. Nowadays, the roles of solitary confinement and wilderness therapy are reversed. Arguably a case of ScienceMarchesOn, but independent of scientific thought, it shows how we've changed our values to regard "being close to nature" as a glowingly wonderful catalyst of healing, instead of a terrifying, sickness-inducing hazard to women.

to:

** Possibly the most blindingly obvious instance in 19th century English literature. Bertha Mason is shown as being ''evil beyond redemption'' because she is [[spoiler: insane]]. [[spoiler:insane]]. Worse, the very first really humane [[spoiler: asylums [[spoiler:asylums for the mentally ill]] were being opened at the time and place the book is set (Yorkshire in the 1810-1820 period). Rochester could have afforded [[spoiler: to [[spoiler:to send Bertha to one]] out of his pocket change with nobody knowing who she was. Yet he instead [[spoiler: kept [[spoiler:kept her hidden in his decrepit attic in rags with only a drunken slattern as company, quite possibly a fate worse than death]]. Jane's acceptance of this explanation shows that she (and her author) were out of touch with the times: during the Enlightenment people started to reject the idea that [[spoiler:people who were insane were morally degenerate and evil and that it was an illness that should be treated, however bizarre the treatments occasionally became]].
*** Rochester's attempt to be humane itself causing ValuesDissonance. Rochester thinks the location of his forestland house, Ferndean Manor, [[spoiler: where [[spoiler:where he'll eventually live blissfully with Jane anyway]], could potentially be fatally unhealthy for Bertha, but locking her up in a sunless attic cell is perfectly fine. Nowadays, the roles of solitary confinement and wilderness therapy are reversed. Arguably a case of ScienceMarchesOn, but independent of scientific thought, it shows how we've changed our values to regard "being close to nature" as a glowingly wonderful catalyst of healing, instead of a terrifying, sickness-inducing hazard to women.
15th Jan '17 10:58:42 AM bombadilla
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* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: Some have interpreted Bertha's "insanity" actually being social mores that contrasted with their current society. Her violent tendencies were actually caused by being locked up in relative isolation for several years.

to:

* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: AlternativeCharacterInterpretation:
**
Some have interpreted Bertha's "insanity" actually being social mores that contrasted with their current society. Her violent tendencies were actually caused by being locked up in relative isolation for several years.
*** Even in the original novel some of Bertha's actions may be seen as hinting at a better nature than Rochester attributes to her. [[spoiler: She admittedly does try to kill Rochester (who has kept her locked up in the attic for years) and her brother (who, to the best of her knowledge, sided with Rochester and abandoned her), but she doesn't actually hurt Jane even when she has every opportunity do so. She only sets Jane's room on fire after Jane has already left.]]
10th Nov '16 8:30:43 PM vifetoile
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* Mr. Brocklehurst, in his over-the-top way, illustrates a change in how we see child development. When he sees Jane at Lowood, he lectures the entire school about how Jane is a liar and must be shunned. To modern readers, mendacity in a child, while not good, is not generally counted worse than, say, regular violence or sadism (which John Reed shows). But to the Victorians, lying was the ''worst'' vice that you could find in a child, a [[EnfantTerrible marker of an inherently evil character]]. (Leaving aside, of course, that Jane ''isn't'' a liar to begin with, that Brocklehurst immediately took Mrs. Reed's word as the final word, and that even a liar has the right to a fresh start and a chance to start over at a new school).

to:

* Mr. Brocklehurst, in his over-the-top way, illustrates a change in how we see child development. When he sees Jane at Lowood, he He lectures the entire school all of Lowood about how Jane is a liar and must be shunned. To modern readers, mendacity in a child, while not good, is not generally counted worse than, say, regular violence or as bad as sadism (which John Reed shows). But to the Victorians, lying was the ''worst'' vice that you could find in a child, a [[EnfantTerrible marker of an inherently evil character]]. (Leaving aside, of course, that Jane ''isn't'' a liar to begin with, that Brocklehurst immediately took Mrs. Reed's word as the final word, and that even a liar has the right to a fresh start and a chance to start over at a new school).
1st Oct '16 7:08:01 PM Mesmiranda
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Added DiffLines:

** The 2011 film basically puts Mia Wasikowska in plain clothing with very little obvious makeup. She still looks luminous. Rochester is played by ''Michael Fassbender''.
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