History YMMV / JaneEyre

23rd Jul '17 3:04:39 AM Stevebob
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* RonTheDeathEater - Rochester, who is surly and somewhat morally ambiguous, is often lumped into the same category as Heathcliff. This completely ignores the fact that Rochester is a moral guy who has made some mistakes over the years, and only puts up a JerkassFacade as a defense.

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* RonTheDeathEater - RonTheDeathEater: Rochester, who is surly and somewhat morally ambiguous, is often lumped into the same category as Heathcliff. This completely ignores the fact that Rochester is a moral guy who has made some mistakes over the years, and only puts up a JerkassFacade as a defense.defense.
** To wit, he looks after a young girl despite [[MamasBabyPapasMaybe doubting he's her biological father]] after [[ParentalAbandonment her mother abandons her]], is [[NiceToTheWaiter respected by his servants]], [[spoiler: keeps his violently insane wife in the attic, with a caregiver and basic amount of care, where she cannot hurt herself or anyone else, instead of sending her to an asylum, which were ''not'' nice places at the time]] and risks his life trying to save all the servants and [[spoiler: the wife he can't stand]] when [[spoiler: she sets the house on fire]]. The ''worst'' thing he does, arguably, is [[spoiler: trying to dupe Jane into marrying him whilst he's still married to Bertha]] which he pays dearly for. Seeing as Heathcliff has committed kidnapping, forced marriage and abuse, Rochester is practically saintlike in comparison.
6th Jun '17 11:30:10 AM wootzits
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*** Even in the original novel some of Bertha's actions may be seen as hinting at a better nature than Rochester attributes to her. [[spoiler: She admittedly does try to kill Rochester (who has kept her locked up in the attic for years) and her brother (who, to the best of her knowledge, sided with Rochester and abandoned her), but she doesn't actually hurt Jane even when she has every opportunity do so. She only sets Jane's room on fire after Jane has already left.]]

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*** Even in the original novel some of Bertha's actions may be seen as hinting at a better nature than Rochester attributes to her. [[spoiler: She [[spoiler:She admittedly does try to kill Rochester (who has kept her locked up in the attic for years) and her brother (who, to the best of her knowledge, sided with Rochester and abandoned her), but she doesn't actually hurt Jane even when she has every opportunity do so. She only sets Jane's room on fire after Jane has already left.]]



* DesignatedVillain: [[spoiler: Bertha.]] She's the main obstacle that stands in the way of Jane and Rochester's romance and she gets a KarmicDeath at the end, complete with [[spoiler: Rochester redeeming himself by trying to save her]], yet her only "crime" is [[spoiler: suffering from insanity.]]

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* DesignatedVillain: [[spoiler: Bertha.[[spoiler:Bertha.]] She's the main obstacle that stands in the way of Jane and Rochester's romance and she gets a KarmicDeath at the end, complete with [[spoiler: Rochester [[spoiler:Rochester redeeming himself by trying to save her]], yet her only "crime" is [[spoiler: suffering [[spoiler:suffering from insanity.]]



* HilariousInHindsight: St. John's first line in the book is "[[Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire All men]] [[Series/GameOfThrones must die]]".



** Possibly the most blindingly obvious instance in 19th century English literature. Bertha Mason is shown as being ''evil beyond redemption'' because she is [[spoiler: insane]]. Worse, the very first really humane [[spoiler: asylums for the mentally ill]] were being opened at the time and place the book is set (Yorkshire in the 1810-1820 period). Rochester could have afforded [[spoiler: to send Bertha to one]] out of his pocket change with nobody knowing who she was. Yet he instead [[spoiler: kept her hidden in his decrepit attic in rags with only a drunken slattern as company, quite possibly a fate worse than death]]. Jane's acceptance of this explanation shows that she (and her author) were out of touch with the times: during the Enlightenment people started to reject the idea that [[spoiler:people who were insane were morally degenerate and evil and that it was an illness that should be treated, however bizarre the treatments occasionally became]].
*** Rochester's attempt to be humane itself causing ValuesDissonance. Rochester thinks the location of his forestland house, Ferndean Manor, [[spoiler: where he'll eventually live blissfully with Jane anyway]], could potentially be fatally unhealthy for Bertha, but locking her up in a sunless attic cell is perfectly fine. Nowadays, the roles of solitary confinement and wilderness therapy are reversed. Arguably a case of ScienceMarchesOn, but independent of scientific thought, it shows how we've changed our values to regard "being close to nature" as a glowingly wonderful catalyst of healing, instead of a terrifying, sickness-inducing hazard to women.

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** Possibly the most blindingly obvious instance in 19th century English literature. Bertha Mason is shown as being ''evil beyond redemption'' because she is [[spoiler: insane]]. [[spoiler:insane]]. Worse, the very first really humane [[spoiler: asylums [[spoiler:asylums for the mentally ill]] were being opened at the time and place the book is set (Yorkshire in the 1810-1820 period). Rochester could have afforded [[spoiler: to [[spoiler:to send Bertha to one]] out of his pocket change with nobody knowing who she was. Yet he instead [[spoiler: kept [[spoiler:kept her hidden in his decrepit attic in rags with only a drunken slattern as company, quite possibly a fate worse than death]]. Jane's acceptance of this explanation shows that she (and her author) were out of touch with the times: during the Enlightenment people started to reject the idea that [[spoiler:people who were insane were morally degenerate and evil and that it was an illness that should be treated, however bizarre the treatments occasionally became]].
*** Rochester's attempt to be humane itself causing ValuesDissonance. Rochester thinks the location of his forestland house, Ferndean Manor, [[spoiler: where [[spoiler:where he'll eventually live blissfully with Jane anyway]], could potentially be fatally unhealthy for Bertha, but locking her up in a sunless attic cell is perfectly fine. Nowadays, the roles of solitary confinement and wilderness therapy are reversed. Arguably a case of ScienceMarchesOn, but independent of scientific thought, it shows how we've changed our values to regard "being close to nature" as a glowingly wonderful catalyst of healing, instead of a terrifying, sickness-inducing hazard to women.
15th Jan '17 10:58:42 AM bombadilla
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* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: Some have interpreted Bertha's "insanity" actually being social mores that contrasted with their current society. Her violent tendencies were actually caused by being locked up in relative isolation for several years.

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* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: AlternativeCharacterInterpretation:
**
Some have interpreted Bertha's "insanity" actually being social mores that contrasted with their current society. Her violent tendencies were actually caused by being locked up in relative isolation for several years.
*** Even in the original novel some of Bertha's actions may be seen as hinting at a better nature than Rochester attributes to her. [[spoiler: She admittedly does try to kill Rochester (who has kept her locked up in the attic for years) and her brother (who, to the best of her knowledge, sided with Rochester and abandoned her), but she doesn't actually hurt Jane even when she has every opportunity do so. She only sets Jane's room on fire after Jane has already left.]]
10th Nov '16 8:30:43 PM vifetoile
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* Mr. Brocklehurst, in his over-the-top way, illustrates a change in how we see child development. When he sees Jane at Lowood, he lectures the entire school about how Jane is a liar and must be shunned. To modern readers, mendacity in a child, while not good, is not generally counted worse than, say, regular violence or sadism (which John Reed shows). But to the Victorians, lying was the ''worst'' vice that you could find in a child, a [[EnfantTerrible marker of an inherently evil character]]. (Leaving aside, of course, that Jane ''isn't'' a liar to begin with, that Brocklehurst immediately took Mrs. Reed's word as the final word, and that even a liar has the right to a fresh start and a chance to start over at a new school).

to:

* Mr. Brocklehurst, in his over-the-top way, illustrates a change in how we see child development. When he sees Jane at Lowood, he He lectures the entire school all of Lowood about how Jane is a liar and must be shunned. To modern readers, mendacity in a child, while not good, is not generally counted worse than, say, regular violence or as bad as sadism (which John Reed shows). But to the Victorians, lying was the ''worst'' vice that you could find in a child, a [[EnfantTerrible marker of an inherently evil character]]. (Leaving aside, of course, that Jane ''isn't'' a liar to begin with, that Brocklehurst immediately took Mrs. Reed's word as the final word, and that even a liar has the right to a fresh start and a chance to start over at a new school).
1st Oct '16 7:08:01 PM Mesmiranda
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Added DiffLines:

** The 2011 film basically puts Mia Wasikowska in plain clothing with very little obvious makeup. She still looks luminous. Rochester is played by ''Michael Fassbender''.
16th Jun '16 7:21:43 PM vifetoile
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* Mr. Brocklehurst, in his over-the-top way, illustrates a change in how we see child development. When he sees Jane at Lowood, he singles her out and gives an impassioned speech to the entire school about how Jane is a liar and must be shunned. To modern readers, mendacity in a child (while not good) is not generally counted worse than, say, regular violence or sadism (which John Reed shows). But to the Victorians, lying was the ''worst'' vice that you could find in a child, a [[EnfantTerrible marker of an inherently evil character]]. (Leaving aside, of course, that Jane ''isn't'' a liar to begin with, that Brocklehurst immediately took Mrs. Reed's word as the final word, and that even a liar has the right to a fresh start and a chance to start over at a new school).

to:

* Mr. Brocklehurst, in his over-the-top way, illustrates a change in how we see child development. When he sees Jane at Lowood, he singles her out and gives an impassioned speech to lectures the entire school about how Jane is a liar and must be shunned. To modern readers, mendacity in a child (while child, while not good) good, is not generally counted worse than, say, regular violence or sadism (which John Reed shows). But to the Victorians, lying was the ''worst'' vice that you could find in a child, a [[EnfantTerrible marker of an inherently evil character]]. (Leaving aside, of course, that Jane ''isn't'' a liar to begin with, that Brocklehurst immediately took Mrs. Reed's word as the final word, and that even a liar has the right to a fresh start and a chance to start over at a new school).
29th Apr '16 10:52:20 AM vifetoile
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* Mr. Brocklehurst, in his over-the-top way, illustrates a change in the way we think about childhood. When he sees Jane at Lowood, he singles her out and gives an impassioned speech to the entire school about how Jane is a liar and must be shunned. To modern readers, mendacity in a child (while not good) is not generally counted worse than, say, regular violence or sadism (which John Reed shows). But to the Victorians, lying was the ''worst'' sin that you could find in a child, a marker of an inherently evil character, an EnfantTerrible liable to grow up wicked.

to:

* Mr. Brocklehurst, in his over-the-top way, illustrates a change in the way how we think about childhood.see child development. When he sees Jane at Lowood, he singles her out and gives an impassioned speech to the entire school about how Jane is a liar and must be shunned. To modern readers, mendacity in a child (while not good) is not generally counted worse than, say, regular violence or sadism (which John Reed shows). But to the Victorians, lying was the ''worst'' sin vice that you could find in a child, a [[EnfantTerrible marker of an inherently evil character, an EnfantTerrible liable character]]. (Leaving aside, of course, that Jane ''isn't'' a liar to grow up wicked.begin with, that Brocklehurst immediately took Mrs. Reed's word as the final word, and that even a liar has the right to a fresh start and a chance to start over at a new school).
28th Apr '16 6:48:14 PM vifetoile
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* FairForItsDay: When taught as a proto-feminist work, some readers may [[SeinfeldIsUnfunny find it disappointing,]] as the broad strokes of the story - ending in marriage - seem unsatisfying. But viewed in the historical context, Bronte's heroine ceaselessly fights for her agency and independence. As a small child she rebukes and corrects Mrs Reed, at a time when this simply ''did not'' happen. She runs an ad in the paper to get a job, and when her employer tries to make her his mistress she gets the hell out of Dodge and slogs through the wetlands, without recourse to known friends or places. When she gets settled she helps with a school for peasant boys ''and girls''. She refuses to marry a man she's not in love with. And when she does settle down in marriage, it is a match of passion and intellectual and fiscal equality. Everything Jane does, she does on her own terms, without compromise.

to:

* FairForItsDay: When taught as a proto-feminist work, some readers may [[SeinfeldIsUnfunny find it disappointing,]] as the broad strokes of the story - ending in marriage - seem unsatisfying. But viewed in the historical context, Bronte's heroine ceaselessly fights for her agency and independence. As a small child she rebukes and corrects Mrs Reed, at a time when this simply ''did not'' happen. She runs an ad in the paper to get a job, and when her employer tries to make her his mistress she gets the hell out of Dodge and slogs through the wetlands, without recourse to known friends or places. When she gets settled she helps with a school for peasant boys ''and girls''. She refuses to marry a man she's not in love with. And when she does settle down in marriage, it is a match of passion passion, and intellectual and fiscal equality. Everything Jane does, she does on her own terms, without compromise.


Added DiffLines:

* Mr. Brocklehurst, in his over-the-top way, illustrates a change in the way we think about childhood. When he sees Jane at Lowood, he singles her out and gives an impassioned speech to the entire school about how Jane is a liar and must be shunned. To modern readers, mendacity in a child (while not good) is not generally counted worse than, say, regular violence or sadism (which John Reed shows). But to the Victorians, lying was the ''worst'' sin that you could find in a child, a marker of an inherently evil character, an EnfantTerrible liable to grow up wicked.
6th Apr '16 3:21:41 PM roxana
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*** St. John is perfectly aware he is not well adjusted to his proper place in early nineteenth century society. He describes himself as fiercely ambitious, aggressive and lacking in the milk of human kindness. He sees missionary work as quite literally his salvation allowing him to make constructive use of his bad qualities. He sees that Jane is also mal-adjusted to their society and makes the mistake of believing the solution that's worked for him will be good for her too. The fact that resumes correspondence with her after her marriage is a tacit acknowledgement that he was wrong and Jane accepts it as such.

to:

*** St. John is perfectly aware he is not well adjusted to his proper place in early nineteenth century society. He describes himself as fiercely ambitious, aggressive and lacking in the milk of human kindness. He sees missionary work as quite literally his salvation allowing him to make constructive use of his bad qualities. He sees that Jane is also mal-adjusted to their society and makes the mistake of believing the solution that's worked for him will be good for her too. The fact that he resumes correspondence with her after her marriage is a tacit acknowledgement that he was wrong and Jane accepts it as such.
6th Apr '16 3:20:38 PM roxana
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Added DiffLines:

*** St. John is perfectly aware he is not well adjusted to his proper place in early nineteenth century society. He describes himself as fiercely ambitious, aggressive and lacking in the milk of human kindness. He sees missionary work as quite literally his salvation allowing him to make constructive use of his bad qualities. He sees that Jane is also mal-adjusted to their society and makes the mistake of believing the solution that's worked for him will be good for her too. The fact that resumes correspondence with her after her marriage is a tacit acknowledgement that he was wrong and Jane accepts it as such.
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