Follow TV Tropes

Following

History YMMV / ItsAlwaysSunnyInPhiladelphia

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** While the show is very pointed in averting DoubleStandardRapeFemaleOnMale (while it’s still BlackComedyRape, Dee is seen as just as bad as her brother, if less calculating and more impulsive), Dee’s SerialRapist tendencies will often go ignored in fandom or retconned out of the picture due to still wanting to ship her and Charlie in a fluffy way. On a related note, the severity of her misdeeds are downplayed simply because some audience members sympathize with her for being the Gang's ButtMonkey. Some will also go as far as to shoulder the blame for how Dee turned out on Barbara and the rest of the Gang, despite Dee doing many awful things completely of her own volition.

to:

** While the show is very pointed in averting DoubleStandardRapeFemaleOnMale (while it’s still BlackComedyRape, Dee is seen as just as bad as her brother, if less calculating and more impulsive), Dee’s SerialRapist tendencies will often go ignored in fandom or retconned out of the picture due to still wanting to ship her and Charlie in a fluffy way. On a related note, the The severity of her misdeeds are also downplayed simply because some audience members sympathize with her for being the Gang's ButtMonkey. Some will also go as far as to shoulder the blame for how Dee turned out on Barbara and the rest of the Gang, despite Dee doing many awful things completely of her own volition.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** While the show is very pointed in averting DoubleStandardRapeFemaleOnMale (while it’s still BlackComedyRape, Dee is seen as just as bad as her brother, if less calculating and more impulsive), Dee’s SerialRapist tendencies will often go ignored in fandom or retconned out of the picture due to still wanting to ship her and Charlie in a fluffy way. Some will also go as far as to shoulder the blame for how Dee turned out on Barbara and the rest of the Gang, despite Dee doing many awful things completely of her own volition.

to:

** While the show is very pointed in averting DoubleStandardRapeFemaleOnMale (while it’s still BlackComedyRape, Dee is seen as just as bad as her brother, if less calculating and more impulsive), Dee’s SerialRapist tendencies will often go ignored in fandom or retconned out of the picture due to still wanting to ship her and Charlie in a fluffy way. On a related note, the severity of her misdeeds are downplayed simply because some audience members sympathize with her for being the Gang's ButtMonkey. Some will also go as far as to shoulder the blame for how Dee turned out on Barbara and the rest of the Gang, despite Dee doing many awful things completely of her own volition.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Mac would fall back into base breaking after coming out however, with some fans disliking how he no longer acts like a wannabe badass and has now become an ExtremeDoormat, especially in terms of his relationship with Dennis, who he now has a barely hidden crush on, while he, and the rest of the Gang, constantly state how much they can’t stand him. "Mac Finds His Pride” is one if not the most divisive episode of the series due to portraying Mac's struggle with coming to terms with his sexuality and his father rejecting him in a serious light, which some view as jarring and unfitting for a show like Sunny. Some fans, however, argue that Mac's personality change has to due with him no longer having to overcompensate for his masculinity or crave approval from his father, and applaud "Mac Finds His Pride" for the fact it’s not played for laughs in a tear jerking yet moving and beautifully choreographed dance scene. Mac's character would get re-railed closer to his older self in Seasons 15 and 16, along with Dennis not acting completely repulsed by him, something many fans appreciated.

to:

** Mac would fall back into base breaking after coming out however, with some fans disliking how he no longer acts like a wannabe badass and has now become an ExtremeDoormat, especially in terms of his relationship with Dennis, who he now has a barely hidden crush on, while he, and the rest of the Gang, constantly state how much they can’t stand him. "Mac Finds His Pride” is one if not the most divisive episode of the series due to portraying Mac's struggle with coming to terms with his sexuality and his father rejecting him in a serious light, which some view as jarring and unfitting for a show like Sunny.''Sunny''. Some fans, however, argue that Mac's personality change has to due with him no longer having to overcompensate for his masculinity or crave approval from his father, and applaud "Mac Finds His Pride" for the fact it’s not played for laughs in a tear jerking yet moving and beautifully choreographed dance scene. Mac's character would get re-railed closer to his older self in Seasons 15 and 16, along with Dennis not acting completely repulsed by him, something many fans appreciated.



** Mac’s ArentYouGoingToRavishMe in “Charlie Gets Molested” is both funnier and sadder where by season eleven [[note]]Charlie was clearly abused by Uncle Jack, Dennis was raped by the school librarian and his/Dee’s talk about it is literally gender reversed from their talk about Dr Gainer[[/note]], he’s ''the only one'' of the younger gang not molested. It also ties into him thinking literally any affection has to be a good thing, not getting any from his parents.

to:

** Mac’s ArentYouGoingToRavishMe in “Charlie Gets Molested” is both funnier and sadder where by season eleven Season 11 [[note]]Charlie was clearly abused by Uncle Jack, Dennis was raped by the school librarian and his/Dee’s talk about it is literally gender reversed from their talk about Dr Dee's college professor, Dr. Gainer[[/note]], he’s ''the only one'' of the younger gang not molested. It also ties into him thinking literally any affection has to be a good thing, not getting any from his parents.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FairForItsDay: Carmen, the trans woman is often talked about in an extremely insensitive way, and the gang often refers to her using the slur "tranny". That said, Carmen herself is portrayed as a kind, level-headed person and unlike most shows from that time, the show itself doesn't make fun of her for being trans, but instead makes fun of the gang (particularly Mac) for being transphobic idiots. She’s even one of the very few characters whose life isn’t ruined by the Gang.

to:

* FairForItsDay: Carmen, the trans woman is often talked about in an extremely insensitive way, and the gang often refers to her using the slur "tranny". That said, Carmen herself is portrayed as a kind, level-headed person and unlike most shows from that time, the show itself doesn't make fun of her for being trans, but instead makes fun of the gang (particularly Mac) for being transphobic idiots. She’s even one of the very few characters whose life isn’t ruined by the Gang.Gang, and her last appearance has her happily walking away with her husband and newborn baby which Dee was a surrogate for.



* GrowingTheBeard: The first season was solid but on the verge of cancellation due to having such a niche appeal. The network insisted on some form of StuntCasting to spice up the ratings, which had some pushback, but adding Creator/DannyDeVito as someone even more insane than the main group proved to be the kick the show needed. This was coupled with having Dee turn away from being CloserToEarth and becoming just as amoral and depraved as the rest. The result became one of the longest running sitcoms and a consistently well-regarded tv show in general.

to:

* GrowingTheBeard: The first season was solid but on the verge of cancellation due to having such a niche appeal. The network insisted on some form of StuntCasting to spice up the ratings, which had some pushback, but adding Creator/DannyDeVito as someone even more insane than the main group proved to be the kick the show needed. This was coupled with having Dee turn away from being CloserToEarth and becoming just as amoral and depraved as the rest.rest, as per the request of her actress Kaitlin Olson after landing the role. The result became one of the longest running sitcoms and a consistently well-regarded tv show in general.



** Mac’s ArentYouGoingToRavishMe in “Charlie Gets Molested” is both funnier and sadder where by season eleven [[note]]Charlie was clearly abused by Uncle Jack, Dennis was raped by the librarian and his/Dee’s talk about it is literally gender reversed from their talk about Dr Gainer[[/note]], he’s ''the only one'' of the younger gang not molested. It also ties into him thinking literally any affection has to be a good thing, not getting any from his parents.

to:

** Mac’s ArentYouGoingToRavishMe in “Charlie Gets Molested” is both funnier and sadder where by season eleven [[note]]Charlie was clearly abused by Uncle Jack, Dennis was raped by the school librarian and his/Dee’s talk about it is literally gender reversed from their talk about Dr Gainer[[/note]], he’s ''the only one'' of the younger gang not molested. It also ties into him thinking literally any affection has to be a good thing, not getting any from his parents.



** The Waitress gets this treatment, too, from just about everyone besides [[StalkerWithACrush Charlie]] (who is, interestingly enough, played by Mary Elizabeth Ellis's real-life husband). Shallow Dennis talks about her as if she were [[AbhorrentAdmirer downright repulsive]], but she is actually quite pretty. It can be assumed that she's rejected by most men because of her alcoholism and parasitic and toxic behavior.

to:

** The Waitress gets this treatment, too, from just about everyone besides [[StalkerWithACrush Charlie]] (who is, interestingly enough, played by Mary Elizabeth Ellis's real-life husband). Shallow Dennis talks about her as if she were [[AbhorrentAdmirer downright repulsive]], even only giving her one star on the sex tape they made, but she is actually quite pretty. It can could be assumed that she's rejected by most men because of her alcoholism and parasitic and toxic behavior.



** Charlie is a StalkerWithACrush to the Waitress who keeps saying he will leave her alone but never actually does, was seconds away from torturing a "leprechaun", and is just as sexist as Mac and Dennis when he's angry enough. But he's a victim of CSA by his uncle, and no matter how much he tries to deny it, he wrote a whole musical about being in love with his abuser. He was also raped by Dee, and doesn't want to be alone with her after (although he does quarantine with her during the COVID pandemic later on). He also grew up fatherless and not even knowing who his father was as his mom was a prostitute. When he finally does meet his biological father he dies a few days later, leading him to have an emotional breakdown over having to carry his corpse up a mountain when he was never there for him growing up, and only finding closure in the fact his death means he doesn’t have to wait for him to show up.

to:

** Charlie is a StalkerWithACrush to the Waitress who keeps saying he will leave her alone but never actually does, was seconds away from torturing a "leprechaun", and is just as sexist as Mac and Dennis when he's angry enough. But he's a victim of CSA by his uncle, and no matter how much he tries to deny it, he wrote a whole musical about being in love with his abuser. He was also raped by Dee, and doesn't want to be alone with her after (although he does quarantine with her during the COVID pandemic later on).on, along with him joining her on her excursion to get ice in "The Gang Solves Global Warming", albeit the promise of free cat food). He also grew up fatherless and not even knowing who his father was as his mom was a prostitute. When he finally does meet his biological father he dies a few days later, leading him to have an emotional breakdown over having to carry his corpse up a mountain when he was never there for him growing up, and only finding closure in the fact his death means he doesn’t have to wait for him to show up.



* MisaimedFandom: The show has gotten both praise from racists and criticism from activists for its occasional depictions of {{Blackface}} and {{Brownface}} with Dee's acting characters and the Gang's ''Lethal Weapon'' sequels. Both sides completely miss the point that, not only are the characters all terrible racists, but the portrayals are depicted as ''offensive'' InUniverse, with bystanders of all races reacting to the acts with horror and anger.

to:

* MisaimedFandom: The show has gotten both praise from racists and criticism from activists for its occasional depictions of {{Blackface}} and {{Brownface}} with Dee's acting characters and the Gang's ''Lethal Weapon'' sequels.sequels, both of which have led to five episode of the show being banned/pulled from streaming services. Both sides completely miss the point that, not only are the characters all terrible racists, but the portrayals are depicted as ''offensive'' InUniverse, with bystanders of all races reacting to the acts with horror and anger.



** In "Who Got Dee Pregnant?" the episode begins with the guys discussing a plan to spend the night at the city museum, dodging security and generally enjoying themselves. This quickly gets pushed aside once Dee tells them one of them got her pregnant and they spend the rest of the plot trying to figure out who. While the episode was good, it would have been interesting to see the museum hijinks come to pass.

to:

** In "Who Got Dee Pregnant?" the episode begins with the guys discussing a plan to spend the night at the city museum, dodging security and generally enjoying themselves. This quickly gets pushed aside once Dee tells them one of them got her pregnant and they spend the rest of the plot trying to figure out who. While the episode was good, it would have also been interesting to see the museum hijinks come to pass.



** Thanks to the large number of references to the then-current events of the TurnOfTheMillennium. The show debuted during that decade, as such many episodes make references and jokes that seem to be ripped from that decade's headlines, such as references to the gas crisis, terrorism, waterboarding, Hurricane Katrina, North Korea, and the bar getting a new flatscreen TV and Blu-ray player, just to name a few. Notably, there have been plotlines based around an episode taking place during the Bush, Obama ''and'' Trump administrations.

to:

** Thanks to the large number of references to the then-current events of the TurnOfTheMillennium. The show debuted during that decade, as such many episodes make references and jokes that seem to be ripped from that decade's headlines, such as references to the gas crisis, terrorism, waterboarding, Hurricane Katrina, North Korea, and the bar getting a new flatscreen TV and Blu-ray player, just to name a few. Notably, there have been plotlines plot lines based around an episode taking place during the Bush, Obama Obama, Trump ''and'' Trump Biden administrations.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
hopefully gave enough proof on this one (and felt like the best time to post it after prev entry) and don't come off terrible

Added DiffLines:

** A lot of people think Dennis’s “not going to happen willingly” to Mac is giving him an out. Normally that would be unthinkable, but Dennis is… [[SerialRapist Dennis]]. He has a ''lot'' of issues around consent, even WordOfGod says his only issue with being bottom is when he’s expected to be passive, and has more respect for predatory attitudes towards sex (like him and Dee and even Frank) than desperate neediness. Tellingly he seems to like Mac far more, earlier on in the show, when Mac clearly got off on things like simulated raping him in the musical and being pushy with the buyers when they’re playing estate agents.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Dennis' true feelings for Mac. He has told Mac on several occasions that he hates him, and he has certainly demonstrated signs of that, especially in the later seasons: scratching Mac, pushing Mac away, slamming the door in Mac's face, etc. However, there are times where he seems to show some signs of deeper feelings (such as his initial reaction when Mac gave him the RPG in "The Gang Tends Bar") and even times where he comes across as a CrazyJealousGuy over Mac (for example, in "Who Got Dee Pregnant?", compare his reactions to when he thought Charlie slept with Dee versus when he thought Mac slept with her). Not to mention, in "The Gang Does a Clip Show," when Charlie asks Dennis why he still lives with Mac despite claiming to hate him so much, Dennis doesn't answer (although this may be a compromised example due to it being unclear whose mind the audience is supposed to be in). Does Dennis genuinely hate Mac, or is his erratic behavior a sign of him hiding his actual feelings?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Charlie actually likes Dee. He admitts that he doesn't enjoy bullying her, but does it because his friends do, and treats her considerably more like a friend if they are alone. Notably, in ''The Waitress Is Getting Married'', Dennis gifts Dee's boyfriend a carton full of hornets after the latter makes fun of Dee and reveals he is only with her to break her heart. Their relationship only really goes sour when she sexually assaults him.

to:

** Charlie actually likes Dee. He admitts that he doesn't enjoy bullying her, but does it because his friends do, and treats her considerably more like a friend if they are alone. Notably, in ''The Waitress Is Getting Married'', Dennis Charlie gifts Dee's boyfriend a carton box full of hornets after the latter makes fun of Dee and reveals he is only with her to break her heart. Their relationship only really goes sour when she sexually assaults him.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Charlie actually likes Dee. He admitts that he doesn't enjoy bullying her, but does it because his friends do, and treats her considerably more like a friend if they are alone. Notably, in ''The Waitress Is Getting Married'', Dennis gifts Dee's boyfriend a carton full of hornets after the latter makes fun of Dee and reveals he is only with her to break her heart.

to:

** Charlie actually likes Dee. He admitts that he doesn't enjoy bullying her, but does it because his friends do, and treats her considerably more like a friend if they are alone. Notably, in ''The Waitress Is Getting Married'', Dennis gifts Dee's boyfriend a carton full of hornets after the latter makes fun of Dee and reveals he is only with her to break her heart. Their relationship only really goes sour when she sexually assaults him.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Charlie actually likes Dee. He admitts that he doesn't enjoy bullying her, but does it because his friends do, and treats her considerably more like a friend if they are alone. Notably, in ''The Waitress Is Getting Married'', Dennis gifts Dee's boyfriend a carton full of hornets after the latter makes fun of Dee and reveals he is only with her to break her heart.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* GrowingTheBeard: The show really came into its own during the second season, adding Creator/DannyDeVito as a contrast to the main four, turning Dee away from the CloserToEarth trope and generally going for a more manic, darker, exaggerated tone.

to:

* GrowingTheBeard: The show really came into its own during first season was solid but on the second season, verge of cancellation due to having such a niche appeal. The network insisted on some form of StuntCasting to spice up the ratings, which had some pushback, but adding Creator/DannyDeVito as a contrast to someone even more insane than the main four, turning group proved to be the kick the show needed. This was coupled with having Dee turn away from the being CloserToEarth trope and generally going for becoming just as amoral and depraved as the rest. The result became one of the longest running sitcoms and a more manic, darker, exaggerated tone. consistently well-regarded tv show in general.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** "Charlie Catches a Leprechaun" has the Gang's attempt at running a "mobile bar" on Saint Patrick's Day failing because Dennis insists on an online pay system instead of cash, with the joke being that Dennis refuses to accept online pay systems are a novelty and too complex for the average consumer. By TheNewTwenties, mobile pay systems such as Venmo and Apple Pay became mainstream and the most popular payment methods for many consumers, so Dennis insisting on his method would be considered a normal business practice.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Similarly, Charlie's breakdown in the Season 15 finale is just as noteworthy, due to being one of the more effective TearJerker moments in the whole series.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
added example(s)

Added DiffLines:

** Lyle Korman in "Paddy's Pub: The Worst Bar in Philadelphia" is played by Creator/FisherStevens, who would later go on to play Hugo Baker in ''Series/{{Succession}}''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FairForItsDay: Carmen, the trans woman is often talked about in an extremely insensitive way, and the gang often refers to her using the slur "tranny". That said, Carmen herself is portrayed as a kind, level-headed person and unlike most shows from that time, the show itself doesn't make fun of her for being trans, but instead makes fun of the gang for being transphobic idiots.

to:

* FairForItsDay: Carmen, the trans woman is often talked about in an extremely insensitive way, and the gang often refers to her using the slur "tranny". That said, Carmen herself is portrayed as a kind, level-headed person and unlike most shows from that time, the show itself doesn't make fun of her for being trans, but instead makes fun of the gang (particularly Mac) for being transphobic idiots.idiots. She’s even one of the very few characters whose life isn’t ruined by the Gang.



** Zig-zagged with Dee and Charlie. While they are played by the pretty Kaitlin Olson and the adorable Charlie Day, their long list of character flaws and poor personal hygiene in the latter's case routinely earns them scorn from the other members of the Gang, along with the fact the Gang are just assholes in general. Dee in particular manages to entice several potential romantic partners before later driving them away with her awful personality. Although worth noting is that Olson much prefers playing the "ugly Dee" over a standard [[WomenAreWiser closer-to-Earth]] female character.

to:

** Zig-zagged with Dee and Charlie. While they are played by the pretty Kaitlin Olson and the adorable Charlie Day, their long list of character flaws and poor personal hygiene in the latter's case routinely earns them scorn from the other members of the Gang, along with the fact the Gang are just assholes in general. Dee in particular manages to entice several potential romantic partners before later driving them away with her awful personality.personality, along with outsiders to the Gang acknowledging she’s quite attractive. Although worth noting is that Olson much prefers playing the "ugly Dee" over a standard [[WomenAreWiser closer-to-Earth]] female character.



** Charlie is a StalkerWithACrush to the Waitress who keeps saying he will leave her alone but never actually does, was seconds away from torturing a "leprechaun", and is just as sexist as Mac and Dennis when he's angry enough. But he's a victim of CSA by his uncle, and no matter how much he tries to deny it, he wrote a whole musical about being in love with his abuser. He was also raped by Dee, and doesn't want to be alone with her after.

to:

** Charlie is a StalkerWithACrush to the Waitress who keeps saying he will leave her alone but never actually does, was seconds away from torturing a "leprechaun", and is just as sexist as Mac and Dennis when he's angry enough. But he's a victim of CSA by his uncle, and no matter how much he tries to deny it, he wrote a whole musical about being in love with his abuser. He was also raped by Dee, and doesn't want to be alone with her after.after (although he does quarantine with her during the COVID pandemic later on). He also grew up fatherless and not even knowing who his father was as his mom was a prostitute. When he finally does meet his biological father he dies a few days later, leading him to have an emotional breakdown over having to carry his corpse up a mountain when he was never there for him growing up, and only finding closure in the fact his death means he doesn’t have to wait for him to show up.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
I forgot that Hilarious in Hindsight had its own page here, so I moved this entry there.


* HilariousInHindsight: Mac and Dennis' complaints about ''Series/SexAndTheCity'' being a long show that won't die comes across as ironic now that this show has been running for almost twenty years.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* HilariousInHindsight: Mac and Dennis' complaints about ''Series/SexAndTheCity'' being a long show that won't die comes across as ironic now that this show has been running for almost twenty years.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Several fans are grossed out by the [=McPoyles=] due to their many incestuous moments and overall {{Squick}} factor. Despite this, they are also behind some of the funniest and most standout episodes of the whole series.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Part about Dennis sounds better this way IMO


** When he’s not being labelled a [[RonTheDeathEater uniquely evil sociopath who was born awful]], Dennis will get forgiven for anything due to being attractive and having a FreudianExcuse. MisaimedFandom is also greatly at play, with some fans actively praising him for his [[ManipulativeBastard manipulative]] [[TheChessmaster Chessmaster]] tendencies and use of the D.E.N.N.I.S. System. Even Glenn Howerton has had to point out that [[FreudianExcuseIsNoExcuse while Dennis is deeply broken and insecure, he’s still a monster]], getting off to sexual conquests not able to escape his soundproofed room.

to:

** When he’s not being labelled a [[RonTheDeathEater uniquely evil sociopath who was born awful]], Dennis will get forgiven for anything due to being attractive and having a FreudianExcuse. MisaimedFandom is also greatly at play, with some fans actively praising him for his [[ManipulativeBastard manipulative]] [[TheChessmaster Chessmaster]] tendencies and use of the D.E.N.N.I.S. System. Even Glenn Howerton has had to point out that [[FreudianExcuseIsNoExcuse while Dennis is deeply broken and insecure, he’s still a monster]], getting off to sexual conquests not able to escape his soundproofed room.monster]].



* FairForItsDay: Carmen, the trans woman is often talked about in an extremely insensitive way, and the gang often refers to her using the slur "tranny". That said, Carmen herself is portrayed a kind, level-headed person and unlike most shows from that time, the show itself doesn't make fun of her for being trans, but instead makes fun of the gang for being transphobic idiots.

to:

* FairForItsDay: Carmen, the trans woman is often talked about in an extremely insensitive way, and the gang often refers to her using the slur "tranny". That said, Carmen herself is portrayed as a kind, level-headed person and unlike most shows from that time, the show itself doesn't make fun of her for being trans, but instead makes fun of the gang for being transphobic idiots.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Future Joss Whedon ProductionPosse member Fran Kranz has a small role in "Who Pooped the Bed?" as the Econ student who just wants to see some poop.

to:

** Future Joss Whedon ProductionPosse member Fran Kranz Creator/FranKranz has a small role in "Who Pooped the Bed?" as the Econ student who just wants to see some poop.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Mac’s ArentYouGoingToRavishMe in “Charlie Gets Molested” is both funnier and sadder where by season eleven [[note]]Charlie was clearly abused by Uncle Jack, Dennis was raped by the librarian and his/Dee’s talk about it is literally gender reversed from their talk about Dr Gainer[[/note]], he’s ''the only one'' of the younger gang not molested. It also ties into him thinking literally any affection has to be a good thing, not getting any from his parents.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Zig-zagged with Dee and Charlie. While they are played by the pretty Kaitlin Olson and the adorable Charlie Day, their long list of character flaws and poor personal hygiene routinely earns them scorn from the other members of the Gang. Dee in particular manages to entice several potential romantic partners before later driving them away with her awful personality. Although worth noting is that Olson much prefers playing the "ugly Dee" over a standard [[WomenAreWiser closer-to-Earth]] female character.

to:

** Zig-zagged with Dee and Charlie. While they are played by the pretty Kaitlin Olson and the adorable Charlie Day, their long list of character flaws and poor personal hygiene in the latter's case routinely earns them scorn from the other members of the Gang.Gang, along with the fact the Gang are just assholes in general. Dee in particular manages to entice several potential romantic partners before later driving them away with her awful personality. Although worth noting is that Olson much prefers playing the "ugly Dee" over a standard [[WomenAreWiser closer-to-Earth]] female character.

Added: 1208

Changed: 59

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Mac would fall back into base breaking after coming out however, with some fans disliking how he no longer acts like a wannabe badass and has now become an ExtremeDoormat, especially in terms of his relationship with Dennis, who he now has a barely hidden crush on, while he, and the rest of the Gang, constantly state how much they can’t stand him. "Mac Finds His Pride” is one if not the most divisive episode of the series due to portraying Mac's struggle with coming to terms with his sexuality and his father rejecting him in a serious light, which some view as jarring and unfitting for a show like Sunny. Some fans, however, argue that Mac's personality change has to due with him no longer having to overcompensate for his masculinity or crave approval from his father, and applaud "Mac Finds His Pride" for the fact it’s not played for laughs in a tear jerking yet moving and beautifully choreographed dance scene. Mac's character would get re-railed closer to his older self in Seasons 15 and 16, along with Dennis not acting completely repulsed by him, something many fans appreciated.



** "The Janitor Always Mops Twice", where the whole episode is shot and told like a black-and-white noir film



** In general, there's plenty contentious debate as to when or if the series has ever declined in quality or jumped the shark. Different groups of fans will claim a decline started in Season 6 (with the show's switch to HD cameras), Season 11 (where a majority of the episodes are heavily meta and/or callbacks to previous moments), Season 12 (where some felt the show had started to become ''too'' gimmicky, such as the musical episode), Season 13 (where Dennis spends half the season CommutingOnABus), and every season after 12. Other groups don't think the show has ever declined in quality and are happy to keep watching despite any possible differences in tone/editing/lighting/humor.

to:

** In general, there's plenty contentious debate as to when or if the series has ever declined in quality or jumped the shark. Different groups of fans will claim a decline started in Season 6 (with the show's switch to HD cameras), Season 11 (where a majority of the episodes are heavily meta and/or callbacks to previous moments), Season 12 (where some felt the show had started to become ''too'' gimmicky, such as the musical episode), Season 13 (where Dennis spends half the season CommutingOnABus), and every season after 12.12, with general complaints being a dip in writing and comedy. Other groups don't think the show has ever declined in quality and are happy to keep watching despite any possible differences in tone/editing/lighting/humor.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Britt Lower plays the female Air BNB lodger at Mac and Dennis's apartment in "The Gang Gets Romantic," three years before her breakout performance as Helly in ''Series/{{Severance}}''.

to:

** Britt Lower Creator/BrittLower plays the female Air BNB lodger at Mac and Dennis's apartment in "The Gang Gets Romantic," three years before her breakout performance as Helly in ''Series/{{Severance}}''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Annalisa Cochrane, who plays Yasmine on ''Series/CobraKai'', appeared one year earlier as the Birthday Girl that gets a faceful of her dad's crotch in "[=PTSDee=]".

to:

** Annalisa Cochrane, Creator/AnnalisaCochrane, who plays Yasmine on ''Series/CobraKai'', appeared one year earlier as the Birthday Girl that gets a faceful of her dad's crotch in "[=PTSDee=]".
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** When he’s not being labelled a [[RonTheDeathEater uniquely evil sociopath who was born awful]], Dennis will get forgiven for anything due to being attractive and having a FreudianExcuse. MisaimedFandom is also greatly at play, with some fans actively praising him for his [[ManipulativeBastard manipulative]] [[TheChessmaster Chessmaster]] tendencies and use of the D.E.N.N.I.S. System. Even Glenn Howerton has to point out that while Dennis is deeply broken and insecure, he’s still being a monster, getting off to sexual conquests not able to escape his soundproofed room.

to:

** When he’s not being labelled a [[RonTheDeathEater uniquely evil sociopath who was born awful]], Dennis will get forgiven for anything due to being attractive and having a FreudianExcuse. MisaimedFandom is also greatly at play, with some fans actively praising him for his [[ManipulativeBastard manipulative]] [[TheChessmaster Chessmaster]] tendencies and use of the D.E.N.N.I.S. System. Even Glenn Howerton has had to point out that [[FreudianExcuseIsNoExcuse while Dennis is deeply broken and insecure, he’s still being a monster, monster]], getting off to sexual conquests not able to escape his soundproofed room.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Fat Mac falls into this. Rob [=McElhenny=] gained sixty pounds and grew his beard out for Season 7 to look as unattractive as possible to subvert sitcom actors getting better looking as shows go on, with The Gang constantly making fun of his weight gain and finding him/the show portraying him as repulsive. However, many fans have admitted they found Fat Mac [[BigBeautifulMan very attractive]], even moreso than when he went the opposite extreme in Season 13 and got ripped. Even Kaitlin Olson, who plays Dee and is married to [=McElhenny=], admitted to have been more into Fat Mac over Ripped Mac.

to:

** Fat Mac falls into this. Rob [=McElhenny=] [=McElhenney=] gained sixty pounds and grew his beard out for Season 7 to look as unattractive as possible to subvert sitcom actors getting better looking as shows go on, with The Gang constantly making fun of his weight gain and finding him/the show portraying him as repulsive. However, many fans have admitted they found Fat Mac [[BigBeautifulMan very attractive]], even moreso than when he went the opposite extreme in Season 13 and got ripped. Even Kaitlin Olson, who plays Dee and is married to [=McElhenny=], [=McElhenney=], admitted to have been more into Fat Mac over Ripped Mac.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Fat Mac falls into this. Rob McElhenny gained sixty pounds and grew his beard out for Season 7 to look as unattractive as possible to subvert sitcom actors getting better looking as shows go on, with The Gang constantly making fun of his weight gain and finding him/the show portraying him as repulsive. However, many fans have admitted they found Fat Mac [[BigBeautifulMan very attractive]], even moreso than when he went the opposite extreme in Season 13 and got ripped. Even Kaitlin Olson, who plays Dee and is married to McElhenny, admitteded to have been more into Fat Mac over Ripped Mac.

to:

** Fat Mac falls into this. Rob McElhenny [=McElhenny=] gained sixty pounds and grew his beard out for Season 7 to look as unattractive as possible to subvert sitcom actors getting better looking as shows go on, with The Gang constantly making fun of his weight gain and finding him/the show portraying him as repulsive. However, many fans have admitted they found Fat Mac [[BigBeautifulMan very attractive]], even moreso than when he went the opposite extreme in Season 13 and got ripped. Even Kaitlin Olson, who plays Dee and is married to McElhenny, admitteded [=McElhenny=], admitted to have been more into Fat Mac over Ripped Mac.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
I’ve seen enough fans thirst over Fat Mac that I felt I needed to add this

Added DiffLines:

** Fat Mac falls into this. Rob McElhenny gained sixty pounds and grew his beard out for Season 7 to look as unattractive as possible to subvert sitcom actors getting better looking as shows go on, with The Gang constantly making fun of his weight gain and finding him/the show portraying him as repulsive. However, many fans have admitted they found Fat Mac [[BigBeautifulMan very attractive]], even moreso than when he went the opposite extreme in Season 13 and got ripped. Even Kaitlin Olson, who plays Dee and is married to McElhenny, admitteded to have been more into Fat Mac over Ripped Mac.

Top