History YMMV / HarryPotterAndTheOrderOfThePhoenix

%%Umbridge is a Hate Sink not a Scrappy

--->"What did he do to you, Diddy? Was it - was it you-know-what, darling? Did he use - his ''thing?''"

** Because of how little characterization she had, Marietta Edgecombe is subjected to this. Was Cho telling the truth that [[spoiler: she only ratted out the DA because she didn't want her mother to lose her job]], or was Cho lying in order to cover her ass? Or, like [[spoiler:Cho in the movie, was she finally forced to crack under the effects of Veritaserum]]? (Probably not, since Snape mentioned that Umbridge used his last stash on [[spoiler:Potter and not Edgecombe]].) More to the point, why did she wait for ''months'' to do it, given as Umbridge put it, she willingly came to her office and started talking? If anything, the best time to rat anyone out would have been after the first meeting when Cho hexed her by accident. By waiting so long, Marietta made herself an accomplice and subject to more punishment if Umbridge was that sadistic. Likewise, was she actually Cho's friend? Harry is quick to note that Marietta was happy to throw Cho under the bus to save her own skin, which was a {{Jerkass}} thing to do. She could have warned Cho not to go to the meeting that night or given her some sort of message. Cho says that Marietta didn't mean it and wasn't thinking straight because of the pressure from her mother. The reader doesn't know who is right.

* CaptainObviousReveal: If you can believe it, [[SadistTeacher Umbridge]] [[spoiler: being responsible for the Dementor incident]] at the start of the book was actually meant to be a big reveal.

** Dumbledore goes for TakingTheHeat during the confrontation about the DA group, saying it was his idea. He then refuses to let Fudge arrest him, saying he's not coming quietly and breaking out of Azkaban would be a pain. When Fudge refuses to get the memo, Dumbledore hexes him and the other Aurors as well as Umbridge, with Minerva shielding Harry and Marrieta from the blasts. He apologizes for hexing Kingsley to keep the man's cover and tells Minerva that Fudge will regret it.

** Some found Harry's meltdown in Dumbledore's office after [[spoiler: Sirius died]] to be this. It looked less like he was venting his anger and more like one of Dudley's temper tantrums in the first book. The earlier rant in Grimmauld Place is like this too, with most of Harry's dialogue in block capitals -- and some fans have jokingly nicknamed it 'Caps Lock Harry'.

** Similarly, Snape being portrayed in the same chapter as both a loner and a victim during his Hogwarts years is usually how fans tend to portray him. Despite multiple characters mentioning that he had some friends [[spoiler: and not just Lily Evans]] and was highly skilled in magic even then (in fact, it's obvious that the only reason he's alone in this scene is so he can study in peace), fans more often than not ignore this in favor of a friendless defensive Snape.

** Sirius, an incredibly talented wizard who is also an animagus, and was noted by many people to be very intelligent gets reduced to being stuck in the house for almost an entire year, because he is a wanted criminal (nevermind that he lived two years on the lam, partly right under the ministry’s nose and broke into Hogwarts successfully with even Dumbledore not knowing how he did it, and now he even would have had support from members of the ministry on his side), with even Harry telling Sirius to not leave the house anymore because of a remark from Draco that leads him to believe that Lucius knows about his disguise (as if Lucius Malfoy would have had nothing better to do than tailing every dog in the UK on the off chance it might be Sirius). He essentially left being imprisoned in a house he hates, doesn’t get to do anything of value, gets crap from everyone for his circumstances (which really aren’t his fault) and then only shows up [[spoiler: to be killed off]]. One really gets the feeling that J.K. Rowling didn’t know what to do with him anymore.

* CaptainObviousReveal: If you can believe it, [[ObviouslyEvil Umbridge]] [[spoiler: being responsible for the Dementor incident]] at the start of the book was actually meant to be a big reveal.

* SeinfeldIsUnfunny: When the book first came out, it was truly shocking when Lupin and Moody showed up as part of the vanguard to escort Harry from the Dursleys’, since characters introduced after the first book rarely showed up again before this point, and the Defence Against the Dark Arts teachers in particular were all [[PutOnABus written out of the story]] and [[OneShotCharacter not mentioned again]]. So these characters who were seemingly thought to be oneshots actually appearing again was a sign that the books were stepping up their gear and no longer episodic. Of course, now that the series is over and done with and new readers don’t have to endure the [[SequelGap Three-Year Summer]] it can be very hard to understand this, and even older readers often forget that it takes this long for many cross-book {{Chekhovs Gun}}s to start firing.

* AbandonShipping:
** Harry/Cho was swiftly sunk in this book, along with nearly all of its supporters. Since the book's release, the ship's appearance in fanfiction has mostly been as either a novelty pairing or for porn fics.
%%** Many people realized that the scene with Harry and Ginny eating chocolate in the library (in the book) was a torpedo heading directly for the Harry/Hermione ship.

** Many people realized that the scene with Harry and Ginny eating chocolate in the library (in the book) was a torpedo heading directly for the Harry/Hermione ship.

** Particularly, overlapping with the trope below, it would have been fantastic to have him and Remus interact with Fred and George, the next generation of Hogwarts pranksters who are directly compared to the Marauders by [=McGonagall=] and Hagrid. As it happens, though, as far as we know they never even learn that they've been spending time with two of their idols, Moony and Padfoot.

** Cho for [[spoiler:calling Hermione out on disfiguring her only friend]] and pointing out that she should have told the members of the DA that the sign-up sheet was jinxed.

* StrawmanHasAPoint: The Ministry's claim that they need to interfere in Hogwarts in order to fix various problems with the way the school is run. They're doing it more for personal gain and paranoia about Dumbledore, but some argue that if a real school was run like Hogwarts (for example, letting a teacher bring dangerous animals to class), it probably would have been shut down.

** Harry, and many fans, complain about Dumbledore keeping sensitive information out of his hands. Not only has compartmentalization of information been standard procedure for ''every resistance in history'', Harry has a psychic link with Voldemort which he doesn't practice blocking, meaning that anything Harry knows, Voldemort potentially does as well.
** Thanks in no small part to Ginny's bright idea to name their secret battle-oriented group "Dumbledore's Army", despite knowing full well that the Ministry is paranoid Dumbledore is plotting to usurp them, Umbridge ends up making a good case for Dumbledore's Army being a precursor to exactly that. Sure, she's ''wrong'', but our heroes' poor judgement made her argument a valid one.

** Harry tells Sirius that Umbridge is no different than a Death Eater with some of her tactics. Guess who she ends up siding with two books later?
** Fred and George shoving the unpleasant Slytherin Montague into a Vanishing Cabinet is funny at the time, but less so after ''Half-Blood Prince'', where we learn that this incident alerted Malfoy to the Cabinet's abilities, so he spent the year fixing it in order to [[spoiler:let Death Eaters into Hogwarts, including Fenrir Greyback, who mauls Fred' and George's brother Bill. It also leads directly to Dumbledore's death.]]
** After the death of [[spoiler:Sirius]], Dumbledore tells Harry, "I know how you're feeling". In ''Deathly Hallows'', we find out that he has also suffered the loss of family members largely through his own fault.
** Seeing Cho get shunned by everyone [[spoiler: after she is forced to out the DA]] is even more uncomfortable when Katie Leung revealed that she suffered so much jealous fan girl hate for getting to kiss Daniel Radcliffe that she quit acting for a few years.

** Likewise the fact that a lot of the book is about lies created by the media to discredit people - Katie Leung was also the victim of photoshopped nude photos of her.
** Evanna Lynch also plays Luna's oddball nature and quirkiness for much darker drama in the Irish film ''Film/MyNameIsEmily''.
** The portrayal of Hogwarts under Umbridge's thumb is pretty much hits home to anyone who is pursuing higher education, stating that pretty much everything about it is TruthInTelevision for them. And then there is the jab at standardised testing with the portrayal of O.W.L.S...
** Harry's mental health problems were dismissed as {{Wangst}} at the time by a good portion of readers but, as time has gone on and mental health (especially towards men) became a hot talking point in the 2010s - the portrayal of his grief and PTSD (additionally the years of abuse in his childhood catching up with him) is quite resonant. It shows that mental health problems aren't pretty or easy and Harry's friends manage to support him while also calling him on when his behavior is crossing a line.
*** Cho's mental health problems likewise show the other side of the coin - that not everyone is equipped to deal with a grieving friend and that pursuing a relationship when in such a state is probably not a good idea. A good amount of conflict between Harry and Cho comes from misunderstandings that are exacerbated by the vulnerable state of mind they're both in. Harry notes that the two weren't compatible and hopes that her next boyfriend is better at being there for her.
** Fudge’s refusal to admit Voldemort is back is inspired by the world powers of the 1930s who appeased Hitler until it was too late. However, in a more modern context he makes a pretty good equivalent to the type of leaders the democratic backslide of the 2010s produced. He’s reminiscent of a certain brand of right wing populists who sprung up in the second half of the decade and refuse to take appropriate action against the incredibly pressing issues of the time, such as climate change and the COVID-19 pandemic.
* HilariousInHindsight:
** [[Creator/GaryOldman Sirius Black]] punching [[Creator/JasonIsaacs Lucius Malfoy]] become even more awesome when you realise that it is [[Film/TheDarkKnightTrilogy Commissioner Gordon]] punching [[WesternAnimation/BatmanUnderTheRedHood Ra's Al Ghul]].
** Zacharias Smith's "I don't think Expelliarmus is exactly going to help us against You-Know-Who, do you?", given that this spell [[spoiler:is what finally brings Voldemort down.]]
** Harry says sarcastically to Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle: "I'm terrified now. I suppose Lord Voldemort's just a warm-up act compared to you three?" In ''Deathly Hallows'', those three are a warm-up act before the final confrontation with Voldy.
** Regarding the Ordinary Wizardy Levels tests, there's one concerning the grades. The lowest grade possible is "Troll", presumably meaning that the student has the aptitude level of a [[OurTrollsAreDifferent regular in-universe troll]]. Time marched on and the concept of the Internet {{troll}} arose. This gives the grade a wholly different but still perfectly applicable explanation in that a student reaching that grade has got to be doing it on purpose to get a laugh at the examiners' expense, i.e. ''trolling'' them.
** Ginny's patronus, which wasn't revealed in the books yet, is shown to be a horse. In the next book, Ginny becomes Harry's love interest. Daniel Radcliffe would later star in ''{{Theatre/Equus}}'' -- as a stable boy who has a fetish for horses.
** In the film, when the Order show Harry a newspaper showing the Ministry slandering him and Dumbledore, the quotation of Fudge on the headline is [[spoiler: ''[[Literature/HarryPotterAndTheDeathlyHallows All is well]]'']]. Possibly intentional on the part of Creator/JKRowling, who had written the epilogue well in advance.
** Also in the film, Umbridge's strict order being toppled by Fred and George's antics plays out very similar to the school scene in ''Music/TheWall''.
** Harry invoking EveryoneHasStandards on ''The Quibbler'' accusing Fudge of [[Theatre/SweeneyToddTheDemonBarberOfFleetStreet having goblins cooked into pies]] becomes way funnier with the casting of Imelda Staunton (Umbridge) as Mrs. Lovett. What's more is that Helena Bonham Carter played Mrs Lovett in the film version. Also serves as a StealthPun: there's a TV dinner line in England that is called ''Little Goblin Pies.''
** Dumbledore actually resorts to violence when Umbridge physically shakes Marietta down during her interrogation, and warns her to never mistreat his students like that ever again. Then the ''Goblet of Fire'' movie came out two years after this book was published, featuring the legendary [[MemeticMutation "Dumbledore asked calmly"]] scene in which movie!Dumbledore does the exact same thing his book counterpart reprimanded Umbridge for.

* AuthorsSavingThrow:
** In the book, the scene where the Ministry of Magic's entire stock of Time Turners is accidentally destroyed during the final battle was included to address the potential PlotHole of characters not thinking to use TimeTravel to solve their problems in later books.
** In the film adaptation, the DA sign-up sheet Jinx, which was a [[NeverLiveItDown controversial moment for Hermione's character]], was removed, although some felt it should have been there since they either didn't see anything wrong with it and felt it emphasized Hermione's personal conviction and commitment to opposing Voldemort rather than doing so because Harry is her friend.
** Fans had taken issue with the characterization of Ron in the previous four films -- giving many of his better lines to Hermione and turning him into more of a bumbling sidekick. This film shows him publicly defending Harry in the common room, staying up to watch over Harry in his sleep and getting other little moments throughout the films (he's shown conjuring a Patronus, whereas in the book he wasn't able to).
** In response to using WomenAreWiser between Hermione and Ron, two little moments in the latter part of the film subvert it. When Umbridge prepares to use the Cruciatus curse on Harry, Ron tries to fight off his captor. He also tries to do the same when they're held by the Death Eaters in the Ministry, whereas Hermione just cries in pain.

* IdiotPlot: Has [[IdiotPlot/HarryPotterAndTheOrderOfThePhoenix its own page]].

** In the film, Snape says this during Harry's first Occlumency lesson:
--->"I will attempt to penetrate, you will attempt to resist. Prepare yourself!"

** A smaller example, but in the film there’s a blonde haired Slytherin girl who briefly makes an appearance during the Twins’ firework scene. Despite being an extra with no name, dialogue or even being listed in the credits(she’s played by Chloe Rich), she has gained somewhat of a fan following. She was so popular, she became the inspiration for the {{Fanon}} design for OCStandIn Daphne Greengrass.

** In response to using PositiveDiscrimination between Hermione and Ron, two little moments in the latter part of the film subvert it. When Umbridge prepares to use the Cruciatus curse on Harry, Ron tries to fight off his captor. He also tries to do the same when they're held by the Death Eaters in the Ministry, whereas Hermione just cries in pain.

* LoveToHate: Dolores Umbridge, UpToEleven. She's such a loathsome and delightfully evil villain (and a terrible teacher) for whom the reader can revel in every time she gets her comeuppance. Imelda Staunton's performance in the film increases this; where she has a sweet, grandmotherly appearance that heavily contrasts with her sadistic personality.

* MoralEventHorizon: Dolores Jane Umbridge has long since passed over it. She starts by cheerfully calling Harry a liar, forcing him to cut into his own flesh and do lines with his own blood, tries to sabotage Gryffindor's chances of winning the Quidditch Cup by removing three of their best players, cruelly mocks Hagrid's teaching, gleefully tries to sack Professor Trelawney (and thoroughly enjoys her despondency), takes over from Dumbledore, tries to arrest Hagrid for no reason, nearly kills [=McGonagall=] in a sneak attack, and finally tries to used the Cruciatus Curse on Harry. Oh, and it turns out she was the one who [[spoiler:set Dementors on Harry and Dudley in the beginning]]. So, take your pick. Oh, and guess what? She gets ''[[UpToEleven worse]]'' in ''Deathly Hallows''. In the movie, there's even a scene that shows that she forces ''first years'' to use the [[FanNickname Blood Quill]].

* UnfortunateImplications: Umbridge's defeat. [[https://www.cracked.com/article_19397_the-5-most-depraved-sex-scenes-implied-by-harry-potter.html A few people have noted]] that it plays out like Umbridge was raped, with how the Centaurs [[NothingIsScarier did something to her that was so traumatizing]], that she blocked it from memory and has a PTSD attack when the students make clopping noises to mock her. Further making things disturbing was how in Greek Mythology, centaurs were known rapists by nature. If that wasn't Rowling's intention, then she didn't exactly think this through, and if it were, then that's a big "yikes."

** The number of scenes that the film adaptation cut from the book, more than any of the other books in the series except for perhaps ''Goblet''. Some people think this bastardizes the source material. However, some were actually okay with it and felt that this helped tighten up the story and improved the pacing, since one of the criticisms about the book was that it had a lot of subplots that could have been left on the cutting room floor.

** People should take the threat of vicious leader coming back from the dead more seriously. Many fans treat Voldemort as a straightforward ClimateChangeAllegory, but the fear of a person like Voldemort threatening to wage war on a peaceful world is a very genuine concern.

* AccidentalAesop: Know when your trauma makes it extremely difficult to have a relationship with another shellshocked person. Harry and Cho are still mourning Cedric, with Harry feeling guilty that Cedric died because of him -- it was his idea to take the Triwizard trophy together. They end up incompatible because Cho keeps wanting to bring up Cedric's death, and Harry doesn't want to face reminders of it everywhere he goes.

* LoveToHate: To some, Umbridge is a delightfully evil villain for whom the reader can revel in every time she gets her comeuppance. Imelda Staunton's performance in the film increases this; where she has a sweet, grandmotherly appearance that heavily contrasts with her sadistic personality.

** Tiny one but Minerva actually goes MamaBear during this scene and says she'll stand by Dumbledore while protecting Harry at the same time. Dumbledore has to tell her to stand down because Hogwarts will need her. Madam Pomfrey says later that no Ministry official would dare take on Minerva in a fair fight, so she would have had the Aurors terrified.
** Harry calling out Cho for defending Marietta for her actions. He points out that "a lovely person who made a mistake" wouldn't sell out their best friend. It's one thing if Marietta sold out everyone else, but another that she ratted out Cho. Anyone who has had a FalseFriend in life can relate.
** For some readers, Marietta still having those pustule marks for ratting out Cho and the rest of the DA, since Kingsley makes sure she remembers ''that'' and not the past seven months. Harry at least is grimly satisfied that no one in Ravenclaw House -- or any of the other Houses-- will forget that she was TheStoolPigeon.