History YMMV / HarryPotterAndTheOrderOfThePhoenix

19th Sep '17 10:49:11 AM Malady
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** [[Creator/GaryOldman Sirius Black]] punching [[Creator/JasonIsaacs Lucius Malfoy]] become even more awesome when you realise that it is [[Film/TheDarkKnightTrilogy Commissioner Gordon]] punching [[Main/BatmanUnderTheRedHood Ra's Al Ghul]].
** Zacharias Smith's "I don't think Expelliarmus is exactly going to help us against You-Know-Who, do you?", given that this spell [[spoiler: is what finally brings Voldemort down.]]

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** [[Creator/GaryOldman Sirius Black]] punching [[Creator/JasonIsaacs Lucius Malfoy]] become even more awesome when you realise that it is [[Film/TheDarkKnightTrilogy Commissioner Gordon]] punching [[Main/BatmanUnderTheRedHood [[WesternAnimation/BatmanUnderTheRedHood Ra's Al Ghul]].
** Zacharias Smith's "I don't think Expelliarmus is exactly going to help us against You-Know-Who, do you?", given that this spell [[spoiler: is [[spoiler:is what finally brings Voldemort down.]]



** Cho for [[spoiler: calling Hermione out on disfiguring her only friend]] and pointing out that she should have told the members of the DA that the sign-up sheet was jinxed.

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** Cho for [[spoiler: calling [[spoiler:calling Hermione out on disfiguring her only friend]] and pointing out that she should have told the members of the DA that the sign-up sheet was jinxed.
29th Aug '17 9:49:59 AM NhazUl
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Added DiffLines:

** Then in the possession scene, Voldemort makes some weird faces in front of what looks to be fast-moving grey clouds, like he's in some 2000s music video. We also see him as Harry's mirror image, wearing Harry's hoodie and all.
24th Aug '17 6:45:19 AM StardustSoldier
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* ContestedSequel: Opinions vary from 'interesting, dark and edgy plot,' to 'overly padded and [[{{Wangst}} melodramatic]].' The interesting elements in the book (Sirius' backstory as a WhiteSheep, the Marauders getting a CerebusRetcon, the Department of Mysteries, the backstory of the Order, Occlumency, Luna Lovegood, the DA) are among the best in the series but most lament that it amounted to NoodleIncident in the end, with very little of it carrying over into the next book, which makes it feel superfluous on the whole.

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* ContestedSequel: Opinions vary from 'interesting, dark and edgy plot,' to 'overly padded and [[{{Wangst}} melodramatic]].' The interesting elements in the book (Sirius' backstory as a WhiteSheep, the Marauders getting a CerebusRetcon, the Department of Mysteries, the backstory of the Order, Occlumency, Luna Lovegood, the DA) are among the best in the series series, but most many lament that it amounted to NoodleIncident in the end, with very how little of it carrying carried over into the next book, which makes making it feel superfluous on the whole.
6th Aug '17 10:37:01 AM JulianLapostat
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** The novel plays Harry's feeling that AdultsAreUseless very straight with Dumbledore at the end admitting that he shouldn't have kept secrets from him all the time. The thing is even leaving aside Voldemort's scar-hotline, Harry is highly hot-tempered, doesn't show his call, repeatedly ignores warnings from people he respects (such as [=McGonagall=] who politely tries to warn him about Umbridge) and then openly gets goaded in front of an entire school to punch an opponent on the Quidditch pitch. Anyone with Harry's form of temperament in real-life would be considered to have a poor personality for any team or organization, leave alone an underground anti-government group.

to:

** The novel plays Harry's feeling that AdultsAreUseless very straight with Dumbledore at the end admitting that he shouldn't have kept secrets from him all the time. The thing is even leaving aside Voldemort's scar-hotline, Harry is highly hot-tempered, doesn't show any control over his call, emotions, repeatedly ignores warnings from people he respects (such as [=McGonagall=] who politely tries to warn him about Umbridge) and then openly gets goaded in front of an entire school to punch an opponent on the Quidditch pitch. Anyone with Harry's form of temperament in real-life would be considered to have a poor personality for any team or organization, leave alone an underground anti-government group.
6th Aug '17 10:36:24 AM JulianLapostat
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Added DiffLines:

** The novel plays Harry's feeling that AdultsAreUseless very straight with Dumbledore at the end admitting that he shouldn't have kept secrets from him all the time. The thing is even leaving aside Voldemort's scar-hotline, Harry is highly hot-tempered, doesn't show his call, repeatedly ignores warnings from people he respects (such as [=McGonagall=] who politely tries to warn him about Umbridge) and then openly gets goaded in front of an entire school to punch an opponent on the Quidditch pitch. Anyone with Harry's form of temperament in real-life would be considered to have a poor personality for any team or organization, leave alone an underground anti-government group.
6th Aug '17 10:28:14 AM JulianLapostat
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** Harry's angst after [[spoiler:Cedric]]'s death and being left out of the fight against Voldemort by the Order (because the kid who saved their asses four times already [[SarcasmMode can't possibly be useful]]), while [[JustifiedTrope justified]], was still an annoyance to many readers. It's likely that Harry has PTSD in this book. He watched a classmate die, was tortured, and forced to fight an older wizard with over 40 years and a lot of power on him. His angst is perfectly reasonable, but according to some doesn't make it any less obnoxious.

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** Harry's angst after [[spoiler:Cedric]]'s death and being left out of the fight against Voldemort by the Order (because the kid who saved their asses four times already [[SarcasmMode can't possibly be useful]]), while [[JustifiedTrope justified]], was still an annoyance to many readers. It's likely that Harry has PTSD in this book. He watched a classmate die, was tortured, and forced to fight an older wizard with over 40 years and a lot of power on him. His angst is perfectly reasonable, but according to some doesn't make it any less obnoxious.obnoxious, mostly because he takes his anger out on his friends, acting paranoid about them secretly trying to gloat about how ignorant he is, fails to control his temper throughout an entire year, despite countless insistence by everyone around him that he do so.



** In the film adaptation, the DA sign-up sheet Jinx, which was a [[NeverLiveItDown controversial moment for Hermione's character]], was removed.

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** In the film adaptation, the DA sign-up sheet Jinx, which was a [[NeverLiveItDown controversial moment for Hermione's character]], was removed.removed, although some felt it should have been there since they either didn't see anything wrong with it and felt it emphasized Hermione's personal conviction and commitment to opposing Voldemort rather than doing so because Harry is her friend.



* ContestedSequel: Opinions vary from 'interesting, dark and edgy plot,' to 'overly padded and [[{{Wangst}} melodramatic]].'
* DesignatedVillain: While Sirius' treatment of Kreacher is painted in a poor light, it should be noted that while he was mostly just grumpy and uncaring towards him and never abused his authority or fired the house elf, Kreacher was the antagonist in their relationship, constantly and unceasingly insulting him and his friends, including calling Hermione a mudblood, and plots his murder at the first opportunity. It's little wonder Sirius doesn't treat him with love and respect. Part of the problem is a House Elf's BlueAndOrangeMorality - only loyal to those who are kind to them. Sirius hated his house and his family, and that included Kreacher.

to:

* ContestedSequel: Opinions vary from 'interesting, dark and edgy plot,' to 'overly padded and [[{{Wangst}} melodramatic]].'
' The interesting elements in the book (Sirius' backstory as a WhiteSheep, the Marauders getting a CerebusRetcon, the Department of Mysteries, the backstory of the Order, Occlumency, Luna Lovegood, the DA) are among the best in the series but most lament that it amounted to NoodleIncident in the end, with very little of it carrying over into the next book, which makes it feel superfluous on the whole.
* DesignatedVillain: While Sirius' treatment of Kreacher is painted in a poor light, it should be noted that while he was mostly just grumpy and uncaring towards him and never abused his authority or fired the house elf, Kreacher was the antagonist antago nist in their relationship, constantly and unceasingly insulting him and his friends, including calling Hermione a mudblood, and plots his murder at the first opportunity. It's little wonder Sirius doesn't treat him with love and respect. Part of the problem is a House Elf's BlueAndOrangeMorality - -- only loyal to those who are kind to them. Sirius hated his house and his family, and that included Kreacher.
6th Aug '17 10:13:46 AM JulianLapostat
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** The start of Book 5 introduced the idea and possibility that Harry could be expelled by the Ministry on flimsy charges and instead spend time at Grimmauld Place with Sirius and hang out with the Order. Many fans felt that this would have made a much more interesting plot, and it would have been cool for Harry to spend more time with Sirius, [[spoiler:especially since Harry never does complete Hogwarts and drops out of Year Seven anyway and his wand snaps anyway, which likewise could have provided an avenue to seed the wandlore WorldBuilding earlier and far more organically. Furthermore, ''Film/FantasticBeastsAndWhereToFindThem'' the Prequel had a hero who was a Hogwarts reject who became a magic scholar proving that one can have a career after being expelled]]. Many felt that it would have compensated for the general frustration of the parts in Hogwarts under Umbridge's tyranny and provided a more interesting story [[spoiler:and would likewise have made Sirius' death at the end even more impactful. The fact that the author has Hermione mocking Sirius for secretly, possibly, expecting this, [[TheStreisandEffect only made some readers wish]] for this plot only more strongly]].
** The whole build-up in the middle part of the book, that Voldemort could be possessing Harry and the importance given in the plot to learning Occlumency is casually handwaved at the start of Book 6 with Dumbledore noting that Voldemort wouldn't try planting fake visions again. Many felt that this was a cheap resolution to a huge dramatic can of worms, made a whole newly introduced section of magic (Occlumency) a giant ShaggyDogStory that had no bearing on the series' end (since Harry doesn't resort or need to use it to defeat Voldemort) and likewise removed any tension, ambiguity and risk on the question of whether Harry could decipher true and false memories, where Book 7 once again has Harry stumbling around camping in the forest until Voldemort's visions show him where the PlotCoupon is and likewise updates the hero of his activities and movements.

to:

** The start of Book 5 introduced the idea and possibility that Harry could be expelled by the Ministry on flimsy charges and instead spend time at Grimmauld Place with Sirius and hang out with the Order. Many fans felt that this would have made a much more interesting plot, and it would have been cool for Harry to spend more time with Sirius, [[spoiler:especially since Harry never does complete Hogwarts and drops out of Year Seven anyway and his wand snaps anyway, which likewise could have provided an avenue to seed the wandlore WorldBuilding earlier and far more organically. Furthermore, ''Film/FantasticBeastsAndWhereToFindThem'' the Prequel had a hero who was a Hogwarts reject who became a magic scholar proving that one can have a career after being expelled]]. Many felt that it would have compensated for the general frustration of the parts in Hogwarts under Umbridge's tyranny and provided a more interesting story [[spoiler:and would likewise have made Sirius' death at the end even more impactful. The fact that the author has Hermione mocking Sirius for secretly, possibly, expecting this, [[TheStreisandEffect [[StreisandEffect only made some readers wish]] for this plot only more strongly]].
** The whole build-up in the middle part of the book, that Voldemort could be possessing Harry and the importance given in the plot to learning Occlumency is casually handwaved at the start of Book 6 with Dumbledore noting that Voldemort wouldn't try planting fake visions again. Many felt that this was a cheap resolution to a huge dramatic can of worms, made a whole newly introduced section of magic (Occlumency) a giant ShaggyDogStory that had no bearing on the series' end (since Harry doesn't resort or need to use it to defeat Voldemort) and likewise removed any tension, ambiguity ambiguity, and risk on the question of whether Harry could decipher true and false memories, where Book 7 once again has Harry stumbling around camping in the forest until Voldemort's visions show him where the PlotCoupon is and likewise updates the hero of his activities and movements.movements which allows the hero to keep his AdvantageBall rather than work for his victory.
6th Aug '17 9:59:44 AM JulianLapostat
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** The start of Book 5 introduced the idea and possibility that Harry could be expelled by the Ministry on flimsy charges and instead spend time at Grimmauld Place with Sirius and hang out with the Order. Many fans felt that this would have made a much more interesting plot, and it would have been cool for Harry to spend more time with Sirius, [[spoiler:especially since Harry never does complete Hogwarts and drops out of Year Seven anyway and his wand snaps anyway, which likewise could have provided an avenue to seed the wandlore WorldBuilding earlier and far more organically]]. Many felt that it would have compensated for the general frustration of the parts in Hogwarts under Umbridge's tyranny and provided a more interesting story [[spoiler:and would likewise have made Sirius' death at the end even more impactful. The fact that the author has Hermione mocking Sirius for secretly, possibly, expecting this, only made some readers wish for this story only more strongly]].

to:

** The start of Book 5 introduced the idea and possibility that Harry could be expelled by the Ministry on flimsy charges and instead spend time at Grimmauld Place with Sirius and hang out with the Order. Many fans felt that this would have made a much more interesting plot, and it would have been cool for Harry to spend more time with Sirius, [[spoiler:especially since Harry never does complete Hogwarts and drops out of Year Seven anyway and his wand snaps anyway, which likewise could have provided an avenue to seed the wandlore WorldBuilding earlier and far more organically]].organically. Furthermore, ''Film/FantasticBeastsAndWhereToFindThem'' the Prequel had a hero who was a Hogwarts reject who became a magic scholar proving that one can have a career after being expelled]]. Many felt that it would have compensated for the general frustration of the parts in Hogwarts under Umbridge's tyranny and provided a more interesting story [[spoiler:and would likewise have made Sirius' death at the end even more impactful. The fact that the author has Hermione mocking Sirius for secretly, possibly, expecting this, [[TheStreisandEffect only made some readers wish wish]] for this story plot only more strongly]].
6th Aug '17 1:35:05 AM JulianLapostat
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** The whole build-up in the middle part of the book, that Voldemort could be possessing Harry and the importance given in the plot to learning Occlumency is casually handwaved at the start of Book 6 with Dumbledore noting that Voldemort wouldn't try planting fake visions again. Many felt that this was a cheap resolution to a huge dramatic can of worms, made a whole newly introduced section of magic (Occlumency) a giant ShaggyDogStory that had no bearing on the series' end (since Harry doesn't resort or need to use it to defeat Voldemort) and likewise removed any question of skill and tension on whether Harry could decipher true and false memories, where Book 7 once again has Harry stumbling around camping in the forest until Voldemort's visions show him where the PlotCoupon is and likewise updates the hero of his activities and movements.

to:

** The whole build-up in the middle part of the book, that Voldemort could be possessing Harry and the importance given in the plot to learning Occlumency is casually handwaved at the start of Book 6 with Dumbledore noting that Voldemort wouldn't try planting fake visions again. Many felt that this was a cheap resolution to a huge dramatic can of worms, made a whole newly introduced section of magic (Occlumency) a giant ShaggyDogStory that had no bearing on the series' end (since Harry doesn't resort or need to use it to defeat Voldemort) and likewise removed any tension, ambiguity and risk on the question of skill and tension on whether Harry could decipher true and false memories, where Book 7 once again has Harry stumbling around camping in the forest until Voldemort's visions show him where the PlotCoupon is and likewise updates the hero of his activities and movements.



* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: Harry's {{Jerkass}} behavior in this book is one of the reasons this entry in the series is so divisive.

to:

* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: Harry's {{Jerkass}} behavior in this book is one of the reasons this entry in the series is so divisive. He's genuinely suffering from trauma and needs some therapy but he spends most of his time lashing out at his friends in rage, acting paranoid and suspicious about them gloating or keeping him willfully ignorant (which given how they risked their lives for him in the previous books is ridiculous, absurd, [[UngratefulBastard and ungrateful]]), repeatedly failing to control his temper despite countless warnings from everyone around him (and so justifying why the adults don't want to share secrets with him) and more or less becoming even more of an IdiotHero than he was in First Year.
6th Aug '17 1:27:24 AM JulianLapostat
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** Despite being the titular group, very little of the book focuses on the Order or its backstory beyond NoodleIncident. The novel mostly focuses on Harry's EmoTeen phase and Sirius' backstory as the WhiteSheep of a Pureblood family. Many felt disappointed that the book, and later books, don't tell us more about how effective they were, what they actually do to help people and most importantly when and how [[spoiler:the Potters and Longbottoms thrice defied Voldemort]].

to:

** Despite being the titular group, very little of the book focuses on the Order or its backstory beyond tantalizing NoodleIncident. The novel mostly focuses on Harry's EmoTeen phase and Sirius' backstory as the WhiteSheep of a Pureblood family. Many felt disappointed that the book, and later books, don't tell us more about how effective they were, what they actually do to help people and most importantly when and how [[spoiler:the Potters and Longbottoms thrice defied Voldemort]].
** The start of Book 5 introduced the idea and possibility that Harry could be expelled by the Ministry on flimsy charges and instead spend time at Grimmauld Place with Sirius and hang out with the Order. Many fans felt that this would have made a much more interesting plot, and it would have been cool for Harry to spend more time with Sirius, [[spoiler:especially since Harry never does complete Hogwarts and drops out of Year Seven anyway and his wand snaps anyway, which likewise could have provided an avenue to seed the wandlore WorldBuilding earlier and far more organically]]. Many felt that it would have compensated for the general frustration of the parts in Hogwarts under Umbridge's tyranny and provided a more interesting story [[spoiler:and would likewise have made Sirius' death at the end even more impactful. The fact that the author has Hermione mocking Sirius for secretly, possibly, expecting this, only made some readers wish for this story only more strongly]].
** The whole build-up in the middle part of the book, that Voldemort could be possessing Harry and the importance given in the plot to learning Occlumency is casually handwaved at the start of Book 6 with Dumbledore noting that Voldemort wouldn't try planting fake visions again. Many felt that this was a cheap resolution to a huge dramatic can of worms, made a whole newly introduced section of magic (Occlumency) a giant ShaggyDogStory that had no bearing on the series' end (since Harry doesn't resort or need to use it to defeat Voldemort) and likewise removed any question of skill and tension on whether Harry could decipher true and false memories, where Book 7 once again has Harry stumbling around camping in the forest until Voldemort's visions show him where the PlotCoupon is and likewise updates the hero of his activities and movements.
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