History YMMV / DragonAgeII

6th Nov '17 7:31:11 AM Repo
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** Tallis. This boils down to how much one likes Creator/FeliciaDay and her involvement in MOTA, as well as how much one likes the Qunari. Many found her character fascinating and felt that Day gave a really compelling performance. Others were annoyed that she succeeds in her goals, irrespective of whether Hawke is anti-Qunari, feel her dialogue is filled with moments of [[CantArgueWithElves "Can't argue with Qunari!"]] (for example, a Mage!Hawke can't bring up Saarabas), and argue that MOTA feels like "''Dragon Age'' starring Felicia Day (with Hawke and Co. tagging along)." Thus they deemed her to be, at least, veering on MarySue status; the fact that the character was conceptualized by Felicia herself, rather than the Bioware writers, ''does not'' help matters, with many fans arguing that the entire character is essentially ascended fanfic for name recognition.

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** Tallis. This boils down to how much one likes Creator/FeliciaDay and her involvement in MOTA, as well as how much one likes the Qunari. Many found her character fascinating and felt that Day gave a really compelling performance. Others were annoyed that she succeeds in her goals, irrespective of whether Hawke is anti-Qunari, feel her dialogue is filled with moments of [[CantArgueWithElves "Can't argue with Qunari!"]] (for example, a Mage!Hawke can't bring up Saarabas), and argue that MOTA feels like "''Dragon Age'' starring Felicia Day (with Hawke and Co. tagging along)." Thus they deemed Needless to say, many players see her to be, at least, veering on MarySue status; as something of a MarySue; the fact that the character was conceptualized by Felicia herself, rather than the Bioware writers, ''does not'' help matters, with many fans arguing that the entire character is essentially ascended fanfic for name recognition.
26th Oct '17 4:55:45 PM LadyNorbert
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** It's possible, if uncommon, for party members' combat lines to glitch in such a way that they say the same thing, or the same two things, over and over like an endless broken record. No matter how much you love your companions, this ''will'' become obnoxious after a while.



** The Rock Wraith provides the most frustration for players.

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** The Rock Wraith provides the most a ''lot'' of frustration for players.



*** If you didn't pick the right options to get the single combat, the fight includes such notable things as ''two'' Saarebas mages and a veritable horde of lesser qunari to back up [[spoiler:the Arishok]].
** Corypheus of ''Legacy'' proves to be much tougher than either of the others. ''Legacy'' also has [[spoiler: the secret boss Malvernis, who switches between summoning dozens of archers, using high-damage blood magic, and eventually turning into a dragon.]]

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*** If you didn't pick the right options to get the single combat, the fight includes such notable things as ''two'' Saarebas mages and a veritable horde of lesser qunari Qunari to back up [[spoiler:the Arishok]].
** Corypheus of ''Legacy'' proves to be much tougher than either of the others. ''Legacy'' also has [[spoiler: the secret boss Malvernis, who switches between summoning dozens of skeletal archers, using high-damage blood magic, and eventually turning into a dragon.]]



** Might as well add the remaining party members into the Woobie category - Aveline's main source of Woobieness is that her husband dies in the prologue (with either her or Hawke dealing the killing blow), but she's also clearly scarred from the events in Ostagar, and in Act 3 has to deal with [[spoiler: Jeven trying to spread insubordination among her guardsmen]]. Then there's Sebastian, whose backstory is that his whole family was killed off by assassins ([[spoiler: sent by his family's friends, no less]]), and in the game's finale [[spoiler: his mother figure, Elthina, is blown up by Anders]]. Isabela's backstory reveals [[spoiler: that she was sold by her mother in exchange for a goat, and lived as her husband's property until Zevran killed him. Since then she's lived a pretty rough life as a pirate, and even notes when Merrill is feeling jealous of the 'excitement' that she shouldn't want Isabela's life, because she's a 'good person and deserves better'. If Isabela returns during the fight with the Qunari in Act 2, Hawke can also hand her over to the Arishok so that she can be taken back with them for punishment]]. Lastly there's Varric, who's had to put up with Bartrand's {{Jerkass}}ery for a ''long'' time, is [[spoiler: betrayed by him in the Deep Roads, and then either has to kill Bartrand or spend the rest of his days looking after him now that his brother's completely insane]].

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** Might as well add the remaining party members into the Woobie category - Aveline's main source of Woobieness is that her husband dies in the prologue (with either her or Hawke dealing the killing blow), but she's also clearly scarred from the events in Ostagar, and in Act 3 has to deal with [[spoiler: Jeven trying to spread insubordination among her guardsmen]]. Then there's Sebastian, whose backstory is that his whole family was killed off by assassins ([[spoiler: sent by his family's friends, no less]]), and in the game's finale [[spoiler: his mother figure, Elthina, is blown up by Anders]]. Isabela's backstory reveals [[spoiler: that she was sold by her mother in exchange for a goat, and lived as her husband's property until Zevran killed him. Since then she's lived a pretty rough life as a pirate, and even notes when Merrill is feeling jealous of the 'excitement' that she shouldn't want Isabela's life, because she's a 'good person and deserves better'. If Isabela returns during the fight with the Qunari in Act 2, Hawke can also hand her over to the Arishok so that she can be taken back with them for punishment]]. Lastly there's Varric, who's had to put up with Bartrand's {{Jerkass}}ery for a ''long'' time, is [[spoiler: betrayed by him in the Deep Roads, and then either has to kill Bartrand or spend the rest of his days looking after him now that his brother's completely insane]]. And he's the only one left in Kirkwall to explain what ''really'' happened.
24th Oct '17 4:43:42 PM Repo
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* VindicatedByHistory: To a very slight extent following the release of ''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition.'' Some of the people unhappy with DAI now praise this game's tighter story, which was clearly setting up some of the plot elements in the sequel.

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* VindicatedByHistory: To a very slight extent following Pretty significantly as time goes on (given the release InternetBackdraft on release), for a variety of reasons:
** The biggest one, by far, is Dragon Age 2's ambitious plot, particularly in light
of ''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition.'' Some While most people agree the execution isn't perfect, the fact that Inquisition could feel a bit like a ClicheStorm at points has generated a great deal of praise for how unique 2's is (shrinking the scale to a single city with a fairly morally grey and complex Mage vs. Templar issue). Having more interesting and complex antagonists in the form of [[spoiler: [[WellIntentionedExtremist Anders]]]], [[KnightTemplar Knight Commander Meredith]], [[HeadInTheSandManagement Grand Cleric Elthina]] or [[BlueAndOrangeMorality The Arishok]] especially helps.
*** Anders himself deserves a special mention. While widely considered TheScrappy for many on release, he's since become a [[BaseBreaker a far more divisive]] companion, with many fans praising how complex and developed he is as well as the interesting themes and dynamics that his story arc tie into. '''Especially''' in wake of Inquisition's dull and generic main antagonist. Many
of the people unhappy with DAI now praise this game's tighter story, which was clearly setting up some of the plot elements in the sequel.other more divisive companions (such as Fenris or Merrill) have been gaining more popularity as time passses too
20th Oct '17 11:53:32 PM LadyNorbert
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* FranchiseOriginalSin: Elf fans who weren't very happy about how BioWare handled the [[MightyWhitey "eluvian expert"]] in ''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition'' have retroactively looked back at how this game treated Merrill's quest to restore her eluvian and found that the seeds were sewn earlier than they noticed. Many have noted that in-universe Merrill is treated like a naive idiot by pretty much ''everyone'' for supposedly messing with powers too great for her to control despite it being ''her own culture'' ([[BrokenBase fans are still divided on that]]), whereas [[spoiler:Morrigan]] in the ''Witch Hunt'' DLC and ''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition'' is ''never'' questioned or disrespected by any characters for restoring her own eluvian [[spoiler:despite ([[MightyWhitey or because of]]) the fact that she's human]]. Narratively, many fans have also noted that this game depicting Hawke, a required human protagonist, as more credible in determining whether or not Merrill should or could even restore an artifact of her own culture only opened the door later for ''Inquisition'' to treat [[spoiler:Morrigan]] as a far greater expert on all elven lore over all other elves (even potentially to a Dalish Inquisitor and/or their ancient elven expert companion), and the game presenting her as ''the'' most suitable choice to [[spoiler:drink from the Well of Sorrows, a compilation of millennia of ancient elven memories, and inherit Mythal's godhood]] despite not being elven and having no personal connection to elven culture or people. The fact that ''Inquisition'' was written with a required human protagonist in mind, and [[spoiler:Morrigan]] is the default [[spoiler:drinker of the Well]] unless the player manually adjusts an elven protagonist to be one instead, just fans the flames.

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* FranchiseOriginalSin: Elf fans who weren't very happy about how BioWare handled the [[MightyWhitey "eluvian expert"]] in ''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition'' have retroactively looked back at how this game treated Merrill's quest to restore her eluvian and found that the seeds were sewn sown earlier than they noticed. Many have noted that in-universe Merrill is treated like a naive idiot by pretty much ''everyone'' for supposedly messing with powers too great for her to control control, despite it being ''her own culture'' ([[BrokenBase fans are still divided on that]]), whereas [[spoiler:Morrigan]] in the ''Witch Hunt'' DLC and ''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition'' is ''never'' questioned or disrespected by any characters for restoring her own eluvian [[spoiler:despite ([[MightyWhitey or because of]]) the fact that she's human]]. Narratively, many fans have also noted that this game depicting Hawke, a required human protagonist, as more credible in determining whether or not Merrill should or could even restore an artifact of her own culture only opened the door later for ''Inquisition'' to treat [[spoiler:Morrigan]] as a far greater expert on all elven lore over all other elves (even potentially to a Dalish Inquisitor and/or their ancient elven expert companion), and the game presenting her as ''the'' most suitable choice to [[spoiler:drink from the Well of Sorrows, a compilation of millennia of ancient elven memories, and inherit Mythal's godhood]] despite not being elven and having no personal connection to elven culture or people. The fact that ''Inquisition'' was written with a required human protagonist in mind, and [[spoiler:Morrigan]] is the default [[spoiler:drinker of the Well]] unless the player manually adjusts an elven protagonist to be one instead, just fans the flames.



** Using the maker's sigh potions basically resets your character's talents, attributes and specialties. Occasionally, drinking it will cause a glitch to happen, and it's possible to keep your specialties, meaning you can unlock a third one. This has been patched out.

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** Using the maker's sigh Maker's Sigh potions basically resets your character's talents, attributes and specialties. Occasionally, drinking it will would cause a glitch to happen, and it's possible to keep your specialties, meaning you can unlock a third one. This has since been patched out.



** As mentioned in DesignatedHero above, the game paints Gamlen as being completely in the wrong for ''everything'', yet he does make some valid points. Leandra acts like he's selling Hawke and Sibling into slavery when he suggests a year of indentured servitude in exchange for passage into the city, yet he's not wrong when he says the family fortune ''is'' gone (however it went), this ''is'' their only option, and also that the large influx of unskilled immigrant labor into the city would make jobs very limited, so "think of it as having a job waiting for you once you get in." Sure enough...[[note]]a year later most Blight refugees are toiling away in dead-end poverty ''at best'', whereas the connections and reputation that Hawke gains from a year running with the gang/mercenary company ensures that s/he leaves with better job offers (such as being offered an equal partnership in Varric and Bartrand's business venture) than most Kirkwall natives could dream.[[/note]] While Gamlen is wrong for having stolen and gambled his sister's inheritance away, he still makes a point that Leandra ''chose'' to leave the fortune behind years ago. Finally, the game treats Gamlen asking Leandra for rent as a very unreasonable request, yet by the time he asks she's been sitting in his house doing nothing (neither chores nor job-hunting) for ''over a year'', so it's perfectly reasonable for him to ask her to pitch in if she has no intention of moving out.

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** As mentioned in DesignatedHero above, the game paints Gamlen as being completely in the wrong for ''everything'', yet he does make some valid points. Leandra acts like he's selling Hawke and Sibling into slavery when he suggests a year of indentured servitude in exchange for passage into the city, city; yet he's not wrong when he says that the family fortune ''is'' gone (however it went), this ''is'' their only option, and also that the large influx of unskilled immigrant labor into the city would make jobs very limited, so "think of it as having a job waiting for you once you get in." Sure enough...[[note]]a year later most Blight refugees are toiling away in dead-end poverty ''at best'', whereas the connections and reputation that Hawke gains from a year running with the gang/mercenary company ensures that s/he leaves with better job offers (such as being offered an equal partnership in Varric and Bartrand's business venture) than most Kirkwall natives could dream.[[/note]] While Gamlen is wrong for having stolen and gambled his sister's inheritance away, he still makes a point that Leandra ''chose'' to leave the fortune behind years ago. Finally, the game treats Gamlen asking Leandra for rent as a very unreasonable request, yet by the time he asks she's been sitting in his house doing nothing (neither chores nor job-hunting) for ''over a year'', so it's perfectly reasonable for him to ask her to pitch in if she has no intention of moving out.



** Relatedly, this change severely limited the Warrior class as well. BowAndSwordInAccord warriors were one of the best builds in Awakening, but now the class doesn't even have access to archery abilities.

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** Relatedly, In a related vein, this change severely limited the Warrior class as well. BowAndSwordInAccord warriors were one of the best builds in Awakening, ''Awakening'', but now the class doesn't even have access to archery abilities.



* TrueArtIsAngsty: This game is a poster child for this mentality, and many felt the writing veered into overdone melodrama.

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* TrueArtIsAngsty: This game is a poster child for this mentality, and many felt feel that the writing veered into overdone melodrama.



** The quest "All That Remains" is supposed to make the Templar point of view seem more sympathetic, since it features a blood mage serial killer [[spoiler:who brutally murders Hawke's mother]]. But at the same time, it portrays the Templars as utterly incompetent -- only one of them is investigating the murders, and his concerns are dismissed by Meredith, who later has the gall to [[NeverMyFault brandish it as a trump card]] when Hawke speaks out against her.
** After Meredith invokes the [[KillEmAll Right of Annulment]], the player is clearly meant to see this as a horrible thing, as the Templars immediately start slaughtering the Mages who had no hand in the Chantry's destruction... but in the next moment the town gets absolutely ''swarmed'' by demons and abominations. There is even a scene where three Templars are ganging up on one mage who insists she is innocent, only to turn into an Abomination the very next second. Instead of portraying the Mages as victims, this has much more of the opposite effect.

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** The quest "All That Remains" is supposed to make the Templar point of view seem more sympathetic, since it features a blood mage serial killer [[spoiler:who brutally murders Hawke's mother]]. But at the same time, it portrays the Templars as utterly incompetent -- only one of them is ever bothered investigating the murders, and his concerns are dismissed by Meredith, who later has the gall to [[NeverMyFault brandish it as a trump card]] when Hawke speaks out against her.
** After Meredith invokes the [[KillEmAll Right of Annulment]], the player is clearly meant to see this as a horrible thing, as the Templars immediately start slaughtering the Mages mages who had no hand in the Chantry's destruction... but in the next moment the town gets absolutely ''swarmed'' by demons and abominations. There is even a scene where three Templars are ganging up on one mage who insists she is innocent, only to turn into an Abomination the very next second. Instead of portraying the Mages mages as victims, this has much more of the opposite effect.



** Bethany. [[spoiler: For one, she's an apostate, so her entire childhood was spent constantly on the lookout for Templars. Then, either she or her twin brother dies at the hands of an ogre. If she survives, and is taken to the Deep Roads, she's infected by the taint. Unless Anders is there, she dies. If he ''is'' there, then she undergoes the Joining. It's a harsh life and totally destroys any innocence she has left. But if you leave her with Leandra, she's discovered by Cullen and is forced into the Circle, because otherwise her family will suffer reprisals for harboring an apostate. Either way, you don't see her again until the endgame (unless you have the DLC and bring her along). It gets a little better if you're pro-Mage and she joins the Circle. You get to free her from her bondage to the Circle and she isn't guaranteed a miserable life and a miserable death before she hits fifty.]]

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** Bethany. [[spoiler: For one, she's an apostate, so her entire childhood was spent constantly on the lookout for Templars. Then, either she or her twin brother dies at the hands of an ogre. If she survives, and is taken to the Deep Roads, she's infected by the taint. Unless Anders is there, she dies. If he ''is'' there, then she undergoes the Joining. It's a harsh life and totally destroys any innocence she has left. But if you leave her with Leandra, she's discovered by Cullen and is forced into the Circle, because otherwise her family will suffer reprisals for harboring an apostate. Either way, you don't see never have her in your party again until the endgame (unless you have the DLC and bring her along). It gets a little better if you're pro-Mage and she joins the Circle. You Circle; you get to free her from her bondage to the Circle Circle, and she isn't guaranteed a miserable life and a miserable death before she hits fifty.]]



** The orphans under Evelina's care. First, they have to flee to Kirkwall's slums to eke out a living after their parents are killed in the Blight. Then they have to watch their surrogate mother be taken away by the Templars when she tries to appeal to the Circle for help. When she returns years later, she's become an insane abomination. Finally, they have to watch helplessly as Hawke and company slay her, leaving them alone to an uncertain future. And the only thing the player can do to help them at all is have Hawke give the older one a few coins.
** Might as well add the remaining party members into the Woobie category - Aveline's main source of Woobieness is that her husband dies in the prologue (with either her or Hawke dealing the killing blow), but she's also clearly scarred from the events in Ostagar, and in Act 3 has to deal with [[spoiler: Jeven trying to spread insubordination among her guardsmen]]. Then there's Sebastian, whose backstory is that his whole family was killed off by assassins ([[spoiler: sent by his family's friends, no less]]), and in the game's finale [[spoiler: his mother figure, Elthina, is blown up by Anders]]. Isabela's backstory reveals [[spoiler: that she was sold by her mother in exchange for a goat, and lived as her husband's property until Zevran killed him. Since then she's lived a pretty rough life as a pirate, and even notes when Merrill is feeling jealous of the 'excitement' that she shouldn't want Isabela's life, because she's a 'good person and deserves better'. If Izzy returns during the fight with the Qunari in Act 2, Hawke can also hand her over to the Arishok so that she can be taken back with them for punishment]]. Lastly there's Varric, who's had to put up with Bartrand's {{Jerkass}}ery for a ''long'' time, is [[spoiler: betrayed by him in the Deep Roads, and then either has to kill Bartrand or spend the rest of his days looking after him now that his brother's completely insane]].

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** The orphans under Evelina's care. First, they have to flee to Kirkwall's slums to eke out a living after their parents are killed in the Blight. Then they have to watch their surrogate mother be taken away by the Templars when she tries to appeal to the Circle for help. When she returns years later, she's become an insane abomination. Finally, they have to watch helplessly as Hawke and company slay her, leaving them alone to an uncertain future. And the only thing the player can do to help them at all is have Hawke give the older one a few coins.
** Might as well add
coins. [[note]][[HopeSpot Doing so leads to a better end for the remaining party members into the Woobie category - Aveline's main source of Woobieness is that her husband dies in the prologue (with either her or kids, though]]. Hawke dealing the killing blow), but she's also clearly scarred later receives a letter from Walter, the events in Ostagar, and in Act 3 has to deal with [[spoiler: Jeven trying to spread insubordination among her guardsmen]]. Then there's Sebastian, whose backstory is older boy, which states that his whole family was killed off by assassins ([[spoiler: sent by his family's friends, no less]]), and in the game's finale [[spoiler: his mother figure, Elthina, is blown up by Anders]]. Isabela's backstory reveals [[spoiler: that she was sold by her mother in exchange for a goat, and lived as her husband's property until Zevran killed him. Since then she's lived a pretty rough life as a pirate, and even notes when Merrill is feeling jealous of the 'excitement' that she shouldn't want Isabela's life, because she's a 'good person and deserves better'. If Izzy returns during the fight with the Qunari in Act 2, Hawke can also hand her over introduced him to the Arishok so Bodahn, who helped him get a good job, and that she can be taken back with them for punishment]]. Lastly there's Varric, who's had he's been finding people to put up with Bartrand's {{Jerkass}}ery for a ''long'' time, is [[spoiler: betrayed by him in adopt the Deep Roads, and then either has to kill Bartrand or spend the rest of his days looking after him now that his brother's completely insane]].younger orphans.[[/note]]


Added DiffLines:

** Might as well add the remaining party members into the Woobie category - Aveline's main source of Woobieness is that her husband dies in the prologue (with either her or Hawke dealing the killing blow), but she's also clearly scarred from the events in Ostagar, and in Act 3 has to deal with [[spoiler: Jeven trying to spread insubordination among her guardsmen]]. Then there's Sebastian, whose backstory is that his whole family was killed off by assassins ([[spoiler: sent by his family's friends, no less]]), and in the game's finale [[spoiler: his mother figure, Elthina, is blown up by Anders]]. Isabela's backstory reveals [[spoiler: that she was sold by her mother in exchange for a goat, and lived as her husband's property until Zevran killed him. Since then she's lived a pretty rough life as a pirate, and even notes when Merrill is feeling jealous of the 'excitement' that she shouldn't want Isabela's life, because she's a 'good person and deserves better'. If Isabela returns during the fight with the Qunari in Act 2, Hawke can also hand her over to the Arishok so that she can be taken back with them for punishment]]. Lastly there's Varric, who's had to put up with Bartrand's {{Jerkass}}ery for a ''long'' time, is [[spoiler: betrayed by him in the Deep Roads, and then either has to kill Bartrand or spend the rest of his days looking after him now that his brother's completely insane]].
18th Oct '17 9:27:29 PM LadyNorbert
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** Mother Petrice crosses it when she murders [[spoiler:Seamus Dumar]], frames Hawke for it, and tries to use the whole affair to spark a war with the Qunari. When told that her actions will lead to a massacre on both sides, she brushes off the excess of blood which is and will be on her hands as though it's meaningless.

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** Mother Petrice crosses it when she murders [[spoiler:Seamus [[spoiler:Saemus Dumar]], frames Hawke for it, and tries to use the whole affair to spark a war with the Qunari. When told that her actions will lead to a massacre on both sides, she brushes off the excess of blood which is and will be on her hands as though it's meaningless.









* ShipsThatPassInTheNight: Bethany/Alistair is quite popular for some reason. This is sort of strange considering what the reaction was to Alistair/Leliana being suggested in ''Darkspawn Chronicles.''

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* ShipsThatPassInTheNight: Bethany/Alistair is quite popular popular, for some reason. This is sort of strange considering what the reaction was to Alistair/Leliana being suggested in ''Darkspawn Chronicles.''



** This is also the case with the Friendship/Rivalry approval system. Many players complain that DAI used the old approval system whereas Dragon Age 2 provided a system in which a player could disagree with their companions and still gain benefits.

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** This is also the case with the Friendship/Rivalry approval system. Many players complain that DAI used reverted to the old approval system system, whereas Dragon Age 2 this game provided a system in which a player could disagree with their companions and still gain benefits.



** Also noticeable to tragic degree on Bethany if you take her to the Deep Roads. Makes you wonder why no one realized she was tainted sooner though. Oddly enough, the visual effects of the taint aren't present on Carver if he becomes infected.

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** Also noticeable to tragic degree on Bethany if you take her to the Deep Roads. Makes Roads; it makes you wonder why no one realized she was tainted sooner though. Oddly enough, the visual effects of the taint aren't present on Carver if he becomes infected.



** The eyes are just gorgeous, especially compared to the dull ones of ''Origins''

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** The eyes are just gorgeous, especially compared to the dull ones of ''Origins''''Origins.''



** In-universe, this is the main reason that Carver isn't overly popular in the party, as he comes off as rather whiny for reasons that are much more small-scale and even downright petty compared to the rest of the group and their problems. He mostly gets over it later in the game though.

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** In-universe, this is the main reason that Carver isn't overly popular in the party, as he comes off as rather whiny for reasons that are much more small-scale and even downright petty compared to the rest of the group and their problems. He mostly gets over it later in the game game, though.



** Carver. [[spoiler: The brother of a dead apostate sister has quite a chip on his shoulder having to protect his surviving apostate sibling, while proving that as the only warrior in the family that he isn't a burden. He's either forced into being a Warden and hates how he was always bailed out by his apostate sibling, or he joins the Templars and expresses how badly he wants to kill his only living connection left to prove something. Regardless of his choice, Carver just feels like he has no control over his own life.]]


Added DiffLines:

** Carver. [[spoiler: The brother of a dead apostate sister has quite a chip on his shoulder having to protect his surviving apostate sibling, while proving that as the only warrior in the family that he isn't a burden. He's either forced into being a Warden and hates how he was always bailed out by his apostate sibling, or he joins the Templars and expresses how badly he wants to kill his only living connection left to prove something.]] Regardless of his choice, Carver just feels like he has no control over his own life.
13th Oct '17 12:50:06 PM LadyNorbert
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13th Oct '17 12:50:05 PM LadyNorbert
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* FranchiseOriginalSin: Elf fans who weren't very happy about how BioWare handled the [[MightyWhitey "eluvian expert"]] in ''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition'' have retroactively looked back at how this game treated Merrill's quest to restore her eluvian and found that the seeds were sewn earlier than they noticed. Many have noted that in-universe Merrill is treated like a naive idiot by pretty much ''everyone'' for supposedly messing with powers too great for her to control despite it being ''her own culture'' ([[BrokenBase fans are still divided on that]]), whereas [[spoiler:Morrigan]] in the ''Witch Hunt'' DLC and ''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition'' is ''never'' questioned or disrespected by any characters for restoring her own eluvian [[spoiler:desipte ([[MightyWhitey or because]]) she's human]]. Narratively, many fans have also noted that this game depicting Hawke, a required human protagonist, as more credible in determining whether or not Merrill should or could even restore an artifact of her own culture only opened the door later for ''Inquisition'' to treat [[spoiler:Morrigan]] as a far greater expert on all elven lore over all other elves (even potentially to a Dalish Inquisitor and/or their ancient elven expert companion), and the game presenting her as ''the'' most suitable choice to [[spoiler:drink from the Well of Sorrows, a compilation of millennia of ancient elven memories, and inherit Mythal's godhood]] despite not being elven and having no personal connection to elven culture or people. The fact that ''Inquisition'' was written with a required human protagonist in mind, and [[spoiler:Morrigan]] is the default [[spoiler:drinker of the Well]] unless the player manually adjusts an elven protagonist to be one instead, just fans the flames.

to:

* FranchiseOriginalSin: Elf fans who weren't very happy about how BioWare handled the [[MightyWhitey "eluvian expert"]] in ''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition'' have retroactively looked back at how this game treated Merrill's quest to restore her eluvian and found that the seeds were sewn earlier than they noticed. Many have noted that in-universe Merrill is treated like a naive idiot by pretty much ''everyone'' for supposedly messing with powers too great for her to control despite it being ''her own culture'' ([[BrokenBase fans are still divided on that]]), whereas [[spoiler:Morrigan]] in the ''Witch Hunt'' DLC and ''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition'' is ''never'' questioned or disrespected by any characters for restoring her own eluvian [[spoiler:desipte [[spoiler:despite ([[MightyWhitey or because]]) because of]]) the fact that she's human]]. Narratively, many fans have also noted that this game depicting Hawke, a required human protagonist, as more credible in determining whether or not Merrill should or could even restore an artifact of her own culture only opened the door later for ''Inquisition'' to treat [[spoiler:Morrigan]] as a far greater expert on all elven lore over all other elves (even potentially to a Dalish Inquisitor and/or their ancient elven expert companion), and the game presenting her as ''the'' most suitable choice to [[spoiler:drink from the Well of Sorrows, a compilation of millennia of ancient elven memories, and inherit Mythal's godhood]] despite not being elven and having no personal connection to elven culture or people. The fact that ''Inquisition'' was written with a required human protagonist in mind, and [[spoiler:Morrigan]] is the default [[spoiler:drinker of the Well]] unless the player manually adjusts an elven protagonist to be one instead, just fans the flames.
11th Oct '17 8:53:04 PM LadyNorbert
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** Following the season 6 ''Series/GameOfThrones'' finale, fans of both franchises (of which there are many, due to the influence of ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'' on ''Franchise/DragonAge''), immediately picked up on the similarities between [[spoiler:the bombing of the Chantry in this game and Cersei's bombing of the Great Sept]]. Since both of the characters are blond-haired, the phrase "way to go Blondie" became [[http://quesoconmermelada.tumblr.com/post/146538566291/someone-had-to quite the relevant statement]] for the events of the show.

to:

** Following the season 6 ''Series/GameOfThrones'' finale, fans of both franchises (of which there are many, due to the influence of ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'' on ''Franchise/DragonAge''), ''Franchise/DragonAge'') immediately picked up on the similarities between [[spoiler:the bombing of the Chantry in this game and Cersei's bombing of the Great Sept]]. Since both of the characters are blond-haired, the phrase "way to go Blondie" became [[http://quesoconmermelada.tumblr.com/post/146538566291/someone-had-to quite the relevant statement]] for the events of the show.



** Bethany becomes this over the course of the story, but how far the game takes it depends on her fate. It's far less noticeable if she's forced to join the Circle, for example, but even then she's a little cold and sharp towards Hawke in later Acts. Warden Bethany, however is even more bitter and cold towards not just Hawke, but almost all the former party members. This is more noticeable during the DLC, in which she provides some scathing remarks and then retracts them in frustration. It's a cruel counterpoint to Act 1's sweet, kind, gentle Bethany.

to:

** Bethany becomes this over the course of the story, but how far the game takes it depends on her fate. It's far less noticeable if she's forced to join the Circle, for example, but although even then she's a little cold and sharp towards Hawke in later Acts. Warden Bethany, however is even more considerably bitter and cold towards not just Hawke, but almost all the former party members. This is more noticeable during the DLC, in which she provides some scathing remarks and then retracts them in frustration. It's a cruel counterpoint to Act 1's sweet, kind, gentle Bethany.
18th Sep '17 2:52:17 PM SorPepita
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** As mentioned in DesignatedHero above, the game paints Gamlen as being completely in the wrong for ''everything'', yet he does make some valid points. Leandra acts like he's selling Hawke and Sibling into slavery when he suggests a year of indentured servitude in exchange for passage into into the city, yet he's not wrong when he says the family fortune ''is'' gone (however it went), this ''is'' their only option, and also that the large influx of unskilled immigrant labor into the city would make jobs very limited, so "think of it as having a job waiting for you once you get in." Sure enough...[[note]]a year later most Blight refugees are toiling away in dead-end poverty ''at best'', whereas the connections and reputation that Hawke gains from a year running with the gang/mercenary company ensures that s/he leaves with better job offers (such as being offered an equal partnership in Varric and Bartrand's business venture) than most Kirkwall natives could dream.[[/note]] While Gamlen is wrong for having stolen and gambled his sister's inheritance away, he still makes a point that Leandra ''chose'' to leave the fortune behind years ago. Finally, the game treats Gamlen asking Leandra for rent as a very unreasonable request, yet by the time he asks she's been sitting in his house doing nothing (neither chores nor job-hunting) for ''over a year'', so it's perfectly reasonable for him to ask her to pitch in if she has no intention of moving out.

to:

** As mentioned in DesignatedHero above, the game paints Gamlen as being completely in the wrong for ''everything'', yet he does make some valid points. Leandra acts like he's selling Hawke and Sibling into slavery when he suggests a year of indentured servitude in exchange for passage into into the city, yet he's not wrong when he says the family fortune ''is'' gone (however it went), this ''is'' their only option, and also that the large influx of unskilled immigrant labor into the city would make jobs very limited, so "think of it as having a job waiting for you once you get in." Sure enough...[[note]]a year later most Blight refugees are toiling away in dead-end poverty ''at best'', whereas the connections and reputation that Hawke gains from a year running with the gang/mercenary company ensures that s/he leaves with better job offers (such as being offered an equal partnership in Varric and Bartrand's business venture) than most Kirkwall natives could dream.[[/note]] While Gamlen is wrong for having stolen and gambled his sister's inheritance away, he still makes a point that Leandra ''chose'' to leave the fortune behind years ago. Finally, the game treats Gamlen asking Leandra for rent as a very unreasonable request, yet by the time he asks she's been sitting in his house doing nothing (neither chores nor job-hunting) for ''over a year'', so it's perfectly reasonable for him to ask her to pitch in if she has no intention of moving out.
18th Sep '17 1:33:00 PM SorPepita
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* FranchiseOriginalSin: Elf fans who weren't very happy about how BioWare handled the [[MightyWhitey "eluvian expert"]] in ''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition'' have retroactively looked back at how this game treated Merrill's quest to restore her eluvian and found that the seeds were sewn earlier than they noticed. Many have noted that in-universe Merrill is treated like a naive idiot by pretty much ''everyone'' for supposedly messing with powers too great for her to control despite it being ''her own culture'' ([[BrokenBase fans are still divided on that]]), whereas [[spoiler:Morrigan]] in the ''Witch Hunt'' DLC and ''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition'' is ''never'' questioned or disrespected by any characters for restoring her own eluvian [[spoiler:desipte ([[MightyWhitey or because]]) she's human]]. Narratively, many fans have also noted that this game depicting Hawke, a required human protagonist, as more credible in determining whether or not Merrill should or could even restore an artifact of her own culture only opened the door later for ''Inquisition'' to treat [[spoiler:Morrigan]] as a far greater expert on all elven lore over all other elves (even potentially to a Dalish Inquisitor and/or their ancient elvnen expert companion), and the game presenting her as ''the'' most suitable choice to [[spoiler:drink from the Well of Sorrows, a compilation of millennia of ancient elven memories, and inherit Mythal's godhood]] despite not being elven and having no personal connection to elven culture or people. The fact that ''Inquisition'' was written with a required human protagonist in mind, and [[spoiler:Morrigan]] is the default [[spoiler:drinker of the Well]] unless the player manually adjusts an elven protagonist to be one instead, just fans the flames.

to:

* FranchiseOriginalSin: Elf fans who weren't very happy about how BioWare handled the [[MightyWhitey "eluvian expert"]] in ''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition'' have retroactively looked back at how this game treated Merrill's quest to restore her eluvian and found that the seeds were sewn earlier than they noticed. Many have noted that in-universe Merrill is treated like a naive idiot by pretty much ''everyone'' for supposedly messing with powers too great for her to control despite it being ''her own culture'' ([[BrokenBase fans are still divided on that]]), whereas [[spoiler:Morrigan]] in the ''Witch Hunt'' DLC and ''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition'' is ''never'' questioned or disrespected by any characters for restoring her own eluvian [[spoiler:desipte ([[MightyWhitey or because]]) she's human]]. Narratively, many fans have also noted that this game depicting Hawke, a required human protagonist, as more credible in determining whether or not Merrill should or could even restore an artifact of her own culture only opened the door later for ''Inquisition'' to treat [[spoiler:Morrigan]] as a far greater expert on all elven lore over all other elves (even potentially to a Dalish Inquisitor and/or their ancient elvnen elven expert companion), and the game presenting her as ''the'' most suitable choice to [[spoiler:drink from the Well of Sorrows, a compilation of millennia of ancient elven memories, and inherit Mythal's godhood]] despite not being elven and having no personal connection to elven culture or people. The fact that ''Inquisition'' was written with a required human protagonist in mind, and [[spoiler:Morrigan]] is the default [[spoiler:drinker of the Well]] unless the player manually adjusts an elven protagonist to be one instead, just fans the flames.
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