History YMMV / DragonAgeII

19th Apr '17 11:46:33 AM Zaptech
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* TierInducedScrappy: Honestly, the choice to keep either [[spoiler:Anders or Sebastian]] during the final battle is hardly a tough choice from a gameplay perspective. The former is your team's group healer mage while the latter is a rogue for simply more damage-dealing. Almost anyone would prefer to take the healer, especially if he's the only one on the team.
18th Apr '17 1:48:27 PM Forenperser
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** After Meredith invokes the [[KillEmAll Right of Annulment]] the player is clearly meant to see this as a horrible thing, as the Templars immidiately start slaughtering the Mages who had no hand in the Chantry's destruction.....only that in the next moment the town gets absolutely ''swarmed'' by demons and abominations. There is even a scene where 3 templars are ganging up on one mage who insists she is innocent, only to turn into an Abomination the very next second. Instead of portraying the Mages as victims, this has much more of the opposite effect.
29th Mar '17 5:35:47 PM Teakay
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** The quest "All That Remains" is supposed to make the Templar point of view seem more sympathetic, since it features a blood mage serial killer [[spoiler:who brutally murders Hawke's mother]]. But at the same time it portrays the Templars as utterly incompetent -- only one of them is investigating the murders, and his concerns are dismissed by Meredith, who later has the gall to [[NeverMyFault brandish it as a trump card]] when Hawke speaks out against her.
12th Mar '17 12:42:03 PM Forenperser
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** Grand Cleric Elthina is ''almost'' as divisive as Anders. Some fans praise her as an [[CoolOldLady incredibly intelligent, kind, goodhearted]] ReasonableAuthorityFigure who made every possible effort to diffuse the volatile situation in Kirkwall, and feel that she might have even been making progress on the Mage/Templar issue when [[spoiler: [[DroppedABridgeOnHim Anders blew her and the rest of the Chantry up]].]] Many view her as being an utterly incompetent nitwit with a serious case of HeadInTheSandManagement (both in the Qunari crisis, which resulted in countless innocents dying, and in the Mage/Templar crisis) and an unwillingness to take responsibility for her actions or faults (most specifically, the appointment of [[KnightTemplar Knight Commander]] [[ChurchMilitant Meredith]]). There's even a relatively small-but-growing segment of fans who belive that Elthina is a MagnificentBitch who is ObfuscatingStupidity when, in reality, Kirkwall is exactly how she wants it to be (Chantry, and by extension, herself on top and in control), often pointing to a number of suspect moments to defend this viewpoint (specifically, the fact that the previous Viscount was assassinated in her custody, [[spoiler: Mother Petrice's assassination, as well as the fact she ''promoted'' Petrice in the first place]], and the fact that Elthina outright tells Hawke to lie to the Divine and say there are no problems in Kirkwall, which is obviously not true)

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** Grand Cleric Elthina is ''almost'' as divisive as Anders. Some fans praise her as an [[CoolOldLady incredibly intelligent, kind, goodhearted]] ReasonableAuthorityFigure who made every possible effort to diffuse the volatile situation in Kirkwall, and feel that she might have even been making progress on the Mage/Templar issue when [[spoiler: [[DroppedABridgeOnHim Anders blew her and the rest of the Chantry up]].]] Many view her as being an utterly incompetent nitwit with a serious case of HeadInTheSandManagement (both in the Qunari crisis, which resulted in countless innocents dying, and in the Mage/Templar crisis) and an unwillingness to take responsibility for her actions or faults (most specifically, the appointment of [[KnightTemplar Knight Commander]] [[ChurchMilitant Meredith]]). There's even a relatively small-but-growing segment of fans who belive that Elthina is a MagnificentBitch who is ObfuscatingStupidity when, in reality, Kirkwall is exactly how she wants it to be (Chantry, and by extension, herself on top and in control), often pointing to a number of suspect moments to defend this viewpoint (specifically, the fact that the previous Viscount was assassinated in her custody, [[spoiler: Mother Petrice's assassination, as well as the fact she ''promoted'' Petrice in the first place]], and the fact that Elthina outright tells Hawke to lie to the Divine and say there are no problems in Kirkwall, which is obviously not true)
7th Mar '17 7:42:36 PM Retloclive
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Added DiffLines:

* TierInducedScrappy: Honestly, the choice to keep either [[spoiler:Anders or Sebastian]] during the final battle is hardly a tough choice from a gameplay perspective. The former is your team's group healer mage while the latter is a rogue for simply more damage-dealing. Almost anyone would prefer to take the healer, especially if he's the only one on the team.
25th Feb '17 2:52:41 PM TheAmazingBlachman
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** Grand Cleric Elthina is ''almost'' as divisive as Anders. Some fans praise her as an [[CoolOldLady incredibly intelligent, kind, goodhearted]] ReasonableAuthorityFigure who made every possible effort to diffuse the volatile situation in Kirkwall, and feel that she might have even been making progress on the Mage/Templar issue when [[spoiler: [[DroppedABridgeOnHim Anders blew her and the rest of the Chantry up]].]] Many view her as being an utterly incompetent nitwit with a serious case of HeadIntheSandManagement (both in the Qunari crisis, which resulted in countless innocents dying, and in the Mage/Templar crisis) and an unwillingness to take responsibility for her actions or faults (most specifically, the appointment of [[KnightTemplar Knight Commander]] [[ChurchMilitant Meredith]]). There's even a relatively small-but-growing segment of fans who belive that Elthina is a MagnificentBitch who is ObfuscatingStupidity when, in reality, Kirkwall is exactly how she wants it to be (Chantry, and by extension, herself on top and in control), often pointing to a number of suspect moments to defend this viewpoint (specifically, the fact that the previous Viscount was assassinated in her custody, [[spoiler: Mother Petrice's assassination, as well as the fact she ''promoted'' Petrice in the first place]], and the fact that Elthina outright tells Hawke to lie to the Divine and say there are no problems in Kirkwall, which is obviously not true)

to:

** Grand Cleric Elthina is ''almost'' as divisive as Anders. Some fans praise her as an [[CoolOldLady incredibly intelligent, kind, goodhearted]] ReasonableAuthorityFigure who made every possible effort to diffuse the volatile situation in Kirkwall, and feel that she might have even been making progress on the Mage/Templar issue when [[spoiler: [[DroppedABridgeOnHim Anders blew her and the rest of the Chantry up]].]] Many view her as being an utterly incompetent nitwit with a serious case of HeadIntheSandManagement HeadInTheSandManagement (both in the Qunari crisis, which resulted in countless innocents dying, and in the Mage/Templar crisis) and an unwillingness to take responsibility for her actions or faults (most specifically, the appointment of [[KnightTemplar Knight Commander]] [[ChurchMilitant Meredith]]). There's even a relatively small-but-growing segment of fans who belive that Elthina is a MagnificentBitch who is ObfuscatingStupidity when, in reality, Kirkwall is exactly how she wants it to be (Chantry, and by extension, herself on top and in control), often pointing to a number of suspect moments to defend this viewpoint (specifically, the fact that the previous Viscount was assassinated in her custody, [[spoiler: Mother Petrice's assassination, as well as the fact she ''promoted'' Petrice in the first place]], and the fact that Elthina outright tells Hawke to lie to the Divine and say there are no problems in Kirkwall, which is obviously not true)



** As a subset of this, Grand Cleric Elthina is ''potentially'' meant to come across across as a ReasonableAuthorityFigure desperately trying to keep things together and failing despite valiant efforts, but her constant talk about compromise while both sides pile up the atrocities, without her ever really specifying exactly what "compromise" would entail, makes her behavior come off as HeadInTheSandManagement that borders on being StupidNeutral at worst.

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** As a subset of this, Grand Cleric Elthina is ''potentially'' meant clearly supposed to come across across as a ReasonableAuthorityFigure desperately trying to keep things together and failing despite valiant efforts, but her constant talk about compromise while both sides pile up the atrocities, without her ever really specifying exactly what "compromise" would entail, makes her behavior come off as HeadInTheSandManagement that borders on being StupidNeutral at worst.
22nd Feb '17 10:06:34 PM RomanBowler
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** Fenris is either a compelling character that shows the darkest of what a minority has to face or is an asshole who has a huge stick up his butt for every single thing that has something to do with magic to the point of being the Templars viewpoint version of Anders. Mage sympathizers and Dalish fans in particular feel that he is very hypocritical for generalizing both groups for thinking that they will always put down the disadvantaged if they gain power and always attempting to talk about the past respectively in a scathing way yet he does the exact same thing (to the same group of people in the former case).

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** Fenris is either a compelling character that shows the darkest of what a minority has to face or is an asshole who has a huge stick up his butt for every single thing that has something to do with magic to the point of being the Templars viewpoint version of Anders. Mage sympathizers and Dalish fans in particular feel that he is very hypocritical for generalizing both groups for thinking that they will always put down the disadvantaged if they gain power and always attempting to talk about the past respectively in a scathing way yet he does the exact same thing (to the same group of people in the former case). His status as a love interest doesn't help, you either love his TroubledButCute storyline or think that he's too much like a stereotypical JRPG protagonist.
31st Jan '17 5:15:11 PM Skooter910
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* AlternateAesopInterpretation: Occurs in-universe at the end of Merrill's personal quest. Hawke can either tell her [[EvilIsNotAToy she was stupid]] for thinkariing she could ever use blood magic safely, or that [[AllOfTheOtherReindeer everyone else was stupid]] for interfering with her life - [[spoiler: especially Marethari.]]

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* AlternateAesopInterpretation: Occurs in-universe at the end of Merrill's personal quest. Hawke can either tell her [[EvilIsNotAToy she was stupid]] for thinkariing thinking she could ever use blood magic safely, or that [[AllOfTheOtherReindeer everyone else was stupid]] for interfering with her life - [[spoiler: especially Marethari.]]
25th Jan '17 4:02:40 PM Teakay
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** Fenris is either a compelling character that shows the darkest of what a minority has to face or is an asshole who has a huge stick up his butt for every single thing that has something to do with magic to the point of being the Templars viewpoint version of Anders. Mage sympathizer and Dalish fans in particular feel that he is very hypocritical for generalizing both groups for thinking that they will always put down the disadvantage if they gain power and always attepting to talk about the past respectively in a scathing way yet he does the exact same thing (to the same group of people in the former case).

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*** More people disliked the later revelation in ''ComicBook/ThoseWhoSpeak'' that [[spoiler:she threw slaves overboard to drown in order to save herself]], considering it a MoralEventHorizon that casts UnfortunateImplications on her potential relationship with Fenris. Others argue that plenty of other party members have done horrible things and that the particular dislike of Isabela is based on her being "competition" for Fenris.
** Fenris is either a compelling character that shows the darkest of what a minority has to face or is an asshole who has a huge stick up his butt for every single thing that has something to do with magic to the point of being the Templars viewpoint version of Anders. Mage sympathizer sympathizers and Dalish fans in particular feel that he is very hypocritical for generalizing both groups for thinking that they will always put down the disadvantage disadvantaged if they gain power and always attepting attempting to talk about the past respectively in a scathing way yet he does the exact same thing (to the same group of people in the former case).
20th Jan '17 12:45:58 PM LadyNorbert
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* AlternateAesopInterpretation: Occurs in-universe at the end of Merrill's personal quest. Hawke can either tell her [[EvilIsNotAToy she was stupid]] for thinking she could ever use blood magic safely, or that [[AllOfTheOtherReindeer everyone else was stupid]] for interfering with her life - [[spoiler: especially Marethari.]]

to:

* AlternateAesopInterpretation: Occurs in-universe at the end of Merrill's personal quest. Hawke can either tell her [[EvilIsNotAToy she was stupid]] for thinking thinkariing she could ever use blood magic safely, or that [[AllOfTheOtherReindeer everyone else was stupid]] for interfering with her life - [[spoiler: especially Marethari.]]



** In addition, players who tend to like the Qun/Qunari often try to justify the Arishock's actions, despite the fact he [[spoiler: killed a whole bunch of innocent people, including the Viscount who, ironically enough, appeared to be the ''only person in all of Kirkwall'' trying to end the city's status as a WretchedHive. It's not uncommon for players to turn over Isabella purely so they don't have to kill the Arishock.]]

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** In addition, players who tend to like the Qun/Qunari often try to justify the Arishock's Arishok's actions, despite the fact he [[spoiler: killed a whole bunch of innocent people, including the Viscount who, ironically enough, appeared to be the ''only person in all of Kirkwall'' trying to end the city's status as a WretchedHive. It's not uncommon for players to turn over Isabella purely so they don't have to kill the Arishock.Arishok.]]



* {{Narm}}: [[WhamEpisode Yes, it is shocking]] when [[spoiler: Anders nukes the Chantry at the end of Act III]]. It is however ''impossible'' to take the situation seriously after Sebastian's BigNo.

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* {{Narm}}: [[WhamEpisode Yes, it is shocking]] when [[spoiler: Anders nukes the Chantry at the end of Act III]]. It is however is, however, ''impossible'' to take the situation seriously after Sebastian's BigNo.
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