Follow TV Tropes

Following

History YMMV / Dogma

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Bethany and Rufus beg Reverend Glick to cancel the ceremony, saying that going through with it would be a "big mistake." Glick is offended and says the Catholic Church doesn't make mistakes. Both the examples Bethany and Rufus give to counter this claim (the Church's tacit approval of slavery and non-stance on the Holocaust) and Glick's insistence that the modern incarnation of the Church shouldn't be held responsible for the mistakes of the old come off as this trope, since the "mistake" the Catholic Church would be known for in the TurnOfTheMillennium and TheNew10s is a decades-long cover up of child abuse by the clergy.

to:

** Bethany and Rufus beg Reverend Glick to cancel the ceremony, saying that going through with it would be a "big mistake." Glick is offended and says the Catholic Church doesn't make mistakes. Both the examples mistakes, and when Bethany and Rufus give to counter this claim cite a couple (the Church's tacit approval of slavery and non-stance its non-involvement stance on the Holocaust) and Glick's insistence Holocaust), he insists that that the modern new incarnation of the Church shouldn't should not be held responsible for the mistakes of the old come off as this trope, since old. This is, of course, just before the "mistake" the Catholic Church would be known for in the TurnOfTheMillennium and TheNew10s is would become public: a decades-long cover up of child abuse by the clergy.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Bethany and Rufus beg Reverend Glick to cancel the ceremony, saying that going through with it would be a "big mistake." Glick is offended and says the Catholic Church doesn't make mistakes. Both the examples Bethany and Rufus give to counter this claim (the Church's tacit approval of slavery and non-stance on the Holocaust) and Glick's insistence that the modern incarnation of the Church shouldn't be held responsible for the mistakes of the old are wild to listen to, since the "mistake" the Catholic Church would be known for in the TurnOfTheMillennium and TheNew10s is a decades-long cover up of child abuse by the clergy.

to:

** Bethany and Rufus beg Reverend Glick to cancel the ceremony, saying that going through with it would be a "big mistake." Glick is offended and says the Catholic Church doesn't make mistakes. Both the examples Bethany and Rufus give to counter this claim (the Church's tacit approval of slavery and non-stance on the Holocaust) and Glick's insistence that the modern incarnation of the Church shouldn't be held responsible for the mistakes of the old are wild to listen to, come off as this trope, since the "mistake" the Catholic Church would be known for in the TurnOfTheMillennium and TheNew10s is a decades-long cover up of child abuse by the clergy.

Added: 1168

Changed: 533

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* HarsherInHindsight: In the scene where Azrael holds the gang hostage at the bar, Jay can occasionally be seen sleeping in the background. This was not a gag, as Creator/JasonMewes had lied to Creator/KevinSmith about having kicked his heroin addiction, a side effect of which was frequent bouts of drowsiness (this despite Smith congratulating Mewes by writing "See? Sober living paid off" in the credits). This resulted in the two briefly falling out and Mewes having to go to rehab twice between 2002 and 2010 before he actually became sober for good.

to:

* HarsherInHindsight: HarsherInHindsight:
**
In the scene where Azrael holds the gang hostage at the bar, Jay can occasionally be seen sleeping in the background. This was not a gag, as Creator/JasonMewes had lied to Creator/KevinSmith about having kicked his heroin addiction, a side effect of which was frequent bouts of drowsiness (this despite Smith congratulating Mewes by writing "See? Sober living paid off" in the credits). This resulted in the two briefly falling out and Mewes having to go to rehab twice between 2002 and 2010 before he actually became sober for good.good.
** Bethany and Rufus beg Reverend Glick to cancel the ceremony, saying that going through with it would be a "big mistake." Glick is offended and says the Catholic Church doesn't make mistakes. Both the examples Bethany and Rufus give to counter this claim (the Church's tacit approval of slavery and non-stance on the Holocaust) and Glick's insistence that the modern incarnation of the Church shouldn't be held responsible for the mistakes of the old are wild to listen to, since the "mistake" the Catholic Church would be known for in the TurnOfTheMillennium and TheNew10s is a decades-long cover up of child abuse by the clergy.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* EnsembleDarkhorse: The Metatron steals the show in the few scenes that he's in thanks to Alan Rickman's performance and getting some of the best lines in the movie.

to:

* EnsembleDarkhorse: EnsembleDarkHorse: The Metatron steals the show in the few scenes that he's in thanks to Alan Rickman's performance and getting some of the best lines in the movie.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

----
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FanPreferredCutContent: [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9qAqwIW704 Azrael's deleted rant]] how humans turned Hell from exile by God into a realm of eternal punishment and torrent. This scene gives him more compelling character and motivation, plus it's Creator/JasonLee's best scene in the movie.

to:

* FanPreferredCutContent: [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9qAqwIW704 Azrael's deleted rant]] how humans turned Hell from exile by God into a realm of eternal punishment and torrent.torment. This scene gives him more compelling character and motivation, plus it's Creator/JasonLee's best scene in the movie.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* CrossesTheLineTwice: Jay and Silent Bob (possibly just Jay and Bob was going along with it) decided to go to an abortion clinic to try and pick up women, since in Jay's words, "Why else would they be here if they didn't like to fuck?"

Added: 461

Changed: 166

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* EnsembleDarkhorse: The Metatron steals the show in the few scenes that he's in thanks to Alan Rickman's performance and getting some of the best lines in the movie.



* MemeticMutation: The infamous "Buddy Christ" statue has been used to death on forums, and has had a countless amount of captions attached, even by people who've never seen the movie.

to:

* MemeticMutation: MemeticMutation:
**
The infamous "Buddy Christ" statue has been used to death on forums, and has had a countless amount of captions attached, even by people who've never seen the movie.movie.
** [[https://tenor.com/view/what-confused-chris-rock-gif-7753230 Rufus's confused expression]] is often used as a reaction GIF.

Changed: 121

Removed: 299

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Established Complete Monster is disqualified as beyond legit audience sympathy, and doesn't apply if not part of the work proper.


* FanPreferredCutContent: [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9qAqwIW704 Azrael's deleted rant about Hell.]] This scene actually gives him more motivation, plus it's Creator/JasonLee's best scene in the movie.

to:

* FanPreferredCutContent: [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9qAqwIW704 Azrael's deleted rant about Hell.]] rant]] how humans turned Hell from exile by God into a realm of eternal punishment and torrent. This scene actually gives him more compelling character and motivation, plus it's Creator/JasonLee's best scene in the movie.



** Azrael. The deleted scene featuring his rant about how humans turned Hell from exile by God into a realm of eternal punishment and torrent adds a sympathetic background to his character, and it had to be removed because omnicidial villains aren't supposed to have a good reason for their actions.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* SpiritualAdaptation: In his Research Riff on the film, Mister X of Geek Juice considers this to be a Creator/{{Vertigo|Comics}} comic book as a film, comparing it to the likes of ''ComicBook/{{Preacher}}'' and ''ComicBook/TheSandman'', particuarly the parking lot scene, which he compared to Creator/NeilGaiman and Creator/WarrenEllis.

to:

* SpiritualAdaptation: In his Research Riff on the film, Mister X of Geek Juice considers this to be a Creator/{{Vertigo|Comics}} comic book as a film, comparing it to the likes of ''ComicBook/{{Preacher}}'' and ''ComicBook/TheSandman'', ''ComicBook/TheSandman1989'', particuarly the parking lot scene, which he compared to Creator/NeilGaiman and Creator/WarrenEllis.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Rufus is still a funny character, but Creator/ChrisRock really steps up his game here.

to:

** Rufus is still a funny character, but Creator/ChrisRock really steps up his game here.here when handling sincere scenes, such as Rufus describing fondly what Jesus was like.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Azrael. The deleted scene featuring his rant about how humans turned Hell from exile by God into a realm of eternal punishment and torrent adds a sympathetic background to his character, and it had to be removed because omnicidial villains aren't supposed to have a good reason for their actions.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AcceptableTargets:
** "Worse, Wisconsin." Note that this line was penned by a UsefulNotes/NewJersey native. For the record, in a DeletedScene, Bartleby asks why they didn't just leave Wisconsin, and Loki replies that they thought God would have sent them somewhere worse, like New Jersey.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FanPreferredCutContent: [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9qAqwIW704 Azrael's deleted rant about Hell]]. This scene actually gives him more motivation, plus it's Creator/JasonLee's best scene in the movie.

to:

* FanPreferredCutContent: [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9qAqwIW704 Azrael's deleted rant about Hell]]. Hell.]] This scene actually gives him more motivation, plus it's Creator/JasonLee's best scene in the movie.



* MoralEventHorizon: Bartleby orbits it for at least a third of the movie, but unequivocally crosses it when he taunts Bethany and sticks a shiv in [[spoiler:Loki, not only killing his friend but doing the deed without Loki entering the church, knowingly condemning him to Hell]].

to:

* MoralEventHorizon: Bartleby orbits it for at least a third of the movie, but unequivocally crosses it when he taunts Bethany and sticks a shiv in [[spoiler:Loki, not only killing his friend but doing the deed without Loki entering the church, knowingly condemning him to Hell]].Hell.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* CompleteMonster: [[PsychopathicManchild Azrael]] is a former muse turned demon, who was banished to Hell eons ago for refusing to participate in the war between Lucifer and God. He is [[TheManBehindTheMan the mastermind]] behind Bartleby and Loki's plan to get back into Heaven. He gave them the idea by sending them a newspaper article of the church's absolution ceremony; he also had his cronies beat God--who was taking a mortal form as an old man--into a coma so God couldn't interfere. When his plans don't work, Azrael traps the heroes in a bar on their way to the ceremony and reveals [[OmnicidalManiac his plan]]: he's counting on the angels getting absolution and re-entering Heaven, which would overrule God's word and negate all of existence. His [[SuicidalCosmicTemperTantrum motivation]] is he he would rather not exist than live in Hell, and if all of existence has to go down with him, then so be it.

to:

* CompleteMonster: [[PsychopathicManchild Azrael]] is a former muse turned demon, who was banished to Hell eons ago for refusing to participate in the war between Lucifer and God. He is [[TheManBehindTheMan the mastermind]] behind Bartleby and Loki's plan to get back into Heaven. He gave them the idea by sending them a newspaper article of the church's absolution ceremony; he also had his cronies beat God--who was taking a mortal form as an old man--into a coma so God couldn't interfere. When his plans don't work, Azrael traps the heroes in a bar on their way to the ceremony and reveals [[OmnicidalManiac his plan]]: he's counting on the angels getting absolution and re-entering Heaven, which would overrule God's word and negate all of existence. His [[SuicidalCosmicTemperTantrum motivation]] is he that he would rather not exist than live in Hell, and if all of existence has to go down with him, then so be it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** Metatron is something of a StoicWoobie: He's had to deliver some truly awful messages to humanity over the course of history, and now people are drenching him with the contents of hand-held fire hydrants. He never complains, but still, it's hard not to feel sorry for him.

to:

*** Metatron is something of a StoicWoobie: He's had to deliver some truly awful messages to humanity over the course of history, and now people are drenching him with the contents of hand-held fire hydrants. He never complains, but still, complains just once, and yet it's still hard not to feel sorry for him.

Changed: 216

Removed: 167

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** "Worse, Wisconsin." Note that this line was penned by a UsefulNotes/NewJersey native.
** In a DeletedScene, Bartleby asks why they didn't just leave Wisconsin, and Loki replies that they thought God would have sent them somewhere worse, like New Jersey.

to:

** "Worse, Wisconsin." Note that this line was penned by a UsefulNotes/NewJersey native.
** In
native. For the record, in a DeletedScene, Bartleby asks why they didn't just leave Wisconsin, and Loki replies that they thought God would have sent them somewhere worse, like New Jersey.



** The Golgothian, Hell's top assassin is taken out [[spoiler:with a can of deodorant.]]

to:

** The Golgothian, Hell's top assassin is taken out [[spoiler:with a can of deodorant. Possibly justified by RuleOfFunny.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* HarsherInHindsight: In the scene where Azrael holds the gang hostage at the bar, Jay can occasionally be seen sleeping in the background. This was not a gag, as Jason Mewes had lied to Kevin Smith about having kicked his heroin addiction, a side effect of which was frequent bouts of drowsiness (this despite Smith congratulating Mewes by writing "See? Sober living paid off" in the credits). This resulted in the two briefly falling out and Mewes having to go to rehab twice between 2002 and 2010 before he actually became sober for good.

to:

* HarsherInHindsight: In the scene where Azrael holds the gang hostage at the bar, Jay can occasionally be seen sleeping in the background. This was not a gag, as Jason Mewes Creator/JasonMewes had lied to Kevin Smith Creator/KevinSmith about having kicked his heroin addiction, a side effect of which was frequent bouts of drowsiness (this despite Smith congratulating Mewes by writing "See? Sober living paid off" in the credits). This resulted in the two briefly falling out and Mewes having to go to rehab twice between 2002 and 2010 before he actually became sober for good.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* SpiritualAdaptation: In his Research Riff on the film, Mister X of Geek Juice considers this to be a Creator/DCVertigo comic book as a film, comparing it to the likes of ''ComicBook/{{Preacher}}'' and ''ComicBook/TheSandman'', particuarly the parking lot scene, which he compared to Creator/NeilGaiman and Creator/WarrenEllis.

to:

* SpiritualAdaptation: In his Research Riff on the film, Mister X of Geek Juice considers this to be a Creator/DCVertigo Creator/{{Vertigo|Comics}} comic book as a film, comparing it to the likes of ''ComicBook/{{Preacher}}'' and ''ComicBook/TheSandman'', particuarly the parking lot scene, which he compared to Creator/NeilGaiman and Creator/WarrenEllis.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FanPreferredCutContent: [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9qAqwIW704 Azmael's deleted rant about Hell]]. This scene actually gives him more motivation, plus it's Creator/JasonLee's best scene in the movie.

to:

* FanPreferredCutContent: [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9qAqwIW704 Azmael's Azrael's deleted rant about Hell]]. This scene actually gives him more motivation, plus it's Creator/JasonLee's best scene in the movie.

Added: 208

Changed: 2

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AnticlimaxBoss:

to:

* AnticlimaxBoss:AntiClimaxBoss:


Added DiffLines:

* FanPreferredCutContent: [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9qAqwIW704 Azmael's deleted rant about Hell]]. This scene actually gives him more motivation, plus it's Creator/JasonLee's best scene in the movie.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* {{Anvilicious}}: Many of the ideas proposed in the film about organized religion and the nature of spirituality are worth serious consideration, but since they're filtered through typical '90s [[DeadpanSnarker snark-talk]], a lot of it comes off as SophisticatedAsHell. More often than not, the film feels like a long, [[ContemplateOurNavels navel-gazing]] conversation with someone than a story.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* GeniusBonus: Brazilian writer and "jazz musician" Luis Fernando Verissimo once wrote a essay in which he claimed that the Walrus and the Carpenter from Alice in Wonderland were metaphors for Buddha and Jesus (one being fat, and the other, a carpenter), and the oysters they brainwashed represented the followers of both religions. Sound familiar?

Top