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** : Koba's bellicose nature seemed downright fanciful at the time the film was made, but a [[https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/male-bonobos-close-human-relatives-long-thought-to-be-peaceful-are-actually-quite-aggressive-study-suggests-180984157/ 2023 study]] revealed Bonobos ''can'' be aggresive.

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** : Koba's bellicose nature seemed downright fanciful at the time the film was made, but a [[https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/male-bonobos-close-human-relatives-long-thought-to-be-peaceful-are-actually-quite-aggressive-study-suggests-180984157/ 2023 study]] revealed Bonobos ''can'' be aggresive.
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* HilariousInHindsight: Koba's bellicose nature seemed downright fanciful at the time the film was made, but a [[https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/male-bonobos-close-human-relatives-long-thought-to-be-peaceful-are-actually-quite-aggressive-study-suggests-180984157/ 2023 study]] revealed Bonobos ''can'' be aggresive.

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* HilariousInHindsight: ** : Koba's bellicose nature seemed downright fanciful at the time the film was made, but a [[https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/male-bonobos-close-human-relatives-long-thought-to-be-peaceful-are-actually-quite-aggressive-study-suggests-180984157/ 2023 study]] revealed Bonobos ''can'' be aggresive.
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* HilariousInHindsight: Koba's bellicose nature seemed downright fanciful at the time the film was made, but a [[https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/male-bonobos-close-human-relatives-long-thought-to-be-peaceful-are-actually-quite-aggressive-study-suggests-180984157/ 2023 study]] revealed Bonobos ''can'' be aggresive.
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** The conflict between Caesar and Koba over whether to help the humans or to destroy them, with Caesar being motivated by compassion, and Koba being motivated by torture, along with Koba shooting Caesar and taking over the tribe, and Caesar having to defeat him in a confrontation invoking RightfulKingReturns, is later repeated again in ''Film/BlackPanther2018''.

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** The conflict between Caesar and Koba over whether to help the humans or to destroy them, with Caesar being motivated by compassion, and Koba being motivated by torture, along with Koba shooting Caesar and taking over the tribe, and Caesar having to defeat him in a confrontation invoking RightfulKingReturns, is later repeated again in ''Film/BlackPanther2018''. Which also happens to feature Andy Serkiss.
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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Koba gets this the most:

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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: Koba gets this the most:
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* JerksAreWorseThanVillains: Carver is more loathed then the film's BigBad Koba, lacking the latter's backstory and EvilIsCool aspects and instead coming off as a whiny xenophobic jackass who contributed to [[spoiler:the Ape-Human war starting up]]. Unwittingly, yes, but still...

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* JerksAreWorseThanVillains: Carver is more loathed then the film's BigBad Koba, lacking the latter's tragic backstory and EvilIsCool aspects and instead coming off as a whiny whiny, xenophobic jackass who contributed to [[spoiler:the Ape-Human war starting up]]. Unwittingly, yes, but still...
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* JerksAreWorseThanVillains: Carver is more loathed then the film's BigBad Koba.

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* JerksAreWorseThanVillains: Carver is more loathed then the film's BigBad Koba.Koba, lacking the latter's backstory and EvilIsCool aspects and instead coming off as a whiny xenophobic jackass who contributed to [[spoiler:the Ape-Human war starting up]]. Unwittingly, yes, but still...
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* JerksAreWorseThanVillains: Carver is more loathed then the film's BigBad Koba.
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** Koba could be considered this in spite of [[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope the cruel, sadistic, violent, treacherous, bloodthirsty, hypocritical tyrant he becomes.]] Whatever he has done, Koba is [[TragicMonster a broken ape traumatized by abuse, torture and heartbreak]] as shown in the ''Firestorm'' prequel novel. The loss of his mother, his time as an abused trained ape, and his years as a tormented, isolated lab ape, all of which eventually causes him to turn on his fellow apes to avenge his past, are all downright depressing. [[spoiler:After his [[ThePowerOfHate insatiable hatred of humans]] has become so strong that he came to view Caesar and any other ape that might not want to wage war on humanity as being little to no better than humans, his own actions cause Caesar, who was once like a brother to him, to think similarly of Koba, stating to his face "You are ''not ape''" before dropping him to a CruelAndUnusualDeath - a painful end to a life filled with pain.]]

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** Koba could be considered this in spite of [[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope the cruel, sadistic, violent, treacherous, bloodthirsty, hypocritical tyrant he becomes.]] Whatever he has done, Koba is [[TragicMonster a broken ape traumatized by a lifetime of abuse, torture and heartbreak]] as shown in the ''Firestorm'' prequel novel. The loss of his beloved mother, his time as an abused trained ape, and his years as a tormented, isolated lab ape, all of which eventually causes him to turn on his fellow apes to avenge his past, are all downright depressing. [[spoiler:After his [[ThePowerOfHate insatiable hatred of humans]] has become so strong that he came to view Caesar and any other ape that might not want to wage war on humanity as being little to no better than humans, his own actions cause Caesar, who was once like a brother to him, to think similarly of Koba, stating to his face "You are ''not ape''" before dropping him to a CruelAndUnusualDeath - a painful end to a life filled with pain.]]
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** [[spoiler:"You...are...NOT ape."]]
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** Koba is very much this in spite of the cruel, sadistic, violent, treacherous, bloodthirsty, hypocritical tyrant he becomes. Whatever he has done, Koba is a broken ape traumatized by abuse, torture and heartbreak as shown in the ''Firestorm'' prequel novel. The loss of his mother, his time as an abused trained ape, and his years as a tormented, isolated lab ape, all of which eventually causes him to turn on his fellow apes to avenge his past, are all downright depressing.

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** Koba is very much could be considered this in spite of [[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope the cruel, sadistic, violent, treacherous, bloodthirsty, hypocritical tyrant he becomes. becomes.]] Whatever he has done, Koba is [[TragicMonster a broken ape traumatized by abuse, torture and heartbreak heartbreak]] as shown in the ''Firestorm'' prequel novel. The loss of his mother, his time as an abused trained ape, and his years as a tormented, isolated lab ape, all of which eventually causes him to turn on his fellow apes to avenge his past, are all downright depressing. [[spoiler:After his [[ThePowerOfHate insatiable hatred of humans]] has become so strong that he came to view Caesar and any other ape that might not want to wage war on humanity as being little to no better than humans, his own actions cause Caesar, who was once like a brother to him, to think similarly of Koba, stating to his face "You are ''not ape''" before dropping him to a CruelAndUnusualDeath - a painful end to a life filled with pain.]]



* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: According to [[WordOfGod the director, Matt Reeves]], [[https://www.mtv.com/news/1920387/dawn-of-the-planet-of-the-apes-sequel-koba/ Koba]] was made to be a TragicVillain, which the movie and corresponding books clearly try to make him by showing his [[BeingTorturedMakesYouEvil horrific past]] and inner suffering. However, while [[IntendedAudienceReaction some people do view Koba as tragic]], many others lose all sympathy for him due to his selfishness, ruthless savagery, and [[{{Hypocrite}} blatant hypocrisy]] toward the end of the film.

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* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: According to [[WordOfGod the director, Matt Reeves]], [[https://www.mtv.com/news/1920387/dawn-of-the-planet-of-the-apes-sequel-koba/ Koba]] was made to be a TragicVillain, which the movie and corresponding books clearly try to make him by showing his [[BeingTorturedMakesYouEvil horrific past]] and inner suffering. However, while [[IntendedAudienceReaction some people do view Koba as tragic]], many others lose all sympathy for him due to his selfishness, ruthless savagery, and [[{{Hypocrite}} blatant hypocrisy]] toward the end of the film.film, and the fact that in this film itself there is not a single moment where he expresses any conflicting feelings or remorse for any of it despite Caesar and the other apes having been family to him.
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* EvilIsCool: Koba has received universal acclaim for his role as the primary antagonist of the movie. He may be a completely psychopathic and sadistic monster, but he is also a totally badass ape. Koba is widely considered one of the best movie villains of the 2010s.

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* EvilIsCool: Koba has received universal acclaim for his role as the primary antagonist of the movie. He may be become a completely psychopathic ruthless and sadistic monster, but he is also a totally badass ape.ape, with his tragic backstory making his actions understandable. Koba is widely considered one of the best movie villains of the 2010s.



** Koba is very much this in spite of the cruel, sadistic, violent, treacherous, bloodthirsty, hypocritical tyrant he becomes. Whatever he has done, Koba is a broken ape traumatized by abuse, torture and heartbreak as shown in the ''Firestorm'' prequel novel. The loss of his mother, his time as an abused trained ape, and his years as a tormented lab ape, all of which eventually causes him to turn on his fellow apes to avenge his past, are all downright depressing.

to:

** Koba is very much this in spite of the cruel, sadistic, violent, treacherous, bloodthirsty, hypocritical tyrant he becomes. Whatever he has done, Koba is a broken ape traumatized by abuse, torture and heartbreak as shown in the ''Firestorm'' prequel novel. The loss of his mother, his time as an abused trained ape, and his years as a tormented tormented, isolated lab ape, all of which eventually causes him to turn on his fellow apes to avenge his past, are all downright depressing.
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* CryForTheDevil: Many viewers felt sorry for Koba at the start of the movie, especially when he reminds Caesar that humans are the reason why he looks so disfigured after they experimented on and tortured him for years. For most people, this sympathy ends later on though when he subverts a FreudianExcuse due to his selfishness and blatant hypocrisy (using "human work" to achieve his means, including against his fellow apes).

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* CryForTheDevil: Many viewers felt sorry for Koba at the start of the movie, especially when he reminds Caesar that humans are the reason why he looks so disfigured after they experimented on and tortured him for years. For most some people, this sympathy ends later on though when he subverts a FreudianExcuse due to his selfishness and blatant hypocrisy (using "human work" to achieve his means, including against his fellow apes).



** Koba can still be seen as this in spite of the cruel, sadistic, violent, treacherous, bloodthirsty, hypocritical tyrant he becomes. Whatever he has done, Koba is still a damaged ape traumatized by abuse, torture and heartbreak as shown in the ''Firestorm'' prequel novel. The loss of his mother, his time as an abused trained ape, and his years as a tormented lab ape, are all downright depressing.

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** Koba can still be seen as is very much this in spite of the cruel, sadistic, violent, treacherous, bloodthirsty, hypocritical tyrant he becomes. Whatever he has done, Koba is still a damaged broken ape traumatized by abuse, torture and heartbreak as shown in the ''Firestorm'' prequel novel. The loss of his mother, his time as an abused trained ape, and his years as a tormented lab ape, all of which eventually causes him to turn on his fellow apes to avenge his past, are all downright depressing.

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Removed: 2004



* BaseBreakingCharacter: Koba: While most people agree that he is a very compelling and interesting villain, some people disagree on whether or not his sympathy holds up. Some argue that he is a mentally ill TragicVillain through and through because of his TraumaCongaLine, while others see him as a purely evil CompleteMonster because of his selfishness and heinous actions.

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* BaseBreakingCharacter: Koba: While most people agree that he is a very compelling and interesting villain, some people disagree on whether or not his sympathy holds up. Some argue that he is a mentally ill TragicVillain through and through because of his TraumaCongaLine, while others see him as a purely evil CompleteMonster villain because of his selfishness and heinous actions.



* CompleteMonster:
** Prequel comic, by Michael Moreci et al.: [[TheSocialDarwinist Pope]] is a brutal chimpanzee and the commander of Caesar's ape soldiers. [[MightMakesRight Believing that Caesar's rule has made the ape society weak]], Pope desires to wrest power from the Ape King through any means necessary. Subjugating a tribe of primal apes by killing their alpha, Pope forces them to undergo vicious {{training|From Hell}} to mold them into loyal soldiers with which to use to conquer Caesar's colony. Demonstrating his cruelty by having a dissenting ape tortured and [[FedToTheBeast fed to a polar bear]], Pope proceeds to have dozens of humans and apes alike rounded up and caged with the intention of using them as slave fodder. When confronted about his inhumane treatment towards his fellow apes, Pope [[NoTrueScotsman casually decries them as not apes]], but mere "dumb animals".
** Film: [[ItsAllAboutMe Koba]] is a [[AbsoluteXenophobe xenophobic ape]] of the highest order. Initially loyal to Caesar, he was disgusted with the fact that Caesar would bring humans into their territory, so Koba decides to betray his leader and take matters into his own hands. Displaying his callousness by murdering two guards, Koba raids the armory of the human city, returning to shoot Caesar and burn down his former home. Pinning the blame on the humans, Koba rallies the misguided apes into attacking San Francisco. Koba shows his hypocritical nature by cruelly tossing the young Ash to his death when he refuses to kill defenseless people in Caesar's name. Upon [[TyrantTakesTheHelm taking over the city]], Koba imposes his rule by trapping the humans in cages and imprisoning any ape still loyal to Caesar in chains. When finally confronted by Caesar, Koba snaps and starts gunning down his former comrades, even as Caesar is trying to help them. Displaying savagery to human and ape alike, [[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist Koba]] proved to be [[HeWhoFightsMonsters no better than the worst of the humans he despised]].

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* CompleteMonster:
**
CompleteMonster: Prequel comic, by Michael Moreci et al.: [[TheSocialDarwinist Pope]] is a brutal chimpanzee and the commander of Caesar's ape soldiers. [[MightMakesRight Believing that Caesar's rule has made the ape society weak]], Pope desires to wrest power from the Ape King through any means necessary. Subjugating a tribe of primal apes by killing their alpha, Pope forces them to undergo vicious {{training|From Hell}} to mold them into loyal soldiers with which to use to conquer Caesar's colony. Demonstrating his cruelty by having a dissenting ape tortured and [[FedToTheBeast fed to a polar bear]], Pope proceeds to have dozens of humans and apes alike rounded up and caged with the intention of using them as slave fodder. When confronted about his inhumane treatment towards his fellow apes, Pope [[NoTrueScotsman casually decries them as not apes]], but mere "dumb animals".
** Film: [[ItsAllAboutMe Koba]] is a [[AbsoluteXenophobe xenophobic ape]] of the highest order. Initially loyal to Caesar, he was disgusted with the fact that Caesar would bring humans into their territory, so Koba decides to betray his leader and take matters into his own hands. Displaying his callousness by murdering two guards, Koba raids the armory of the human city, returning to shoot Caesar and burn down his former home. Pinning the blame on the humans, Koba rallies the misguided apes into attacking San Francisco. Koba shows his hypocritical nature by cruelly tossing the young Ash to his death when he refuses to kill defenseless people in Caesar's name. Upon [[TyrantTakesTheHelm taking over the city]], Koba imposes his rule by trapping the humans in cages and imprisoning any ape still loyal to Caesar in chains. When finally confronted by Caesar, Koba snaps and starts gunning down his former comrades, even as Caesar is trying to help them. Displaying savagery to human and ape alike, [[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist Koba]] proved to be [[HeWhoFightsMonsters no better than the worst of the humans he despised]].
animals".
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** Though some people do still sympathize with him, especially those who have read the ''Firestorm'' prequel novel which shows his awful backstory of losing his mother and being an abused train ape ''before'' becoming a tormented lab ape.

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** Though some people do still sympathize with him, especially those who have read the ''Firestorm'' prequel novel which shows his awful backstory of losing his mother and being an abused train trained ape ''before'' becoming a tormented lab ape.
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** Though some people do still sympathize with him, especially those who have read the ''Firestorm'' prequel novel which shows his awful backstory of losing his mother and being used for human entertainment ''before'' becoming an abused lab ape.

to:

** Though some people do still sympathize with him, especially those who have read the ''Firestorm'' prequel novel which shows his awful backstory of losing his mother and being used for human entertainment an abused train ape ''before'' becoming an abused a tormented lab ape.



** Koba is still this for some people in spite of the cruel, violent, treacherous, sadistic, bloodthirsty, hypocritical tyrant he becomes. Whatever he has done, Koba is still a damaged ape traumatized by abuse, torture and heartbreak as shown in the ''Firestorm'' prequel novel.

to:

** Koba is can still be seen as this for some people in spite of the cruel, sadistic, violent, treacherous, sadistic, bloodthirsty, hypocritical tyrant he becomes. Whatever he has done, Koba is still a damaged ape traumatized by abuse, torture and heartbreak as shown in the ''Firestorm'' prequel novel. The loss of his mother, his time as an abused trained ape, and his years as a tormented lab ape, are all downright depressing.

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Koba technically isn't a strawman because the film-makers intended for his points to be valid.


** Koba is still this for some people in spite of the cruel, violent, treacherous, sadistic, bloodthirsty, hypocritical tyrant he becomes. Whatever he has done, Koba is still a damaged ape traumatized by abuse, torture and heartbreak as shown in the ''Firestorm'' prequel novel.



* StrawmanHasAPoint: Before he JumpsOffTheSlipperySlope, Koba does make a pretty good point about the humans. Once the humans regain electricity, reconnect with other human outposts, and begin rebuilding their society, how long does Caesar think the humans will allow a civilization of intelligent apes to survive? Even if it takes a century, [[InevitableMutualBetrayal conflict between apes and humans seems inevitable]]. [[DoUntoOthersBeforeTheyDoUntoUs It was probably better for the apes to strike first while they had the advantage]].

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The guards weren't helpless; they had a gun.


** Film: [[ItsAllAboutMe Koba]] is a [[AbsoluteXenophobe xenophobic ape]] of the highest order. Initially loyal to Caesar, he was disgusted with the fact that Caesar would bring humans into their territory, so Koba decides to betray his leader and take matters into his own hands. Displaying his callousness by murdering two helpless guards, Koba raids the armory of the human city, returning to shoot Caesar and burn down his former home. Pinning the blame on the humans, Koba rallies the misguided apes into attacking San Francisco. Koba shows his hypocritical nature by cruelly tossing the young Ash to his death when he refuses to kill defenseless people in Caesar's name. Upon [[TyrantTakesTheHelm taking over the city]], Koba imposes his rule by trapping the humans in cages and imprisoning any ape still loyal to Caesar in chains. When finally confronted by Caesar, Koba snaps and starts gunning down his former comrades, even as Caesar is trying to help them. Displaying savagery to human and ape alike, [[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist Koba]] proved to be [[HeWhoFightsMonsters no better than the worst of the humans he despised]].

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** Film: [[ItsAllAboutMe Koba]] is a [[AbsoluteXenophobe xenophobic ape]] of the highest order. Initially loyal to Caesar, he was disgusted with the fact that Caesar would bring humans into their territory, so Koba decides to betray his leader and take matters into his own hands. Displaying his callousness by murdering two helpless guards, Koba raids the armory of the human city, returning to shoot Caesar and burn down his former home. Pinning the blame on the humans, Koba rallies the misguided apes into attacking San Francisco. Koba shows his hypocritical nature by cruelly tossing the young Ash to his death when he refuses to kill defenseless people in Caesar's name. Upon [[TyrantTakesTheHelm taking over the city]], Koba imposes his rule by trapping the humans in cages and imprisoning any ape still loyal to Caesar in chains. When finally confronted by Caesar, Koba snaps and starts gunning down his former comrades, even as Caesar is trying to help them. Displaying savagery to human and ape alike, [[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist Koba]] proved to be [[HeWhoFightsMonsters no better than the worst of the humans he despised]].


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** Though some people do still sympathize with him, especially those who have read the ''Firestorm'' prequel novel which shows his awful backstory of losing his mother and being used for human entertainment ''before'' becoming an abused lab ape.

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