Follow TV Tropes

Following

History YMMV / ColdWaters

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* TearJerker: Sinking below 400 feet (and therefor making you and your crew too deep to rescue) can be rather depressing to think about, especially after reading your XO’s final words to you.

to:

* TearJerker: Sinking below 400 feet (and therefor therefore making you and your crew too deep to rescue) can be rather depressing to think about, especially after reading your XO’s final words to you.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Not ymmv


* DifficultButAwesome:
** USS ''Narwhal'' in the 1984 campaign. She's built on a ''Sturgeon'' class hull, which means she maxes out at 25 knots, which is a shock to players used to the 33 knot ''Los Angeles''--she can't really chase targets down, and it's hard to run away if you're counter-detected. But she uses an experimental natural-circulation-cooled reactor, making her the ''quietest'' American sub in the game, she has the same sensor suite, fire control system, and weapons loadout as the newer ''Los Angeles'' class, and that ''Sturgeon'' class hull was designed to dive deep; her test depth is 1350 feet compared to 1000 feet. Meaning, if you play her right, she goes from "slow and awkward" to "lethal and undetectable" and you can quietly laugh to yourself at 1200 feet below the surface as the enemy's blind-fired torpedoes pass harmlessly 600 feet above your head and they desparately run from your own well-aimed torpedoes.
** On the other end of the spectrum, ''Skipjack'' class in the 1968 campaign. They're the loudest US subs in the game, with some of the worst sensors and fire control, and have the shallowest test depth of all US subs at 700 feet. However, they have 6 forward torpedo tubes compared to the 4 on every other boat, and are the only US subs in that era capable of exceeding 30 knots. This means a competent captain can quite profitably play the "brute force and ignorance" strategy: get into a more-or-less favorable position, volley fire a spread of more torpedoes than the enemy can handle, run like hell, get hidden in the confusion, and repeat. In particular, it's harder to use a ''Skipjack'' against enemy submarines, but she can be much better at sinking convoys and other surface ships.

Changed: -4

Removed: 1017

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:


* TearJerker: Sinking below 400 feet (and therefor making you and your crew too deep to rescue) can be rather depressing to think about, especially after reading your XO’s final words to you.
* TierInducedScrappy: While adequate in the 1968 campaign, in the 1984 campaign the ''Skipjack''-class is just hopelessly out of date and useless compared to the other available subs. All of its systems are behind the times technology-wise and against the more modern Soviet fleet, it just can't hold up. Its speed can be useful when dodging torpedoes, but since the general idea of this game is to not get torpedoes chasing your ass in the first place, it isn't that great, and it's still slower than a ''Los Angeles''. It has 6 torpedo tubes, 2 more than any other American sub in this era, but its outdated fire control system means that only one torpedo can be wire-guided at a time, so it doesn't really get better hit rates than a Los Angeles. And damningly, it's the loudest American sub available with the shallowest test/crush depth. Ultimately, since there are no restrictions placed on what subs you can pick, there's no reason to use a ''Skipjack'' except as a [[SelfImposedChallenge personal challenge]].

to:

* TearJerker: Sinking below 400 feet (and therefor making you and your crew too deep to rescue) can be rather depressing to think about, especially after reading your XO’s final words to you.
* TierInducedScrappy: While adequate in the 1968 campaign, in the 1984 campaign the ''Skipjack''-class is just hopelessly out of date and useless compared to the other available subs. All of its systems are behind the times technology-wise and against the more modern Soviet fleet, it just can't hold up. Its speed can be useful when dodging torpedoes, but since the general idea of this game is to not get torpedoes chasing your ass in the first place, it isn't that great, and it's still slower than a ''Los Angeles''. It has 6 torpedo tubes, 2 more than any other American sub in this era, but its outdated fire control system means that only one torpedo can be wire-guided at a time, so it doesn't really get better hit rates than a Los Angeles. And damningly, it's the loudest American sub available with the shallowest test/crush depth. Ultimately, since there are no restrictions placed on what subs you can pick, there's no reason to use a ''Skipjack'' except as a [[SelfImposedChallenge personal challenge]].
you.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** ASW helicopters. Every enemy warship larger than a frigate carries at least one. Each one carries at least one air-dropped homing torpedo that they can drop ''right on top of you'', they'll follow you around with their dipping sonar and MAD gear, letting every Russian ship know exactly where you are, ''and there's not a goddamned thing you can do about it,'' [[TruthInTelevision since pre-2010s submarines have no anti-air capability]]. Even if you sink their mothership, [[{{Determinator}} they'll still hound you for hours]], preventing you from exiting to the strategic map (luckily, there is a time-compression option). If you're lucky, you'll sink the ships carrying them before they can launch--assuming they weren't patrolling already.

to:

** ASW helicopters. Every enemy warship larger than a frigate carries at least one. Each one carries at least one air-dropped homing torpedo that they can drop ''right on top of you'', they'll follow you around with their dipping sonar and MAD gear, letting every Russian ship know exactly where you are, ''and there's not a goddamned thing you can do about it,'' [[TruthInTelevision since pre-2010s submarines have no anti-air capability]].capability]], as since jets became a thing hand fired flak guns became practically obsolete. Even if you sink their mothership, [[{{Determinator}} they'll still hound you for hours]], preventing you from exiting to the strategic map (luckily, there is a time-compression option). If you're lucky, you'll sink the ships carrying them before they can launch--assuming they weren't patrolling already.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
I’ll have to check the other campaigns, but I added the Trope after loosing the ‘84 campaign.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Tearjerker: Sinking below 400 feet (and therefor making you and your crew too deep to rescue) can be rather depressing to think about, especially after reading your XO’s final words to you.

to:

* Tearjerker: TearJerker: Sinking below 400 feet (and therefor making you and your crew too deep to rescue) can be rather depressing to think about, especially after reading your XO’s final words to you.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* Tearjerker: Sinking below 400 feet (and therefor making you and your crew too deep to rescue) can be rather depressing to think about, especially after reading your XO’s final words to you.

Added: 4503

Changed: 1048

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Any ship with cruise missile launched torpedoes. Think your sub is out of range of enemy counter fire? If one these ships is around, think again.
* DifficultButAwesome: USS ''Narwhal'' in the 1984 campaign. She's built on a ''Sturgeon'' class hull, which means she maxes out at 25 knots, which is a shock to players used to the 33 knot ''Los Angeles''--she can't really chase targets down, and it's hard to run away if you're counter-detected. But she uses an experimental natural-circulation-cooled reactor, making her the ''quietest'' American sub in the game, she has the same sensor suite, fire control system, and weapons loadout as the newer ''Los Angeles'' class, and that ''Sturgeon'' class hull was designed to dive deep; her test depth is 1350 feet compared to 1000 feet. Meaning, if you play her right, she goes from "slow and awkward" to "lethal and undetectable" and you can quietly laugh to yourself at 1200 feet below the surface as the enemy's blind-fired torpedoes pass harmlessly 600 feet above your head and they desparately run from your own well-aimed torpedoes.

to:

** Any ship with cruise missile launched torpedoes. Think your sub is out of range of enemy counter fire? If one these ships is around, think again.
again. And because missiles move much faster than torpedoes, you'll have much less time to react than if they fired a torpedo over the side.
* DifficultButAwesome: DifficultButAwesome:
**
USS ''Narwhal'' in the 1984 campaign. She's built on a ''Sturgeon'' class hull, which means she maxes out at 25 knots, which is a shock to players used to the 33 knot ''Los Angeles''--she can't really chase targets down, and it's hard to run away if you're counter-detected. But she uses an experimental natural-circulation-cooled reactor, making her the ''quietest'' American sub in the game, she has the same sensor suite, fire control system, and weapons loadout as the newer ''Los Angeles'' class, and that ''Sturgeon'' class hull was designed to dive deep; her test depth is 1350 feet compared to 1000 feet. Meaning, if you play her right, she goes from "slow and awkward" to "lethal and undetectable" and you can quietly laugh to yourself at 1200 feet below the surface as the enemy's blind-fired torpedoes pass harmlessly 600 feet above your head and they desparately run from your own well-aimed torpedoes.torpedoes.
** On the other end of the spectrum, ''Skipjack'' class in the 1968 campaign. They're the loudest US subs in the game, with some of the worst sensors and fire control, and have the shallowest test depth of all US subs at 700 feet. However, they have 6 forward torpedo tubes compared to the 4 on every other boat, and are the only US subs in that era capable of exceeding 30 knots. This means a competent captain can quite profitably play the "brute force and ignorance" strategy: get into a more-or-less favorable position, volley fire a spread of more torpedoes than the enemy can handle, run like hell, get hidden in the confusion, and repeat. In particular, it's harder to use a ''Skipjack'' against enemy submarines, but she can be much better at sinking convoys and other surface ships.
* DifficultySpike:
** Because the technology available to both sides is much less advanced, the North Atlantic 1968 campaign can be much more difficult than 1984. While it does help some that Soviet sensors are less sensitive, their torpedoes are not as capable, and their subs are louder and slower, you have all those same disadvantages. Of those disadvantages, your torpedoes are significantly worse.
*** Your first option is the Mk 18 torpedo, which is basically the same thing that the US Navy was using 23 years earlier at the end of UsefulNotes/WorldWarII. Although it's fast and the warhead is enormous and will sink pretty much whatever it hits, it can only be fired from 200 feet deep or higher, it's max range is only 10k yards, and damningly, it is ''not'' a homing torpedo. Once fired it will make one turn to the heading you specify, and then it will run that way until it hits something or runs out of fuel. This means it's utterly worthless against enemy submarines unless they're running on the surface. Against surface ships, any change in enemy course and speed after it is launched will result in a miss. It's also very loud to launch, so the enemy is likely to hear it coming. Thus, in order to realistically kill anything with it, you need to first risk detection by sneaking up to point-blank range, and then fire a spread at different angles to "play the odds"... which leads very quickly to running out of torpedoes entirely.
*** Your other option is the Mk 37 torpedo, which is smaller, electrically-driven and wire/acuoustically-guided. While this is good for hunting enemy submarines, as it is very quiet during launch and while running slowly with wires attached, it has a much smaller warhead and it may take more than one to sink anything but the smallest of targets. Moreover, its speed maxes out at 36 knots, meaning that it will have a hard time catching enemy nuclear-powered subs and it is completely unable to catch most Soviet surface escort ships.
** The year 2000 South China Sea campaign is considerably more difficult than the 1984 North Atlantic Campaign, due to a combination of technology and geography. While you have access to more advanced subs, namely the ''Seawolf'' and 688i ''Los Angeles'', the PLA Navy also has more advanced sonar and wired guided torpedoes. A lot of the combat also takes place in the shallow waters off the Chinese coast, making evasion trickier. There's also the size of the Pacific Ocean; getting to and from your home port of Guam for refit and resupply can easily cost you a mission. It's very easy to miss an invasion force heading to Taiwan or the Spratly Islands because of how close they are to the Chinese ports. There are also a lot more civilian ships, so an itchy trigger finger can cost you a command right quick.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* GeniusBonus: When playable Russian subs were added to scenario mode, American NPC ships were also added to provide opponents for them. If you look closely at their models in the in-game viewer (or in battle if you're gutsy enough to raise the periscope close enough to read them) you can see actual international signal flags flying from the yardarms. They spell out [[spoiler:[[GettingCrapPastTheRadar Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo]] [[ShoutOut Yankee Echo]] [[Film/TeamAmericaWorldPolice Alfa Hotel]][[note]]FUCK YEAH[[/note]]]]

to:

* GeniusBonus: When playable Russian subs were added to scenario mode, American NPC ships were also added to provide opponents for them. If you look closely at their models in the in-game viewer (or in battle if you're gutsy enough to raise the periscope close enough to read them) you can see actual international signal flags flying from the yardarms. They spell out [[spoiler:[[GettingCrapPastTheRadar [[spoiler:[[{{fun with acronyms}} Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo]] [[ShoutOut Yankee Echo]] [[Film/TeamAmericaWorldPolice Alfa Hotel]][[note]]FUCK YEAH[[/note]]]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
IDAS exists, and it would be glorious if the submarines carrying it were actually functional. But yes, submarine-launched AA is now a thing.


** ASW helicopters. Every enemy warship larger than a frigate carries at least one. Each one carries at least one air-dropped homing torpedo that they can drop ''right on top of you'', they'll follow you around with their dipping sonar and MAD gear, letting every Russian ship know exactly where you are, ''and there's not a goddamned thing you can do about it,'' [[TruthInTelevision since modern submarines have no antiair capability]]. Even if you sink their mothership, [[{{Determinator}} they'll still hound you for hours]], preventing you from exiting to the strategic map (luckily, there is a time-compression option). If you're lucky, you'll sink the ships carrying them before they can launch--assuming they weren't patrolling already.

to:

** ASW helicopters. Every enemy warship larger than a frigate carries at least one. Each one carries at least one air-dropped homing torpedo that they can drop ''right on top of you'', they'll follow you around with their dipping sonar and MAD gear, letting every Russian ship know exactly where you are, ''and there's not a goddamned thing you can do about it,'' [[TruthInTelevision since modern pre-2010s submarines have no antiair anti-air capability]]. Even if you sink their mothership, [[{{Determinator}} they'll still hound you for hours]], preventing you from exiting to the strategic map (luckily, there is a time-compression option). If you're lucky, you'll sink the ships carrying them before they can launch--assuming they weren't patrolling already.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* GeniusBonus: When playable Russian subs were added to scenario mode, American NPC ships were also added to provide opponents for them. If you look closely at their models in the in-game viewer (or in battle if you're gutsy enough to raise the periscope close enough to read them) you can see actual international signal flags flying from the yardarms. They spell out [[spoiler:[[GettingCrapPastTheRadar Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo]] [[ShoutOut Yankee Echo]] [[Film/TeamAmericaWorldPolice Alfa Hotel]][[note]]FUCK YEAH[[/note]]]]

Added: 937

Changed: 389

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* DifficultButAwesome: USS ''Narwhal'' in the 1984 campaign. She's built on a ''Sturgeon'' class hull, which means she maxes out at 25 knots, which is a shock to players used to the 33 knot ''Los Angeles''--she can't really chase targets down, and it's hard to run away if you're counter-detected. But she uses an experimental natural-circulation-cooled reactor, making her the ''quietest'' American sub in the game, she has the same sensor suite, fire control system, and weapons loadout as the newer ''Los Angeles'' class, and that ''Sturgeon'' class hull was designed to dive deep; her test depth is 1350 feet compared to 1000 feet. Meaning, if you play her right, she goes from "slow and awkward" to "lethal and undetectable" and you can quietly laugh to yourself at 1200 feet below the surface as the enemy's blind-fired torpedoes pass harmlessly 600 feet above your head and they desparately run from your own well-aimed torpedoes.



* TierInducedScrappy: While adequate in the 1968 campaign, in the 1984 campaign the ''Skipjack''-class is just hopelessly out of date and useless compared to the other available subs. All of its systems are behind the times technology-wise and against the more modern Soviet fleet, it just can't hold up. It's one advantage, its speed, can be useful when dodging torpedoes, but since the general idea of this game is to not get torpedoes chasing your ass in the first place, it isn't that great. Ultimately, since there are no restrictions placed on what subs you can pick, there's no reason to use a ''Skipjack'' except as a [[SelfImposedChallenge personal challenge]].

to:

* TierInducedScrappy: While adequate in the 1968 campaign, in the 1984 campaign the ''Skipjack''-class is just hopelessly out of date and useless compared to the other available subs. All of its systems are behind the times technology-wise and against the more modern Soviet fleet, it just can't hold up. It's one advantage, its speed, Its speed can be useful when dodging torpedoes, but since the general idea of this game is to not get torpedoes chasing your ass in the first place, it isn't that great.great, and it's still slower than a ''Los Angeles''. It has 6 torpedo tubes, 2 more than any other American sub in this era, but its outdated fire control system means that only one torpedo can be wire-guided at a time, so it doesn't really get better hit rates than a Los Angeles. And damningly, it's the loudest American sub available with the shallowest test/crush depth. Ultimately, since there are no restrictions placed on what subs you can pick, there's no reason to use a ''Skipjack'' except as a [[SelfImposedChallenge personal challenge]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Ironically, while the South China Sea's generally very shallow waters make many missions in the 2000 campaign harder than their equivalents in 1984, the advanced submarines available to you actually make TLAM and SEAL missions ''easier''. USS ''Seawolf'' has eight torpedo tubes compared to the four on ''Los Angeles'' class, so you can execute a full eight-missile TLAM strike in one launch and run like hell, instead of having to launch one salvo, hide while reloading, and launch again. Those eight tubes also make it easier to defend yourself on SEAL missions where you have no spare torpedoes. The 688 flights II and III have twelve vertical launch tubes (for missiles only) in addition to their four torpdeo tubes, so you can keep your torpdeoes ready and launch Tomahawks at the same time, and have some antiship missiles left over for your SEAL delivery mission.

to:

** Ironically, while the South China Sea's generally very shallow waters make many missions in the 2000 campaign harder than their equivalents in 1984, the advanced submarines available to you actually make TLAM and SEAL missions ''easier''. USS ''Seawolf'' has eight torpedo tubes compared to the four on ''Los Angeles'' class, so you can execute a full eight-missile TLAM strike in one launch and run like hell, instead of having to launch one salvo, hide while reloading, and launch again. Those eight tubes also make it easier to defend yourself on SEAL missions where you have no spare torpedoes. The 688 flights II and III have twelve vertical launch tubes (for missiles only) in addition to their four torpdeo tubes, so you can keep your torpdeoes ready and launch Tomahawks at the same time, and have some antiship missiles left over for your SEAL delivery mission.mission.
* TierInducedScrappy: While adequate in the 1968 campaign, in the 1984 campaign the ''Skipjack''-class is just hopelessly out of date and useless compared to the other available subs. All of its systems are behind the times technology-wise and against the more modern Soviet fleet, it just can't hold up. It's one advantage, its speed, can be useful when dodging torpedoes, but since the general idea of this game is to not get torpedoes chasing your ass in the first place, it isn't that great. Ultimately, since there are no restrictions placed on what subs you can pick, there's no reason to use a ''Skipjack'' except as a [[SelfImposedChallenge personal challenge]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Ironically, while the South China Sea's generally very shallow waters make many missions in the 2000 campaign harder than their equivalents in 1984, the advanced submarines available to you actually make TLAM and SEAL missions ''easier''. USS ''Seawolf'' has eight torpedo tubes compared to the four on ''Los Angeles'' class, so you can execute a full eight-missile TLAM strike in one launch and run like hell, instead of having to launch one salvo, hide while reloading, and launch again. Those eight tubes also make it easier to defend yourself on SEAL missions where you have no spare torpdedoes. The 688 flights II and III have twelve vertical launch tubes (for missiles only) in addition to their four torpdeo tubes, so you can keep your torpdeoes ready and launch Tomahawks at the same time, and have some antiship missiles left over for your SEAL delivery mission.

to:

** Ironically, while the South China Sea's generally very shallow waters make many missions in the 2000 campaign harder than their equivalents in 1984, the advanced submarines available to you actually make TLAM and SEAL missions ''easier''. USS ''Seawolf'' has eight torpedo tubes compared to the four on ''Los Angeles'' class, so you can execute a full eight-missile TLAM strike in one launch and run like hell, instead of having to launch one salvo, hide while reloading, and launch again. Those eight tubes also make it easier to defend yourself on SEAL missions where you have no spare torpdedoes.torpedoes. The 688 flights II and III have twelve vertical launch tubes (for missiles only) in addition to their four torpdeo tubes, so you can keep your torpdeoes ready and launch Tomahawks at the same time, and have some antiship missiles left over for your SEAL delivery mission.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ThatOneLevel: [=TLAM=] strikes, for reasons noted above, and SEAL insertions. Both require the player to sail deep behind enemy lines with a depleted loadout of torpedoes (the only way to make room for the [=SEALs=] and their gear is to empty the torpedo room) and if you get spotted by an enemy recon plane or satellite, you can expect to have multiple hunter-killer groups on your ass. Being assigned to go to Arkhangelsk is the absolute worst, as it's on the White Sea inlet with only one way in or out, so if you're being hunted by HK groups you ''will'' run into them trying to get out.

to:

* ThatOneLevel: [=TLAM=] strikes, for reasons noted above, and SEAL insertions. Both require the player to sail deep behind enemy lines with a depleted loadout of torpedoes (the only way to make room for the [=SEALs=] and their gear is to empty the torpedo room) and if you get spotted by an enemy recon plane or satellite, you can expect to have multiple hunter-killer groups on your ass. Being assigned to go to Arkhangelsk is the absolute worst, as it's on the White Sea inlet with only one way in or out, so if you're being hunted by HK groups you ''will'' run into them trying to get out.out.
** Ironically, while the South China Sea's generally very shallow waters make many missions in the 2000 campaign harder than their equivalents in 1984, the advanced submarines available to you actually make TLAM and SEAL missions ''easier''. USS ''Seawolf'' has eight torpedo tubes compared to the four on ''Los Angeles'' class, so you can execute a full eight-missile TLAM strike in one launch and run like hell, instead of having to launch one salvo, hide while reloading, and launch again. Those eight tubes also make it easier to defend yourself on SEAL missions where you have no spare torpdedoes. The 688 flights II and III have twelve vertical launch tubes (for missiles only) in addition to their four torpdeo tubes, so you can keep your torpdeoes ready and launch Tomahawks at the same time, and have some antiship missiles left over for your SEAL delivery mission.

Changed: 91

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ThatOneLevel: [=TLAM=] strikes, for reasons noted above, and SEAL insertions. Both require the player to sail deep behind enemy lines with a depleted load out of torpedoes and if you get spotted by an enemy recon plane or satellite, you can expect to have multiple hunter-killer groups on your ass. Being assigned to go to Arkhangelsk is the absolute worst, as it's on the White Sea inlet with only one way in or out, so if you're being hunted by HK groups you ''will'' run into them trying to get out.

to:

* ThatOneLevel: [=TLAM=] strikes, for reasons noted above, and SEAL insertions. Both require the player to sail deep behind enemy lines with a depleted load out loadout of torpedoes (the only way to make room for the [=SEALs=] and their gear is to empty the torpedo room) and if you get spotted by an enemy recon plane or satellite, you can expect to have multiple hunter-killer groups on your ass. Being assigned to go to Arkhangelsk is the absolute worst, as it's on the White Sea inlet with only one way in or out, so if you're being hunted by HK groups you ''will'' run into them trying to get out.

Added: 232

Changed: 158

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** When the game first launched, land-based ASW aircraft were like the helicopters, to unrealistic degrees. They'd harass you in areas beyond their actual range limit and in areas where NATO realistically should have had air superiority. Their sonars were also overpowered, allowing them to far too easily detect the player's submarine. Fortunately, patches altered their ranges and sonar capabilities, making the much less of a threat.

to:

** When the game first launched, land-based ASW aircraft were like the helicopters, to unrealistic degrees. They'd harass you in areas beyond their actual range limit and in areas where NATO realistically should have had air superiority. Their sonars were also overpowered, allowing them to far too easily detect the player's submarine. Fortunately, patches altered their ranges and sonar capabilities, making the much less of a threat. Then the South China Sea campaign came out and, since it involves so much shallow water combat well within Chinese air cover range, made them demonic again.
** Diesel subs. They're just so damn quiet and can easily sneak up on the player.
** Any ship with cruise missile launched torpedoes. Think your sub is out of range of enemy counter fire? If one these ships is around, think again.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ThatOneLevel: [=TLAM=] strikes, for reasons noted above, and SEAL insertions. Both require the player to sail deep behind enemy lines with a depleted load out of torpedoes.

to:

* ThatOneLevel: [=TLAM=] strikes, for reasons noted above, and SEAL insertions. Both require the player to sail deep behind enemy lines with a depleted load out of torpedoes.torpedoes and if you get spotted by an enemy recon plane or satellite, you can expect to have multiple hunter-killer groups on your ass. Being assigned to go to Arkhangelsk is the absolute worst, as it's on the White Sea inlet with only one way in or out, so if you're being hunted by HK groups you ''will'' run into them trying to get out.

Added: 175

Changed: 237

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Cruise missile strike missions are...less than intuitive. The Steam forum is filled with threads just asking how the hell they're supposed to work. Here's an example of a [=TLAM=] mission [[https://youtu.be/m5oHqh9MyCI?t=24m40s bugging out]] on WebVideo/TheMightyJingles due to the use of an out-of-the-box tactic (eg. Sinking a civvie ship, then putting his sub on top of the sinking wreck to mask his position).
** The movement controls were not well received by simulation veterans, with the WASD keys being used for diving, rudder, and speed. Thankfully, Killerfish listened and a new set of controls were patched in August 2017.

to:

** Cruise missile strike missions are...less than intuitive. The Steam forum is filled with threads just asking how the hell they're supposed to work. Here's an example of a [=TLAM=] mission [[https://youtu.be/m5oHqh9MyCI?t=24m40s bugging out]] on WebVideo/TheMightyJingles due to the use of an out-of-the-box tactic (eg. Sinking a civvie ship, then putting his sub on top of the sinking wreck to mask his position).
position). It eventually became so bad that Killerfish patched it so the strikes are automatically considered successful so long as the player launches the appropriate number of missiles. Even then, the missions will ''still'' bug out sometimes.
** The movement controls were not well received by simulation veterans, with the WASD keys being used for diving, rudder, and speed. Thankfully, Killerfish listened and a new set of controls were patched in August 2017.2017.
* ThatOneLevel: [=TLAM=] strikes, for reasons noted above, and SEAL insertions. Both require the player to sail deep behind enemy lines with a depleted load out of torpedoes.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Cruise missile strike missions are...less than intuitive. The Steam forum is filled with threads just asking how the hell they're supposed to work.

to:

** Cruise missile strike missions are...less than intuitive. The Steam forum is filled with threads just asking how the hell they're supposed to work. Here's an example of a [=TLAM=] mission [[https://youtu.be/m5oHqh9MyCI?t=24m40s bugging out]] on WebVideo/TheMightyJingles due to the use of an out-of-the-box tactic (eg. Sinking a civvie ship, then putting his sub on top of the sinking wreck to mask his position).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* DemonicSpiders:
** ASW helicopters. Every enemy warship larger than a frigate carries at least one. Each one carries at least one air-dropped homing torpedo that they can drop ''right on top of you'', they'll follow you around with their dipping sonar and MAD gear, letting every Russian ship know exactly where you are, ''and there's not a goddamned thing you can do about it,'' [[TruthInTelevision since modern submarines have no antiair capability]]. Even if you sink their mothership, [[{{Determinator}} they'll still hound you for hours]], preventing you from exiting to the strategic map (luckily, there is a time-compression option). If you're lucky, you'll sink the ships carrying them before they can launch--assuming they weren't patrolling already.
** When the game first launched, land-based ASW aircraft were like the helicopters, to unrealistic degrees. They'd harass you in areas beyond their actual range limit and in areas where NATO realistically should have had air superiority. Their sonars were also overpowered, allowing them to far too easily detect the player's submarine. Fortunately, patches altered their ranges and sonar capabilities, making the much less of a threat.
* ScrappyMechanic:
** Cruise missile strike missions are...less than intuitive. The Steam forum is filled with threads just asking how the hell they're supposed to work.
** The movement controls were not well received by simulation veterans, with the WASD keys being used for diving, rudder, and speed. Thankfully, Killerfish listened and a new set of controls were patched in August 2017.

Top