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*** His [[HandHidingSleeves too-long coat sleeves]] are described as "being so unwieldy that one feels the urge to roll them up for him"; in his good ending CG he daintily grips the edges of his sleeves ''[[CrushBlush while blushing]]''.
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*** His [[HandHidingSleeves too-long coat sleeves]] sleeves are described as "being so unwieldy that one feels the urge to roll them up for him"; in his good ending CG he daintily grips the edges of his sleeves ''[[CrushBlush while blushing]]''.
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Complete Monster 's don't feel remorse or genuine love. Plus unapproved by the thread
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*** Even if he may seem at first to not care about Joshua, there are signs that very, very deep inside, he cares about him. In Joshua's good ending, the Baron is willing to [[spoiler: shoot Alex to protect his son, believing he had raped him. Even if this would mean losing all his privileges and status, and becoming a common criminal.]] If he didn't care at all, it would have been far easier for him to simply ignore the matter. Rather than a genuinely cruel man, he can be seen as the product of an authoritarian education, coupled with some inability to express love more openly.
to:
*** Even if he may seem at first to not care about about Joshua, there are signs that very, very deep inside, he cares about him. In Joshua's good ending, the Baron is willing to [[spoiler: shoot Alex to protect his son, believing he had raped him. Even if this would mean losing all his privileges and status, and becoming a common criminal.]] If he didn't care at all, it would have been far easier for him to simply ignore the matter. Rather than a genuinely cruel man, he can be seen as the product of an authoritarian education, coupled with some inability to express love more openly.
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Complete Monster 's don't feel remorse or genuine love. Plus unapproved by the thread
Changed line(s) 20 (click to see context) from:
*** Even if he may seem at first a CompleteMonster towards Joshua, there are signs that very, very deep inside, he cares about him. In Joshua's good ending, the Baron is willing to [[spoiler: shoot Alex to protect his son, believing he had raped him. Even if this would mean losing all his privileges and status, and becoming a common criminal.]] If he didn't care at all, it would have been far easier for him to simply ignore the matter. Rather than a genuinely cruel man, he can be seen as the product of an authoritarian education, coupled with some inability to express love more openly.
to:
*** Even if he may seem at first a CompleteMonster towards to not care about Joshua, there are signs that very, very deep inside, he cares about him. In Joshua's good ending, the Baron is willing to [[spoiler: shoot Alex to protect his son, believing he had raped him. Even if this would mean losing all his privileges and status, and becoming a common criminal.]] If he didn't care at all, it would have been far easier for him to simply ignore the matter. Rather than a genuinely cruel man, he can be seen as the product of an authoritarian education, coupled with some inability to express love more openly.
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* CompleteMonster: Baron William Edenic. He abused his own sons to the point of breaking Joshua's leg so badly he could never ride again, neglected Alex's sister Beth even after she had borne him a son, indulged in hunting out of a love for blood and caused injuries to his tenants, wounded guests of the household, and showed [[AristocratsAreEvil apparently no remorse]] for any of it up until [[spoiler:his fury at discovering her infidelity drove Beth to commit suicide out of fear, forcing the Baron to realize that he had actually loved her.]] Even though William regretted that ever after, the change in his personality only extended to his becoming a doting father to Jeremy; he still cared no more for any of his other sons, and especially continued to neglect and mistreat Joshua.
** Even more so, Josephine Edenic. Unlike the Baron, she lacks almost any redeeming quality. At one point, she crosses the MoralEventHorizon when she tries to [[spoiler: kill her own adoptive son with poison, who is an innocent, loving child on top of that.]]
** Even more so, Josephine Edenic. Unlike the Baron, she lacks almost any redeeming quality. At one point, she crosses the MoralEventHorizon when she tries to [[spoiler: kill her own adoptive son with poison, who is an innocent, loving child on top of that.]]
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**Baron William Edenic:
***Even if he may seem at first a CompleteMonster towards Joshua, there are signs that very, very deep inside, he cares about him. In Joshua's good ending, the Baron is willing to [[spoiler: shoot Alex to protect his son, believing he had raped him. Even if this would mean losing all his privileges and status, and becoming a common criminal.]] If he didn't care at all, it would have been far easier for him to simply ignore the matter. Rather than a genuinely cruel man, he can be seen as the product of an authoritarian education, coupled with some inability to express love more openly.
***Even if he may seem at first a CompleteMonster towards Joshua, there are signs that very, very deep inside, he cares about him. In Joshua's good ending, the Baron is willing to [[spoiler: shoot Alex to protect his son, believing he had raped him. Even if this would mean losing all his privileges and status, and becoming a common criminal.]] If he didn't care at all, it would have been far easier for him to simply ignore the matter. Rather than a genuinely cruel man, he can be seen as the product of an authoritarian education, coupled with some inability to express love more openly.
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**Even more so, Josephine Edenic. Unlike the Baron, she lacks almost any redeeming quality. At one point, she crosses the MoralEventHorizon when she tries to [[spoiler: kill her own adoptive son with poison, who is an innocent, loving child on top of that.]]
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** Morris, while being 46 and silver-haired, is introduced via [[TheKlutz tripping into a puddle of mud]] and [[CuteClumsyGirl needing Alex to help him up]], after which his clumsiness is often referenced and occasionally inspires sympathy in Alex.
to:
** Morris, while being 46 and silver-haired, is introduced via [[TheKlutz tripping into a puddle of mud]] and [[CuteClumsyGirl needing Alex to help him up]], after which his up]]. His clumsiness is often referenced and occasionally inspires sympathy in Alex.once becomes so bad due to his being emotionally distraught that it drives Alex to comfort him.
Changed line(s) 27,29 (click to see context) from:
*** Despite his age, due to his monogamous devotion to his long-estranged wife, he is [[PurityPersonified practically innocent in matters of sex or romance]] and is easily flustered by Alex turning on the charm.
*** As one of the most genuinely kind and caring characters, he also ends up [[TheWoobie silently suffering a great deal]] from Alex's revenge while still trying to see the good in Alex, to the point the player desperately wants to hug him.
*** Regardless of all of the above, Morris is a perfectly competent and mature character in terms of his role in the story; it's just that almost everything else about him could've fit a 17-year-old Japanese schoolgirl.
*** As one of the most genuinely kind and caring characters, he also ends up [[TheWoobie silently suffering a great deal]] from Alex's revenge while still trying to see the good in Alex, to the point the player desperately wants to hug him.
*** Regardless of all of the above, Morris is a perfectly competent and mature character in terms of his role in the story; it's just that almost everything else about him could've fit a 17-year-old Japanese schoolgirl.
to:
*** Despite his age, due Due to his monogamous devotion to his long-estranged wife, he is [[PurityPersonified practically innocent in matters of sex or romance]] and is easily flustered by Alex turning on the charm.
*** As one of the most genuinely kind and caring characters, he also ends up[[TheWoobie silently suffering a great deal]] deal from Alex's revenge while still trying to see the good in Alex, to the point the player [[TheWoobie desperately wants to hug him.
him]].
***Regardless of all of the above, Morris is a perfectly legitimately competent and mature character in terms of his role in the story; it's just that almost everything else about him could've fit a 17-year-old Japanese schoolgirl.
*** As one of the most genuinely kind and caring characters, he also ends up
***
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Changed line(s) 25 (click to see context) from:
** Morris, while being 46 and silver-haired, is introduced via [[TheKlutz tripping into a puddle of mud]] and [[CuteClumsyGirl needing Alex to help him up]], after which his clumsiness is often referenced and occasionally inspires sympathy in Alex. His [[HandHidingSleeves too-long coat sleeves]] are described as "being so unwieldy that one feels the urge to roll them up for him"; in his good ending CG he daintily grips the edges of his sleeves ''[[CrushBlush while blushing]]''. Despite his age, due to his monogamous devotion to his long-estranged wife, he is [[PurityPersonified practically innocent in matters of sex or romance]] and is easily flustered by Alex turning on the charm. As one of the most genuinely kind and caring characters, he also ends up [[TheWoobie silently suffering a great deal]] from Alex's revenge while still trying to see the good in Alex, to the point the player desperately wants to hug him.
to:
** Morris, while being 46 and silver-haired, is introduced via [[TheKlutz tripping into a puddle of mud]] and [[CuteClumsyGirl needing Alex to help him up]], after which his clumsiness is often referenced and occasionally inspires sympathy in Alex. Alex.
*** His [[HandHidingSleeves too-long coat sleeves]] are described as "being so unwieldy that one feels the urge to roll them up for him"; in his good ending CG he daintily grips the edges of his sleeves ''[[CrushBlush whileblushing]]''. blushing]]''.
*** Despite his age, due to his monogamous devotion to his long-estranged wife, he is [[PurityPersonified practically innocent in matters of sex or romance]] and is easily flustered by Alex turning on thecharm. charm.
*** As one of the most genuinely kind and caring characters, he also ends up [[TheWoobie silently suffering a great deal]] from Alex's revenge while still trying to see the good in Alex, to the point the player desperately wants to hughim.him.
*** Regardless of all of the above, Morris is a perfectly competent and mature character in terms of his role in the story; it's just that almost everything else about him could've fit a 17-year-old Japanese schoolgirl.
*** His [[HandHidingSleeves too-long coat sleeves]] are described as "being so unwieldy that one feels the urge to roll them up for him"; in his good ending CG he daintily grips the edges of his sleeves ''[[CrushBlush while
*** Despite his age, due to his monogamous devotion to his long-estranged wife, he is [[PurityPersonified practically innocent in matters of sex or romance]] and is easily flustered by Alex turning on the
*** As one of the most genuinely kind and caring characters, he also ends up [[TheWoobie silently suffering a great deal]] from Alex's revenge while still trying to see the good in Alex, to the point the player desperately wants to hug
*** Regardless of all of the above, Morris is a perfectly competent and mature character in terms of his role in the story; it's just that almost everything else about him could've fit a 17-year-old Japanese schoolgirl.
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Changed line(s) 22 (click to see context) from:
* EnsembleDarkHorse: Edward Edenic, the most incorrigibly rebellious of the Edenic siblings. Due to his younger age (19) and obvious crush on Alex which Alex exploited to his advantage, Edward served mainly as an unwitting pawn for Alex to create conflict with his older brothers. The only scene in which he gets to act on his crush for Alex came as the result of one of ''Oscar's'' bad ends. Nevertheless, despite his flaws he was shown to be affectionate for and [[BigBrotherinstinct protective]] of Jeremy, and fans found his attachment to Alex and his character design appealing. This eventually led to Edward getting his own game in the form of a spinoff, where he serves as the main character who picks from two love interests (one of which is Alex).
to:
* EnsembleDarkHorse: Edward Edenic, the most incorrigibly rebellious of the Edenic siblings. Due to his younger age (19) and obvious crush on Alex which Alex exploited to his advantage, Edward served mainly as an unwitting pawn for Alex to create conflict with his older brothers. The only scene in which he gets to act on his crush for Alex came as the result of one of ''Oscar's'' bad ends. Nevertheless, despite his flaws he was shown to be affectionate for and [[BigBrotherinstinct protective]] of Jeremy, and fans found his attachment to Alex and his character design appealing. This eventually led to Edward getting his own game in the form of a spinoff, where he serves as the main character who picks from two love interests (one of which is Alex).Alex).
* {{Moe}}: Two characters meet the requirements. One is unexpected.
** Jeremy's youth, naivete, innocence, and kindness towards everyone all combine to make him a perfect example; he even instills protectiveness in Alex (his uncle), causing Alex to momentarily forget how hell-bent on revenge he had been.
** Morris, while being 46 and silver-haired, is introduced via [[TheKlutz tripping into a puddle of mud]] and [[CuteClumsyGirl needing Alex to help him up]], after which his clumsiness is often referenced and occasionally inspires sympathy in Alex. His [[HandHidingSleeves too-long coat sleeves]] are described as "being so unwieldy that one feels the urge to roll them up for him"; in his good ending CG he daintily grips the edges of his sleeves ''[[CrushBlush while blushing]]''. Despite his age, due to his monogamous devotion to his long-estranged wife, he is [[PurityPersonified practically innocent in matters of sex or romance]] and is easily flustered by Alex turning on the charm. As one of the most genuinely kind and caring characters, he also ends up [[TheWoobie silently suffering a great deal]] from Alex's revenge while still trying to see the good in Alex, to the point the player desperately wants to hug him.
* {{Moe}}: Two characters meet the requirements. One is unexpected.
** Jeremy's youth, naivete, innocence, and kindness towards everyone all combine to make him a perfect example; he even instills protectiveness in Alex (his uncle), causing Alex to momentarily forget how hell-bent on revenge he had been.
** Morris, while being 46 and silver-haired, is introduced via [[TheKlutz tripping into a puddle of mud]] and [[CuteClumsyGirl needing Alex to help him up]], after which his clumsiness is often referenced and occasionally inspires sympathy in Alex. His [[HandHidingSleeves too-long coat sleeves]] are described as "being so unwieldy that one feels the urge to roll them up for him"; in his good ending CG he daintily grips the edges of his sleeves ''[[CrushBlush while blushing]]''. Despite his age, due to his monogamous devotion to his long-estranged wife, he is [[PurityPersonified practically innocent in matters of sex or romance]] and is easily flustered by Alex turning on the charm. As one of the most genuinely kind and caring characters, he also ends up [[TheWoobie silently suffering a great deal]] from Alex's revenge while still trying to see the good in Alex, to the point the player desperately wants to hug him.
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** Alex Wake: Is he [[PayEvilUntoEvil a justified agent of vengeance]], [[CompleteMonster an unforgivable abusive rapist]], [[FreudianExcuse a broken man with a reasonable Freudian Excuse]], [[YouAreNotAlone a wronged boy who just needed a friend]], [[DracoInLeatherPants a Draco in an impeccably tailored 3-piece suit]], [[ManipulativeBastard a sociopathic mastermind]], [[CryForTheDevil a sympathetic demon]], or ''all of the above''?
to:
** Alex Wake: Wake:
*** Is he [[PayEvilUntoEvil a justified agent of vengeance]], [[CompleteMonster an unforgivable abusive rapist]], [[FreudianExcuse a broken man with a reasonable Freudian Excuse]], [[YouAreNotAlone awronged traumatized boy who just needed a friend]], [[DracoInLeatherPants a Draco in an impeccably tailored 3-piece suit]], [[ManipulativeBastard a sociopathic mastermind]], [[CryForTheDevil a sympathetic demon]], or ''all of the above''?above''?
*** Given how readily he shows compassion to Jeremy and how conflicted he can be in nearly every route where a good ending is possible, possibly the most accurate thing to be said for Alex is that he still has the potential to regret his actions and work towards good.
** Oscar Edenic:
*** Does he deserve to suffer for his unkind words, misunderstanding of Alex's motives, and small part in not preventing [[spoiler:Beth's death]] when he was 13-14, or for trying to uphold a family that enabled abuse and caused pain? Or do his subsequent atonement, efforts at doing good, and moral uprightness absolve him even if he is generally ineffectual at enforcing goodness in the rest of his family?
** Joshua Edenic:
*** Is he actually innocent of the sins of his family, to which he turned a blind eye while consistently seeking the affection of his abusive father? Or is Alex even more unforgivable for going after him in his revenge, when Joshua had almost nothing to do with [[spoiler:Beth's death]], had always been one of the most sympathetic of the Edenics, and had personally suffered almost as much as Alex himself had?
*** Is his [[SafetyInIndifference enforced apathy]] completely understandable due to his childhood trauma, or a cowardly way of avoiding reality?
** Morris Bell:
*** Did he [[AccompliceByInaction shirk his responsibility]] to do more for Beth and Joshua by standing up for them against the Baron, as one of the only peers the Baron respected? Or did Alex overestimate the impact of his advice on the Baron, in a situation where he wouldn't have been able to help Beth anyway due to [[spoiler:her own hidden infidelity, postpartum depression, and fears of becoming someone she despised]]?
*** Does his desire to protect the Edenic children by remaining as their doctor justify his turning a blind eye to the Baron's sins and remaining his friend(because challenging the Baron might have gotten him fired)?
*** Is Morris's good end affected by the knowledge that [[spoiler:he had prepared the poisoned wine before even calling Alex to his room, because it must have been in his cabinet from the beginning regardless of Alex's choice]]? Or was he completely justified either way, and his good ending made more emotionally powerful by the fact that despite everything Alex had done, he still tried his best to reach out one last time? Alternatively, is this a case of [[SchrodingersGun Schrodinger's Wine]] where the wine only existed retroactively anyway?
** Theodore Burton:
*** Was his innocent wish tragically warped by circumstances outside of his control, such as his sexuality and social status? Or did he always have a tendency towards extreme obsessive devotion? To what extent could he be said to be responsible for his actions?
** Laurence de Lafayette:
*** Is he a genuine friend to Alex who only wanted to see him happy and released from the specter of revenge? Or did he knowingly destroy the goal of vengeance that gave meaning to Alex's life, so he could swoop in and comfort Alex himself in Alex's moment of weakness?
*** Even aside from Laurence's characterization, several players expressed discontent at having control over the plot taken away from Alex during Laurence's route, as in almost every other route the plot had been driven primarily by Alex's own actions.
*** Is he [[PayEvilUntoEvil a justified agent of vengeance]], [[CompleteMonster an unforgivable abusive rapist]], [[FreudianExcuse a broken man with a reasonable Freudian Excuse]], [[YouAreNotAlone a
*** Given how readily he shows compassion to Jeremy and how conflicted he can be in nearly every route where a good ending is possible, possibly the most accurate thing to be said for Alex is that he still has the potential to regret his actions and work towards good.
** Oscar Edenic:
*** Does he deserve to suffer for his unkind words, misunderstanding of Alex's motives, and small part in not preventing [[spoiler:Beth's death]] when he was 13-14, or for trying to uphold a family that enabled abuse and caused pain? Or do his subsequent atonement, efforts at doing good, and moral uprightness absolve him even if he is generally ineffectual at enforcing goodness in the rest of his family?
** Joshua Edenic:
*** Is he actually innocent of the sins of his family, to which he turned a blind eye while consistently seeking the affection of his abusive father? Or is Alex even more unforgivable for going after him in his revenge, when Joshua had almost nothing to do with [[spoiler:Beth's death]], had always been one of the most sympathetic of the Edenics, and had personally suffered almost as much as Alex himself had?
*** Is his [[SafetyInIndifference enforced apathy]] completely understandable due to his childhood trauma, or a cowardly way of avoiding reality?
** Morris Bell:
*** Did he [[AccompliceByInaction shirk his responsibility]] to do more for Beth and Joshua by standing up for them against the Baron, as one of the only peers the Baron respected? Or did Alex overestimate the impact of his advice on the Baron, in a situation where he wouldn't have been able to help Beth anyway due to [[spoiler:her own hidden infidelity, postpartum depression, and fears of becoming someone she despised]]?
*** Does his desire to protect the Edenic children by remaining as their doctor justify his turning a blind eye to the Baron's sins and remaining his friend(because challenging the Baron might have gotten him fired)?
*** Is Morris's good end affected by the knowledge that [[spoiler:he had prepared the poisoned wine before even calling Alex to his room, because it must have been in his cabinet from the beginning regardless of Alex's choice]]? Or was he completely justified either way, and his good ending made more emotionally powerful by the fact that despite everything Alex had done, he still tried his best to reach out one last time? Alternatively, is this a case of [[SchrodingersGun Schrodinger's Wine]] where the wine only existed retroactively anyway?
** Theodore Burton:
*** Was his innocent wish tragically warped by circumstances outside of his control, such as his sexuality and social status? Or did he always have a tendency towards extreme obsessive devotion? To what extent could he be said to be responsible for his actions?
** Laurence de Lafayette:
*** Is he a genuine friend to Alex who only wanted to see him happy and released from the specter of revenge? Or did he knowingly destroy the goal of vengeance that gave meaning to Alex's life, so he could swoop in and comfort Alex himself in Alex's moment of weakness?
*** Even aside from Laurence's characterization, several players expressed discontent at having control over the plot taken away from Alex during Laurence's route, as in almost every other route the plot had been driven primarily by Alex's own actions.
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* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: Given how deeply characterized most of the cast is, and how controversial Alex's actions are, there are a staggering number of these possible.
** Alex Wake: Is he [[PayEvilUntoEvil a justified agent of vengeance]], [[CompleteMonster an unforgivable abusive rapist]], [[FreudianExcuse a broken man with a reasonable Freudian Excuse]], [[YouAreNotAlone a wronged boy who just needed a friend]], [[DracoInLeatherPants a Draco in an impeccably tailored 3-piece suit]], [[ManipulativeBastard a sociopathic mastermind]], [[CryForTheDevil a sympathetic demon]], or ''all of the above''?
** Alex Wake: Is he [[PayEvilUntoEvil a justified agent of vengeance]], [[CompleteMonster an unforgivable abusive rapist]], [[FreudianExcuse a broken man with a reasonable Freudian Excuse]], [[YouAreNotAlone a wronged boy who just needed a friend]], [[DracoInLeatherPants a Draco in an impeccably tailored 3-piece suit]], [[ManipulativeBastard a sociopathic mastermind]], [[CryForTheDevil a sympathetic demon]], or ''all of the above''?
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* CaptainObviousReveal: In Laurence's route, the revelation that Beth had actually truly loved the Baron, and hadn't been tricked into coming to Ashgrove in any way. Flashbacks shown to readers long before then would already have suggested that their relationship was more affectionate (before the Baron lost interest for a while) than Alex-as-a-child had thought it was.
** This could be chalked up to Alex being an [[UnreliableNarrator unreliable narrator]] where his sister and the Baron was involved, especially as he had been only 12-13 at the time and may not have understood the nuances of adult relationships.
** This could be chalked up to Alex being an [[UnreliableNarrator unreliable narrator]] where his sister and the Baron was involved, especially as he had been only 12-13 at the time and may not have understood the nuances of adult relationships.
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* CompleteMonster: Baron William Edenic. He abused his own sons to the point of breaking Joshua's leg so badly he could never ride again, neglected Alex's sister Beth even after she had borne him a son, indulged in hunting out of a love for blood and injured tenants on his lands, wounded guests of the household, and showed [[AristocratsAreEvil apparently no remorse]] for any of it up until [[spoiler:his fury at discovering her infidelity drove Beth to commit suicide out of fear, forcing the Baron to realize that he had actually loved her.]] Even though William regretted that ever after, the change in his personality only extended to his becoming a doting father to Jeremy; he still cared no more for any of his other sons, and especially continued to neglect and mistreat Joshua.
to:
* CompleteMonster: Baron William Edenic. He abused his own sons to the point of breaking Joshua's leg so badly he could never ride again, neglected Alex's sister Beth even after she had borne him a son, indulged in hunting out of a love for blood and injured tenants on caused injuries to his lands, tenants, wounded guests of the household, and showed [[AristocratsAreEvil apparently no remorse]] for any of it up until [[spoiler:his fury at discovering her infidelity drove Beth to commit suicide out of fear, forcing the Baron to realize that he had actually loved her.]] Even though William regretted that ever after, the change in his personality only extended to his becoming a doting father to Jeremy; he still cared no more for any of his other sons, and especially continued to neglect and mistreat Joshua.
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* CompleteMonster: Baron William Edenic. He abused his own sons to the point of breaking Joshua's leg so badly he could never ride again, neglected Alex's sister Beth even after she had borne him a son, indulged in hunting out of a love for blood and injured tenants on his lands, wounded guests of the household, and showed [[AristocratsAreEvil apparently no remorse]] for any of it up until [[spoiler:his fury at discovering her infidelity drove Beth to commit suicide out of fear, forcing the Baron to realize that he had actually loved her.]] Even though William regretted that ever after, the change in his personality only extended to his becoming a doting father to Jeremy; he still cared no more for any of his other sons, and especially continued to neglect and mistreat Joshua.
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* EnsembleDarkHorse: Edward Edenic, the most incorrigibly rebellious of the Edenic siblings. Due to his younger age (19) and obvious crush on Alex which Alex exploited to his advantage, Edward served mainly as an unwitting pawn for Alex to create conflict with his older brothers. The only scene in which he gets to act on his crush for Alex came as the result of one of ''Oscar's'' bad ends. Nevertheless, despite his flaws he was shown to be affectionate for and [[BigBrotherinstinct protective]] of Jeremy, and fans found his attachment to Alex and his character design appealing. This eventually led to Edward getting his own game in the form of a spinoff, where he serves as the main character who picks from two love interests (one of which is Alex).
