Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Deleted line(s) 2,6 (click to see context) :
* DeliberateValuesDissonance:
** The fact that Thomas Seymour was taken seriously as a suitor by members of Elizabeth's household who had also been shocked by his grooming of her has made viewers uncomfortable.
** Mary and Edward enjoying some sibling bonding over cockfighting is cringeworthy to a modern eye, but it was popular Tudor entertainment.
** Pedro faces racism that was unfortunately very typical of the period. Even friendly characters say ignorant things, like Princess Mary wondering aloud if Pedro is related to one of her mothers Black ladies-in-waiting.
** The burning at the stake, which Edward orders, is portrayed as hideous but Edward clearly sees it as a necessary evil to save the souls of his people. This was common belief of both Protestants and Catholics of the time.
** The fact that Thomas Seymour was taken seriously as a suitor by members of Elizabeth's household who had also been shocked by his grooming of her has made viewers uncomfortable.
** Mary and Edward enjoying some sibling bonding over cockfighting is cringeworthy to a modern eye, but it was popular Tudor entertainment.
** Pedro faces racism that was unfortunately very typical of the period. Even friendly characters say ignorant things, like Princess Mary wondering aloud if Pedro is related to one of her mothers Black ladies-in-waiting.
** The burning at the stake, which Edward orders, is portrayed as hideous but Edward clearly sees it as a necessary evil to save the souls of his people. This was common belief of both Protestants and Catholics of the time.
Deleted line(s) 16 (click to see context) :
* OutOfFocus: One reason for the series's failure to gain an audience was that the titular character, Elizabeth I, was one of the least interesting in the cast despite the historic Elizabeth being one of the most fascinating women in history. The show's problematic take on Elizabeth's relationship with her stepfather made her look shallow and the writing didn't really nail her character. Supporting characters like Mary, Edward VI and Edward Seymour were far more interesting and well-written, despite getting less screen time. Some critics speculated had the show been titled something less focused on Elizabeth, it might have survived.
Changed line(s) 25 (click to see context) from:
** Jane Grey. The socially awkward Jane is the pawn of everyone around her. She is humiliated in front of her crush who is the king, loves Catherine and Thomas far more than they care for her, and history tells us that none of this will end well for her.
to:
** Jane Grey. The socially awkward Jane is the pawn of everyone around her. She is humiliated in front of her crush who is the king, loves Catherine and Thomas far more than they care for her, and history tells us that none of this will end well for her.her.
* VanillaProtagonist: One reason for the series's failure to gain an audience was that the titular character, Elizabeth I, was one of the least interesting in the cast despite the historic Elizabeth being one of the most fascinating women in history. The show's problematic take on Elizabeth's relationship with her stepfather made her look shallow and the writing didn't really nail her character. Supporting characters like Mary, Edward VI and Edward Seymour were far more interesting and well-written, despite getting less screen time. Some critics speculated had the show been titled something less focused on Elizabeth, it might have survived.
* VanillaProtagonist: One reason for the series's failure to gain an audience was that the titular character, Elizabeth I, was one of the least interesting in the cast despite the historic Elizabeth being one of the most fascinating women in history. The show's problematic take on Elizabeth's relationship with her stepfather made her look shallow and the writing didn't really nail her character. Supporting characters like Mary, Edward VI and Edward Seymour were far more interesting and well-written, despite getting less screen time. Some critics speculated had the show been titled something less focused on Elizabeth, it might have survived.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 5 (click to see context) from:
** Pedro faces racism that was unfortunately very typical of the period. Even friendly characters say ignorant things, like Princess Mary wondering aloud if Pedro is related to one of her black ladies-in-waiting.
to:
** Pedro faces racism that was unfortunately very typical of the period. Even friendly characters say ignorant things, like Princess Mary wondering aloud if Pedro is related to one of her black mothers Black ladies-in-waiting.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 17 (click to see context) from:
* SpiritualSuccessor: Despite far more historically accurate costumes, the tonal similarities with ''Series/TheTudors'' have inspired some fans to call the show a fan fiction sixth season of ''The Tudors''.
to:
* SpiritualSuccessor: ProtagonistTitleFallacy: Elizabeth does get a lot of screen time, but so do Mary, Edward VI and Edward Seymour, all who are far more interesting characters.
* SpiritualSuccessor:
** Despite far more historically accurate costumes, the tonal similarities with ''Series/TheTudors'' have inspired some fans to call the show a fan fiction sixth season of ''TheTudors''.Tudors''.
** The show attracts a similar audience to another Starz show, ''Series/TheWhiteQueen'' with the added similarity of giving much-maligned historical figures a rare-for-television HistoricalHeroUpgrade, with Mary Tudor and UsefulNotes/RichardIII.
* SpiritualSuccessor:
** Despite far more historically accurate costumes, the tonal similarities with ''Series/TheTudors'' have inspired some fans to call the show a fan fiction sixth season of ''The
** The show attracts a similar audience to another Starz show, ''Series/TheWhiteQueen'' with the added similarity of giving much-maligned historical figures a rare-for-television HistoricalHeroUpgrade, with Mary Tudor and UsefulNotes/RichardIII.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* OutOfFocus: One reason for the series's failure to gain an audience was that the titular character, Elizabeth I, was one of the least interesting in the cast despite the historic Elizabeth being one of the most fascinating women in history. The show's problematic take on Elizabeth's relationship with her stepfather made her look shallow and the writing didn't really nail her character. Supporting characters like Mary, Edward VI and Edward Seymour were far more interesting and well-written, despite getting less screen time. Some critics speculated had the show been titled something less focused on Elizabeth, it might have survived.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* FanPreferredCouple: Despite Thomas/Elizabeth getting far more screen time and at least by many being perceived as the show's main romance, fans far preferred Elizabeth/Robert, as Robert's unrequited love for Elizabeth and age-appropriateness was far more appealing to many.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 17,18 (click to see context) from:
** "Duke Somerset. You have no enemies in this crowd today."
** Edward Seymour apologizing to Elizabeth for how she was treated by Thomas.
** Edward Seymour apologizing to Elizabeth for how she was treated by Thomas.
to:
** "Duke Somerset. You have no enemies in this crowd today."
" TruthInTelevision since Somerset's heroism is debatable, but he was very popular among the common people and the crowd at his execution was firmly on his side and there was hope for a pardon until the last moment.
** Edward Seymour apologizing to Elizabeth for how she was treated by Thomas.
** Edward Seymour apologizing to Elizabeth for how she was treated by Thomas.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 16 (click to see context) from:
* Tearjerker
to:
* Tearjerker{{Tearjerker}}
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* Tearjerker
** "Duke Somerset. You have no enemies in this crowd today."
** Edward Seymour apologizing to Elizabeth for how she was treated by Thomas.
** "Duke Somerset. You have no enemies in this crowd today."
** Edward Seymour apologizing to Elizabeth for how she was treated by Thomas.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* AlasPoorVillain: Edward Seymour, who starts the series at least appearing as a villain, goes to his death as the only major player who cared about England above all.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
** After Season 1, Episode 2 aired there was a backlash over the perception that Elizabeth and Thomas's relationship was being portrayed not as predatory but as a doomed romance. Claire Ridgeway, the author of several works of popular Tudor history and the owner of The Anne Boleyn Files website, was particularly vocal in her criticism. Afterwards, actor Tom Cullen and series creator Anya Reiss reached out to Ridgeway and both claimed that the show's intent was not to portray the relationship as a romantic one, but rather show that Elizabeth may have seen it that way in the moment. Cullen, especially, made it clear that he sees his character as a predator. Since in real life, Thomas Seymour's behavior toward Elizabeth was seen as inappropriate, and yet people took him seriously as a suitor for Elizabeth not long after, the issue is somewhat historically muddy.
to:
** After Season 1, Episode 2 aired there was a backlash over the perception The fact that Elizabeth and Thomas's relationship was being portrayed not as predatory but as a doomed romance. Claire Ridgeway, the author of several works of popular Tudor history and the owner of The Anne Boleyn Files website, was particularly vocal in her criticism. Afterwards, actor Tom Cullen and series creator Anya Reiss reached out to Ridgeway and both claimed that the show's intent was not to portray the relationship as a romantic one, but rather show that Elizabeth may have seen it that way in the moment. Cullen, especially, made it clear that he sees his character as a predator. Since in real life, Thomas Seymour's behavior toward Elizabeth Seymour was seen as inappropriate, and yet people took him taken seriously as a suitor for Elizabeth not long after, the issue is somewhat historically muddy.by members of Elizabeth's household who had also been shocked by his grooming of her has made viewers uncomfortable.
Added DiffLines:
* NoYay: After Season 1, Episode 2 aired there was a backlash over the perception that Elizabeth and Thomas's relationship was being portrayed not as predatory but as a doomed romance. Claire Ridgeway, the author of several works of popular Tudor history and the owner of The Anne Boleyn Files website, was particularly vocal in her criticism. Afterwards, actor Tom Cullen and series creator Anya Reiss reached out to Ridgeway and both claimed that the show's intent was not to portray the relationship as a romantic one, but rather show that Elizabeth may have seen it that way in the moment. Cullen, especially, made it clear that he sees his character as a predator. Since in real life, Thomas Seymour's behavior toward Elizabeth was seen as inappropriate, and yet people took him seriously as a suitor for Elizabeth not long after, the issue is somewhat historically muddy.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added line(s) 6 (click to see context) :
** The burning at the stake, which Edward orders, is portrayed as hideous but Edward clearly sees it as a necessary evil to save the souls of his people. This was common belief of both Protestants and Catholics of the time.
Deleted line(s) 6 (click to see context) :
** The burning at the stake, which Edward orders, is portrayed as hideous but Edward clearly sees it as a necessary evil to save the souls of his people. This was common belief of both Protestants and Catholics of the time.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** The burning at the stake, which Edward orders, is portrayed as hideous but Edward clearly sees it as a necessary evil to save the souls of his people. This was common belief of both Protestants and Catholics of the time.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
** Princess Mary. Discriminated against for being part of a Catholic minority at court, Mary is isolated from her beloved brother and sister, and treated to a viciously anti-Catholic masque. At the start of the series, all she wants is peace between her and her family. But she's not without her mean side, making some very unkind remarks to Elizabeth as time goes on.
* MoralEventHorizon: Edward and John Dudley cross it when they burn a priest at the stake for refusing to convert to Protestantism.
* MoralEventHorizon: Edward and John Dudley cross it when they burn a priest at the stake for refusing to convert to Protestantism.
Changed line(s) 12,13 (click to see context) from:
** Jane Grey. The socially awkward Jane is the pawn of everyone around her. She is humiliated in front of her crush who is the king, loves Catherine and Thomas far more than they care for her, and history tells us that none of this will end well for her.
** Princess Mary. Discriminated against for being part of a Catholic minority at court, Mary is isolated from her beloved brother and sister, and treated to a viciously anti-Catholic masque. At the start of the series, all she wants is peace between her and her family.
** Princess Mary. Discriminated against for being part of a Catholic minority at court, Mary is isolated from her beloved brother and sister, and treated to a viciously anti-Catholic masque. At the start of the series, all she wants is peace between her and her family.
to:
** Jane Grey. The socially awkward Jane is the pawn of everyone around her. She is humiliated in front of her crush who is the king, loves Catherine and Thomas far more than they care for her, and history tells us that none of this will end well for her.
** Princess Mary. Discriminated against for being part of a Catholic minority at court, Mary is isolated from her beloved brother and sister, and treated to a viciously anti-Catholic masque. At the start of the series, all she wants is peace between her and her family.her.
** Princess Mary. Discriminated against for being part of a Catholic minority at court, Mary is isolated from her beloved brother and sister, and treated to a viciously anti-Catholic masque. At the start of the series, all she wants is peace between her and her family.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* SpiritualSuccessor: Despite far more historically accurate costumes, the tonal similarities with ''Series/TheTudors'' have inspired some fans to call the show a fan fiction sixth season of ''The Tudors''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** Pedro faces racism that was unfortunately very typical of the period. Even friendly characters say ignorant things, like Princess Mary wondering aloud if Pedro is related to one of her black ladies-in-waiting.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* EnsembleDarkHorse
** Creator/RomolaGarai as Princess Mary. Normally, Mary is portrayed as pitiable or evil or some combination of the two. Here, Mary is a complex, sometimes wise, sometimes stubborn, lonely woman who develops a romantic friendship with Sir Pedro, and has caused more than one viewer to declare that the show should be called "Becoming Mary." This is made more poignant given her storyline is basically a StartOfDarkness one.
** Creator/RomolaGarai as Princess Mary. Normally, Mary is portrayed as pitiable or evil or some combination of the two. Here, Mary is a complex, sometimes wise, sometimes stubborn, lonely woman who develops a romantic friendship with Sir Pedro, and has caused more than one viewer to declare that the show should be called "Becoming Mary." This is made more poignant given her storyline is basically a StartOfDarkness one.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added line(s) 5 (click to see context) :
* JerkassWoobie
** King Edward. He's hot-tempered, petulant, and a religious bigot. He's also a child, one who never knew his mother, barely knew his father, and is manipulated by his uncles. Placed in a role way beyond his years, we are reminded that Edward is ultimately still a child when he tearfully cradles his dead pet, or is brought to sobs when trying to reconcile with his sister.
** Princess Elizabeth definitely has a mean streak, setting Jane up for public humiliation in Episode 2. She also has been raised to feel ashamed of her mother, who was executed when she was two, hardly knew her father, and is groomed by her predatory step-father.
** King Edward. He's hot-tempered, petulant, and a religious bigot. He's also a child, one who never knew his mother, barely knew his father, and is manipulated by his uncles. Placed in a role way beyond his years, we are reminded that Edward is ultimately still a child when he tearfully cradles his dead pet, or is brought to sobs when trying to reconcile with his sister.
** Princess Elizabeth definitely has a mean streak, setting Jane up for public humiliation in Episode 2. She also has been raised to feel ashamed of her mother, who was executed when she was two, hardly knew her father, and is groomed by her predatory step-father.
Changed line(s) 5 (click to see context) from:
** Jane Grey. The socially awkward Jane is the pawn of everyone around her. She is humiliated in front of her crush who is the king, loves Catherine and Thomas far more than they care for her, and history tells us that none of this will end well for her.
to:
** Jane Grey. The socially awkward Jane is the pawn of everyone around her. She is humiliated in front of her crush who is the king, loves Catherine and Thomas far more than they care for her, and history tells us that none of this will end well for her.her.
** Princess Mary. Discriminated against for being part of a Catholic minority at court, Mary is isolated from her beloved brother and sister, and treated to a viciously anti-Catholic masque. At the start of the series, all she wants is peace between her and her family.
** Princess Mary. Discriminated against for being part of a Catholic minority at court, Mary is isolated from her beloved brother and sister, and treated to a viciously anti-Catholic masque. At the start of the series, all she wants is peace between her and her family.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** Mary and Edward enjoying some sibling bonding over cockfighting is cringeworthy to a modern eye, but it was popular Tudor entertainment.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
** After Season 1, Episode 2 aired there was a backlash over the perception that Elizabeth and Thomas's relationship was being portrayed not as predatory but as a doomed romance. Claire Ridgeway, the author of several works of popular Tudor history and the owner of The Anne Boleyn Files website, was particularly vocal in her criticism. Afterwards, actor Tom Cullen and series creator Anya Reiss reached out to Ridgeway and both claimed that the show's intent was not to portray the relationship as a romantic one, but rather show that Elizabeth may have seen it that way in the moment. Cullen, especially, made it clear that he sees his character as a predator. Since in real life, Thomas Seymour's behavior toward Elizabeth was seen as inappropriate, and yet people took him seriously as a suitor for Elizabeth not long after, the issue is somewhat historically muddy.
to:
** After Season 1, Episode 2 aired there was a backlash over the perception that Elizabeth and Thomas's relationship was being portrayed not as predatory but as a doomed romance. Claire Ridgeway, the author of several works of popular Tudor history and the owner of The Anne Boleyn Files website, was particularly vocal in her criticism. Afterwards, actor Tom Cullen and series creator Anya Reiss reached out to Ridgeway and both claimed that the show's intent was not to portray the relationship as a romantic one, but rather show that Elizabeth may have seen it that way in the moment. Cullen, especially, made it clear that he sees his character as a predator. Since in real life, Thomas Seymour's behavior toward Elizabeth was seen as inappropriate, and yet people took him seriously as a suitor for Elizabeth not long after, the issue is somewhat historically muddy.muddy.
* TheWoobie
** Jane Grey. The socially awkward Jane is the pawn of everyone around her. She is humiliated in front of her crush who is the king, loves Catherine and Thomas far more than they care for her, and history tells us that none of this will end well for her.
* TheWoobie
** Jane Grey. The socially awkward Jane is the pawn of everyone around her. She is humiliated in front of her crush who is the king, loves Catherine and Thomas far more than they care for her, and history tells us that none of this will end well for her.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 1 (click to see context) from:
* ValuesDissonance:
to:
* ValuesDissonance: DeliberateValuesDissonance:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
** After Season 1, Episode 2 aired there was a backlash over the perception that Elizabeth and Thomas's relationship was being portrayed not as predatory but as a doomed romance. Claire Ridgeway, the author of several works of popular Tudor history and the owner of The Anne Boleyn Files website, was particularly vocal in her criticism. Afterwards, actor Tom Cullen and series creator Anya Reiss reached out to Ridgeway and both claimed that the show's intent was not to portray the relationship as a romantic one, but rather show that Elizabeth may have seen it that way in the moment. Cullen, especially, made it clear that he sees his character as a predator. Since historically, Thomas Seymour's behavior toward Elizabeth was seen as inappropriate, and yet people took him seriously as a suitor for Elizabeth not long after, muddies the issue historically.
to:
** After Season 1, Episode 2 aired there was a backlash over the perception that Elizabeth and Thomas's relationship was being portrayed not as predatory but as a doomed romance. Claire Ridgeway, the author of several works of popular Tudor history and the owner of The Anne Boleyn Files website, was particularly vocal in her criticism. Afterwards, actor Tom Cullen and series creator Anya Reiss reached out to Ridgeway and both claimed that the show's intent was not to portray the relationship as a romantic one, but rather show that Elizabeth may have seen it that way in the moment. Cullen, especially, made it clear that he sees his character as a predator. Since historically, in real life, Thomas Seymour's behavior toward Elizabeth was seen as inappropriate, and yet people took him seriously as a suitor for Elizabeth not long after, muddies the issue historically.is somewhat historically muddy.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* ValuesDissonance:
** After Season 1, Episode 2 aired there was a backlash over the perception that Elizabeth and Thomas's relationship was being portrayed not as predatory but as a doomed romance. Claire Ridgeway, the author of several works of popular Tudor history and the owner of The Anne Boleyn Files website, was particularly vocal in her criticism. Afterwards, actor Tom Cullen and series creator Anya Reiss reached out to Ridgeway and both claimed that the show's intent was not to portray the relationship as a romantic one, but rather show that Elizabeth may have seen it that way in the moment. Cullen, especially, made it clear that he sees his character as a predator. Since historically, Thomas Seymour's behavior toward Elizabeth was seen as inappropriate, and yet people took him seriously as a suitor for Elizabeth not long after, muddies the issue historically.
** After Season 1, Episode 2 aired there was a backlash over the perception that Elizabeth and Thomas's relationship was being portrayed not as predatory but as a doomed romance. Claire Ridgeway, the author of several works of popular Tudor history and the owner of The Anne Boleyn Files website, was particularly vocal in her criticism. Afterwards, actor Tom Cullen and series creator Anya Reiss reached out to Ridgeway and both claimed that the show's intent was not to portray the relationship as a romantic one, but rather show that Elizabeth may have seen it that way in the moment. Cullen, especially, made it clear that he sees his character as a predator. Since historically, Thomas Seymour's behavior toward Elizabeth was seen as inappropriate, and yet people took him seriously as a suitor for Elizabeth not long after, muddies the issue historically.
