History YMMV / BatmanBegins

23rd Aug '16 10:10:31 PM TimeLordVictorious
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Added DiffLines:

** Averted with Creator/LiamNeeson as Henri Ducard/[[spoiler: Ra's Al Ghul.]] Liam Neeson already fit the mentor type due to usually playing good guys, [[spoiler: but gets a chance to show off his abilities to play the villain after TheReveal]].
23rd Aug '16 8:57:11 AM DeadlyAssassin
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* BrokenBase: "I won't kill you, [[spoiler:but I don't have to save you." Justified loophole to Batman's one rule, or cruel decision that equals the same as murder?[[note]]Though from a legal perspective, no, it isn't murder – since he was trying to stop a highly dangerous terrorist attempting to set off a chemical weapon, he could have beaten him to a bloody pulp and snapped his neck, and the law likely would not have held him responsible if that's what Batman considered necessary to stop a dangerous madman.[[/note]] ]]

to:

* BrokenBase: "I won't kill you, [[spoiler:but I don't have to save you." Justified loophole to Batman's one rule, or cruel decision that equals the same as murder?[[note]]Though from a legal perspective, no, it isn't murder – since he was trying to stop a highly dangerous terrorist attempting to set off a chemical weapon, he could have beaten him to a bloody pulp and snapped his neck, and the law likely would not have held him responsible if that's what Batman considered necessary to stop a dangerous madman.[[/note]] ]]murder?]]
8th Aug '16 6:34:06 PM TheNewBig
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* DesignatedHero: Batman's recklessness could rival Superman's in ''Film/ManOfSteel.'' His best solution to preventing an execution in the League of Shadows was to set the dojo on fire, killing [[spoiler:the fake Ra's Al Ghul and God knows how many other people]], he causes a lot of collateral damage with the Tumbler, and he [[spoiler:intentionally leaves Ra's Al Ghul for dead rather than arresting him]]. This is especially jarring, because the Batman in this film claimed to have a ThouShaltNotKill rule. This is something that thankfully gets better in ''Film/TheDarkKnight''.
* DesignatedVillain: William Earle, the Wayne Enterprises CEO. As [[http://www.centives.net/S/2012/the-ceo-wayne-enterprises-deserves/ Centives this article discusses]], most of the business decisions he makes during the film are perfectly legitimate, he seems to honestly care for the Wayne family but balances it with intelligent business management, and we have no evidence he's helping the villains or doing anything else illegal. The one wrong thing he does is fire Fox and try to cover up the paper trail linking the stolen microwave emitter to Wayne Enterprises, but that alone doesn't justify Bruce's decision to fire him without telling him.

to:

* DesignatedHero: Batman's recklessness could rival Superman's in ''Film/ManOfSteel.'' His best solution to preventing an execution in the League of Shadows was to set the dojo on fire, killing [[spoiler:the fake Ra's Al Ghul and God knows how many other people]], he causes a lot of collateral damage with the Tumbler, and he [[spoiler:intentionally leaves Ra's Al Ghul for dead rather than arresting him]]. This is especially jarring, because the Batman in this film claimed to have a ThouShaltNotKill rule. This is something that thankfully gets better in ''Film/TheDarkKnight''.
* DesignatedVillain: William Earle, the Wayne Enterprises CEO. As [[http://www.centives.net/S/2012/the-ceo-wayne-enterprises-deserves/ Centives this article discusses]], most of the business decisions he makes during the film are perfectly legitimate, he seems to honestly care for the Wayne family but balances it with intelligent business management, and we have no evidence he's helping the villains or doing anything else illegal. The one wrong thing he does is fire Fox and try to cover up the paper trail linking the stolen microwave emitter to Wayne Enterprises, but Enterprises.
** It should be noted, however,
that alone despite not doing anything objectively ''wrong'' per se, he's still trying to lead the company down a path that Bruce obviously doesn't justify Bruce's decision want for his father's legacy. Firing an employee simply for asking questions about something he's specifically been ''ordered to fire him without telling him.take care'' of was also a real dick move on his part.
* DracoInLeatherPants: Joe Chill seems to get this a lot, with many calling attention to the fact that he doesn't appear to actively ''enjoy'' his needless murder of a boy's parents in front of him, even going so far as to call the deaths an ''accident.'' Even ''if'' that could apply to Thomas, which, granted, is debatable, Martha's death was anything but unintentional.


Added DiffLines:

** Chill gunning down Martha Wayne simply for screaming.
31st Jul '16 1:00:27 AM timotaka
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** Jonathan Crane is traditionally portrayed as a lanky, ugly man, so having pretty boy Cillian Murphy play him can be jarring for comic fans. However, it works and arguably Crane's insanity is even more disturbing when covered up by a pretty face.

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** Jonathan Crane is traditionally portrayed as a lanky, ugly man, man (That's even where the name comes from!), so having pretty boy Cillian Murphy play him can be jarring for comic fans. However, it works and arguably Crane's insanity is even more disturbing when covered up by a pretty face.
9th Jul '16 4:24:04 PM Anddrix
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* BaseBreaker: Rachel Dawes. Is she the moral center of the film and justified in [[spoiler:not dating Bruce until his time as Batman is done]], or is she a preachy PuritySue who seems to be in love with an idealization of Bruce, not the real man (and vice versa – Bruce is in love with an idealization of Rachel but not the woman herself)? This only upped with ''The Dark Knight''.

to:

* BaseBreaker: BaseBreakingCharacter: Rachel Dawes. Is she the moral center of the film and justified in [[spoiler:not dating Bruce until his time as Batman is done]], or is she a preachy PuritySue who seems to be in love with an idealization of Bruce, not the real man (and vice versa – Bruce is in love with an idealization of Rachel but not the woman herself)? This only upped with ''The Dark Knight''.
8th Jul '16 4:21:06 PM Dancedom
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** Katie Holmes as Rachel. Not that she does a bad job per se, but rather that she looks way too young to sell the hardened career woman seeking justice that she's supposed to be. After all, Rachel is supposed to be around 30, but in 2005, Holmes was still in her early 20s.

to:

** Katie Holmes as Rachel. Not that she does a bad job per se, but rather that she looks way too young to sell the hardened career woman seeking justice that she's supposed to be. After all, Rachel is supposed to be around 30, but in 2005, Holmes was still in her early 20s.mid-20s.
7th Jul '16 7:41:34 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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* TheyJustDidntCare: Not to the film itself, but the Creator/ABCFamily promo falls into this entirely. The people who made the promo had a major case of ComicallyMissingThePoint with the much-maligned voice-over line "He fights for family, and lives for love." [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSe6tvfedb0 See for yourself]].
25th Jun '16 6:12:02 AM MCanter89
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* BaseBreaker: Rachel Dawes. Is she the moral center of the film, and justified in [[spoiler:not dating Bruce until his time as Batman is done]], or a preachy Purity Sue who seems to be in love with an idealization of Bruce, not the real man (and vice versa - Bruce is in love with an idealization of Rachel but not the woman herself)? This only upped with ''The Dark Knight''.
** It doesn't help that she's apparently meant to be a tough, crusading career woman but due to Katie Holmes feeling more like a high school cheerleader trying to hang out with the big kids, Rachel ends up feeling more like a naive twit who's in way over her head.
* BrokenBase: "I won't kill you, [[spoiler:but I don't have to save you." Justified loophole to Batman's one rule, or cruel decision that equals the same as murder? [[note]] Though from a legal perspective, no it isn't murder- since he was trying to stop a highly dangerous terrorist attempting to set off a chemical weapon, he could have beaten him to a bloody pulp and snapped his neck and the law likely would not have held him responsible if that's what Batman considered necessary to stop a dangerous madman [[/note]] ]]
* CriticalDissonance[=/=]VindicatedByHistory: Despite an overall Website/RottenTomatoes approval rating of 85%, ''Batman Begins'' holds a rather mixed percentage of 62% from the site's Top Critics (i.e., main news publications and magazines), with critics jarred by the serious tone of the film, although some like Creator/RogerEbert gave the film rave reviews. Since then, the film has become highly regarded in light of the genre becoming more respected within the industry, particularly once people saw what ''Film/TheDarkKnight'' built on top of the foundation of ''Begins''.

to:

* BaseBreaker: Rachel Dawes. Is she the moral center of the film, film and justified in [[spoiler:not dating Bruce until his time as Batman is done]], or is she a preachy Purity Sue PuritySue who seems to be in love with an idealization of Bruce, not the real man (and vice versa - Bruce is in love with an idealization of Rachel but not the woman herself)? This only upped with ''The Dark Knight''.
** It doesn't help that she's apparently meant to be a tough, crusading career woman but due to Katie Holmes feeling more like a high school cheerleader trying to hang out with the big kids, Rachel ends up feeling more like a naive naïve twit who's in way over her head.
* BrokenBase: "I won't kill you, [[spoiler:but I don't have to save you." Justified loophole to Batman's one rule, or cruel decision that equals the same as murder? [[note]] Though murder?[[note]]Though from a legal perspective, no no, it isn't murder- murder – since he was trying to stop a highly dangerous terrorist attempting to set off a chemical weapon, he could have beaten him to a bloody pulp and snapped his neck neck, and the law likely would not have held him responsible if that's what Batman considered necessary to stop a dangerous madman madman.[[/note]] ]]
* CriticalDissonance[=/=]VindicatedByHistory: Despite an overall Website/RottenTomatoes approval rating of 85%, ''Batman Begins'' holds a rather mixed percentage of 62% from the site's Top Critics (i.e., main news publications and magazines), with critics jarred by the serious tone of the film, although some film (although some, like Creator/RogerEbert Creator/RogerEbert, gave the film rave reviews.reviews). Since then, the film has become highly regarded in light of the genre becoming more respected within the industry, particularly once people saw what ''Film/TheDarkKnight'' built on top of the foundation of ''Begins''.



* DesignatedHero: Batman's recklessness could rival Superman's in ''Film/ManOfSteel.'' His best solution to preventing an execution in the League of Shadows was to set the dojo on fire, killing [[spoiler: the fake Ra's Al Ghul and God knows how many other people]], he causes a lot of collateral damage with the Tumbler, and he [[spoiler: intentionally leaves Ra's Al Ghul for dead rather than arresting him]]. This is especially jarring, because the Batman in this film claimed to have a ThouShaltNotKill rule. This is something that thankfully gets better in ''Film/TheDarkKnight.''

to:

* DesignatedHero: Batman's recklessness could rival Superman's in ''Film/ManOfSteel.'' His best solution to preventing an execution in the League of Shadows was to set the dojo on fire, killing [[spoiler: the [[spoiler:the fake Ra's Al Ghul and God knows how many other people]], he causes a lot of collateral damage with the Tumbler, and he [[spoiler: intentionally [[spoiler:intentionally leaves Ra's Al Ghul for dead rather than arresting him]]. This is especially jarring, because the Batman in this film claimed to have a ThouShaltNotKill rule. This is something that thankfully gets better in ''Film/TheDarkKnight.''''Film/TheDarkKnight''.



* EnsembleDarkhorse: Cillian Murphy's chilling performance as Dr. Jonathan Crane is widely considered to be the best thing about the film - and he's many filmgoers' favorite villain of the trilogy, or even the Batman franchise as a whole!

to:

* EnsembleDarkhorse: Cillian Murphy's chilling performance as Dr. Jonathan Crane is widely considered to be the best thing about the film - and he's many filmgoers' favorite villain of the trilogy, or even the Batman franchise as a whole!



** Played straight for those who felt underwhelmed by the sequels' lacks of gritty atmosphere that was noticable in the Begins.
* GeniusBonus: In the film's version of Batman's origin story, the reason young Bruce and his parents are in central Gotham on the night the latter get shot, is to see an opera. The opera is Mefistofele, and since the story of this opera concerns the battle by between good and evil for a man's soul, it's eerily prescient. In the film, young Bruce, scared of the devil costumes and intense music, asks to be taken outside - where his parents are promptly mugged and killed. Therefore the ideas of demons, death and illusion are firmly linked in the boy's mind from then on.

to:

** Played straight for those who felt underwhelmed by the sequels' lacks of gritty atmosphere that was noticable in the Begins.
''Begins''.
* GeniusBonus: In the film's this version of Batman's origin story, the reason young Bruce and his parents are in central Gotham on the night the latter get shot, is to see an opera. The opera is Mefistofele, and since the story of this opera concerns the battle by between good and evil for a man's soul, it's eerily prescient. In the film, young Bruce, Bruce – scared of the devil costumes and intense music, music – asks to be taken outside - outside, where his parents are promptly mugged and killed. Therefore Therefore, the ideas of demons, death death, and illusion are firmly linked in the boy's mind from then on.



** The origin story of Batman in this film (and the comics) is already pretty dark. It becomes even more dark [[LifeImitatesArt after the shooting at the AMC theater in Aurora, Colorado.]]

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** The origin story of Batman in this film (and the comics) is already pretty dark. It becomes even more dark [[LifeImitatesArt after the shooting at the AMC theater in Aurora, Colorado.]]Colorado]].



** While exploring an underground cave, Bruce wears a bright, circular light on his chest. [[Film/IronMan Sorta like a later billionaire turned superhero...]][[note]]And then he builds his suit ''in a cave!'' ''With a box of scraps!''[[/note]]

to:

** While exploring an underground cave, Bruce wears a bright, circular light on his chest. [[Film/IronMan Sorta like a later billionaire turned superhero...]][[note]]And superhero…]][[note]]And then he builds his suit ''in a cave!'' ''With cave! With a box of scraps!''[[/note]]



-->-->'''Ducard''': Once I had a wife... my great love... she was ''{{Film/taken}}'' from me.

to:

-->-->'''Ducard''': --->'''Ducard''': Once I had a wife... wife… my great love... love… she was ''{{Film/taken}}'' from me.



** [[spoiler: The League Of Shadows crosses this upon actually dispersing Crane's fear toxin. Their claims earlier on that Gotham was beyond saving could have been interpreted as a SecretTestOfCharacter, and if not, there was nothing in the movie that could rule out them being convinced otherwise... and then when they explained their means of destroying it there was nothing to rule out that they could have been talked out of THAT. But once they actually went through with said means of destruction, they were definitely beyond redemption like they claimed Gotham to be.]]
** Falcone crosses it by having a female assassin disguised as a reporter ice Joe Chill and, when Bruce Wayne confronts him about it, [[WouldYouLikeToHearHowTheyDied taunts him about the]] [[RelativeButton death of his parents]] before eighty-sixing him. When he returns as the Batman, the special treatment he accords to Falcone (using him as a prototype Bat Signal) is satisfying.

to:

** [[spoiler: The [[spoiler:The League Of Shadows crosses this upon actually dispersing Crane's fear toxin. Their claims earlier on that Gotham was beyond saving could have been interpreted as a SecretTestOfCharacter, and if not, there was nothing in the movie that could rule out them being convinced otherwise... otherwise… and then when they explained their means of destroying it it, there was nothing to rule out that they could have been talked out of THAT. But once they actually went through with said means of destruction, they were definitely beyond redemption like they claimed Gotham to be.]]
** Falcone crosses it by having a female assassin disguised as a reporter ice Joe Chill and, when Bruce Wayne confronts him about it, [[WouldYouLikeToHearHowTheyDied taunts him about the]] [[RelativeButton death of his parents]] before eighty-sixing him. When he Bruce returns as the Batman, the special treatment he accords to Falcone (using him as a prototype Bat Signal) is satisfying.



-->'''Old Water Technician:''' ''The pressure's coming straight for the main hub under Wayne Tower, and if that pressure reaches us, the whole water supply, right across the city is gonna blow!''
-->'''Old Water Technician:''' ''Evacuate the building. We're right on top of the main hub, and it's gonna blow!''

to:

-->'''Old Water Technician:''' ''The The pressure's coming straight for the main hub under Wayne Tower, and if that pressure reaches us, the whole water supply, right across the city is gonna blow!''
blow!
-->'''Old Water Technician:''' ''Evacuate Evacuate the building. We're right on top of the main hub, and it's gonna blow!''blow!



** Scarecrow seeing a demon Batman [[spoiler: after being dosed on his own fear gas]] also happened in ''Batman:TAS'', specifically his debut, "Nothing to Fear".

to:

** Scarecrow seeing a demon Batman [[spoiler: after [[spoiler:after being dosed on his own fear gas]] also happened in ''Batman:TAS'', specifically his debut, "Nothing to Fear".



** Take a close look at the little kid who talks to Batman, and who Rachel saves from the Scarecrow. Poor little Creator/JackGleeson, you have no idea how much people are going to hate [[Series/GameOfThrones a certain future character of yours.]]

to:

** Take a close look at the little kid who talks to Batman, and who Rachel saves from the Scarecrow. Poor little Creator/JackGleeson, you have no idea how much people are going to hate [[Series/GameOfThrones a certain future character of yours.]]yours]].



* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: One major complaint about this movie is how the Scarecrow was treated. Despite being built up as a major threat, he [[spoiler: gets gassed by Batman and is last seen in the movie getting Tased by Rachel]].

to:

* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: One major complaint about this movie is how the Scarecrow was treated. Despite being built up as a major threat, he [[spoiler: gets [[spoiler:gets gassed by Batman and is last seen in the movie getting Tased by Rachel]].



** Katie Holmes as Rachel. Not that she does a bad job per se, but rather that she looks way too young to sell the hardened career woman seeking justice that she's supposed to be. After all, Rachel is supposed to be around 30, but in 2005 Holmes was still in her early 20s.

to:

** Katie Holmes as Rachel. Not that she does a bad job per se, but rather that she looks way too young to sell the hardened career woman seeking justice that she's supposed to be. After all, Rachel is supposed to be around 30, but in 2005 2005, Holmes was still in her early 20s.
23rd May '16 8:00:22 PM Angeldeb82
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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation:

to:

* AlternateCharacterInterpretation:AlternativeCharacterInterpretation:



* BaseBreaker: Rachel Dawes. Is she the moral center of the film, and justified in [[spoiler:not dating Bruce until his time as Batman is done]], or a preachy PuritySue who seems to be in love with an idealization of Bruce, not the real man (and vice versa - Bruce is in love with an idealization of Rachel but not the woman herself)? This only upped with ''The Dark Knight''.

to:

* BaseBreaker: Rachel Dawes. Is she the moral center of the film, and justified in [[spoiler:not dating Bruce until his time as Batman is done]], or a preachy PuritySue Purity Sue who seems to be in love with an idealization of Bruce, not the real man (and vice versa - Bruce is in love with an idealization of Rachel but not the woman herself)? This only upped with ''The Dark Knight''.



* DesignatedHero: Batman's recklessness could rival Superman's in ''Film/ManOfSteel.'' His best solution to preventing an execution in the League of Shadows was to set the dojo on fire, killing [[spoiler: the fake Ra's Al Ghul and god knows how many other people]], he causes a lot of collateral damage with the Tumbler, and he [[spoiler: intentionally leaves Ra's Al Ghul for dead rather than arresting him]]. This is especially jarring, because the Batman in this film claimed to have a ThouShaltNotKill rule. This is something that thankfully gets better in ''Film/TheDarkKnight.''

to:

* DesignatedHero: Batman's recklessness could rival Superman's in ''Film/ManOfSteel.'' His best solution to preventing an execution in the League of Shadows was to set the dojo on fire, killing [[spoiler: the fake Ra's Al Ghul and god God knows how many other people]], he causes a lot of collateral damage with the Tumbler, and he [[spoiler: intentionally leaves Ra's Al Ghul for dead rather than arresting him]]. This is especially jarring, because the Batman in this film claimed to have a ThouShaltNotKill rule. This is something that thankfully gets better in ''Film/TheDarkKnight.''



-->-->'''Ducard''': Once I had a wife... my great love... she was ''[[{{Film/Taken}} taken]]'' from me.

to:

-->-->'''Ducard''': Once I had a wife... my great love... she was ''[[{{Film/Taken}} taken]]'' ''{{Film/taken}}'' from me.
20th Apr '16 8:07:32 AM GothicProphet
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* {{Narm}} Shane Rimmer's lines [[MrExposition as a water technician]] as Ra's Al Ghul's train hurtles towards him are perhaps the clunkiest and worst-written in the entire franchise. Fans of Podcast/RiffTrax can almost hear Mike say "got that audience?" in the background. Nevertheless, he puts the required effort into them, and the audience feels happy when he survives.

to:

* {{Narm}} {{Narm}}: Shane Rimmer's lines [[MrExposition as a water technician]] as Ra's Al Ghul's train hurtles towards him are perhaps the clunkiest and worst-written in the entire franchise. Fans of Podcast/RiffTrax can almost hear Mike say "got that audience?" in the background. Nevertheless, he puts the required effort into them, and the audience feels happy when he survives.
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