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* BaseBreakingCharacter: Due to changes in her backstory and her AdaptationalJerkass, Batwoman can be difficult to like in this film. Some see her as a decent adaption with her backstory being simplified to leave the film room for the plot and other characters, others feel that the [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks changes cause several problems]] and in some ways ruin the character. Some have also complained that despite getting more development than Batwing, she arguably contributes the least to the plot: her most noticeably actions are telling Dick and Damian the circumstances of Bruce's "death", giving Batwing the flash drive without telling the others so [[spoiler:the brainwashed Bruce would tell]] Talia who would then brainwash her father to try and kill Kate instead of Luke, and having a DesignatedGirlFight with Talia that she loses.

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* BaseBreakingCharacter: Due to changes in her backstory and her AdaptationalJerkass, Batwoman can be difficult to like in this film. Some see her as a decent adaption with her backstory being simplified to leave the film room for the plot and other characters, others feel that the [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks changes cause several problems]] and in some ways ruin the character. Some have also complained that despite getting more development than Batwing, she arguably contributes the least to the plot: her most noticeably noticeable actions are telling Dick and Damian the circumstances of Bruce's "death", giving Batwing the flash drive without telling the others so [[spoiler:the brainwashed Bruce would tell]] Talia who would then brainwash her father to try and kill Kate instead of Luke, and having a DesignatedGirlFight with Talia that she loses.
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Has been made into a disambiguation.


* EvilIsSexy: The main antagonist, Talia, wears a skintight, leather, cleavage-revealing outfit for the entire film.
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Renamed some tropes.


* AlternateCharacterInterpretation:

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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: AlternativeCharacterInterpretation:



* BaseBreakingCharacter: Due to changes in her backstory and her AdaptationalJerkass, Batwoman can be difficult to like in this film. Some see her as a decent adaption with her backstory being simplified to leave the film room for the plot and other characters, others feel that the [[TheyChangedItSoItSucks changes cause several problems]] and in some ways ruin the character. Some have also complained that despite getting more development than Batwing, she arguably contributes the least to the plot: her most noticeably actions are telling Dick and Damian the circumstances of Bruce's "death", giving Batwing the flash drive without telling the others so [[spoiler:the brainwashed Bruce would tell]] Talia who would then brainwash her father to try and kill Kate instead of Luke, and having a DesignatedGirlFight with Talia that she loses.

to:

* BaseBreakingCharacter: Due to changes in her backstory and her AdaptationalJerkass, Batwoman can be difficult to like in this film. Some see her as a decent adaption with her backstory being simplified to leave the film room for the plot and other characters, others feel that the [[TheyChangedItSoItSucks [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks changes cause several problems]] and in some ways ruin the character. Some have also complained that despite getting more development than Batwing, she arguably contributes the least to the plot: her most noticeably actions are telling Dick and Damian the circumstances of Bruce's "death", giving Batwing the flash drive without telling the others so [[spoiler:the brainwashed Bruce would tell]] Talia who would then brainwash her father to try and kill Kate instead of Luke, and having a DesignatedGirlFight with Talia that she loses.
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None

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** Talia's FaceHeelTurn: her simply revealing her true nature or the result of the Lazarus Pit altering her personality?


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* BaseBreakingCharacter: Due to changes in her backstory and her AdaptationalJerkass, Batwoman can be difficult to like in this film. Some see her as a decent adaption with her backstory being simplified to leave the film room for the plot and other characters, others feel that the [[TheyChangedItSoItSucks changes cause several problems]] and in some ways ruin the character. Some have also complained that despite getting more development than Batwing, she arguably contributes the least to the plot: her most noticeably actions are telling Dick and Damian the circumstances of Bruce's "death", giving Batwing the flash drive without telling the others so [[spoiler:the brainwashed Bruce would tell]] Talia who would then brainwash her father to try and kill Kate instead of Luke, and having a DesignatedGirlFight with Talia that she loses.
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None

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* DracoInLeatherPants: The Mad Hatter is viewed with plenty of sympathy by fans, even though he murders two security guards with a smile on his face and (however much he fears Talia's BadBoss tendencies) he presumably joins her organization willingly.


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* HesJustHiding: It's tempting to question whether Killer Moth and Hellhound might have survived being crushed by falling debris at the abbey, or whether [[spoiler:Onyx]] might have survived the explosion of Talia's vessel after already having a NoOneCouldSurviveThat moment.
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It's mentioned below.


* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: While Batwoman's backstory is largely correct based on the comics and most fans don't have an issue with how it was presented (especially due to some of the tweaks that had to be made due to SocietyMarchesOn), other viewers have problems with a few details:

to:

* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: While Batwoman's backstory is largely correct based on the comics and most some fans don't have an issue with how it was presented (especially due to some of the tweaks that had to be made due to SocietyMarchesOn), presented, other viewers have problems with a few details:



** While it doesn't make the character as timeless, many people ''like'' that she left the military under Don't Ask, Don't Tell in the comics, as it shows her choosing to embrace her identity as opposed to hiding it. The film has her have a breakdown, basically eliminating her agency in the matter.

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** While it doesn't make the character as timeless, many people ''like'' that she left the military under Don't Ask, Don't Tell in the comics, as it shows her choosing to embrace her identity as opposed to hiding it. it -- it is considered the most powerful moment of her origin, and makes being queer a part of her origin without defining her entire character. The film has her have a breakdown, basically eliminating her agency in the matter.matter and removes the queer aspect from the origin of one of, if not ''the'' biggest name queer characters.
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None

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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation:
** Talia's cold-blooded execution of [[spoiler:Heretic]]. The way she does it, it can look very much like a KickTheDog moment, but it is possible to justify it from her point of view. [[spoiler:He is clearly mentally unstable by then, a loose cannon who upsets her plans and threatens her associates with death unless they go along with his zany schemes. It's quite possible that he would become violent (and so, very dangerous, since he's a borderline SuperSoldier) if she rejected him openly. From her perspective, lulling him into safety and killing him quickly and cleanly quite possibly was the best and most humane option she had--it's not like she could just turn him over to the mental health system for confinement and treatment, which would have been the default "heroic" option.]]
** Talia's feelings for Bruce Wayne/Batman in this continuity. She obviously feels very strongly for him, but viewers may differ on the exact nature of those feelings. Is she [[OneTrueLove very deeply and sincerely in love with him]], or just [[StalkerWithACrush possessively obsessed]] with him?

Changed: 24

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* CompleteMonster: [[ComicBook/RasAlGhul Talia al Ghul]], the new leader of the League of Assassins, is a ControlFreak of the highest order, and TookALevelInJerkass from ''Son of Batman''. Her ultimate plan is is to use Bruce Wayne's technology to brainwash the world leaders attending his tech summit, in order to expand the League of Assassins' influence over the planet. Talia assembles a team of villains under the command of [[TheDragon the Heretic]], the adult clone of her and Bruce's ChildByRape Damian Wayne, and orders them to capture Bruce so [[MindRape his mind could be broken]] with Mad Hatter's machine; Mad Hatter has been forced to cooperate by means of an ExplosiveLeash. Later, Talia sends Heretic to attack Wayne Enterprises in order to steal technology necessary for her plan, near-fatally wounding Lucius Fox in the assault. When Heretic breaks down and begs for Talia to love him as a mother, and wishing to have Damian's memories, she [[spoiler:shoots him in the head for disobeying her orders regarding Damian]]. As the brainwashing is taking place, she orders a mind-controlled Bruce to shoot Dick Grayson and [[OffingTheOffspring their son]] Damian dead, coldly proclaiming that she and Bruce could always "make more".

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* CompleteMonster: [[ComicBook/RasAlGhul Talia al Ghul]], ComicBook/TaliaAlGhul, the new leader of the League of Assassins, is a ControlFreak of the highest order, and TookALevelInJerkass from ''Son of Batman''. Her ultimate plan is is to use Bruce Wayne's technology to brainwash the world leaders attending his tech summit, in order to expand the League of Assassins' influence over the planet. Talia assembles a team of villains under the command of [[TheDragon the Heretic]], the adult clone of her and Bruce's ChildByRape Damian Wayne, and orders them to capture Bruce so [[MindRape his mind could be broken]] with Mad Hatter's machine; Mad Hatter has been forced to cooperate by means of an ExplosiveLeash. Later, Talia sends Heretic to attack Wayne Enterprises in order to steal technology necessary for her plan, near-fatally wounding Lucius Fox in the assault. When Heretic breaks down and begs for Talia to love him as a mother, and wishing to have Damian's memories, she [[spoiler:shoots him in the head for disobeying her orders regarding Damian]]. As the brainwashing is taking place, she orders a mind-controlled Bruce to shoot Dick Grayson and [[OffingTheOffspring their son]] Damian dead, coldly proclaiming that she and Bruce could always "make more".
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None


* CharacterRerailment: Talia al Ghul being the true BigBad of the movie fits in more with how Creator/GrantMorrison portrayed her during his run in the Batman's titles.

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* CharacterRerailment: Talia al Ghul being the true BigBad of the movie fits in more with how Creator/GrantMorrison portrayed her during his their run in the Batman's titles.
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Batman Vs Robin was very well-received by critics, despite fan reception being mixed.


* SurprisinglyImprovedSequel: Reception has been much more positive than ''WesternAnimation/SonOfBatman'' and ''WesternAnimation/BatmanVsRobin'', with points of praise coming from the focus on an ensemble cast (as opposed to just Damian), character arcs for Nightwing and Batwoman, a good soundtrack and decent animation, particularly the fight choreography.

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* SurprisinglyImprovedSequel: Reception Fan reception has been much more positive than ''WesternAnimation/SonOfBatman'' and ''WesternAnimation/BatmanVsRobin'', with points of praise coming from the focus on an ensemble cast (as opposed to just Damian), character arcs for Nightwing and Batwoman, a good soundtrack and decent animation, particularly the fight choreography.
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* {{Narm}}: [[spoiler:The Mad Hatter]]'s death would normally be horrifying, as he is electrocuted until his head explodes; but his facial expression instead makes it one of the funniest scenes in the entire film, due to his exaggerated and cartoonishly bulgy eyes.

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Clearing unnecessary spoiler tags. Examples Are Not Recent. Misuse of Harsher In Hindsight: This is for serious moments in THIS film that become even harsher due to later events.


* CharacterRerailment: To an extent, but [[spoiler:Talia al Ghul being the true BigBad of the movie fits in more with how Creator/GrantMorrison portrayed her during his run in the Batman's titles.]]

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* CharacterRerailment: To an extent, but [[spoiler:Talia Talia al Ghul being the true BigBad of the movie fits in more with how Creator/GrantMorrison portrayed her during his run in the Batman's titles.]]



* EvilIsSexy: Talia wears a skintight, leather, cleavage-revealing outfit for the entire film. Onyx is quite hot too.
* HarsherInHindsight: Talia's MamaBear actions in ''WesternAnimation/SonOfBatman'' become more sour to look at since this time she shows no qualms about killing her own son.
* IronWoobie: All heroes. [[spoiler: Bruce is kidnapped and brainwashed by Talia, who ordered him to kill his own children. Nightwing and Damian nearly get killed by their father. Batwoman lost her mother and sister, and is attacked by her brainwashed father. Alfred nearly lost his master and a man who is like son to him. Luke nealy loses his father too.]] They still go on and stop criminals.
* JerkassWoobie: An argument can be made for Mad Hatter, who's [[spoiler:mainly working for Talia under death threat, even apologising to Damian and expressing his regret, and is rather brutally killed off.]] Heretic counts too, as [[spoiler: he does evil deeds only to impress his "mother", Talia al Ghul, and wants to be loved by her. And then he gets offed by her.]]

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* EvilIsSexy: Talia The main antagonist, Talia, wears a skintight, leather, cleavage-revealing outfit for the entire film. Onyx is quite hot too.
* HarsherInHindsight: Talia's MamaBear actions in ''WesternAnimation/SonOfBatman'' become more sour to look at since this time she shows no qualms about killing her own son.
film.
* IronWoobie: All heroes. [[spoiler: Bruce is kidnapped and brainwashed by Talia, who ordered orders him to kill his own children. Nightwing and Damian nearly get killed by their father. Batwoman lost her mother and sister, and is attacked by her brainwashed father. Alfred nearly lost loses his master and a man who is like son to him. Luke nealy nearly loses his father too.]] They still go on and stop criminals.
* JerkassWoobie: An argument can be made for JerkassWoobie:
** The
Mad Hatter, who's [[spoiler:mainly Hatter is mainly working for Talia under death threat, even apologising to Damian and expressing his regret, and is rather brutally killed off.]] off.
** The
Heretic counts too, as [[spoiler: he does evil deeds only to impress [[spoiler:impress his "mother", Talia al Ghul, and wants to be loved by her. And then when he gets offed by her.begs her to love him back, she sees his display of emotions as a flaw and offs him instead.]]



** Black Mask appears and [[spoiler: gets his mask burned to his face like in the comics.]]
** And given how often they're mentioned on these pages, [[spoiler:Barbra Gordon as Batgirl appearing at the very end of the film.]]

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** Black Mask appears and [[spoiler: gets his mask burned to his face like in the comics.]]
comics.
** And given how often they're mentioned on these pages, [[spoiler:Barbra Gordon Barbra Gordon' triumphant debut as Batgirl appearing Batgirl, which only happens at the very end of the film.]]



* SurprisinglyImprovedSequel: Early audience reception has been much more positive than ''WesternAnimation/SonOfBatman'' and ''WesternAnimation/BatmanVsRobin'', with points of praise coming from the focus on an ensemble cast (as opposed to just Damian), character arcs for Nightwing and Batwoman, a good soundtrack, and decent animation, particularly the fight choreography.

to:

* SurprisinglyImprovedSequel: Early audience reception Reception has been much more positive than ''WesternAnimation/SonOfBatman'' and ''WesternAnimation/BatmanVsRobin'', with points of praise coming from the focus on an ensemble cast (as opposed to just Damian), character arcs for Nightwing and Batwoman, a good soundtrack, soundtrack and decent animation, particularly the fight choreography.
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None


* CharacterRerailment: To an extent, but [[spoiler:Talia al Ghul being the true BigBad of the movie fits more how Creator/GrantMorrison portrayed her during his run in the Batman's titles.]]

to:

* CharacterRerailment: To an extent, but [[spoiler:Talia al Ghul being the true BigBad of the movie fits in more with how Creator/GrantMorrison portrayed her during his run in the Batman's titles.]]

Changed: 52

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* CompleteMonster: [[ComicBook/RasAlGhul Talia al Ghul]], the new [[BigBad leader]] of the League of Assassins, is a ControlFreak of the highest order, and TookALevelInJerkass from ''WesternAnimation/SonOfBatman''. Her ultimate plan is is to use Bruce Wayne's technology to brainwash the world leaders attending his tech summit, in order to expand the League of Assassins' influence over the planet. Talia assembles [[CListFodder a team of villains]] under the command of [[TheDragon The Heretic]], the adult clone of her and Bruce's ChildByRape Damian Wayne, and orders them to capture Bruce so [[MindRape his mind could be broken]] with Mad Hatter's machine; Mad Hatter has been forced to cooperate by means on an ExplosiveLeash. Later, Talia sends Heretic to attack Wayne Enterprises in order to steal technology necessary for her plan, near-fatally wounding Lucius Fox in the assault. When Heretic breaks down and begs for Talia to love him as a mother, and wishing to have Damian's memories, she [[spoiler:shoots him in the head for disobeying her orders regarding Damian]]. As the brainwashing is taking place, she orders a mind-controlled Bruce to shoot Dick Grayson and [[OffingTheOffspring their son]] Damian dead, coldly proclaiming that she and Bruce could always "make more".

to:

* CompleteMonster: [[ComicBook/RasAlGhul Talia al Ghul]], the new [[BigBad leader]] leader of the League of Assassins, is a ControlFreak of the highest order, and TookALevelInJerkass from ''WesternAnimation/SonOfBatman''.''Son of Batman''. Her ultimate plan is is to use Bruce Wayne's technology to brainwash the world leaders attending his tech summit, in order to expand the League of Assassins' influence over the planet. Talia assembles [[CListFodder a team of villains]] villains under the command of [[TheDragon The the Heretic]], the adult clone of her and Bruce's ChildByRape Damian Wayne, and orders them to capture Bruce so [[MindRape his mind could be broken]] with Mad Hatter's machine; Mad Hatter has been forced to cooperate by means on of an ExplosiveLeash. Later, Talia sends Heretic to attack Wayne Enterprises in order to steal technology necessary for her plan, near-fatally wounding Lucius Fox in the assault. When Heretic breaks down and begs for Talia to love him as a mother, and wishing to have Damian's memories, she [[spoiler:shoots him in the head for disobeying her orders regarding Damian]]. As the brainwashing is taking place, she orders a mind-controlled Bruce to shoot Dick Grayson and [[OffingTheOffspring their son]] Damian dead, coldly proclaiming that she and Bruce could always "make more".
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Hopefully this is a better fit.

Added DiffLines:

* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: While Batwoman's backstory is largely correct based on the comics and most fans don't have an issue with how it was presented (especially due to some of the tweaks that had to be made due to SocietyMarchesOn), other viewers have problems with a few details:
** In the film, Kate was very nearly raped and saved only by Batman's intervention, while in the comics she was mugged and managed to fight off her attacker on her own, with Batman only showing himself afterward. Despite facing four thugs in the film as opposed to just one in the comics (although it's not uncommon for punks to brood around bars), as well as visibly not being in top shape, some viewers see this as weakening her character and possibly even making her a DamselInDistress.
** Kate rudely brushes off Batman when he offers her a hand up in the film, while she was more awestruck by him in the comics and accepted his help in standing. Again, some think this casts Kate in too negative a light.
** While it doesn't make the character as timeless, many people ''like'' that she left the military under Don't Ask, Don't Tell in the comics, as it shows her choosing to embrace her identity as opposed to hiding it. The film has her have a breakdown, basically eliminating her agency in the matter.
** Finally, Batwoman states that after her attack she decided to fight crime in order to never be a victim again, while her comic counterpart took up vigilantism as an alternative to serving in the military, an option no longer open to her at that point in her life; some see movie Batwoman's motive as being too cliche compared to her comic version.


* BrokenBase: While Batwoman's backstory is largely correct based on the comics and most fans don't have an issue with how it was presented (especially due to some of the tweaks that had to be made due to SocietyMarchesOn), other viewers have problems with a few details:
** In the film, Kate was very nearly raped and saved only by Batman's intervention, while in the comics she was mugged and managed to fight off her attacker on her own, with Batman only showing himself afterward. Despite facing four thugs in the film as opposed to just one in the comics (although it's not uncommon for punks to brood around bars), as well as visibly not being in top shape, some viewers see this as weakening her character and possibly even making her a DamselInDistress.
** Kate rudely brushes off Batman when he offers her a hand up in the film, while she was more awestruck by him in the comics and accepted his help in standing. Again, some think this casts Kate in too negative a light.
** While it doesn't make the character as timeless, many people ''like'' that she left the military under Don't Ask, Don't Tell in the comics, as it shows her choosing to embrace her identity as opposed to hiding it. The film has her have a breakdown, basically eliminating her agency in the matter.
** Finally, Batwoman states that after her attack she decided to fight crime in order to never be a victim again, while her comic counterpart took up vigilantism as an alternative to serving in the military, an option no longer open to her at that point in her life; some see movie Batwoman's motive as being too cliche compared to her comic version.

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