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** Imoen, in sort of an inversion of a CreatorsPet. The writers wrote her in at the last minute due to feedback about the early game of the first game being too challenging -- in fact, she has no banter dialogue and all her voice barks are spliced together from another, cut NPC! The developers wanted to kill her off in the second game, but she was so popular with fans that they reconsidered.
** [[StoneWall Kagain]] was [[HiddenCharacter difficult to find]] back in the day but his extremely high Constitution and ability to wear the best armour made him best tank in the first game, which gave him lasting popularity. He's also just [[ALighterShadeOfBlack mildly evil]], making him popular [[TokenEvilTeammate even to good aligned parties]].
** Paladins tend not to be particularly popular characters in these types of stories, being cartoonishly uptight, cardboard [[KnightInShiningArmor Knights In Shining Armor]] most of the time, but lots of players feel Keldorn's a well-written character who retains the essence of the character type while subverting the flatter and more stereotypical aspects of it. There are even mods making him a possible [[MayDecemberRomance romance option]]!
** Viconia because (1) she's the MsFanservice and (2) she's the [[TheMedic game's best healer]].
** For many, Edwin, who is amusingly over-the-top in his grumpiness and who, two games, two expansions and a revamped edition on, still reigns as the king of arcane spellcasting as he is virtually min-maxed out of the box to fling death spells with impunity.
** Among the ''Enhanced Edition'' companions, Dorn seem to the most popular, because of his usefulness, largely averting half-orc stereotypes and having EvilIsCool written all over him.
** Lilarcor isn't even an NPC. He's a flavor weapon that gained so much popularity that the fans treated him as a core party member and created mods which let him interact with the world around him. There's even a mod out for ''VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIIIMorrowind'' which lets you use him.
** The Spectator Beholder. A non-evil [[EldritchAbomination Beholder]] is bound to get attention. It helps that he's cartoonishly snarky, flunks being an evil minion and even seems rather fond of the player.
** Solaufein from the Underdark arc. He's well-liked for being [[spoiler:a good-aligned ManipulativeBastard]] and many fans lamented that he wasn't a recruitable NPC, and a good-quality mod exists to make him just that.
** Also another enemy, perhaps the Master Wraith deserves mention. By all means, his role in the game is something of a GiantSpaceFleaFromNowhere when you're trying to face off Yaga-Shura. However, he's such a master of BreakThemByTalking that he brings [[PlayerPunch gut-wrenching]] dialogues with your romance options that really make him stand out.
** Clara, the woman [[spoiler:you 'meet' as Hexxat]], has garnered a surprising number of fans, thanks to [[spoiler:her heartbreaking plea to be spared right before Hexxat kills her and]] the little information given about her backstory being [[TheWoobie plain depressing]]. Quite a few bemoan that [[spoiler:you can't save her]], and are hoping for a mod or DLC that makes her recruitable.

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** Companions:
***
Imoen, in sort of an inversion of a CreatorsPet. The writers wrote her in at the last minute due to feedback about the early game of the first game being too challenging -- in fact, she has no banter dialogue and all her voice barks are spliced together from another, cut NPC! The developers wanted to kill her off in the second game, but she was so popular with fans that they reconsidered.
** *** [[StoneWall Kagain]] was [[HiddenCharacter difficult to find]] back in the day but his extremely high Constitution and ability to wear the best armour made him best tank in the first game, which gave him lasting popularity. He's also just [[ALighterShadeOfBlack mildly evil]], making him popular [[TokenEvilTeammate even to good aligned parties]].
** *** Paladins tend not to be particularly popular characters in these types of stories, being cartoonishly uptight, cardboard [[KnightInShiningArmor Knights In Shining Armor]] most of the time, but lots of players feel Keldorn's a well-written character who retains the essence of the character type while subverting the flatter and more stereotypical aspects of it. There are even mods making him a possible [[MayDecemberRomance romance option]]!
** *** Viconia because (1) she's the MsFanservice and (2) she's the [[TheMedic game's best healer]].
** *** For many, Edwin, who is amusingly over-the-top in his grumpiness and who, two games, two expansions and a revamped edition on, still reigns as the king of arcane spellcasting as he is virtually min-maxed out of the box to fling death spells with impunity.
** *** Among the ''Enhanced Edition'' companions, Dorn seem to the most popular, because of his usefulness, largely averting half-orc stereotypes and having EvilIsCool written all over him.
** Lilarcor isn't even an NPC. He's *** Clara, the woman [[spoiler:you 'meet' as Hexxat]], has garnered a flavor weapon surprising number of fans, thanks to [[spoiler:her heartbreaking plea to be spared right before Hexxat kills her and]] the little information given about her backstory being [[TheWoobie plain depressing]]. Quite a few bemoan that gained so much popularity that the fans treated him as a core party member [[spoiler:you can't save her]], and created mods which let him interact with the world around him. There's even are hoping for a mod out for ''VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIIIMorrowind'' which lets you use him.
or DLC that makes her recruitable.
** NPC's:
***
The Spectator Beholder. A non-evil [[EldritchAbomination Beholder]] is bound to get attention. It helps that he's cartoonishly snarky, flunks being an evil minion and even seems rather fond of the player.
** *** Solaufein from the Underdark arc. He's well-liked for being [[spoiler:a good-aligned ManipulativeBastard]] and many fans lamented that he wasn't a recruitable NPC, and a good-quality mod exists to make him just that.
** *** Also another enemy, perhaps the Master Wraith deserves mention. By all means, his role in the game is something of a GiantSpaceFleaFromNowhere when you're trying to face off Yaga-Shura. However, he's such a master of BreakThemByTalking that he brings [[PlayerPunch gut-wrenching]] dialogues with your romance options that really make him stand out.
** Clara, the woman [[spoiler:you 'meet' as Hexxat]], has garnered Misc:
*** Lilarcor isn't even an NPC. He's
a surprising number of fans, thanks to [[spoiler:her heartbreaking plea to be spared right before Hexxat kills her and]] the little information given about her backstory being [[TheWoobie plain depressing]]. Quite a few bemoan flavor weapon that [[spoiler:you can't save her]], gained so much popularity that the fans treated him as a core party member and are hoping for created mods which let him interact with the world around him. There's even a mod or DLC that makes her recruitable.out for ''VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIIIMorrowind'' which lets you use him.
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Cut by the thread.


** ''VideoGame/BaldursGate'': Sarevok Anchev spent his childhood persecuted for his Bhaalspawn heritage until he was adopted by the merchant lord Rieltar Anchev who once had his unfaithful wife throttled in front of Sarevok as a harsh lesson. Growing up, Sarevok plots with Rieltar to become the Grand Duke of Baldur's Gate by using a campaign of subterfuge, assassination and manipulation to make his merchant house, the Iron Throne, all the more powerful. Deciding to subvert Rieltar's plan to his own ends, Sarevok plans to kick off a war and use the resultant slaughter as a way to ascend to his dead father's divinity. Even arranging for Rieltar's assassination and framing the heroes, Sarevok is stopped just before he can become Grand Duke before returning in ''[[VideoGame/BaldursGateIIThroneOfBhaal Throne of Bhaal]]'', using vital information to force the heroes to restore him to life, where he takes a stand to help save the world and find a place for himself.
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** This is a criticism sometimes leveled against the first game's cast, especially when compared to the [[SeinfeldIsUnfunny second game]]. As while it does have some fairly memorable characters, at the same time, their whole personalities and most of their interactions with others are contained on just their voice lines, which by the mid-game, the player will already have heard it all. And the banters that have become characteristic of the second game are so rare that the player might only see ''one'' of them on an entire playthrough. And we're not even getting on how the characters will have [[UnusuallyUninterestingSight no reaction at all to any of the events of the plot,]] even things that ''should'' warrant a reaction to them (such as CHARNAME numerous murder attempts, which not even Imoen seems to be concerned). It speaks for itself that ''[[FixFic an entire mod]]'' was made to add more banter and character reactions to the events of the plot.

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** This is a criticism sometimes leveled against the first game's cast, especially when compared to the [[SeinfeldIsUnfunny second game]].game. As while it does have some fairly memorable characters, at the same time, their whole personalities and most of their interactions with others are contained on just their voice lines, which by the mid-game, the player will already have heard it all. And the banters that have become characteristic of the second game are so rare that the player might only see ''one'' of them on an entire playthrough. And we're not even getting on how the characters will have [[UnusuallyUninterestingSight no reaction at all to any of the events of the plot,]] even things that ''should'' warrant a reaction to them (such as CHARNAME numerous murder attempts, which not even Imoen seems to be concerned). It speaks for itself that ''[[FixFic an entire mod]]'' was made to add more banter and character reactions to the events of the plot.

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* OnceOriginalNowCommon:
** By modern standards, ''Baldur's Gate'' is a NintendoHard game with a rather steep learning curve and some very unforgiving elements, most notably, the 2nd edition ''Advanced TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' ruleset. At the time, it was praised for how user-friendly and accessible it was, being called an "RPG for a wide audience", in contrast to how ridiculously difficult older western [=RPGs=] tended to be. The sequel was more forgiving, thankfully, though no doubt owing partly to starting off with a more experienced party (not to mention a much higher level cap).
** For all the praise ''Baldur's Gate 2'' received for its depth in NPC and party member interactions, those same interactions now look thin in comparison to [=BioWare=]'s later games such as ''VideoGame/KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'' and the ''Franchise/DragonAge'' series. Players who experienced those games first can be left wondering why ''Baldur's Gate 2'' received this praise to begin with, but at the time it was ahead of the pack, with perhaps only ''VideoGame/PlanescapeTorment'' able to compete in terms of NPC interactivity.



* SeinfeldIsUnfunny:
** By modern standards, ''Baldur's Gate'' is a NintendoHard game with a rather steep learning curve and some very unforgiving elements, most notably, the 2nd edition ''Advanced TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' ruleset. At the time, it was praised for how user-friendly and accessible it was, being called an "RPG for a wide audience", in contrast to how ridiculously difficult older western [=RPGs=] tended to be. The sequel was more forgiving, thankfully, though no doubt owing partly to starting off with a more experienced party (not to mention a much higher level cap).
** For all the praise ''Baldur's Gate 2'' received for its depth in NPC and party member interactions, those same interactions now look thin in comparison to [=BioWare=]'s later games such as ''VideoGame/KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'' and the ''Franchise/DragonAge'' series. Players who experienced those games first can be left wondering why ''Baldur's Gate 2'' received this praise to begin with, but at the time it was ahead of the pack, with perhaps only ''VideoGame/PlanescapeTorment'' able to compete in terms of NPC interactivity.

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Evil Is Sexy has been dewicked.


* EvilIsSexy:
** Viconia. It's standard procedure for drow.
** Bodhi is a horrible person but a sexy female EeriePaleSkinnedBrunette vampire.
** He might be the most evil of all the evil choices, but Dorn has a pretty sturdy female fanbase considering that he's not even ''human.'' Apart from the tusks and dark skin, he seems to get most of his looks from his human side, and having 19 strength just ''screams'' that there's a whole lot of muscle under the full plate he can wear.
** Hexxat is the only lesbian love interest in the game and a tragic vampire as well.
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By TRS decision Evil Is Sexy is now a disambiguation page. Moving entries to appropriate tropes when possible.


** Viconia because (1) EvilIsSexy and (2) she's the game's best healer.

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** Viconia because (1) EvilIsSexy she's the MsFanservice and (2) she's the [[TheMedic game's best healer.healer]].

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* SlowPacedBeginning:
** Arguably the first game as a whole. You start off with little more than rags on your back and have to build your character from there if you want to stand a chance. There's a low level cap - seven in vanilla, nine with the ''Tales of the Sword Coast'' expansion - which means that you have a limited amount of spells and abilities as you fight enemies of much higher level, who have abilities you can only dream of. This is especially the case if you play as a spell caster because you can only cast very limited amounts of spells per day and healers are stuck with only Cure Minor wounds until level five, where Cure Serious Wounds is introduced.
** Averted in the sequel because you start with a higher level - 7 if new, max 9 if imported from the first game - and decent gear and party with every essential role filled - Tank (Minsc), Healer (Jaheira), Mage (Imoen) and thief (Imoen and later Yoshimo).

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* SlowPacedBeginning:
** Arguably
SlowPacedBeginning: Mechanically, the entire first game as a whole. You start half of ''Baldur's Gate''. Starting off with little more than rags on your back and have to build at level 1 makes your character from there if you want both very fragile and highly unreliable according to stand a chance. ''AD&D'' rules. There's a low level cap - seven -- about 7 in vanilla, nine the base game, about 9 with the ''Tales of the Sword Coast'' expansion - -- which means that you have a limited amount of spells and abilities as you fight enemies of much higher level, who have abilities you can only dream of. This is especially the case if you play as a spell caster spellcaster because you can only cast very limited amounts of spells per day and healers are stuck with only Cure Minor wounds until level five, where Cure Serious Wounds is introduced.
** Averted in the sequel because you start with a higher level - 7 if new, max 9 if imported from the first game - and decent gear and party with every essential role filled - Tank (Minsc), Healer (Jaheira), Mage (Imoen) and thief (Imoen and later Yoshimo).
introduced.



** The full Ascension mod for Throne of Bhaal, on top of turning the FinalBoss into both ThatOneBoss and BestBossEver, also jacks up the difficulty for the boss fights with Ilasara, Gromnir, Yaga-Shura, Abazigal and Demogorgon, turning them ''all'' into this. Yaga-Shura, for example, now loses his {{Nigh Invulnerab|le}}ility gradually over time instead of instantaneously, is accompanied by powerful lieutenants, can now chuck a plethora of nasty fire spells at will, and is surrounded by so many respawning {{Mook}}s that the fight becomes TheWarSequence on top of everything else.

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** The full Ascension mod for Throne ''Throne of Bhaal, Bhaal'', on top of turning the FinalBoss into both ThatOneBoss and BestBossEver, also jacks up the difficulty for the boss fights with Ilasara, Gromnir, Yaga-Shura, Abazigal and Demogorgon, turning them ''all'' into this. Yaga-Shura, for example, now loses his {{Nigh Invulnerab|le}}ility gradually over time instead of instantaneously, is accompanied by powerful lieutenants, can now chuck a plethora of nasty fire spells at will, and is surrounded by so many respawning {{Mook}}s that the fight becomes TheWarSequence on top of everything else.



*** Nashkel Mines in Chapter 2. Though not an especially difficult dungeon, it does serve as the point where a) your entire party needs to have attained at LEAST level 2 by now (if not level 3) and b) have gotten a pretty firm grasp of the game's mechanics, such as keeping everyone together in enclosed spaces, being on regular lookout for traps, and not putting your [[SquishyWizard squishier mages]] in harm's way of the Kobold Archers and especially the Commandoes, who can easily destroy a lvl 1 party. Thankfully, there's plenty for the player to do in terms of sidequests that would allow them to quickly prepare and surpass the dangers the mines presents. Going too early, on the other hand...
*** The Cloakwood Forest of Chapter 4. The entire place is about 4 locations in total, plus the Cloakwood Mines at the end, and each area is filled to the brim with {{Demonic Spiders}} of all shapes and sizes (sometimes literally, as in the case of Cloakwood Area 2). Even a sufficiently leveled party will have to be extremely careful here as the challenges can still rip them apart.
*** The Catacombs below Candlekeep in Chapter 6. Not only are you unable to return to Candlekeep at all by the time you enter, meaning you're unable to prepare for it otherwise if you're ill-equipped or under leveled, but the multiple floors are filled with difficult enemies and traps EVERYWHERE. Better hope you have a thief who's leveled their Find Traps ability sufficiently, or you could find yourself having to tank every trap in the place.
*** Thieves' Maze from Chapter 7. While it's effectively the final dungeon before the very end of the game, it's an enormous maze filled with Skeletal Champions, who can easily destroy even high level characters despite wielding only +1 two-handed swords. Oh and like most of the other major dungeons, there's deadly traps everywhere. Also, being a maze means the hallways are very cramped and confusing for your characters to navigate, let alone actually try fighting in.

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*** Nashkel Mines in Chapter 2. Though not an especially difficult dungeon, it does serve as the point where a) your entire party needs to have attained at LEAST least level 2 by now (if not level 3) and b) have gotten a pretty firm grasp of the game's mechanics, such as keeping everyone together in enclosed spaces, being on regular lookout for traps, and not putting your [[SquishyWizard squishier mages]] in harm's way of the Kobold Archers and especially the Commandoes, Commandos, who can easily destroy a lvl level 1 party. Thankfully, there's plenty for the player to do in terms of sidequests that would allow them to quickly prepare and surpass the dangers the mines presents. Going too early, on the other hand...\n
*** The Cloakwood Forest of Chapter 4. The entire place is about 4 locations in total, plus the Cloakwood Mines at the end, and each area is filled to the brim with {{Demonic Spiders}} DemonicSpiders of all shapes and sizes (sometimes literally, as in the case of Cloakwood Area 2). Even a sufficiently leveled party will have to be extremely careful here as the challenges can still rip them apart.
*** The Catacombs below Candlekeep in Chapter 6. Not only are you unable to return to Candlekeep at all by the time you enter, meaning you're unable to prepare for it otherwise if you're ill-equipped or under leveled, but the multiple floors are filled with difficult enemies and traps EVERYWHERE. Better hope you have riddled with traps. Without a thief who's leveled their Thief with sufficient points in Find Traps ability sufficiently, or you could can easily find yourself having to tank every trap in the place.
there.
*** Thieves' Maze from Chapter 7. While it's effectively the final dungeon before the very end of the game, it's an enormous maze filled with Skeletal Champions, who can easily destroy even high level characters despite wielding only +1 two-handed swords. Oh and like Like most of the other major dungeons, there's there are deadly traps everywhere. Also, being a maze means the hallways are very cramped and confusing for your characters to navigate, let alone actually try fighting in.



*** Probably to nobody's surprise, Durlag's Tower, as would be expected of the game's major {{Bonus Dungeon}}. Traps EVERYWHERE, puzzles that tread a VERY thin line sometimes between being practical and logical...and outright {{Moon Logic Puzzle}} at worst, and some of the most powerful enemies the Sword Coast has to offer. While there's AMAZING loot to be had, you will work for every bit of it. Did we mention that the dwarf who made the tower this way went completely batshit insane and was said to have "built madness into its walls"?

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*** Probably to nobody's surprise, Durlag's Tower, as would be expected of the game's major {{Bonus Dungeon}}. BonusDungeon. Traps EVERYWHERE, everywhere, puzzles that tread a VERY very thin line sometimes between being practical and logical...and logical, or outright {{Moon Logic Puzzle}} MoonLogicPuzzle design at worst, and some of the most powerful enemies the Sword Coast has to offer. While there's AMAZING some very good loot to be had, you will work for every bit of it. Did we mention that the dwarf who made the tower this way went completely batshit insane and was said to have "built madness into its walls"?it.



*** The Underdark is a very cool section of the game, given that you will find yourself dealing with some of the most iconic creatures in D&D in the form of Beholders, Mind Flayers, and Drow, but it can still be a trial and a half to get through. Assuming you take on the silver dragon, Adalon's, quest to find her missing eggs, you'll be infiltrating Ust Natha in Drow disguise, where the slightest misstep will blow your cover and leave you standing toe to toe ''with the whole freakin city out for your blood'' (ignoring Adalon or just killing her results in the same). Trying to keep up your disguise is what makes the segment so difficult, especially at the point where you must get an item from either the Kuo-Toa, the Beholders, or the Mind Flayers and are on a very ''STRICT'' time limit to do so, else you'll be figured out, and all three options are their own brand of hell if you're not prepared for them.
* ThatOnePuzzle:
** The chessboard fight at the end of the third basement floor in Durlag's Tower seems to be ''trying'' to be some sort of forced tactical battle puzzle. Unfortunately it has several issues. Your party of one-to-six adventurers can only move like certain chess pieces lest they trip infinite, invisible deadly traps, but it's not clear who represents what piece, and the AI will stupidly run all over the board if given half a chance. The opposing AI force has a full compliment of 16 pieces, a deadly assortment of high-level melee fighters, spellcasters and archers, unrestricted movement, and will immediately charge as a giant mob the second one of your characters moves a step forward. The end result is being stuck with a party you can't move (unless you get 100% electricity resistance and know where to avoid the non-lightening trapped tiles) while a giant army of end-game enemies stampedes towards you.
** That said, there is a very easy trick to defeat them, ''if you know that they are there''. Just have your mages throw Fireballs or other area damage spells (or some of those ''Wands of Fire'' that you should have picked up in and around the tower) at the enemy's direction until they are all dead, and the AI won't react. The chessboard also happens to be one of very few places where you can rest your party without the risk of being attacked by something, so if you run out of spells, you can just go to sleep.

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*** The Underdark is a very cool section of the game, given that you will find yourself dealing with some of the most iconic creatures in D&D in the form of Beholders, Mind Flayers, and Drow, but it can still be a trial and a half to get through. Assuming you take on the silver dragon, Adalon's, quest to find her missing eggs, you'll be infiltrating Ust Natha in Drow disguise, where the slightest misstep will blow your cover and leave you standing toe to toe ''with the whole freakin city out for your blood'' (ignoring Adalon or just killing her results in the same). Trying to keep up your disguise is what makes the segment so difficult, especially at the point where you must get an item from either the Kuo-Toa, the Beholders, or the Mind Flayers and are on a very ''STRICT'' strict time limit to do so, else you'll be figured out, and all three options are their own brand of hell if you're not prepared for them.
* ThatOnePuzzle:
**
ThatOnePuzzle: The chessboard fight at the end of the third basement floor in Durlag's Tower seems to be ''trying'' to be some sort of forced tactical battle puzzle. Unfortunately it has several issues.Tower. Your party of one-to-six adventurers can only move like certain chess pieces lest they trip infinite, invisible deadly traps, but it's not clear who represents what piece, and the AI will stupidly run all over the board if given half a chance. The opposing AI force has a full compliment of 16 pieces, a deadly assortment of high-level melee fighters, spellcasters and archers, unrestricted movement, and will immediately charge as a giant mob the second one of your characters moves a step forward. The end result is being stuck with a party you can't reliably move (unless you get 100% electricity resistance and know where to avoid the non-lightening trapped tiles) while a giant army of end-game enemies stampedes towards you.
** That said, there is a very easy trick
you. It ''is'' possible to defeat them, ''if you know that they are there''. Just have your mages throw Fireballs or other win the encounter by attacking with area damage of effect spells (or some from outside enemy line of those ''Wands of Fire'' that you should have picked up in sight, but it entirely sidesteps the presented challenge and around the tower) at the enemy's direction until they are all dead, and the AI won't react. The chessboard also happens to be one of very few places where you can rest your party without the risk of being attacked by something, so if you run out of spells, you can just go to sleep.be unsatisfying.
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* StoryBranchFavoritism: The game slightly favours Lawful Good and particularly Paladins over other character options, with a few occasions where Lawful Good characters can do things others cannot and some of the most powerful magic weapons being only usable by Paladins.
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** Umber Hulks also fit into this category, as despite having an easily exploited WeaksauceWeakness they are exceedingly fast and their ability to stun targets at a distance can easily cripple a party if you're unlucky, low-level or ill-prepared.

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** Umber Hulks also fit into this category, as despite having an easily exploited WeaksauceWeakness WeaksauceWeakness[[note]]Their low health makes them susceptible to Death Spell and Cloudkill, which otherwise stop working past a certain health threshold.[[/note]]) they are exceedingly fast and their ability to stun targets at a distance can easily cripple a party if you're unlucky, low-level or ill-prepared.
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Examples Are Not Arguable. If a trope goes on YMMV, it shouldn't be there at all.


* DeconstructorFleet:
** It's not immediately obvious, but ''Baldur's Gate'' masterfully deconstructs typical character clichés:
*** Imoen is a fairly realistic take on how a TagAlongKid would fare in such a fantasy world (she would get herself in ''huge'' danger and almost killed).
*** Aerie deconstructs the image of the WhiteMagicianGirl, who doesn't get nearly as much help and compassion as she would in other stories and is seen as {{Wangst}}y.
*** Anomen and Keldorn deconstruct the archetype of the KnightInShiningArmor by showing that life doesn't just consist of slaying Dragons and strictly following a BadassCreed and can occasionally be arrogant and judgmental.
*** Valygar, instead of getting accepted as the brooding, mysterious ByronicHero, gets MistakenForGay and has to deal with his DarkAndTroubledPast anyways.
*** Jan, instead of being flat PluckyComicRelief, turns out to be SmarterThanYouLook and only capable of having survived so long because of how smart he is.
*** Viconia deconstructs JerkassWoobie by showing that her life might suck for reasons she has no control over, but that's not an excuse for her behavior (in fact, her fall from Lloth came not from a desire for goodness, but due to the fact that she believed a child was not a worthy sacrifice, and it was disobeying the goddess that caused her to flee).
*** Edwin proves that an eccentric and CowardlySidekick is ''not'' going to be successful in life.
*** Korgan, seemingly being an {{Expy}} of a HackAndSlash protagonist, demonstrates that there isn't a place for AxCrazy people in society, no matter how good they are at hacking and slashing.
*** Cernd debunks the idea of a [[TheSmartGuy Smart Guy]] who speaks entirely in parables, with some people confused by his misplaced metaphors and some treating him like a moron.
*** Nalia’s anachronistic ideas about egalitarianism and democracy in a country which has been an arch-feudalistic aristocracy throughout history struggle to find sympathetic ears, and tends to think too highly of what she does.
*** Yoshimo makes light of the dashing GentlemanThief role by demonstrating [[spoiler:you can't really rely on him in a pinch]] and being less sure on his feet than he likes to suggest, not to mention being incredibly suspicious.
*** Eldoth deconstructs the LovableRogue trope by being a GoldDigger, a raging sexist and intolerably cruel towards his girlfriend.
*** That girlfriend, Skie. demonstrates how a RebelliousPrincess without formal combat training would not fare well on the road and her lack of world experience leaves her open to exploitation.
*** Garrick demonstrates that being [[NiceGuy well-meaning and a good person]] doesn't make the ladies want you, and as a dashing bard he's [[QuirkyBard more than a little lacking]].
*** Shar-Teel deconstructs the FeministFantasy type of character by showing her to be little more than a violent bigoted brute who only gets saved from death because her father helps her.
*** [[StoneWall Kagain]] should be glad that he's a legitimately good tank, otherwise people wouldn't have tolerated his greed and he'd be out of job. About the only one who plays any classic tropes straight is Minsc, but then again, as Dynaheir says, "Minsc is... well, [[TooDumbToFool Minsc]]."
** The Enhanced Edition characters also deconstruct DumbMuscle, ManicPixieDreamGirl, BlessedWithSuck, ItsPersonal and even [[spoiler: FriendlyNeighbourhoodVampires]], along with other character archetypes. Dorn, contrary to the image of half-orcs as simple-minded, brutish thugs, is intelligent, charismatic and well-spoken, and he can be persuaded to abandon being a blackguard to focus on his personal freedom; Neera acknowledges the dangers associated with WildMagic and wants to find a way to control it, but also enjoys having random, whimsical powers that are full of surprises, and makes it clear that there are many things that upset her but she chooses not to vocalize those feelings too much, preferring to be cheerful and easygoing because it's more social; Rasaad is as kind and just as you'd expect from a WarriorMonk, but his once strong faith in Selune has been shaken by the death of his brother and the repeated triumph of his rival, and his pursuit of revenge, although sympathetic, is discredited by the immense losses he has suffered as a result; [[spoiler:finally, as a vampire, Hexxat is almost universally reviled -- it would be easier to count the people who ''don't'' leave, try to attack her or express concern about her presence than those who do -- and she assures the player her enhanced power and abilities are not worth the loss of her soul, and what she wants the most is to die]].
** This isn't even getting into how Charname will inevitably experience first-hand how having superpowers and divine heritage ''[[ItSucksToBeTheChosenOne sucks]]''.
** On the villainous side, Sarevok takes a hammer and tongs to every stereotype about Chaotic Evil antagonists. Rather than being a [[ChewingTheScenery scenery-devouring]], [[AxCrazy mentally-unhinged]] lunatic, Sarevok is scary precisely because he ''isn't'' like that -- unless he gets '''really''' angry, that is. Despite being a warrior, he's a clever and calculating bad guy who ''refuses'' to grab the VillainBall and manages to not only evade the player's notice while bouncing back from their every success, but also to direct their hostility towards his father and then frame them for his death; he might have succeeded in his EvilPlan if his opponent was the leader of a greenhorn adventuring party and not [[TheAce Charname]]. Irenicus has his moments as well, such as [[DefiedTrope refusing]] to engage the player in any "[[JustBetweenYouAndMe villain's exposition]]", deciding to just [[JustEatGilligan wipe the player's party]] with a OneHitKill unless they take the precaution of [[GondorCallsForAid getting help]] and [[MotiveRant making it clear]] to Ellesime that love ''doesn't'' [[LoveRedeems redeem the baddie]] -- [[spoiler:especially when said baddie has no soul to feel that love with]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
renamed to Clone Angst


** [[TortureTechnician Irenicus]] and [[BreakTheCutie Imoen]]… [[{{Squick}} ugh!]] Irenicus and anybody, for that matter, if you remember [[CloningBlues those clones]] or [[SpiderPeople Centeol]] from the first game…

to:

** [[TortureTechnician Irenicus]] and [[BreakTheCutie Imoen]]… [[{{Squick}} ugh!]] Irenicus and anybody, for that matter, if you remember [[CloningBlues those clones]] clones or [[SpiderPeople Centeol]] from the first game…
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* EnsembleDarkhorse: Some companions are more memorable than others, including:
** Imoen, in sort of an inversion of a CreatorsPet. The writers wrote her in at the last minute due to feedback about the early game being too challenging, and in fact [[spoiler:wanted to kill her off in the second game]], but she was so popular with fans that they reconsidered.
** [[StoneWall Kagain]] was [[HiddenCharacter difficult to find]] back in the day but his extremely high Constitution and ability to wear the best armour made him best tank in the first game, which gave him lasting popularity. He's also just [[ALighterShadeOfBlack mildly evil]], [[TokenEvilTeammate making him popular even to good aligned parties]].
** Paladins tend not to be particularly popular characters in these types of stories, being cartoonishly uptight, cardboard [[KnightInShiningArmor Knights In Shining Armor]] most of the time, but lots of players feel Keldorn's an extremely well-written character who retains the essence of the character type while subverting the flatter and more stereotypical aspects of it. Gods bless the VideoGameCaringPotential. And now there are even mods making him a possible [[MayDecemberRomance romance option]]!

to:

* EnsembleDarkhorse: Some companions are more memorable than others, including:
EnsembleDarkhorse:
** Imoen, in sort of an inversion of a CreatorsPet. The writers wrote her in at the last minute due to feedback about the early game of the first game being too challenging, challenging -- in fact, she has no banter dialogue and in fact [[spoiler:wanted all her voice barks are spliced together from another, cut NPC! The developers wanted to kill her off in the second game]], game, but she was so popular with fans that they reconsidered.
** [[StoneWall Kagain]] was [[HiddenCharacter difficult to find]] back in the day but his extremely high Constitution and ability to wear the best armour made him best tank in the first game, which gave him lasting popularity. He's also just [[ALighterShadeOfBlack mildly evil]], evil]], making him popular [[TokenEvilTeammate making him popular even to good aligned parties]].
** Paladins tend not to be particularly popular characters in these types of stories, being cartoonishly uptight, cardboard [[KnightInShiningArmor Knights In Shining Armor]] most of the time, but lots of players feel Keldorn's an extremely a well-written character who retains the essence of the character type while subverting the flatter and more stereotypical aspects of it. Gods bless the VideoGameCaringPotential. And now there There are even mods making him a possible [[MayDecemberRomance romance option]]!



** Among the EE companions, Dorn seem to the most popular, because of his usefulness, largely averting half-orc stereotypes and having EvilIsCool written all over him.

to:

** Among the EE ''Enhanced Edition'' companions, Dorn seem to the most popular, because of his usefulness, largely averting half-orc stereotypes and having EvilIsCool written all over him.



** Hexxart is the only lesbian love interest in the game and a tragic vampire as well.

to:

** Hexxart Hexxat is the only lesbian love interest in the game and a tragic vampire as well.



** Charname[[note]]From the code used in the scripts to stand in for their player-given name[[/note]] for the Bhaalspawn; kensage for a dual-classed kensai/mage; swashy for a swashbuckler.

to:

** Charname[[note]]From "Charname"[[note]]From the code used in the scripts to stand in for their player-given name[[/note]] for the Bhaalspawn; kensage for a dual-classed kensai/mage; swashy for a swashbuckler.



* FanonDiscontinuity: Fans of the games are generally of the opinion that ''the novels don't exist''. Mainly due to the novels making the plot more generic and the novel's characters being less interesting and ''far'' less likable than their game counterparts, which is compounded by the third book going out of its way to callously kill off any remaining party members. Another sore point is the protagonist of the novels, a generic male human fighter whom the fans see as a DesignatedHero and all-around {{Jerkass}}.

to:

* FanonDiscontinuity: Fans of the games are generally of the opinion that ''the the novels don't exist''. exist. Mainly due to the novels making the plot more generic and the novel's characters being less interesting and ''far'' far less likable than their game counterparts, which is compounded by the third book going out of its way to callously kill off any remaining party members. Another sore point is the protagonist of the novels, a generic male human fighter whom the fans see as a DesignatedHero and all-around {{Jerkass}}.

Added: 869

Changed: 5764

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
adding some relevant stuff


* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: This is a criticism sometimes leveled against the first game, especially when compared to the [[SeinfeldIsUnfunny second game]]. As while it does have some fairly memorable characters, at the same time, their whole personalities and interactions with others are contained on just their voice lines. Which by the mid-game, the player will already have heard it all. It's so bad that there are entire ''mods'' made to fix that.
* While justified in that the transition from the more quantity-driven first game to the far more intricate storytelling of the second would result in several familiar characters being cut -- and not to mention the implausibility of the entire cast moving south to Amn -- several popular and interesting party members from the first game were left out of [=BG2=] with nary a reference given to them.
** Kivan is a prime example. He was a memorable character and arguably the best archer in the game, with a distinct, gruff personality and some interesting racial (and moral) conflict with Viconia. His ArchEnemy Tazok even survived the first game, reappearing as a minor villain in the second. Kivan himself was neither seen nor heard of in the second game.
** Xan too. One of the most iconic ''Baldur's Gate'' characters for his bleak, laughably nihilistic outlook and unique quirks (that awesome [[CoolSword moonblade]], anyone?), he was DemotedToExtra in the second, not appearing outside of the tutorial.
** Several [=BG1=] characters who ''did'' appear in the second game were treated to somewhat [[DroppedABridgeOnHim ignominious fates]]. While done very well with some characters (Faldorn, for example, was a much better-characterized individual in the second game, despite becoming a ruthless villain in the doing; even Tiax, while never a particularly serious character, actually had a fitting role to play in [=BG2=], and even had an ill-fated showdown with the BigBad), others reappeared simply to give the odd quest, shrug off any questions about their current status, and to die in short order. [[spoiler:Safana, Montaron, Xar, Ajantis (whom you're actually responsible for killing, despite not knowing it), etc.]] Some of it evokes quite a bit of pity and feels rather well done, adding to the AnyoneCanDie mechanics, though some felt it became excessive and predictable, especially if you had prior knowledge of who exactly the [=BG2=] party members would be.
** Coran could also be added to the list of [[DroppedABridgeOnHim ignominious fates]], because he can be killed off very easily in the ensuing battle when you finally find him. Players quickly discovered that casting a spell (Minor Globe of Invulnerability) on him would cause him to survive, but it's fairly clear the devs really wanted him to be killed off because his health is set rather low. (Rumor has it that it was to "flip the bird" at a [[{{Jerkass}} very obnoxious board visitor]] who wanted Coran in the game and who used the name "Lanfear" as her handle.
** Outside of a few plot moments in [=BG2=], Imoen has virtually no post-Spellhold content or banters, which is jarring considering how the first third of the main plot revolves around reaching Spellhold to rescue her[[note]]Though this is partially because [[ShootTheShaggyDog she was planned to die in Spellhold]], a decision that was only reversed late in development[[/note]]. ''Throne of Bhaal'' isn't much better, only giving her a handful of lines and glossing over the implications of her Bhaalspawn nature in favor of Charname and The Five. Many fans consider it a waste to not have explored the effects of her torture at the hands on Irenicus, her sibling connection to Charname, or her potential powers as a Bhaalspawn. The missed potential resulted in several mods (including one that adds a romance plotline) created solely for fleshing her character out.

to:

* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter:
**
This is a criticism sometimes leveled against the first game, game's cast, especially when compared to the [[SeinfeldIsUnfunny second game]]. As while it does have some fairly memorable characters, at the same time, their whole personalities and most of their interactions with others are contained on just their voice lines. Which lines, which by the mid-game, the player will already have heard it all. It's so bad And the banters that there have become characteristic of the second game are so rare that the player might only see ''one'' of them on an entire ''mods'' playthrough. And we're not even getting on how the characters will have [[UnusuallyUninterestingSight no reaction at all to any of the events of the plot,]] even things that ''should'' warrant a reaction to them (such as CHARNAME numerous murder attempts, which not even Imoen seems to be concerned). It speaks for itself that ''[[FixFic an entire mod]]'' was made to fix that.
*
add more banter and character reactions to the events of the plot.
**
While justified in that the transition from the more quantity-driven first game to the far more intricate storytelling of the second would result in several familiar characters being cut -- and not to mention the implausibility of the entire cast moving south to Amn -- several popular and interesting party members from the first game were left out of [=BG2=] with nary a reference given to them.
** *** Kivan is a prime example. He was a memorable character and arguably the best archer in the game, with a distinct, gruff personality and some interesting racial (and moral) conflict with Viconia. His ArchEnemy Tazok even survived the first game, reappearing as a minor villain in the second. Kivan himself was neither seen nor heard of in the second game.
** *** Xan too. One of the most iconic ''Baldur's Gate'' characters for his bleak, laughably nihilistic outlook and unique quirks (that awesome [[CoolSword moonblade]], anyone?), he was DemotedToExtra in the second, not appearing outside of the tutorial.
** *** Several [=BG1=] characters who ''did'' appear in the second game were treated to somewhat [[DroppedABridgeOnHim ignominious fates]]. While done very well with some characters (Faldorn, for example, was a much better-characterized individual in the second game, despite becoming a ruthless villain in the doing; even Tiax, while never a particularly serious character, actually had a fitting role to play in [=BG2=], and even had an ill-fated showdown with the BigBad), others reappeared simply to give the odd quest, shrug off any questions about their current status, and to die in short order. [[spoiler:Safana, Montaron, Xar, Ajantis (whom you're actually responsible for killing, despite not knowing it), etc.]] Some of it evokes quite a bit of pity and feels rather well done, adding to the AnyoneCanDie mechanics, though some felt it became excessive and predictable, especially if you had prior knowledge of who exactly the [=BG2=] party members would be.
** *** Coran could also be added to the list of [[DroppedABridgeOnHim ignominious fates]], because he can be killed off very easily in the ensuing battle when you finally find him. Players quickly discovered that casting a spell (Minor Globe of Invulnerability) on him would cause him to survive, but it's fairly clear the devs really wanted him to be killed off because his health is set rather low. (Rumor has it that it was to "flip the bird" at a [[{{Jerkass}} very obnoxious board visitor]] who wanted Coran in the game and who used the name "Lanfear" as her handle.
** *** Outside of a few plot moments in [=BG2=], Imoen has virtually no post-Spellhold content or banters, which is jarring considering how the first third of the main plot revolves around reaching Spellhold to rescue her[[note]]Though this is partially because [[ShootTheShaggyDog she was planned to die in Spellhold]], a decision that was only reversed late in development[[/note]]. ''Throne of Bhaal'' isn't much better, only giving her a handful of lines and glossing over the implications of her Bhaalspawn nature in favor of Charname and The Five. Many fans consider it a waste to not have explored the effects of her torture at the hands on Irenicus, her sibling connection to Charname, or her potential powers as a Bhaalspawn. The missed potential resulted in several mods (including one that adds a romance plotline) created solely for fleshing her character out.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Correcting some stuff


* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: This is a criticism sometimes leveled against the first game, especially when compared to the[[SeinfieldIsUnfunny second game]]. As while it does have some fairly memorable characters, at the same time, their whole personalities and interactions with others are contained on just their voice lines. Which by the mid-game, the player will already have heard it all. It's so bad that there are entire ''mods'' made to fix that.
** While justified in that the transition from the more quantity-driven first game to the far more intricate storytelling of the second would result in several familiar characters being cut -- and not to mention the implausibility of the entire cast moving south to Amn -- several popular and interesting party members from the first game were left out of [=BG2=] with nary a reference given to them.
*** Kivan is a prime example. He was a memorable character and arguably the best archer in the game, with a distinct, gruff personality and some interesting racial (and moral) conflict with Viconia. His ArchEnemy Tazok even survived the first game, reappearing as a minor villain in the second. Kivan himself was neither seen nor heard of in the second game.
*** Xan too. One of the most iconic ''Baldur's Gate'' characters for his bleak, laughably nihilistic outlook and unique quirks (that awesome [[CoolSword moonblade]], anyone?), he was DemotedToExtra in the second, not appearing outside of the tutorial.
*** Several [=BG1=] characters who ''did'' appear in the second game were treated to somewhat [[DroppedABridgeOnHim ignominious fates]]. While done very well with some characters (Faldorn, for example, was a much better-characterized individual in the second game, despite becoming a ruthless villain in the doing; even Tiax, while never a particularly serious character, actually had a fitting role to play in [=BG2=], and even had an ill-fated showdown with the BigBad), others reappeared simply to give the odd quest, shrug off any questions about their current status, and to die in short order. [[spoiler:Safana, Montaron, Xar, Ajantis (whom you're actually responsible for killing, despite not knowing it), etc.]] Some of it evokes quite a bit of pity and feels rather well done, adding to the AnyoneCanDie mechanics, though some felt it became excessive and predictable, especially if you had prior knowledge of who exactly the [=BG2=] party members would be.
*** Coran could also be added to the list of [[DroppedABridgeOnHim ignominious fates]], because he can be killed off very easily in the ensuing battle when you finally find him. Players quickly discovered that casting a spell (Minor Globe of Invulnerability) on him would cause him to survive, but it's fairly clear the devs really wanted him to be killed off because his health is set rather low. (Rumor has it that it was to "flip the bird" at a [[{{Jerkass}} very obnoxious board visitor]] who wanted Coran in the game and who used the name "Lanfear" as her handle.
*** Outside of a few plot moments in [=BG2=], Imoen has virtually no post-Spellhold content or banters, which is jarring considering how the first third of the main plot revolves around reaching Spellhold to rescue her[[note]]Though this is partially because [[ShootTheShaggyDog she was planned to die in Spellhold]], a decision that was only reversed late in development[[/note]]. ''Throne of Bhaal'' isn't much better, only giving her a handful of lines and glossing over the implications of her Bhaalspawn nature in favor of Charname and The Five. Many fans consider it a waste to not have explored the effects of her torture at the hands on Irenicus, her sibling connection to Charname, or her potential powers as a Bhaalspawn. The missed potential resulted in several mods (including one that adds a romance plotline) created solely for fleshing her character out.

to:

* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: This is a criticism sometimes leveled against the first game, especially when compared to the[[SeinfieldIsUnfunny the [[SeinfeldIsUnfunny second game]]. As while it does have some fairly memorable characters, at the same time, their whole personalities and interactions with others are contained on just their voice lines. Which by the mid-game, the player will already have heard it all. It's so bad that there are entire ''mods'' made to fix that.
** * While justified in that the transition from the more quantity-driven first game to the far more intricate storytelling of the second would result in several familiar characters being cut -- and not to mention the implausibility of the entire cast moving south to Amn -- several popular and interesting party members from the first game were left out of [=BG2=] with nary a reference given to them.
*** ** Kivan is a prime example. He was a memorable character and arguably the best archer in the game, with a distinct, gruff personality and some interesting racial (and moral) conflict with Viconia. His ArchEnemy Tazok even survived the first game, reappearing as a minor villain in the second. Kivan himself was neither seen nor heard of in the second game.
*** ** Xan too. One of the most iconic ''Baldur's Gate'' characters for his bleak, laughably nihilistic outlook and unique quirks (that awesome [[CoolSword moonblade]], anyone?), he was DemotedToExtra in the second, not appearing outside of the tutorial.
*** ** Several [=BG1=] characters who ''did'' appear in the second game were treated to somewhat [[DroppedABridgeOnHim ignominious fates]]. While done very well with some characters (Faldorn, for example, was a much better-characterized individual in the second game, despite becoming a ruthless villain in the doing; even Tiax, while never a particularly serious character, actually had a fitting role to play in [=BG2=], and even had an ill-fated showdown with the BigBad), others reappeared simply to give the odd quest, shrug off any questions about their current status, and to die in short order. [[spoiler:Safana, Montaron, Xar, Ajantis (whom you're actually responsible for killing, despite not knowing it), etc.]] Some of it evokes quite a bit of pity and feels rather well done, adding to the AnyoneCanDie mechanics, though some felt it became excessive and predictable, especially if you had prior knowledge of who exactly the [=BG2=] party members would be.
*** ** Coran could also be added to the list of [[DroppedABridgeOnHim ignominious fates]], because he can be killed off very easily in the ensuing battle when you finally find him. Players quickly discovered that casting a spell (Minor Globe of Invulnerability) on him would cause him to survive, but it's fairly clear the devs really wanted him to be killed off because his health is set rather low. (Rumor has it that it was to "flip the bird" at a [[{{Jerkass}} very obnoxious board visitor]] who wanted Coran in the game and who used the name "Lanfear" as her handle.
*** ** Outside of a few plot moments in [=BG2=], Imoen has virtually no post-Spellhold content or banters, which is jarring considering how the first third of the main plot revolves around reaching Spellhold to rescue her[[note]]Though this is partially because [[ShootTheShaggyDog she was planned to die in Spellhold]], a decision that was only reversed late in development[[/note]]. ''Throne of Bhaal'' isn't much better, only giving her a handful of lines and glossing over the implications of her Bhaalspawn nature in favor of Charname and The Five. Many fans consider it a waste to not have explored the effects of her torture at the hands on Irenicus, her sibling connection to Charname, or her potential powers as a Bhaalspawn. The missed potential resulted in several mods (including one that adds a romance plotline) created solely for fleshing her character out.

Added: 869

Changed: 5039

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
adding some relevant stuff


* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: While justified in that the transition from the more quantity-driven first game to the far more intricate storytelling of the second would result in several familiar characters being cut -- and not to mention the implausibility of the entire cast moving south to Amn -- several popular and interesting party members from the first game were left out of [=BG2=] with nary a reference given to them.
** Kivan is a prime example. He was a memorable character and arguably the best archer in the game, with a distinct, gruff personality and some interesting racial (and moral) conflict with Viconia. His ArchEnemy Tazok even survived the first game, reappearing as a minor villain in the second. Kivan himself was neither seen nor heard of in the second game.
** Xan too. One of the most iconic ''Baldur's Gate'' characters for his bleak, laughably nihilistic outlook and unique quirks (that awesome [[CoolSword moonblade]], anyone?), he was DemotedToExtra in the second, not appearing outside of the tutorial.
** Several [=BG1=] characters who ''did'' appear in the second game were treated to somewhat [[DroppedABridgeOnHim ignominious fates]]. While done very well with some characters (Faldorn, for example, was a much better-characterized individual in the second game, despite becoming a ruthless villain in the doing; even Tiax, while never a particularly serious character, actually had a fitting role to play in [=BG2=], and even had an ill-fated showdown with the BigBad), others reappeared simply to give the odd quest, shrug off any questions about their current status, and to die in short order. [[spoiler:Safana, Montaron, Xar, Ajantis (whom you're actually responsible for killing, despite not knowing it), etc.]] Some of it evokes quite a bit of pity and feels rather well done, adding to the AnyoneCanDie mechanics, though some felt it became excessive and predictable, especially if you had prior knowledge of who exactly the [=BG2=] party members would be.
*** Coran could also be added to the list of [[DroppedABridgeOnHim ignominious fates]], because he can be killed off very easily in the ensuing battle when you finally find him. Players quickly discovered that casting a spell (Minor Globe of Invulnerability) on him would cause him to survive, but it's fairly clear the devs really wanted him to be killed off because his health is set rather low. (Rumor has it that it was to "flip the bird" at a [[{{Jerkass}} very obnoxious board visitor]] who wanted Coran in the game and who used the name "Lanfear" as her handle.
** Outside of a few plot moments in [=BG2=], Imoen has virtually no post-Spellhold content or banters, which is jarring considering how the first third of the main plot revolves around reaching Spellhold to rescue her[[note]]Though this is partially because [[ShootTheShaggyDog she was planned to die in Spellhold]], a decision that was only reversed late in development[[/note]]. ''Throne of Bhaal'' isn't much better, only giving her a handful of lines and glossing over the implications of her Bhaalspawn nature in favor of Charname and The Five. Many fans consider it a waste to not have explored the effects of her torture at the hands on Irenicus, her sibling connection to Charname, or her potential powers as a Bhaalspawn. The missed potential resulted in several mods (including one that adds a romance plotline) created solely for fleshing her character out.

to:

* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: While This is a criticism sometimes leveled against the first game, especially when compared to the[[SeinfieldIsUnfunny second game]]. As while it does have some fairly memorable characters, at the same time, their whole personalities and interactions with others are contained on just their voice lines. Which by the mid-game, the player will already have heard it all. It's so bad that there are entire ''mods'' made to fix that.
**While
justified in that the transition from the more quantity-driven first game to the far more intricate storytelling of the second would result in several familiar characters being cut -- and not to mention the implausibility of the entire cast moving south to Amn -- several popular and interesting party members from the first game were left out of [=BG2=] with nary a reference given to them.
** *** Kivan is a prime example. He was a memorable character and arguably the best archer in the game, with a distinct, gruff personality and some interesting racial (and moral) conflict with Viconia. His ArchEnemy Tazok even survived the first game, reappearing as a minor villain in the second. Kivan himself was neither seen nor heard of in the second game.
** *** Xan too. One of the most iconic ''Baldur's Gate'' characters for his bleak, laughably nihilistic outlook and unique quirks (that awesome [[CoolSword moonblade]], anyone?), he was DemotedToExtra in the second, not appearing outside of the tutorial.
** *** Several [=BG1=] characters who ''did'' appear in the second game were treated to somewhat [[DroppedABridgeOnHim ignominious fates]]. While done very well with some characters (Faldorn, for example, was a much better-characterized individual in the second game, despite becoming a ruthless villain in the doing; even Tiax, while never a particularly serious character, actually had a fitting role to play in [=BG2=], and even had an ill-fated showdown with the BigBad), others reappeared simply to give the odd quest, shrug off any questions about their current status, and to die in short order. [[spoiler:Safana, Montaron, Xar, Ajantis (whom you're actually responsible for killing, despite not knowing it), etc.]] Some of it evokes quite a bit of pity and feels rather well done, adding to the AnyoneCanDie mechanics, though some felt it became excessive and predictable, especially if you had prior knowledge of who exactly the [=BG2=] party members would be.
*** **** Coran could also be added to the list of [[DroppedABridgeOnHim ignominious fates]], because he can be killed off very easily in the ensuing battle when you finally find him. Players quickly discovered that casting a spell (Minor Globe of Invulnerability) on him would cause him to survive, but it's fairly clear the devs really wanted him to be killed off because his health is set rather low. (Rumor has it that it was to "flip the bird" at a [[{{Jerkass}} very obnoxious board visitor]] who wanted Coran in the game and who used the name "Lanfear" as her handle.
** *** Outside of a few plot moments in [=BG2=], Imoen has virtually no post-Spellhold content or banters, which is jarring considering how the first third of the main plot revolves around reaching Spellhold to rescue her[[note]]Though this is partially because [[ShootTheShaggyDog she was planned to die in Spellhold]], a decision that was only reversed late in development[[/note]]. ''Throne of Bhaal'' isn't much better, only giving her a handful of lines and glossing over the implications of her Bhaalspawn nature in favor of Charname and The Five. Many fans consider it a waste to not have explored the effects of her torture at the hands on Irenicus, her sibling connection to Charname, or her potential powers as a Bhaalspawn. The missed potential resulted in several mods (including one that adds a romance plotline) created solely for fleshing her character out.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** In ''Throne of Bhaal'', [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXkcoIWRUrY the non-combat track played outside of Yaga Shura's lair]] sounds like it came straight from ''Film/ConanTheBarbarian1982''. The late part soun like a mashup of

to:

** In ''Throne of Bhaal'', [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXkcoIWRUrY the non-combat track played outside of Yaga Shura's lair]] sounds like it came straight from ''Film/ConanTheBarbarian1982''. The late part soun like a mashup of

Added: 233

Changed: 16

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
The links provided for compairing two tracks both directed to the exact same video


* SuspiciouslySimilarSong: Michael Hoenig's composition [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsV7TuNMr5M "Attacked by Assassins"]] in the first game is almost identical to the [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsV7TuNMr5M main theme]] of ''Film/Lifeforce'' by Henry Mancini that it's a surprise why no lawyers were involved.

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* SuspiciouslySimilarSong: Michael Hoenig's composition [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsV7TuNMr5M com/watch?v=Q5xyTZTlrXM "Attacked by Assassins"]] in the first game is almost identical to the [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsV7TuNMr5M main theme]] of ''Film/Lifeforce'' by Henry Mancini that it's a surprise why no lawyers were involved.involved.
** In ''Throne of Bhaal'', [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXkcoIWRUrY the non-combat track played outside of Yaga Shura's lair]] sounds like it came straight from ''Film/ConanTheBarbarian1982''. The late part soun like a mashup of
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* {{Nerf}}: the Enhanced Editions (and prior to these, various fixpacks) have reigned in some of the outrageous exploits - typically things that would never fly in a table top game - like killing "unkillable" NPCs, or repeatedly triggering dialogue which generates XP, or repeatedly triggering dialogue which generates XP, or repeatedly triggering dialogue which generates XP.

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* {{Nerf}}: the Enhanced Editions (and prior to these, various fixpacks) have reigned in some of the outrageous exploits - typically things that would never fly in a table top game - like killing "unkillable" NPCs, [=NPCs=], or repeatedly triggering dialogue which generates XP, or repeatedly triggering dialogue which generates XP, or repeatedly triggering dialogue which generates XP.
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** Alora in ''Enhanced Edition''. In the original game, her Lucky Rabbit's Foot did nothing for her outside of a small +2 luck bonus and simply meant she had one less ring slot than everyone else, and she came SO late in the game (Chapter 5 in Baldur's Gate, and you have to find her in a specific spot in the huge city and ''at night''), which meant that like every other NPC, she was already auto-leveled to match yours, and all of her thieving skill points are simply ''wasted'', effectively meaning she could never compete with the likes of Imoen or Safana. In ''EE'', her Rabbit's Foot now gives her a +2 Luck Bonus, +2 to her AC, and a multitude of bonuses to her thieving skills, and companions who join later are simply given experience to match your party's level rather than auto-leveling them, allowing you to spend her skill points as you see fit and even max out her HP (which you're probably going to need with that 12 Constitution she has) if you so choose. Her Strength is sorely lacking and her Constitution is nothing special either, but her natural 19 Dexterity on top of being a single-classed Thief means she can make a damn good one now if you wanna take her along.
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*** Garrick demonstrates that being [[NiceGuy well-meaning and a good person]] doesn't make the ladies want you, and as a dashing bard he's [[SpoonyBard more than a little lacking]].

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*** Garrick demonstrates that being [[NiceGuy well-meaning and a good person]] doesn't make the ladies want you, and as a dashing bard he's [[SpoonyBard [[QuirkyBard more than a little lacking]].
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For ''[[VideoGame/BaldursGateSiegeOfDragonspear Siege of Dragonspear]]'', see ''YMMV/BaldursGateSiegeOfDragonspear''.

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For ''[[VideoGame/BaldursGateSiegeOfDragonspear Siege of Dragonspear]]'', see ''YMMV/BaldursGateSiegeOfDragonspear''. \n For the largely-unrelated [[VideoGame/BaldursGateIII third game]], see ''YMMV/BaldursGateIII''.



** Bodhi. Is she a simple-minded monster, tunnel visioned on getting her next fix of blood and carnage, or a surprisingly lucid killer whose machinations are solely responsible for the systematic downfall of an underworld organization that dwarfs her own?

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** Bodhi. Is she a simple-minded monster, tunnel visioned tunnel-visioned on getting her next fix of blood and carnage, or a surprisingly lucid killer whose machinations are solely responsible for the systematic downfall of an underworld organization that dwarfs her own?
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*** From the expansion, there's Werewolf Isle. While a pretty cool location overall that contains some overall nifty lore for the founder of Baldur's Gate, the monsters there will decimate an underleveled party and heavily trip up one that's still on par with the challenges. What's worse is towards the end of the overall quest where [[spoiler:your party is infected with lycanthropy, and you're effectively on an in-game timer to complete the area and deal with a boss back in Ulgoth's Beard before your party is instantly destroyed, meaning that resting only brings you closer and closer to your imminent demise]].
*** Probably to nobody's surprise, Durlag's Tower, as would be expected of the game's major {{Bonus Dungeon}}. Traps EVERYWHERE, puzzles that tread a VERY thin line sometimes between being practical and logical...and outright {{Moon Logic Puzzle}} at worst, and some of the most powerful enemies the Sword Coast has to offer. While there's AMAZING loot to be had, you will work for every bit of it. Did we mention that the dwarf who made the tower this way went completely batshit insane and was said to have "built madness into its walls"?


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*** The Underdark is a very cool section of the game, given that you will find yourself dealing with some of the most iconic creatures in D&D in the form of Beholders, Mind Flayers, and Drow, but it can still be a trial and a half to get through. Assuming you take on the silver dragon, Adalon's, quest to find her missing eggs, you'll be infiltrating Ust Natha in Drow disguise, where the slightest misstep will blow your cover and leave you standing toe to toe ''with the whole freakin city out for your blood'' (ignoring Adalon or just killing her results in the same). Trying to keep up your disguise is what makes the segment so difficult, especially at the point where you must get an item from either the Kuo-Toa, the Beholders, or the Mind Flayers and are on a very ''STRICT'' time limit to do so, else you'll be figured out, and all three options are their own brand of hell if you're not prepared for them.

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Added to That One Level


* ThatOneLevel: The tutorial dungeon of ''Baldur's Gate II''. The first time you play it, you'll be creeped out by Irenicus's various experiments and hit hard by the succession of [[PlayerPunch Player Punches]]. Every subsequent time you play it, you'll be frustrated by the repetitive combat, how little it offers in terms of roleplay or lore, and most of all, how ''tediously long'' it is. It's so long that 2 minutes and 35 seconds, or ''more than ten percent'', of [[https://forums.beamdog.com/home/leaving?allowTrusted=1&target=http%3A%2F%2Fspeeddemosarchive.com%2Fdemo.pl%3FBaldursGate2_2309 Eli Chase's 23:06 speedrun of the game]] was spent in that dungeon. Irenicus's chateau is so despised that the [[https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/60934/mod-skip-chateau-irenicus two]] [[https://www.pocketplane.net/dungeon-be-gone/ mods]] made to skip it, while still getting all its items, experience, gold, and [=NPCs=], are wildly popular.

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* ThatOneLevel: ThatOneLevel:
** From the first game:
*** Nashkel Mines in Chapter 2. Though not an especially difficult dungeon, it does serve as the point where a) your entire party needs to have attained at LEAST level 2 by now (if not level 3) and b) have gotten a pretty firm grasp of the game's mechanics, such as keeping everyone together in enclosed spaces, being on regular lookout for traps, and not putting your [[SquishyWizard squishier mages]] in harm's way of the Kobold Archers and especially the Commandoes, who can easily destroy a lvl 1 party. Thankfully, there's plenty for the player to do in terms of sidequests that would allow them to quickly prepare and surpass the dangers the mines presents. Going too early, on the other hand...
*** The Cloakwood Forest of Chapter 4. The entire place is about 4 locations in total, plus the Cloakwood Mines at the end, and each area is filled to the brim with {{Demonic Spiders}} of all shapes and sizes (sometimes literally, as in the case of Cloakwood Area 2). Even a sufficiently leveled party will have to be extremely careful here as the challenges can still rip them apart.
*** The Catacombs below Candlekeep in Chapter 6. Not only are you unable to return to Candlekeep at all by the time you enter, meaning you're unable to prepare for it otherwise if you're ill-equipped or under leveled, but the multiple floors are filled with difficult enemies and traps EVERYWHERE. Better hope you have a thief who's leveled their Find Traps ability sufficiently, or you could find yourself having to tank every trap in the place.
*** Thieves' Maze from Chapter 7. While it's effectively the final dungeon before the very end of the game, it's an enormous maze filled with Skeletal Champions, who can easily destroy even high level characters despite wielding only +1 two-handed swords. Oh and like most of the other major dungeons, there's deadly traps everywhere. Also, being a maze means the hallways are very cramped and confusing for your characters to navigate, let alone actually try fighting in.
** From the second game:
***
The tutorial dungeon of ''Baldur's Gate II''. The first time you play it, you'll be creeped out by Irenicus's various experiments and hit hard by the succession of [[PlayerPunch Player Punches]]. Every subsequent time you play it, you'll be frustrated by the repetitive combat, how little it offers in terms of roleplay or lore, and most of all, how ''tediously long'' it is. It's so long that 2 minutes and 35 seconds, or ''more than ten percent'', of [[https://forums.beamdog.com/home/leaving?allowTrusted=1&target=http%3A%2F%2Fspeeddemosarchive.com%2Fdemo.pl%3FBaldursGate2_2309 Eli Chase's 23:06 speedrun of the game]] was spent in that dungeon. Irenicus's chateau is so despised that the [[https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/60934/mod-skip-chateau-irenicus two]] [[https://www.pocketplane.net/dungeon-be-gone/ mods]] made to skip it, while still getting all its items, experience, gold, and [=NPCs=], are wildly popular.popular.
*** If you're following Aran Linvail's route, then the Vampire Lair below the Graveyard District is a substantial jump in difficulty for one major reason: vampires can level drain you. Take too many hits of level drain, your character permanently dies. Have a Lesser Restoration memorized or in scroll form? Good, but the spell trashes your cleric and leaves them fatigued, meaning they now take heavy penalties in combat. You'll either be resting a lot to compensate...or doing a LOT of {{Save Scumming}} whenever someone is level drained. Oh and once you defeat a vampire, they're not dead until you find said vampire's coffin and stake them, lest they come for you again, and you have to do this with all the vampires before Bodhi appears for the final battle. Have fun!
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Disambiguation


** Haer'Dalis: Although almost universally considered superior to [[SpoonyBard Garrick and Eldoth]] from the previous game, some players don't think he fits his role as a MagicKnight [[MasterOfNone as well as he should]]. He has neither the ''[=THAC0=]'', attacks per round or hit points of a warrior, nor the higher level spells of a wizard, and his class-specific special abilities, while powerful in effect, only last for four rounds (24 seconds, i. e. too short to properly use them on more than one or two enemies, and sometimes even for that). Others argue that his wide array of defensive buffs, illegal extra point in short swords, and excellent Strength and Dexterity more than make up for those discrepancies, and that his special abilities and pickpocketing skills make him very versatile.

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** Haer'Dalis: Although almost universally considered superior to [[SpoonyBard [[TheBard Garrick and Eldoth]] from the previous game, some players don't think he fits his role as a MagicKnight [[MasterOfNone as well as he should]]. He has neither the ''[=THAC0=]'', attacks per round or hit points of a warrior, nor the higher level spells of a wizard, and his class-specific special abilities, while powerful in effect, only last for four rounds (24 seconds, i. e. too short to properly use them on more than one or two enemies, and sometimes even for that). Others argue that his wide array of defensive buffs, illegal extra point in short swords, and excellent Strength and Dexterity more than make up for those discrepancies, and that his special abilities and pickpocketing skills make him very versatile.


* WhatMeasureIsANonBadass: Quite a few fans tend to have very poor opinions of anybody who is not very outstanding gameplay-wise or roleplay-wise, such as [[HenpeckedHusband Khalid]], [[SpoonyBard Garrick]] or [[UpperClassTwit Nalia]]. [[MisaimedFandom These fans tend to forget]] that there's a character with that exact mindset in the game ([[TheSocialDarwinist Korgan]]), and he's Chaotic Evil.

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