History YMMV / BaldursGate

24th Mar '17 5:45:38 AM Hawaii_Knut
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** Imoen, in sort of an inversion of a CreatorsPet. The writers never seemed particularly fond of her, and in fact [[spoiler:wanted to kill her off in the second game]], but she was so popular with fans that they reconsidered.
** Minsc is probably the most popular character in the series, all things considered. And this is considering that unless you use a mod, he has no personal quests whatsoever, but his hammy butt-kicking-for-goodness attitude wins him over many fans, so much that not only is he the unofficial mascot of the game, he's pretty much the only returning character in the ''Legends of Baldur's Gate'' comic.
** Quite a few people were disappointed Xan didn't make it into the sequel. He makes the most of his screen time in the tutorial, where -- judging by his delivery -- he seems to find teaching the basics of magic to Charname ''incredibly'' tedious.
** People wanted Xan in the game so much, two different mods were made to add him in.
** [[StoneWall Kagain]] was [[HiddenCharacter difficult to find]] back in the day but his extremely high Constitution and ability to wear the best armour made him best tank in the first game, which gave him lasting popularity. He's also just [[ALighterShadeOfBlack mildly evil]], [[TokenEvilTeammate making him popular even to good aligned parties]].
** Paladins tend not to be particularly popular characters in these types of stories, being cartoonishly uptight, cardboard [[KnightInShiningArmor Knights In Shining Armor]] most of the time, but lots of players feel Keldorn's an extremely well-written character who retains the essence of the character type while subverting the flatter and more stereotypical aspects of it. Gods bless the VideoGameCaringPotential. And now there are even mods making him a possible [[MayDecemberRomance romance option]]!

to:

** Imoen, in sort of an inversion of a CreatorsPet. The writers never seemed particularly fond of her, and in fact [[spoiler:wanted to kill her off in the second game]], but she was so popular with fans that they reconsidered.
**
Some companions are more memorale than others, including:
***
Minsc is probably the most popular character in the series, all things considered. And this is considering that unless you use a mod, he has no personal quests whatsoever, but his hammy butt-kicking-for-goodness attitude wins him over many fans, so much that not only is he the unofficial mascot of the game, he's pretty much the only returning character in the ''Legends of Baldur's Gate'' comic.
** *** Imoen, in sort of an inversion of a CreatorsPet. The writers never seemed particularly fond of her, and in fact [[spoiler:wanted to kill her off in the second game]], but she was so popular with fans that they reconsidered.
***
Quite a few people were disappointed Xan didn't make it into the sequel. He makes the most of his screen time in the tutorial, where -- judging by his delivery -- he seems to find teaching the basics of magic to Charname ''incredibly'' tedious.
**
tedious. People wanted Xan him in the game so much, two different mods were made to add him in.
** *** [[StoneWall Kagain]] was [[HiddenCharacter difficult to find]] back in the day but his extremely high Constitution and ability to wear the best armour made him best tank in the first game, which gave him lasting popularity. He's also just [[ALighterShadeOfBlack mildly evil]], [[TokenEvilTeammate making him popular even to good aligned parties]].
** *** Paladins tend not to be particularly popular characters in these types of stories, being cartoonishly uptight, cardboard [[KnightInShiningArmor Knights In Shining Armor]] most of the time, but lots of players feel Keldorn's an extremely well-written character who retains the essence of the character type while subverting the flatter and more stereotypical aspects of it. Gods bless the VideoGameCaringPotential. And now there are even mods making him a possible [[MayDecemberRomance romance option]]!option]]!
*** Viconia because (1) EvilIsSexy and (2) she's the game's best healer.
*** For many, Edwin, who is amusingly over-the-top in his grumpiness and who, two games, two expansions and a revamped edition on, still reigns as the king of arcane spellcasting.
*** Among the EE companions, Dorn seem to the most popular, because of his usefulness, largely averting half-orc stereotypes and having EvilIsCool written all over him.



** Viconia because (1) EvilIsSexy and (2) she's the game's best healer.



** For many, Edwin, who is amusingly over-the-top in his grumpiness and who, two games, two expansions and a revamped edition on, still reigns as the king of arcane spellcasting.
2nd Mar '17 5:14:47 PM mlsmithca
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* SoCoolItsAwesome: The ''Baldur's Gate'' series, despite being already over a decade old, remain (at least in the Western fandom) one of the most popular Video Role-Playing Games of all time thanks to a compelling story, a colorful and enjoyable cast of characters and, especially among older fans, for being ''really'' NintendoHard without being unwinnable by any stretch.
2nd Feb '17 10:50:13 PM LordInsane
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** As for the "canonical" choice of love interests, Female Charname/Rasaad and Male Charname/Viconia see the most support, thanks to Rasaad's {{Adorkable}} nature and Viconia's CharacterDevelopment when the two are romanced.

to:

** As for the "canonical" choice of love interests, Female Charname/Rasaad and Male Charname/Viconia see the most support, thanks to Rasaad's {{Adorkable}} nature (and him not being Anomen, the only other potential love interest for a good female Charname) and Viconia's CharacterDevelopment when the two are romanced.
14th Jan '17 5:33:32 AM NightShade96
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* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: Bodhi. Is she a simple-minded monster, tunnel visioned on getting her next fix of blood and carnage, or a surprisingly lucid killer whose machinations are solely responsible for the systematic downfall of an underworld organization that dwarfs her own?

to:

* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: AlternativeCharacterInterpretation:
**
Bodhi. Is she a simple-minded monster, tunnel visioned on getting her next fix of blood and carnage, or a surprisingly lucid killer whose machinations are solely responsible for the systematic downfall of an underworld organization that dwarfs her own?



* AngstWhatAngst: Like most of the cast, Mazzy has quite a tragic backstory, but despite seeing her former adventuring companions [[TragicMonster turned into horrid undead monsters]], and feeling responsible for their deaths, she's remarkably un-angsty about it.

to:

* AngstWhatAngst: AngstWhatAngst:
**
Like most of the cast, Mazzy has quite a tragic backstory, but despite seeing her former adventuring companions [[TragicMonster turned into horrid undead monsters]], and feeling responsible for their deaths, she's remarkably un-angsty about it.



* CanonDefilement: The novels. Dear ''God'', the novels. It'd be easier to make a list of what they get right then what they got wrong.
* CanonDiscontinuity: ...that said, it looks as this has happened to the novels. In 2014 a [=WotC=]-endorsed comic was released, set years after ''Throne of Bhaal'', which starred Minsc as the main character. Seeing as Minsc ''dies'' in the novels, and the one in the comic is clearly the one from the game...
* ComplacentGamingSyndrome: There is a strong tendency among players of ''Shadows of Amn'' to avoid certain class kits / combinations for their main character, even though said classes don't fall into TierInducedScrappy at all, but rather, because the game already provides the player with said classes in the form of [=NPCs=] who are of that class, or close enough to it. This is probably why Fighter/Druid (Jaheira already is one), Inquisitor (Keldorn already does a good job of it) or Thief/Mage (Imoen, Nalia ''and'' Jan already are of that class) Charnames are relatively rare. After all, why make your own Stalker when the game already gives you Valygar, who has pretty good stats, a great weapon selection and comes with an unique piece of armor that a Charname Stalker can't wear? This is especially noticeable in the case of the Single-class mage, which, despite widely considered to be a very solid and also interesting and amusing class to play in both games, is avoided like the plague by some players, because they're convinced that they couldn't do anything as a mage which Edwin couldn't do just as well or better. Players who still wish to try out a wizard will thus instead opt either for the popular Fighter/Mage (or, more accurately, Kensai/Mage), or a Sorcerer.

to:

* CanonDefilement: The novels. Dear ''God'', the novels. It'd be easier to make a list of what they get got right then what they got wrong.
* CanonDiscontinuity: ...that CanonDiscontinuity: …that said, it looks as this has happened to the novels. In 2014 a [=WotC=]-endorsed comic was released, set years after ''Throne of Bhaal'', which starred Minsc as the main character. Seeing as Minsc ''dies'' in the novels, and the one in the comic is clearly the one from the game...
game…
* ComplacentGamingSyndrome: ComplacentGamingSyndrome:
**
There is a strong tendency among players of ''Shadows of Amn'' to avoid certain class kits / combinations for their main character, even though said classes don't fall into TierInducedScrappy at all, but rather, because the game already provides the player with said classes in the form of [=NPCs=] who are of that class, or close enough to it. This is probably why Fighter/Druid (Jaheira already is one), Inquisitor (Keldorn already does a good job of it) or Thief/Mage (Imoen, Nalia ''and'' Jan already are of that class) Charnames are relatively rare. After all, why make your own Stalker when the game already gives you Valygar, who has pretty good stats, a great weapon selection and comes with an unique piece of armor that a Charname Stalker can't wear? This is especially noticeable in the case of the Single-class mage, which, despite widely considered to be a very solid and also interesting and amusing class to play in both games, is avoided like the plague by some players, because they're convinced that they couldn't do anything as a mage which Edwin couldn't do just as well or better. Players who still wish to try out a wizard will thus instead opt either for the popular Fighter/Mage (or, more accurately, Kensai/Mage), or a Sorcerer.



* CrazyAwesome: Minsc, a heroic version of the PsychopathicManchild who loves children, believes his pet hamster talks to him and instructs him on what to do, and relishes flying into berserker rages so he can chop people apart and imprint his bootprints to the buttocks of evildoers. '''[[ForGreatJustice FOR JUSTICE!!]]'''

to:

* CrazyAwesome: CrazyAwesome:
**
Minsc, a heroic version of the PsychopathicManchild who loves children, believes his pet hamster talks to him and instructs him on what to do, and relishes flying into berserker rages so he can chop people apart and imprint his bootprints to the buttocks of evildoers. '''[[ForGreatJustice FOR JUSTICE!!]]'''



* DeconstructorFleet: Not immediately obvious, but Baldur's Gate masterfully deconstructs typical character clichés: Imoen is a fairly realistic take on how a TagAlongKid would fare in such a fantasy world (she would get herself in ''huge'' danger and almost killed), Aerie deconstructs the image of the WhiteMagicianGirl, who doesn't get nearly as much help and compassion as she would in other stories, Anomen and Keldorn deconstruct the archetype of the KnightInShiningArmor by showing that life doesn't just consist of slaying Dragons and strictly following a BadassCreed and can occasionally be arrogant and judgmental, and Valygar, instead of getting accepted as the brooding, mysterious ByronicHero, gets MistakenForGay and has to deal with his DarkAndTroubledPast anyways. Jan, instead of being flat ComicRelief, turns out to be SmarterThanYouLook and only capable of having survived so long because of how smart he is, Viconia shows that neither of the two parts of the JerkassWoobie trope are more important than the other (and thus functionally deconstructs DracoInLeatherPants and RonTheDeathEater as a whole), Edwin proves that an eccentric and CowardlySidekick is ''not'' going to be successful in life, and Korgan, seemingly being an {{Expy}} of a HackAndSlash protagonist, demonstrates that there isn't a place for AxCrazy people in society, no matter how CrazyAwesome they are. Further, Cernd debunks the idea of a [[TheSmartGuy Smart Guy]] who speaks entirely in parables, with some people confused by his misplaced metaphors and some treating him like a moron, Nalia fares about as well as you might expect as a [[WeHelpTheHelpless Left-Wing Democrat]] in a country which has been an arch-feudalistic aristocracy throughout history, Yoshimo makes light of the dashing GentlemanThief role by demonstrating [[spoiler:you can't really rely on him in a pinch]] and being less sure on his feet than he likes to suggest, Eldoth deconstructs the LovableRogue trope by being a GoldDigger, a raging sexist and intolerably cruel towards his girlfriend, Skie demonstrates how a RebelliousPrincess without formal combat training would not fare well on the road and her lack of world experience leaves her open to exploitation and Garrick demonstrates that being [[NiceGuy well-meaning and a good person]] doesn't make the ladies want you, and as a dashing bard he's [[SpoonyBard more than a little lacking]]. Shar-Teel deconstructs the FeministFantasy type of character by showing her to be just as evil as what she rails against. About the only one who plays any classic tropes straight is Minsc, but then again, as Dynaheir says, "Minsc is... well, [[TooDumbToFool Minsc]]."

to:

* DeconstructorFleet: Not DeconstructorFleet:
** It's not
immediately obvious, but Baldur's Gate ''Baldur's Gate'' masterfully deconstructs typical character clichés: Imoen is a fairly realistic take on how a TagAlongKid would fare in such a fantasy world (she would get herself in ''huge'' danger and almost killed), Aerie deconstructs the image of the WhiteMagicianGirl, who doesn't get nearly as much help and compassion as she would in other stories, Anomen and Keldorn deconstruct the archetype of the KnightInShiningArmor by showing that life doesn't just consist of slaying Dragons and strictly following a BadassCreed and can occasionally be arrogant and judgmental, and Valygar, instead of getting accepted as the brooding, mysterious ByronicHero, gets MistakenForGay and has to deal with his DarkAndTroubledPast anyways. Jan, instead of being flat ComicRelief, turns out to be SmarterThanYouLook and only capable of having survived so long because of how smart he is, Viconia shows that neither of the two parts of the JerkassWoobie trope are more important than the other (and thus functionally deconstructs DracoInLeatherPants and RonTheDeathEater as a whole), Edwin proves that an eccentric and CowardlySidekick is ''not'' going to be successful in life, and Korgan, seemingly being an {{Expy}} of a HackAndSlash protagonist, demonstrates that there isn't a place for AxCrazy people in society, no matter how CrazyAwesome they are. Further, Cernd debunks the idea of a [[TheSmartGuy Smart Guy]] who speaks entirely in parables, with some people confused by his misplaced metaphors and some treating him like a moron, Nalia fares about as well as you might expect as a [[WeHelpTheHelpless Left-Wing Democrat]] in a country which has been an arch-feudalistic aristocracy throughout history, Yoshimo makes light of the dashing GentlemanThief role by demonstrating [[spoiler:you can't really rely on him in a pinch]] and being less sure on his feet than he likes to suggest, Eldoth deconstructs the LovableRogue trope by being a GoldDigger, a raging sexist and intolerably cruel towards his girlfriend, Skie demonstrates how a RebelliousPrincess without formal combat training would not fare well on the road and her lack of world experience leaves her open to exploitation and Garrick demonstrates that being [[NiceGuy well-meaning and a good person]] doesn't make the ladies want you, and as a dashing bard he's [[SpoonyBard more than a little lacking]]. Shar-Teel deconstructs the FeministFantasy type of character by showing her to be just as evil as what she rails against. About the only one who plays any classic tropes straight is Minsc, but then again, as Dynaheir says, "Minsc is... well, [[TooDumbToFool Minsc]]."



* DemonicSpiders

to:

* DemonicSpidersDemonicSpiders:



* DracoInLeatherPants

to:

* DracoInLeatherPantsDracoInLeatherPants:



* EnsembleDarkhorse
** Imoen, in sort of an inversion of a CreatorsPet. The writers never seemed particularly fond of her, and in fact [[spoiler:wanted to kill her off in the second game]], but she was so popular with fans they reconsidered.
** Minsc is probably the most popular character in the series, all things considered. And this is considering that unless you use a mod, he has no personal quests whatsoever, but his hammy butt-kicking-for-goodness attitude wins him over many fans, so much that not only he's the unofficial mascot of the game, he's pretty much the only returning character in the ''Legends of Baldur's Gate'' comic.

to:

* EnsembleDarkhorse
EnsembleDarkhorse:
** Imoen, in sort of an inversion of a CreatorsPet. The writers never seemed particularly fond of her, and in fact [[spoiler:wanted to kill her off in the second game]], but she was so popular with fans that they reconsidered.
** Minsc is probably the most popular character in the series, all things considered. And this is considering that unless you use a mod, he has no personal quests whatsoever, but his hammy butt-kicking-for-goodness attitude wins him over many fans, so much that not only he's is he the unofficial mascot of the game, he's pretty much the only returning character in the ''Legends of Baldur's Gate'' comic.



** Viconia because (1) EvilIsSexy and (2) being the game's best healer.

to:

** Viconia because (1) EvilIsSexy and (2) being she's the game's best healer.



** Also another enemy, perhaps the Master Wraith deserves mention. By all means, his role in the game is something of a GiantSpaceFleaFromNowhere when you're trying to face off Yaga-Shura. However, he's such a master of BreakThemByTalking that he brings... [[BreakTheCutie gut-wrenching]] dialogues with your romance options that he really stands out.

to:

** Also another enemy, perhaps the Master Wraith deserves mention. By all means, his role in the game is something of a GiantSpaceFleaFromNowhere when you're trying to face off Yaga-Shura. However, he's such a master of BreakThemByTalking that he brings... brings… [[BreakTheCutie gut-wrenching]] dialogues with your romance options that he really stands out.



* FanNickname
** Charname[[note]]From the code used in the scripts to stand in for their player-given name[[/note]] for the Bhaalspawn; kensage for a dual-classed kensai/mage; swashy for a swashbuckler.
** "Abduh", for the novel protagonist Abdel Adrian. Emphasis on the "duh".



** Inverted for female CHARNAME--for the longest time, people just wanted her to be able to hook up with ''anyone'' but [[TheScrappy Anomen]], creating a universal fan-''despised'' couple.

to:

** Inverted for female CHARNAME--for CHARNAME -- for the longest time, people just wanted her to be able to hook up with ''anyone'' but [[TheScrappy Anomen]], creating a universal fan-''despised'' couple.



* FanonDiscontinuity: It's pretty much universal that all fans of the series agree that ''the novels don't exist''.

to:

* FanonDiscontinuity: It's pretty much universal that all universally agreed by fans of the series agree that ''the novels don't exist''.



* GoodBadBug
** The "talk-fight" bug. Keep trying to initiate dialogue with a non-hostile character without ever actually talking to them and they won't go hostile... even as the remaining five members of the party are tearing them a new one. Only works on some very specific characters, however. This bug can also be used on certain quest characters, allowing for multiple quest reward returns (mainly XP).

to:

* GoodBadBug
GoodBadBug:
** The "talk-fight" bug. Keep trying to initiate dialogue with a non-hostile character without ever actually talking to them and they won't go hostile... hostile… even as the remaining five members of the party are tearing them a new one. Only works on some very specific characters, however. This bug can also be used on certain quest characters, allowing for multiple quest reward returns (mainly XP).



** Buffing spells were for gameplay purposes coded so as to bypass all spell protections and magic resistance. Now, but if said buffing spells bestow an effect on the target that harms rather than benefits it, you can essentially make your enemies hilariously weak with buffing spells: Have a nasty enemy with high magic resistance? Cast ''Magic Resistance'' (level 5 divine spell) on them, and their resistance will be set to 2 * your caster's level, i. e. maximally 40%, and you just saved a whole bunch of ''Lower Resistance'' spells. Staring down a Fire Giant, an Iron Golem or Red Dragon, and wish your warriors could fight it with less risk of being bludgeoned to death. Cast ''Strength'' (level 2 arcane spell) on it, and suddenly the enemy is no stronger than Kivan. Fighting a demon with ridiculously low AC, so your warriors can't even hit the enemy? ''Barkskin'' (level 2 divine spell) set's it's Armor class to a minimum of 1...

to:

** Buffing spells were for gameplay purposes coded so as to bypass all spell protections and magic resistance. Now, but if said buffing spells bestow an effect on the target that harms rather than benefits it, you can essentially make your enemies hilariously weak with buffing spells: Have a nasty enemy with high magic resistance? Cast ''Magic Resistance'' (level 5 divine spell) on them, and their resistance will be set to 2 * your caster's level, i. e. maximally 40%, and you just saved a whole bunch of ''Lower Resistance'' spells. Staring down a Fire Giant, an Iron Golem or Red Dragon, and wish your warriors could fight it with less risk of being bludgeoned to death. Cast ''Strength'' (level 2 arcane spell) on it, and suddenly the enemy is no stronger than Kivan. Fighting a demon with ridiculously low AC, so your warriors can't even hit the enemy? ''Barkskin'' (level 2 divine spell) set's sets it's Armor class to a minimum of 1...1…



* HoYay: Particularly in the second game, there's a certain... subtext... to the things Xzar says about Montaron, despite his stated dislike for him.

to:

* HoYay: HoYay:
**
Particularly in the second game, there's a certain... subtext... certain… subtext… to the things Xzar says about Montaron, despite his stated dislike for him.



** LesYay: Unexpectedly, [[TheIngenue Skie]] has some rather... interesting things to say to [[AxCrazy Shar-Teel]] if you have them in the same party.
--> '''Skie''': "You're a good friend./I feel safe with you in the party./I think you're a beautiful person."\\
'''Shar-Teel''': "Flattery will get you nowhere."

to:

** LesYay: Unexpectedly, [[TheIngenue Skie]] has some rather... rather… interesting things to say to [[AxCrazy Shar-Teel]] if you have them in the same party.
--> '''Skie''': "You're You're a good friend./I feel safe with you in the party./I think you're a beautiful person."\\
\\
'''Shar-Teel''': "Flattery Flattery will get you nowhere."



** Jaheira. She is occasionally rude and[=/=]or condescending towards other party members, but it's largely because of losing Khalid, her husband and soulmate, and perhaps lingering memories of losing her friend Gorion, and she always apologizes after being exceptionally rude.

to:

** Jaheira. She is occasionally rude and[=/=]or and/or condescending towards other party members, but it's largely because of losing Khalid, her husband and soulmate, and perhaps lingering memories of losing her friend Gorion, and she always apologizes after being exceptionally rude.



** All three of the [[BigBad Big Bads]]:
*** Sarevok. He served as [[TheDragon second in command]] to his foster father, one of the most devious merchants in the realms, while orchestrating a plot to corner the iron market for the Sword Coast, with [[DragonWithAnAgenda his own plans]] to [[spoiler:escalate the tension and suspicions stemming from the manufactured resource crisis to start a war that he believed would prove him a worthy successor to his true father, the now-dead God of Murder Bhaal, and [[AGodAmI allow him to claim Bhaal's throne]]]], manipulated the player character's party into [[XanatosGambit either killing said foster father or being on hand to be framed for it]], allowing Sarevok to [[DragonAscendant assume command of the Iron Throne trading cartel]], [[VillainWithGoodPublicity got himself elected a Grand Duke of the city of Baldur's Gate and arranged the assassination of the others]], and aside from ''finally'' losing his cool when [[spoiler:undeniably exposed as a traitor in the middle of his coronation ceremony]] and nearly succeeding in assassinating the remaining Grand Dukes ''himself'', he [[XanatosSpeedChess bounced back from every defeat inflicted on the Iron Throne by the player's party, finding some way to use them to his advantage]]. On top of that, he winds up manipulating the player character again, into restoring him to life, in Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal (literally, it must be done to progress).

to:

** All three of the [[BigBad Big Bads]]:
{{Big Bad}}s:
*** Sarevok. He served as [[TheDragon second in command]] second-in-command]] to his foster father, one of the most devious merchants in the realms, while orchestrating a plot to corner the iron market for the Sword Coast, with [[DragonWithAnAgenda his own plans]] to [[spoiler:escalate the tension and suspicions stemming from the manufactured resource crisis to start a war that he believed would prove him a worthy successor to his true father, the now-dead God of Murder Bhaal, and [[AGodAmI allow him to claim Bhaal's throne]]]], manipulated the player character's party into [[XanatosGambit either killing said foster father or being on hand to be framed for it]], allowing Sarevok to [[DragonAscendant assume command of the Iron Throne trading cartel]], [[VillainWithGoodPublicity got himself elected a Grand Duke of the city of Baldur's Gate and arranged the assassination of the others]], and aside from ''finally'' losing his cool when [[spoiler:undeniably exposed as a traitor in the middle of his coronation ceremony]] and nearly succeeding in assassinating the remaining Grand Dukes ''himself'', he [[XanatosSpeedChess bounced back from every defeat inflicted on the Iron Throne by the player's party, finding some way to use them to his advantage]]. On top of that, he winds up manipulating the player character again, into restoring him to life, in Baldur's ''Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal Bhaal'' (literally, it must be done to progress).



** Aside frome the main villains, another one is Solaufein. At first he looks like your typical drow. Evil and a massive {{Jerkass}}, but with PragmaticVillainy as he prefers to use his time and energy on his actual enemies rather than picking on easy targets. [[spoiler: This is all an act. [[JerkassFacade Beneath the fascade]] is a well disguised [[MySpeciesDothProtestTooMuch Eilistraeen drow]] with years of experience who, if you follow through the Underdark Arc long enough by not killing him as Phaere ordered, will pull a LaserGuidedKarma on her that is [[SugarWiki/AwesomeMoment something to behold]].]]

to:

** Aside frome the main villains, another one is Solaufein. At first he looks like your typical drow. Evil and a massive {{Jerkass}}, but with PragmaticVillainy as he prefers to use his time and energy on his actual enemies rather than picking on easy targets. [[spoiler: This is all an act. [[JerkassFacade Beneath the fascade]] is a well disguised [[MySpeciesDothProtestTooMuch Eilistraeen drow]] with years of experience who, if you follow through the Underdark Arc long enough by not killing him as Phaere ordered, will pull a LaserGuidedKarma on her that is [[SugarWiki/AwesomeMoment [[SugarWiki/MomentOfAwesome something to behold]].]]



** "You must gather your party before venturing forth. You must gather your party before venturing forth. [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93XFxKXdbqY You must...]]"
** This was sufficiently annoying to repeat players that there's a hack to remove the "You must gather your party" noise, incorporated into the Tweak Pack mods for both games.
*** FridgeLogic makes it worse when you realize it's the same guy who [[YouKilledMyFather killed Gorion]]. Why are you taking orders from him again? Maybe it's because you have been waylaid by enemies and must defend yourself. you have been waylaid by enemies and must defend yourself. you have been waylaid by enemies and must...
*** Actually, being waylaid by enemies happens much less often and will never happen underground, so people found that message less annoying than the "You must gather your party..." message.

to:

** "You must gather your party before venturing forth. You must gather your party before venturing forth. [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93XFxKXdbqY You must...]]"
**
must…]]"
***
This was sufficiently annoying to repeat players that there's a hack to remove the "You must gather your party" noise, incorporated into the Tweak Pack mods for both games.
*** FridgeLogic makes it worse when you realize it's the same guy who [[YouKilledMyFather killed Gorion]]. Why are you taking orders from him again? Maybe it's because you have been waylaid by enemies and must defend yourself. you have been waylaid by enemies and must defend yourself. you have been waylaid by enemies and must...
must…
*** Actually, being waylaid by enemies happens much less often and will never happen underground, so people found that message less annoying than the "You must gather your party..." party…" message.



*** Rasaad is being taunted by [[StrawLoser a hilariously unfriendly random civilian who fits just about every category of "ignorant country oaf"]], just to show off how noble and capable he is (incidentally, Rasaad is [[MagikarpPower not very capable at this point in the game]], so beating a civilian who can't fight back really ain't a wonder).
*** Ditto for Neera, who is pursued by a Red Wizard who [[MemeticMolester gives off rapist vibes to such a an absurd degree]] that he might as well have a little badge with the words 'sexual predator' on it.

to:

*** Rasaad is being taunted by [[StrawLoser a hilariously unfriendly hilariously-unfriendly random civilian who fits just about every category of "ignorant country oaf"]], just to show off how noble and capable he is (incidentally, Rasaad is [[MagikarpPower not very capable at this point in the game]], so beating a civilian who can't fight back really ain't a wonder).
*** Ditto for Neera, who is pursued by a Red Wizard who [[MemeticMolester gives off rapist vibes to such a an absurd degree]] that he might as well have a little badge with the words 'sexual predator' on it.



* NoYay: [[TortureTechnician Irenicus]] and [[BreakTheCutie Imoen]]... [[{{Squick}} ugh!]] Irenicus and anybody, for that matter, if you remember [[CloningBlues those clones]] or [[SpiderPeople Centeol]] from the first game...
** This runs in the family. Bodhi/Charname's LoveInterest is not a particularly comfortable thought either...

to:

* NoYay: NoYay:
**
[[TortureTechnician Irenicus]] and [[BreakTheCutie Imoen]]... Imoen]]… [[{{Squick}} ugh!]] Irenicus and anybody, for that matter, if you remember [[CloningBlues those clones]] or [[SpiderPeople Centeol]] from the first game...
game…
** This runs in the family. Bodhi/Charname's LoveInterest is not a particularly comfortable thought either...either…



* OneSceneWonder: The Master Wraith in ''Throne of Bhaal''. You'll only meet this scumbag once, but what it does to Charname, their companions and especially their lovers [[BreakTheCutie is]] [[KickTheDog so]] [[PlayerPunch atrocious]] that it leaves quite the impression, both in-game and in real life.

to:

* OneSceneWonder: OneSceneWonder:
**
The Master Wraith in ''Throne of Bhaal''. You'll only meet this scumbag once, but what it does to Charname, their companions and especially their lovers [[BreakTheCutie is]] [[KickTheDog so]] [[PlayerPunch atrocious]] that it leaves quite the impression, both in-game and in real life.



* RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap
** Say what folks will about Aerie in ''[=SoA=]'', they tend to be much more forgiving about her in ''[=ToB=]''.

to:

* RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap
RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap:
** Say what folks will about Aerie in ''[=SoA=]'', but they tend to be much more forgiving about her in ''[=ToB=]''.



* SacredCow: It's a golden rule among the [=BioWare=] fandom to never criticize ''Baldur's Gate''...ever! Unless we're talking about the (hypothetical) novels. In which case, it's the opposite.
* TheScrappy:
** Khalid is more or less TheUnfavourite in the eyes of the fandom, due to being a weak-willed [[TheGenericGuy Generic Guy]] whose stats were outclassed by other fighters - Kagain was the better tank, while Shar-Teel, Montaron, Ajantis and Coran were better on the damage front, Rasaad's speed makes up for how little equipment he can use, and Dorn is the perfect pack mule. He also had the bad habit of running away because he was very prone to morale failures. Worse yet, he was attached at the hip to Jaheira and the player couldn't get rid of him without losing her as well. That said, his death hit many players hard, no doubt in part because of the effect it had on Jaheira.

to:

* SacredCow: It's a golden rule among the [=BioWare=] fandom to never criticize ''Baldur's Gate''...ever! Gate'' …ever! Unless we're talking about the (hypothetical) novels. In which case, it's the opposite.
* TheScrappy:
TheScrappy:
** Khalid is more or less TheUnfavourite TheUnfavorite in the eyes of the fandom, due to being a weak-willed [[TheGenericGuy Generic Guy]] whose stats were outclassed by other fighters - Kagain was the better tank, while Shar-Teel, Montaron, Ajantis and Coran were better on the damage front, Rasaad's speed makes up for how little equipment he can use, and Dorn is the perfect pack mule. He also had the bad habit of running away because he was very prone to morale failures. Worse yet, he was attached at the hip to Jaheira and the player couldn't get rid of him without losing her as well. That said, his death hit many players hard, no doubt in part because of the effect it had on Jaheira.



* TastesLikeDiabetes

to:

* TastesLikeDiabetesTastesLikeDiabetes:



* TearJerker
** Brage, former captain of the Amnish guard and an all around decent guy--until he obtains a cursed sword of berserking. The curse drives him to kill his entire family, a merchant caravan (both people and horses), and who knows how many other people in between by the time you catch up to him. If you choose to return him to the Temple of Helm, Brage will be horrified by what he's done (even though he couldn't control it) and say that he no longer wants to live. Nalin, the priest, instead insists he atone for it all. Try talking to Brage after he comes to his senses and you're met with a mix of insane laughter and distraught sobbing.
** Yoshimo's death.
** Viconia's ending if romanced. It's such a downer that the above-mentioned Edwin romance mod comes with a happier ending for a romanced Viconia thrown in, though it only triggers if the player "redeems her" and causes her CharacterAlignment to shift to TrueNeutral.
** Rasaad's endings; all three. No matter what comes, he dies in ignominy, whatever happiness he enjoyed ending with a miserable death. And no matter what happens, Alorgoth gets off scot-free, the vengeance that defined and shaped Rasaad's CharacterDevelopment left unfulfilled.
* ThatOneBoss:

to:

* TearJerker
** Brage, former captain of the Amnish guard and an all around decent guy--until he obtains a cursed sword of berserking. The curse drives him to kill his entire family, a merchant caravan (both people and horses), and who knows how many other people in between by the time you catch up to him. If you choose to return him to the Temple of Helm, Brage will be horrified by what he's done (even though he couldn't control it) and say that he no longer wants to live. Nalin, the priest, instead insists he atone for it all. Try talking to Brage after he comes to his senses and you're met with a mix of insane laughter and distraught sobbing.
** Yoshimo's death.
** Viconia's ending if romanced. It's such a downer that the above-mentioned Edwin romance mod comes with a happier ending for a romanced Viconia thrown in, though it only triggers if the player "redeems her" and causes her CharacterAlignment to shift to TrueNeutral.
** Rasaad's endings; all three. No matter what comes, he dies in ignominy, whatever happiness he enjoyed ending with a miserable death. And no matter what happens, Alorgoth gets off scot-free, the vengeance that defined and shaped Rasaad's CharacterDevelopment left unfulfilled.
* ThatOneBoss:
ThatOneBoss:



* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: While [[JustifiedTrope justified]] in that the transition from the more quantity-driven first game to the far more intricate storytelling of the second would result in several familiar characters being cut--and not to mention the implausibility of the entire cast moving south to Amn--several popular and interesting party members from the first game were left out of [=BG2=] with nary a reference given to them.

to:

* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: While [[JustifiedTrope justified]] in that the transition from the more quantity-driven first game to the far more intricate storytelling of the second would result in several familiar characters being cut--and cut -- and not to mention the implausibility of the entire cast moving south to Amn--several Amn -- several popular and interesting party members from the first game were left out of [=BG2=] with nary a reference given to them.



* UncannyValley: Aerie (and to a lesser degree, Jaheira) has been known to induce this in some players, probably because of those disproportionately huge eyes, which are bigger than her nose and mouth combined. All the more eerie when compared to Korgan, who has eyes only about half the size of the ones belonging to the human characters, but instead [[SinisterSchnoz an enormous nose]], and still looks more realistic.
** The battle animation for [=BG2=] can fit this as well. The animators must not have realized they were over-exaggerating the movement. The battle sprites will lean too far back before a strike (back perpendicular to the legs), and then lunge so far forward (front also perpendicular to the legs) that you'd have to wonder how they keep their balance. It's the most obvious on taller characters. It makes the characters look like they either have spines of rubber or no spines at all; humans just aren't capable of that kind of movement!
* UnfortunateCharacterDesign: The golems' loinclothes look... disturbing if you don't know what they are.

to:

* UncannyValley: UncannyValley:
**
Aerie (and to a lesser degree, Jaheira) has been known to induce this in some players, probably because of those disproportionately huge eyes, which are bigger than her nose and mouth combined. All the more eerie when compared to Korgan, who has eyes only about half the size of the ones belonging to the human characters, but instead [[SinisterSchnoz an enormous nose]], and still looks more realistic.
** The battle animation animations for [=BG2=] can fit this as well. The animators must not have realized they were over-exaggerating the movement. The battle sprites will lean too far back before a strike (back perpendicular to the legs), and then lunge so far forward (front also perpendicular to the legs) that you'd have to wonder how they keep their balance. It's the most obvious on taller characters. It makes the characters look like they either have spines of rubber or no spines at all; humans just aren't capable of that kind of movement!
* UnfortunateCharacterDesign: The golems' loinclothes look... look… disturbing if you don't know what they are.
1st Dec '16 9:57:18 PM Delphi
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Added DiffLines:

** The infinite XP spot in northeast Saradush, where your ranged fighters can safely kill an unseen Fire Giant which instantly respawns. Arm them with weapons with unlimited ammo, and you can make over a million XP an hour.
4th Nov '16 4:52:56 AM Morgenthaler
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* EvilIsCool: Sarevok and Irenicus are widely considered to be among the [[{{Badass}} coolest]] characters in the series. Playable characters like [[CrazyAwesome Korgan]] and [[FountainOfMemes Xzar]] are pretty cool as well.

to:

* EvilIsCool: Sarevok and Irenicus are widely considered to be among the [[{{Badass}} coolest]] coolest characters in the series. Playable characters like [[CrazyAwesome Korgan]] and [[FountainOfMemes Xzar]] are pretty cool as well.



* LoveToHate: Sarevok and Irenicus. Players admire them for being serious {{badass}}es and [[MagnificentBastard brilliant schemers]] and feel sorry for them because of their fairly [[UpbringingMakesTheHero sympathetic]] [[ThatManIsDead backgrounds]], but most acknowledge that they are both dangerous villains still and absolutely have to be stopped. Sarevok's popularity only increased in [=ToB=], where he not only [[PromotedToPlayable joins your party]], but [[RousseauWasRight has the chance]] [[HeelFaceTurn to redeem himself]].

to:

* LoveToHate: Sarevok and Irenicus. Players admire them for being serious {{badass}}es badasses and [[MagnificentBastard brilliant schemers]] and feel sorry for them because of their fairly [[UpbringingMakesTheHero sympathetic]] [[ThatManIsDead backgrounds]], but most acknowledge that they are both dangerous villains still and absolutely have to be stopped. Sarevok's popularity only increased in [=ToB=], where he not only [[PromotedToPlayable joins your party]], but [[RousseauWasRight has the chance]] [[HeelFaceTurn to redeem himself]].
2nd Oct '16 5:15:57 AM supergod
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* {{Narm}}: The way the new [=NPCs=] are introduced in the Enhanced Edition in the first game,
** Rasaad is being taunted by [[StrawLoser a hilariously unfriendly random civilian who fits just about every category of "ignorant country oaf"]], just to show off how noble and capable he is (incidentally, Rasaad is [[MagikarpPower not very capable at this point in the game]], so beating a civilian who can't fight back really ain't a wonder).
** Ditto for Neera, who is pursued by a Red Wizard who [[MemeticMolester gives off rapist vibes to such a an absurd degree]] that he might as well have a little badge with the words 'sexual predator' on it.
** Dorn's BigDamnHeroes introduction scene [[DynamicEntry not only showcases his general awesomeness]], but has some lovely narm-y vibes as well, down to Senjak's FantasticRacism about Dorn's orcish heritage and Dorotea's pretty feeble attempts to convince Dorn she still cares about him and was {{just following orders}}, which Dorn shoots down as "a coward's excuse". As a result we feel pretty much zero sympathy for them when they die, as if them trying to ambush and raid the party wasn't good enough.
** The (presumably) Bhaalspawn Paladin that Sarevok kills in the opening cinematic. It's his voice and those ridiculously long horns on his helmet, making you wonder why it didn't get stuck in the door opening.

to:

* {{Narm}}: {{Narm}}:
**
The way the new [=NPCs=] are introduced in the Enhanced Edition in the first game,
** *** Rasaad is being taunted by [[StrawLoser a hilariously unfriendly random civilian who fits just about every category of "ignorant country oaf"]], just to show off how noble and capable he is (incidentally, Rasaad is [[MagikarpPower not very capable at this point in the game]], so beating a civilian who can't fight back really ain't a wonder).
** *** Ditto for Neera, who is pursued by a Red Wizard who [[MemeticMolester gives off rapist vibes to such a an absurd degree]] that he might as well have a little badge with the words 'sexual predator' on it.
** *** Dorn's BigDamnHeroes introduction scene [[DynamicEntry not only showcases his general awesomeness]], but has some lovely narm-y vibes as well, down to Senjak's FantasticRacism about Dorn's orcish heritage and Dorotea's pretty feeble attempts to convince Dorn she still cares about him and was {{just following orders}}, which Dorn shoots down as "a coward's excuse". As a result we feel pretty much zero sympathy for them when they die, as if them trying to ambush and raid the party wasn't good enough.
** The (presumably) Bhaalspawn Paladin that Sarevok kills in the original opening cinematic.cinematic in the first game. It's his voice and those ridiculously long horns on his helmet, making you wonder why it didn't get stuck in the door opening.
2nd Oct '16 2:08:35 AM Hawaii_Knut
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Added DiffLines:

** The (presumably) Bhaalspawn Paladin that Sarevok kills in the opening cinematic. It's his voice and those ridiculously long horns on his helmet, making you wonder why it didn't get stuck in the door opening.
1st Oct '16 4:37:00 PM Hawaii_Knut
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** Aside frome the main villains, another one is [[spoiler: Solaufein]]. A rogue drow who have kept his true allegiance a secret for many years. Not only that, but he also give an epic f-you to [[spoiler: Phaere]] near the end of the quest line which is truly something to behold.

to:

** Aside frome the main villains, another one is Solaufein. At first he looks like your typical drow. Evil and a massive {{Jerkass}}, but with PragmaticVillainy as he prefers to use his time and energy on his actual enemies rather than picking on easy targets. [[spoiler: Solaufein]]. A rogue drow who have kept his true allegiance a secret for many years. Not only that, but he also give This is all an epic f-you to [[spoiler: Phaere]] near act. [[JerkassFacade Beneath the end fascade]] is a well disguised [[MySpeciesDothProtestTooMuch Eilistraeen drow]] with years of experience who, if you follow through the quest line which Underdark Arc long enough by not killing him as Phaere ordered, will pull a LaserGuidedKarma on her that is truly [[SugarWiki/AwesomeMoment something to behold. behold]].]]
22nd Aug '16 2:24:58 AM supergod
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.BaldursGate